79 replies to this topic

[Chaplain of death]

Fox obviously aired it as well. That was my only point. You seemed like you were trying blame the left side media specifically, was just pointing out that at the bare minimum it was both sides.

The point remains. Trump has said he'll issue illegal orders and when questioned on what hed do if they were refused he said "they won't be refused, im a great leader people do what i tell them to" (paraphrasing). He has also said he would purge the military leaders because they a are doing such a shit job.

America doesn't have the free reign to do whatever it wants that you think it does. Even if we were allowed to do the heinous things he's campaigned by the International community, there will be rioting like never before. The country would tear itself apart. Then would come the moment of truth of if the military of our country would be willing to break every oath they swore and gun down their fellow countrymen.

[Chaplain of death]

Cell phone double posted.

[Lysistrata]

CoD!! You are a pure blood and radical Alinsky soldier!

Fox obviously aired it as well. That was my only point. You seemed like you were trying blame the left side media specifically, was just pointing out that at the bare minimum it was both sides.

 

You hate Fox News... I get it. If you took the time to watch Fox News you would know what you're talking about. Fox News is the fastest and most reliable way to get "all the news". Fox News is the only channel where Conservatives get a fair shake. I guess that's why you hate it, but they are all too happy to air every controversial thing Trump says just like those channels you watch... except we hear it first, because Fox actually covers the Trump campaign just as much as the Clinton campaign. As far as the Fox anchors and hosts... they are about 2 to 1 against Donald Trump. I think that would make you happy. Most of the support Trump is receiving comes from all of us that are finished with the media picking our Presidents for us.

The point remains. Trump has said he'll issue illegal orders and when questioned on what hed do if they were refused he said "they won't be refused, im a great leader people do what i tell them to" (paraphrasing). He has also said he would purge the military leaders because they a are doing such a shit job.

 

The "illegal orders" you're talking about is enhanced interrogation, also known as "waterboarding". G.W. Bush granted it's use in 2002, and discontinued it's use in 2006. it's only "illegal" if the President says it is. It's Illegal now because Barack Obama says it is. If Donald Trump is elected, he can grant it's use once again. I'm one that supports any means deemed necessary to protect American lives, and I don't need to know how they do it. If you're talking about Trump saying "go after the families of terrorists"... he never said kill. You guys did. I am 100% in favor of holding any family, community, city, or nation, responsible for terrorist attacks on our people when they could have done something to prevent it.

America doesn't have the free reign to do whatever it wants that you think it does. Even if we were allowed to do the heinous things he's campaigned by the International community, there will be rioting like never before. The country would tear itself apart. Then would come the moment of truth of if the military of our country would be willing to break every oath they swore and gun down their fellow countrymen.

 

Aren't you the little warrior. You mean, gun down their own family, if it comes to that. This map can tell you where the US Military comes from, and what they believe in. Think twice before you play that card, because they are on our side. I'm ready for that scenario... are you?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/military-enlistment-rates-by-state-and-region/enlisted-personnel-by-region/

[Chaplain of death]

 

CoD!! You are a pure blood and radical Alinsky soldier!

Fox obviously aired it as well. That was my only point. You seemed like you were trying blame the left side media specifically, was just pointing out that at the bare minimum it was both sides.

 

You hate Fox News... I get it. If you took the time to watch Fox News you would know what you're talking about. Fox News is the fastest and most reliable way to get "all the news". Fox News is the only channel where Conservatives get a fair shake. I guess that's why you hate it, but they are all too happy to air every controversial thing Trump says just like those channels you watch... except we hear it first, because Fox actually covers the Trump campaign just as much as the Clinton campaign. As far as the Fox anchors and hosts... they are about 2 to 1 against Donald Trump. I think that would make you happy. Most of the support Trump is receiving comes from all of us that are finished with the media picking our Presidents for us.

