Criswell Predicts

 

 

Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives.

 

And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.

 

You are interested in the unknown, the mysterious, the unexplainable.

 

That is why you are here. And now, for the first time, we are bringing to you the full story of what happened on that fateful day.

 

We are giving you all the evidence, based only on the secret testimonies of the miserable souls who survived this terrifying ordeal.

 

The incidents, the places, my friend we cannot keep this a secret any longer. Let us punish the guilty, let us reward the innocent.

 

My friend, can your heart stand the shocking facts about

 

... 

 

GRAVE ROBBERS FROM OUTER SPACE

For what its worth. 

 

I'm Inspector Daniel Clay. 

Less time tonight than I'd like to go into too much detail; you'll likely be spared another novel QUITE as long, but let's wade into it.

 

It's interesting to note the reactions that have happened since I joined; a lot of votes moving around.

1. Ovidsidios votes for iSocialism and asks killgor to join him as a 'leap of faith' - this would create a 4-person wagon as of that time

2. Lyner unvotes from Big Ego (was the only vote), saying Ovid will die soon

3. iSocialism votes for Ovid, bringing wagon to 5 to defend himself.

4. Big Ego votes for Spaztik Muffin. This one seemed out of nowhere, especially given that his immediately prior post had been him saying he was sick of changing his vote.

 

Ovid and iSoc's moves are understandable from a keep-yourself-alive perspective; not a scum tell, as both scum and town would/should act the same in that situation. Lyner seems to support lynching Ovid without actually throwing his vote. Big Ego's move seems strange; I am not sure how to fully read it.

 

I also haven't seen EM post yet I think; I'd like to hear from him, and more from Robert.

 

There were also some corrections from my huge novel; given how long I took to write that thing, I understand that.

1. iSocialism corrected that his vote for killgor was due to killgor's apparent tendency to jump on bandwagons? Useful information, since I hadn't really reviewed Day 1.

2. TBRaiders notes his vote for iSocialism was actually a reference to Robert's half-claim as well, and before EM fully brought it up again. That was a little subtle, but I see it upon reading what TBRaiders quoted. If I read this correctly, TBRaiders voted for iSoc because iSoc voted for EM, after robert's half-claim saying he visited EM? @TBRaiders, do I have this interpretation correct? I currently do not consider Robert's claim to provide townie or scum points to EM, until we know more about what Robert did.

 

I'd like to respond specifically to something Killgor posted about events since my return:

for some reason i don't like where this is going. ever since preston showed up everybody seems eager to follow his lead.

Without trying to taint your very justifiable skepticism - as sortof a 'newbie' I think I am being given a fair chance to offer a new perspective... which I very much appreciate given how much R2V went off the deep end. That's one reason I started my huge post with an analysis of what happened with him; I wanted to know what led him to quit the game, and whose shoes I was filling. The original votes for R2V with his bandwagoning and OMGUS vote on robert - behavioral and thin justifications to begin with - were compounded by his overreacting and generally acting like a jerk. This made him a lightning rod that everyone flocked to. I am not sure how much weight to throw onto the five votes that ultimately formed the R2V wagon; were any scum trying to finish him off, or were they content to let the townies do it themselves? It's difficult to say.

 

Finally, the more significant event of sorts: Kevin's name-claim. However if true he provides a somewhat relevant piece of information: That the 'Patrolman' prefix Rafay's role had does not necessarily denote a cop. In general trying to second-guess the mod's use of flavor and map it to underlying roles is not reliable, so Kevin's statement makes sense. While kevin could be lying about his name, I am not sure what the scum would gain by casting doubt on our having lost our cop though... so I am inclined to believe the nameat least; there is no way to verify it short of Kevin's death.

