13 replies to this topic

[ccabal86]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38659068

 

So, I don't know. What do you US folks think about this? My thoughts:

 

• Your security protocols are lax as hell if people like Snowden and Manning can have access to such confidential information. Just imagine how deep a professional spy can get...
• I bet she didn't have her sentence commuted if she weren't trans

[Samus]

I think it's good, I don't think he/she intention was to harm the US, more as to call for change as the article describes

[DeathMerchant]

US Gov and Military employ a massive amount of Contractors. Some of which end of in the Intelligence Industry. Long story short is that it isn't too difficult to access/acquire material that is beyond your assigned job description. Which goes for not only contractors, but government employees + enlisted personnel also. I had a friend who was E4 in the Army, Infantry at the time, and he would see folders marked Top Secret (meaning to only be viewed if you were the holder of a Top Secret Security clearance), lying on desks out in the open for everyone walking by to see (or steal if one was so inclined). Part of the problem is lax security and bad habits when it comes to handling classified material. I like to hope this has improved over the years as leaks have become more prominent, but my gut tells me otherwise.

As for Manning, he will have served 7 out of his 35 year sentence. So its not exactly getting off without punishment. Come to think of it, most people who leak classified material don't spend more than a few years in prison.

Now I don't have many fears in life. But I do have a major concern as to what will occur in the next 2 days. Every end of the Presidency, it is tradition to grant commutation and pardons to prisoners and those who might be tried in Federal Court. I suspect to see a large amount of controversial prisoners pardoned, way more than prior exiting Presidents. President Obama has made it clear his Administration has failed to secure the Liberal Agenda on America, and he does admit that his actions to get progressive legislation passed through Congress failed due to strong opposition. Nevertheless, I suspect President Obama will attempt one last hurray on the final day of his Presidency, something that will give him closure and positive meaning to his 'legacy'. I respect the President's choice to use the power given to him, but many times I have seen our President overreach his bounds. While I do not believe in conspiracy theories of sudden martial law, and I do expect him to leave Office, I can't help but wonder what ideas are floating around in his head for one last mass Presidential Pardon

[Lysistrata]

3 more days of dishonesty, hypocrisy, and total insanity... we'll make it

[Fox Fire]

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38659068

 

So, I don't know. What do you US folks think about this? My thoughts:

 

• Your security protocols are lax as hell if people like Snowden and Manning can have access to such confidential information. Just imagine how deep a professional spy can get...
• I bet she didn't have her sentence commuted if she weren't trans

 

I think this comes down to Assange saying he'll turn himself in if he/she is released. 

I don't really have an opinion but I don't consider whistle blowers to be traitors. If our government is permitted to violate it's own rules then we've lost what America is all about.

[Lysistrata]

I think this comes down to Assange saying he'll turn himself in if he/she is released.  I don't really have an opinion but I don't consider whistle blowers to be traitors. If our government is permitted to violate it's own rules then we've lost what America is all about.

I totally agree with you Foxy... if Edward Snowden had gone to Rand Paul for protection, and told his story on the floor of the Senate, I believe he would not be living in Russia, and not one Senator would have had the guts to not support him. By running to Russia, they were able to paint him as a traitor. I guess he was afraid of big government and incarceration. Missed opportunity.

[Lorikz Kain]

Just having a secret or top secret security clearance doesn't mean you have access to all things with that label, there is still separation of duties that severely limits access based off of needs of your position. It's not like there is some magic file that everyone with a security clearance can put their hands into.

 

 

 

My problem is there were more than a few options available to him and yet he decided to ignore all of those and do things in the most damaging way possible helping no one in the process.

 

There is a very concerning pattern of not holding people accountable for this type of offense.

 

First Hilary dicks everything over and gets away with it and now everyone can as well? I guess that's one way to hold everyone to the same standard, just lower the shit out of it. I mean did things get so fucked up that the precedence is now forgive and forget for these kinds of crime? What is to stop anyone from leaking whatever the hell they want if there is no accountability? 

[Fox Fire]

Just having a secret or top secret security clearance doesn't mean you have access to all things with that label, there is still separation of duties that severely limits access based off of needs of your position. It's not like there is some magic file that everyone with a security clearance can put their hands into.

 

 

 

My problem is there were more than a few options available to him and yet he decided to ignore all of those and do things in the most damaging way possible helping no one in the process.

 

There is a very concerning pattern of not holding people accountable for this type of offense.

 

First Hilary dicks everything over and gets away with it and now everyone can as well? I guess that's one way to hold everyone to the same standard, just lower the shit out of it. I mean did things get so fucked up that the precedence is now forgive and forget for these kinds of crime? What is to stop anyone from leaking whatever the hell they want if there is no accountability? 

Hillary wasn't a whistle blower working against government actions. She was in the government doing government actions. Fuck her.

Though that probably came out wrong, you know what I mean. 

[Lorikz Kain]

The point was they were both leaks of confidential, classified information which they knowingly and intentionally mishandled. They are the same crime and should have been equally dealt with.