The point remains. Trump has said he'll issue illegal orders and when questioned on what hed do if they were refused he said "they won't be refused, im a great leader people do what i tell them to" (paraphrasing). He has also said he would purge the military leaders because they a are doing such a shit job.

 

The "illegal orders" you're talking about is enhanced interrogation, also known as "waterboarding". G.W. Bush granted it's use in 2002, and discontinued it's use in 2006. it's only "illegal" if the President says it is. It's Illegal now because Barack Obama says it is. If Donald Trump is elected, he can grant it's use once again. I'm one that supports any means deemed necessary to protect American lives, and I don't need to know how they do it. If you're talking about Trump saying "go after the families of terrorists"... he never said kill. You guys did. I am 100% in favor of holding any family, community, city, or nation, responsible for terrorist attacks on our people when they could have done something to prevent it.

America doesn't have the free reign to do whatever it wants that you think it does. Even if we were allowed to do the heinous things he's campaigned by the International community, there will be rioting like never before. The country would tear itself apart. Then would come the moment of truth of if the military of our country would be willing to break every oath they swore and gun down their fellow countrymen.

 

Aren't you the little warrior. You mean, gun down their own family, if it comes to that. This map can tell you where the US Military comes from, and what they believe in. Think twice before you play that card, because they are on our side. I'm ready for that scenario... are you?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/military-enlistment-rates-by-state-and-region/enlisted-personnel-by-region/

 

 

Oh look our favorite stereotypical ultra conservative who likes to take everything out of context and slight the conversation off topic to his little hearts desire has come back to talk some more.

 

Okay so heres an explanation of fox news. 

She says its because they are organizing protests but in my opinion its because they are legit a part of the party not just a news organization that is slanted towards that party and shows news that is biased towards it because of the views of the anchors and producers. Thank you for making assumptions about me (and by thank you I mean kindly take your foot out of mouth now), I don't actually get my news from any of the networks anchors because they are all full of shit. I generally find my news online as its written by journalists that aren't so firmly tied to those networks. 

 

The Illegal orders I'm talking about is the "carpet bombing" of the middle east. The killing of the families of terrorists, which we can't specify, which means killing families for being in"the wrong area".  Yup, "take out their families" definitely means detain...... oh wait.....  Not to mention how he glosses right past the collateral damage question and says that. Which to me implies that hes totally fine with collateral damage and believes that we just need to bomb it all, not what he said but thats what I take from it. 

 

No I said their fellow countrymen. Not their family. (please read before responding and putting words in my mouth when what I said is on the page.) I don't think any soldier is brainwashed enough to gun down their own family. I do worry that as things escalate and the government calls in the military to break the riots up that violence will result. If it does then the United States of America will cease to exist as it was intended to be. Trump will declare martial law, because he'll have to in order to take control of the situation. The situation won't calm down though. You'll see people die in the thousands in the streets. If you really want to see that then you are deluded. 

 

 

Trump getting elected very well might lead to none of that though. Its probably more likely that he fails to deliver on a single one of his promises and becomes just another self serving asshole just like you are all terrified Hillary will be.

 

 

One last time I'd like to point out that I'm not trying to say that there aren't valid reasons to vote for trump. I'm sure that many of you have far different values than mine and that he aligns with them far more. That's just fine. I only seek to set the record straight that he is nothing close to what he has been toted to be. Is he going to destroy the world? unlikely, but possible. Is he going to achieve any success in "making America great again"? Not a chance in hell.

 

My point is that to SUPPORT any of the candidates in the current election is insane. None of them are anywhere near viable choices for President, but they are the choices we have, and therefore we must sift through the horrible bullshit that is who they are and what we can expect from them. 

and since this has now taken the inevitable course of resorting to name calling, I will bid you all adieu. Thank you for the thoughtful discussion that took place up until today. It was nice to have a political discussion without it resorting to hostility, at least for a time. Good night all.

[Lysistrata]

Oh look our favorite stereotypical ultra conservative who likes to take everything out of context and slight the conversation off topic to his little hearts desire has come back to talk some more.