 

So with that said, here are my ongoing thoughts at this point:

 

There are 5 votes on Ovidsidios, and only iSocialism has more than one vote at this time. Barring a major shift, this will be the day's lynch. I agree with Kevin that we are thin on actual information; and picking Ovid from the three wagons at the time of my novel post was not simple. I want to stress that everything people are going on today is *behavioral* - guessing based on people's actions that you think are scummy. This is HIGHLY prone to interpretation by different individuals. The only non-behavioral information we have is who died, their flavor names, peoples' votes, and the half-claim by robert/name claim by Kevin.

 

While I was writing it appears that Robert has decided to post his name as well; an Inspector, so yet more implication that titles in flavor names may not imply roles - yet Robert claims to have a role and visited EM. He earlier said that he had no evidence; but his roleclaim was in reaction to EM voting for him.

 

Given that if Robert dies we will not know what he DID to EM at night, I ask Robert to finish his partial roleclaim; you've already got the target on you, so at this point holding back anything is not going to help; remember that this isnt a normal game, and you cannot count on your death (if you die tonight) to reveal what your visit type on EM did or didn't find.

 

I would prefer Robert to answer this directly. But absent that, here is some speculation:

Robert said he found 'no evidence'. Therefore his role could, under certain circumstances, return SOME kind of evidence? This does not mean a cop; no result on a cop would mean his investigation was somehow blocked. Watcher or tracker could reasonably get a null result though.

 

What strikes me as I write this though; given that Robert got no result - i.e. he had nothing to share by claiming - why did he throw out even this half claim in response to EM voting against him? It felt defensive when I originally read it, but also wastefully defensive; outing himself as a power role with nothing to really show for it. So this could also be him baiting the scum, or a scum baiting town defensive roles. I'd like some more discussion on this from the town, and preferably just straight clarification from Robert himself.

 

At this point though I'm rambling. Hitting reply now.

 

-Preston

Robert what did you mean by visit

 

 

How new is Spaztik Muffin? I don't think he's made a single helpful or informative post, if he's new to Mafia too he'd fit the 'new guy did it' profile. Although even if he isn't new, that is almost as bad, b/c then why is he so quiet as if he is unsure how to help/what to do?

What's really annoying is he has said so little, I'm not sure lynching him would give us much information, especially since we don't get to see their specific role when they die. Yet, how foolish is the town if we let him continue on this way the whole game just ignoring it?
He really should be near the top of everyone's list.

Unvote
Vote Spaztik

Maybe we should just cut the dead weight first? See what we can't gain from that. Being dead weight is probably a scum tell, isn't it?

this is my first mafia game and im still confused how you guys are getting walls of text from whats happened to so far

it looks like people are just making up reasons to vote for someone and hope others jump on board.

 

im waiting for next lynch/night events to see what happens there

 

"This the first time ive seen a themed mafia game... quite interesting

There is usually a sk so i dont think there would be 2 factions

If someone has a taste for abducting new people j hope im not next" ~ Spaztik on Page 11 (early in Day 2)

^ I was looking back at early day 2 to review where Robert first made his claim and I saw this...

"there is usually a sk so i dont think there would be 2 factions"

Spoken like a pro, Spaztik, but I thought this was your first game?

Robert what did you mean by visit

 

 

How new is Spaztik Muffin? I don't think he's made a single helpful or informative post, if he's new to Mafia too he'd fit the 'new guy did it' profile. Although even if he isn't new, that is almost as bad, b/c then why is he so quiet as if he is unsure how to help/what to do?

 

What's really annoying is he has said so little, I'm not sure lynching him would give us much information, especially since we don't get to see their specific role when they die. Yet, how foolish is the town if we let him continue on this way the whole game just ignoring it?

He really should be near the top of everyone's list.

 

Unvote

Vote Spaztik

 

Maybe we should just cut the dead weight first? See what we can't gain from that. Being dead weight is probably a scum tell, isn't it?

this is my first mafia game and im still confused how you guys are getting walls of text from whats happened to so far

it looks like people are just making up reasons to vote for someone and hope others jump on board.

