23 replies to this topic

[Icewolf]

Firstly, call it with the insults. If you want a serious discussion, lets have one. But if you are going to assume I am an idiot you are going to have a bad time. 

 

Secondly, please look at this paper

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC478945/pdf/brjprevsmed00022-0018.pdf

 

When coal gas was switched away from in the UK, making it much harder to gas oneself to death, the rate of suicide dropped substantially. People stopped being able to use that method and it was not replaced. 

 

This is consistent with what is commonly observed-people have suicidal urges that last for about 15 minutes to half an hour. Outside of that time period they will not try to kill themselves. If you can insert a barrier into that time period then generally that will prevent the suicide. Make suicide take longer and rates drop-that is what that paper shows and that is what people experience. 

 

This is also from my personal first hand experience. It is from my time working for a mental health helpline, and from being the physical barrier to suicides by physically ripping knives from peoples hands and restraining them.

[OldSelf]

The post made an argument that could hardly be addressed, let me paraphrase it into a form that makes it clearer: "The vast majority of suicide occurs because the method is convenient". When you elucidated it as being in conjunction with an urge as the cause in your recent post this makes more sense. If my position of a weltanshauung as the cause wasn't flippantly not addressed there would have been a kinder reply

 

I'm not adverse to saying that an urge can motivate an action, but they do not arise from nothing- There is a level of premeditation for cognitive acceptance, whether or not it goes as far as meticulous planning.

 

I considered to reply to the rest, but prefer to focus the crux.

[Icewolf]

People thinking beforehand "maybe I should kill myself" does not mean that when it comes down to it, it is a rational act. 

[OldSelf]

Then why is it not a rational act? and what mistakes are made in coming to the false conclusion?