I'm not an "ultra-conservative". I'm agnostic, I don't go to church, so don't lump me in with them. I don't have a problem with abortion as long as those responsible for it... pay for it. I actually like the Trump plan for six weeks maternity leave and child care tax credits for working families. We raised 4 children and both of us worked, and it's not easy. No "ultra-conservative" would support a Federal program like that. I quit posting here because tempers were starting to go off the rails... including mine. I was about to start typing vicious things and I'm way too good at it. So I stepped back out of respect for the forum. I have received many private requests for me to speak here, so I am giving it the good old IRON try.

 

Really? Rachel Maddow? and Keith Olbermann? That's the best you can do?... and from 2009? That would be like me posting clips of Alex Jones and pointing a crooked finger saying "See?... DO YOU SEE?"... I would never embarrass myself like that.

 

On September 12, 2009... about a million American citizens rallied in Washington DC in an effort to stop Obamacare. I know because my wife and I were there. That was news... and we failed. Everything we told you that was bad about Obamacare, has happened. You chose to not believe us... and here we are.

 

During the Republican primaries we had 17 candidates, all trying to convince Republican voters to support them. During this time they were all trying to "out-right-wing" the others. One in particular, was Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz began saying at every event, and every time he was on camera, that he would "carpet bomb" ISIS. Carpet bombing has not been done since the Vietnam war. It's really expensive, not very effective, and we have much smarter weapons now. So Ted was just trying to say a cool phrase that would out right-wing Trump. Remember Hillary Clinton has been in favor of that "gold standard" TTP for years... up until the point she had to try to out left-wing Bernie Sanders, and then suddenly she's against it. Really it's best to leave the crazy days of the primaries behind us... everybody knows you guys don't want to talk about Debbie, the DNC, and the Hillary scandals. The only "carpet bombing" that will occur is coming from Julian Assange, and Wikileaks.

 

The only thing I'm afraid of from Hillary Clinton as President is her Supreme Court appointments. She would get those, and hell will follow. Other than that she will hide for 4 years and pay off every criminal debt she owes with taxpayer blood. She will accomplish nothing, and it will be 4 years just like the last 4. The Republican controlled Congress will sit there, and give her their finger... nobody trusts her. She will be a total failure and overwhelmingly voted out of office, if she makes it through her one term without impeachment.

 

If Donald Trump is elected, he will have an awful lot to prove. The bar will be set really high for him, but he actually has a chance to do something. He doesn't understand the concept of failure, and that quality would make a very good President. The choice is ours... just remember the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark and choose wisely.

[onbekende]

What we have is 50% of the driven voting populace outright hating 50% of the other driven voting populace (and visa versa).

 

What the other +80% of "normal" populace has to do is just duck and hope neither doom scenario is coming to fruitition.

[Lysistrata]

What we have is 50% of the driven voting populace outright hating 50% of the other driven voting populace (and visa versa).

 

What the other +80% of "normal" populace has to do is just duck and hope neither doom scenario is coming to fruitition.

I never thought the day would come when I agree with you. It's like hitting the lottery

[onbekende]

now just make those 50/50 into like +5 groups and you will start enjoying politics again

 

Coalitions are hilarious >_>

 

 

 

EDIT: Addition, MWHAUAHHAHAHAHA.

[ccabal86]

What we have is 50% of the driven voting populace outright hating 50% of the other driven voting populace (and visa versa).
 
What the other +80% of "normal" populace has to do is just duck and hope neither doom scenario is coming to fruitition.

I never thought the day would come when I agree with you. It's like hitting the lottery

Actually, betsy seems to have tempered some of his opinions in the last few months, I must say I am very pleasantly surprised

[onbekende]

 

 

What we have is 50% of the driven voting populace outright hating 50% of the other driven voting populace (and visa versa).
 
What the other +80% of "normal" populace has to do is just duck and hope neither doom scenario is coming to fruitition.
 