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't blow the whistle when its needed, I'm saying there is a proper way of doing things without potentially harming people that aren't a part of the "problem" you are trying to fix.

 

As someone from the military with a security clearance I know full well how damaging leaks can be. You'd be surprised the type of information, even seemingly insignificant information, people can use to harm you, both directly and indirectly.

[SeaBeeGipson]

All I care about at this point is no clemency or pardon is given to Private Bergdahl. Deserves to rot for the rest of his life.

Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden aren't too much of a concern to me. They whistle blew, they might not have much spinning in their head (Edward wants a pardon but never officially requested one? No handouts dude.) I just want Bergdahl charged.

[Fox Fire]

The point was they were both leaks of confidential, classified information which they knowingly and intentionally mishandled. They are the same crime and should have been equally dealt with.

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't blow the whistle when its needed, I'm saying there is a proper way of doing things without potentially harming people that aren't a part of the "problem" you are trying to fix.

 

As someone from the military with a security clearance I know full well how damaging leaks can be. You'd be surprised the type of information, even seemingly insignificant information, people can use to harm you, both directly and indirectly.

And while Manning gets years in jail Hillary get's literally nothing. 

Further more, Hillary never "intentionally" leaked anything. She was simply careless and stupid. Manning leaked something very intentionally because he knew it was the American peoples constitutional right to know about it. 

Does anyone here honestly believe that if people like Manning or Snowden leaked this to congress they would be handled in some other manner? I find that incredibly hard to believe considering it would make absolutely zero difference either way and it's these same congressmen who pursue them now. 

They would still be attacked, pursued and silenced for sharing what is indeed, classified information. I see no reason their treatment would have been different otherwise. Our government has gone after whistle blowers like this for it's entire existence no matter the form they present themselves. 

In all and actual reality and practicality, how the information is presented means absolutely nothing. The information itself is what means something. 

As someone with many family members being in the military, I understand the tight lipped information ordeal. But when it comes to our constitutional rights, things that not even the government should never be allowed to violate, it's a whole different story. When our government is intentionally violating that, they will and clearly have, gone to any lengths to silence people. 

That's bullshit. That is absolutely not what the United States of America, has ever been, or ever will be about. 

[DeathMerchant]

Just having a secret or top secret security clearance doesn't mean you have access to all things with that label, there is still separation of duties that severely limits access based off of needs of your position. It's not like there is some magic file that everyone with a security clearance can put their hands into.

 

That is absolutely true. I was mostly giving a bare bones explanation to security clearances.
 

If you don't mind sharing, what security clearance do you hold and what is your MOS?

[Lysistrata]

American peoples constitutional right to know about it. 

I don't think there is such a thing as a Constitutional right to know about anything... but there is a Constitutional mandate to follow the laws passed by Congress. Bradley Manning took the information that he knew, gave it to people that did not have the best interest of the United States, and he knew that the information could cause grave damage. That's a crime. If he took it to the people charged with creating those laws... then he's a whistle blower. Same with Ed Snowden. When you steal the information, and just release it... then you make the whole thing about the crime you committed instead of what the information says.

 

Ed Snowden had the opportunity to right a terrible wrong, but he chose a path that made him a criminal. Bradley Manning is a mentally deranged nutcase that should have never been allowed to wear a uniform, and they let him get his hands on classified information. The people in charge have to take some responsibility for being careless with who they are hiring. I understand the need for secrets, and you're best chance to keep secrets is for the least amount of people knowing about them.

 

Do any of them deserve to be let off? ... I don't think so.

[Lorikz Kain]

 

Just having a secret or top secret security clearance doesn't mean you have access to all things with that label, there is still separation of duties that severely limits access based off of needs of your position. It's not like there is some magic file that everyone with a security clearance can put their hands into.

 

That is absolutely true. I was mostly giving a bare bones explanation to security clearances.
 

If you don't mind sharing, what security clearance do you hold and what is your MOS?

 

 

 

25B

 

For those that might be interested:

There are two factors that determine the need of a security clearance in the military, MOS and Assigned Position. MOSs in which you will need to handle classified information or media in which information is transmitted on will require a security clearance even if you don't necessarily directly handle classified information. Certain assigned positions may require a security clearance based on the needs of the position. A secret security clearance is pretty easy to find throughout the DoD but Top Secret ones are harder to come by as they are more determined by position than MOS.

 

You can find all this information and better explanations online if any of you are really interested in security clearance information and what comes along with it.

 

 

 

On a separate note, most don't realize how active the military is in investigating and prosecuting crimes done by military personnel. Just because its not headline news for the world doesn't mean people aren't being held accountable for their actions, someone is always watching and 9 times out of 10 you will be caught for your actions.

 

I'm not saying shit doesn't happen, especially during conflict but that's a two way street and not every incident is avoidable despite what people believe. Military personnel already takes on many additional risks by following the LOAC despite our enemies not giving a shit about it... I feel like I'm starting to derail from the original topic now so I'll end my thoughts here, too easy to jump to new topics