I never thought the day would come when I agree with you. It's like hitting the lottery

Actually, betsy seems to have tempered some of his opinions in the last few months, I must say I am very pleasantly surprised

 

huh, in what way? Perhaps my vocality just dropped, or the apathy has once again overtaken me >_>

[Lysistrata]

If you guys want to know about how things are going right now... this is the best explanation and analysis available. This is from Nate Silver. Nate Silver became famous with using mathematics and statistics to call baseball games. When the primaries for the 2008 election began, he decided to turn his talent for crunching numbers to politics. He nailed 2008... and in 2012 he was one of only two people I pay attention to that said Barack Obama would be re-elected. He was right... Larry Sabato was the other one.

 

According to Nate, Hillary Clinton has a razor thin advantage, currently. I stress currently because in the past couple weeks, everything has been trending in Trump's direction. Clinton had a blast of a convention... she had everyone's help, and I knew when she was all alone again, she would lose it. The problem Trump has right now is... to win this, he now has to crack the blue wall. The blue wall is that power block of states that have voted solid Democrat since at least 2008. One more state, but it's a high hurdle, even for a billionaire. Everything rides on the first debate this Monday night.

 

The debate Monday night will be the most watched debate in the history of the world... even when it's during Monday Night Football. If Hillary coughs... she loses. If Trump calls her names... he loses. If either of them even dodge the wrong question... they lose. If somehow Trump can masterfully turn the nation against Lester Holt, the NBC moderator, like he did the FOX moderator Megyn Kelly, he wins. This is the Super Bowl gang.

 

Nate Silver is as much a lefty as Rocky Balboa, but he's the most deadly honest lefty I have ever known. Take his word to the bank. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clintons-leading-in-exactly-the-states-she-needs-to-win/

[Shahenshah]

Did they make a movie on Nate Silver guy...Think Brad Pitt was in it?

@tW: There would obviously be cases like those and there were many especially at the start, people were hoping for something better than Saddam...until something much worst spawned there with so much violence in between. We've had three experiments of replacing dictators..Iraq, direct involvement on the ground, failed, Libya, involvement through major airstrikes on regime, minimal boots on ground, failed too. Now, the experiment is ongoing in Syria. At end of the day, hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dead. Thise who can't do much hope they live through the next day, eating grass. Those who can escape the conflict are now refugees, and some have joined xyz militias, taking home a paycheck from xyz intelligence agency sponsoring the militia and then there are some who have been radicalised against this backdrop. The human tragedy in these three countries is absolutely unimaginable for majority of the world populations. I believe the closest demographics would be those who lost home and family in world war 2, Vietnam war and so on.
__


I think Hillary has tanked it, she's always trended DOWNWARDS against her opponents.. Obama, Sanders and same is happening vs Trump. Im hoping to not miss the debate but I have a flight. Would love to see it live. I don't think she's a great or naturally good public speaker like Obama. He would have totally run circles around Trump.

[Lysistrata]

Did they make a movie on Nate Silver guy...Think Brad Pitt was in it?

No... Moneyball was about the 2002 Oakland Athletics. The manager Billy Beane assembled a winning team with undervalued players using their stats, to maximize their talent. Nate Silver could tell you which team would win a game, or series. That's very valuable information if you gamble.

[onbekende]

Look what funzies I found:

 

https://twitter.com/DVNJr/status/778919762487341056

[Lysistrata]

Look what funzies I found:

 

https://twitter.com/DVNJr/status/778919762487341056

That's a "funzie"? This is a "funzie"...

[Rhizoctonia]

 

Look what funzies I found:

 

https://twitter.com/DVNJr/status/778919762487341056

That's a "funzie"? This is a "funzie"...

 

 

OMG...someone trying to be funny!  Let's not actually report or show the long in depth conversation the two had that she even said they had and decide only to show a gaff.  Common media, and Johnson was stupid to do something knowing how the media works, especially when he's taking votes from the other two.  Not his brightest moment, but hey, still 100% better then Trump or Clinton so I can live with it.  

[onbekende]

Would have been better if he first explained the "I could do this ..." instead of doing it directly imo

 

Also, he has a small tongue, clearly not fit for USA President >_>

[Lysistrata]

OMG...someone trying to be funny!  Let's not actually report or show the long in depth conversation the two had that she even said they had and decide only to show a gaff.  Common media, and Johnson was stupid to do something knowing how the media works, especially when he's taking votes from the other two.  Not his brightest moment, but hey, still 100% better then Trump or Clinton so I can live with it.  

Don't get me wrong Rhiz! I like Gary Johnson. He was a very successful Republican Governor for New Mexico... but he can't beat Hillary Clinton, and that is more important than anything else. He's an unabashed stoner that is greatly invested in the marijuana cash crop. I'm all for creating jobs and making money... but I don't want the President munching edibles in the Oval Office. He's done a couple interviews that leave you guessing if he's stoned, or he just knows he has no chance.

 

As a Libertarian, he should have been prepared for the gotcha questions. When he was asked about Aleppo, he should have known that they are just trying to catch him not knowing something... he's taking more votes from Hillary Clinton than Trump, so they want him out. They didn't ask him about what he would do about the Syrian refugee crisis... they asked him about Aleppo. If he didn't know what Aleppo was, he should have simply said "I'm the Libertarian candidate... why should we be concerned about Aleppo?". That would toss the ball back to the guy and force more information... but hindsight is 20-20.

 

Your vote for Johnson is a protest vote. I respect that, but in my opinion there is too much at stake. Time to get real. Donald Trump is the only candidate that can beat Hillary Clinton, break up the Washington DC mafia, and bring about change in favor of the USA. All these open border global citizens need to be made extinct. They are chipping away at our way of life. The Constitution, and our Supreme Court, depend on us.

[Rhizoctonia]

Oh, you wont find me disagreeing that he should expect and be prepared for media people to look to trip them up.  The Aleppo question was them looking to trip him up, and it worked.  His sticking out his tongue was his own doing, and he should know better then to do something like that, that a media outlet would look to highlight and take away from the actual rest of the interview that probably went smoothly (of course they don't show that).  He's a quirky kind of guy, not denying that, so anything a media outlet can do to highlight that and turn it into something negative, they're going to do.  As you said, he's taking more democratic votes away then Hillary, and the more either side really can mark him as unfit they're are going to.

I trust he isn't actually stoned, he said he's gave it up during his run for the Presidency, but there's no doubt he's a little "quirky."  Is it because he's stoned...I don't know for certain, I like to believe he's stayed true to his word, but not knowing the guy on a personal level, I can't know.

I'll be interested to see how the debate goes tonight.  Trump has been gaining in the polls lately.  He has the opportunity to gain on that, or a bad showing can turn those numbers in the other direction.  I am DVR'ing it, I need to get to bed early tonight, but I imagine my FB feed will be filled with people's opinions by tomorrow.  I just hope for the sake of everyone that issues get talked about.  

[DeathMerchant]

Well its November 7th, and as promised I am closing the poll.

 

The end results are:

 

Democrat Party: Hillary Rodham Clinton 9 votes [36.00%]

Republican Party: Donald John Trump 7 votes [28.00%]

Green Party: Jill Ellen Stein 4 votes [16.00%]

Libertarian Party: Gary Earl Johnson 4 votes [16.00%]

Constitution Party: Darrell Lane Castle 1 vote [4.00%]

 

It was interesting to see how many voted for 3rd party candidates. I honestly expected the results to be 40-40 Democrat and Republican, with only 10% going 3rd party. Another interesting thing is if you only count the 9 Democrat and 7 Republican votes, we end up with 56% Democrat and 44% Republican.

 

I am very much looking forward to seeing how this poll correlates to tomorrow's election. Thank you for participating everyone!