 

im waiting for next lynch/night events to see what happens there

 

"This the first time ive seen a themed mafia game... quite interesting

 

There is usually a sk so i dont think there would be 2 factions

 

 

If someone has a taste for abducting new people j hope im not next" ~ Spaztik on Page 11 (early in Day 2)

 

^ I was looking back at early day 2 to review where Robert first made his claim and I saw this...

 

"there is usually a sk so i dont think there would be 2 factions"

 

Spoken like a pro, Spaztik, but I thought this was your first game?

 

There is a fairly obvious defense for this...

Oh it's just his first themed mafia game, right? Still, shocked me a bit b/c I read just before that the said this was his first mafia game. I mean, I didn't ask if it was the first themed mafia game he'd played.

Oh it's just his first themed mafia game, right? Still, shocked me a bit b/c I read just before that the said this was his first mafia game. I mean, I didn't ask if it was the first themed mafia game he'd played.

 

Yet how ironic that the truth in his words (at least not the first sentence of each) given our current situation. I have not lost my vision, though you bear our sigil and colors. In this game, I know sir, you are scum. Your scent has changed, and perhaps this may be cheating, but sir...you do not smell of an honest man

Just off the cuff,

 

How new is Spaztik Muffin? I don't think he's made a single helpful or informative post, if he's new to Mafia too he'd fit the 'new guy did it' profile. Although even if he isn't new, that is almost as bad, b/c then why is he so quiet as if he is unsure how to help/what to do?

What's really annoying is he has said so little, I'm not sure lynching him would give us much information, especially since we don't get to see their specific role when they die. Yet, how foolish is the town if we let him continue on this way the whole game just ignoring it?
He really should be near the top of everyone's list.

Unvote
Vote Spaztik

Maybe we should just cut the dead weight first? See what we can't gain from that. Being dead weight is probably a scum tell, isn't it?

 

 

Oh I forgot Ovid voted for iSocialism too. hmm.. oh well, Spaztik, as he put it when he voted on TBR 'needs a little love' anyway.

Killgor and Lyner needs to make votes

 

I recall, Imran, a post you wrote (#244 I believe) decrying this sort of behavior. Throughout this thread, few particular people acted this way with wild abandon. Where was your observant gaze then? In an entirely hopeful scenario, there is a potential swing. The end of this day is fast approaching, but I plan to make a case. Not for myself, that part of me is doomed. I would not be so bold to call myself a martyr. But if you strike me down...

 

I would prefer to keep Ovidsidios around just for the entertainment value. Nobody is appearing exceptionally scummy to me yet we need to take our chances and lynch somebody. 

 

As we approach Night 2, please consider that any one of us may die and that we should share information that would be beneficial to the town so it doesn't get lost.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have much to share. 

 

I will claim that my name is Patrolman Jamie and I am not a cop so when Rafay was revealed as Patrolman Larry it doesn't necessarily mean that our cop was killed.  So if I get killed and you see another patrolman named, you will not have lost a second cop.

 

What is in a name, if an honest one at that? I have seen this light and know it to be human.

 

 

ok, confirmed about Ovid now.

 

 

 

Electric Mango  -For the first time, I think he might be town. 

 

I do not know how much of the former you believe, but you took a gamble, and I knew it when I saw it. That certainty; genuine verity. Your vote is ill placed, but that may be a lesson later. But I believe (in) you.

 

And those who are town should trust these words.

TBRaiders quoted. If I read this correctly, TBRaiders voted for iSoc because iSoc voted for EM, after robert's half-claim saying he visited EM? @TBRaiders, do I have this interpretation correct? I currently do not consider Robert's claim to provide townie or scum points to EM, until we know more about what Robert did.

 

 

Yeah, I wasn't saying Robert got fully townie points for it, but at that point (and still) it was the only bit of useful information posted on D2.  Had Robert voted EM I would have followed.  When i started working a timeline, I actually became suspicious of Robert/EM/iSo and their voting.  I am not on the "we have to lynch" today wagon.  I am okay lynching someone I think is scum and have provided my list.  I don't think Ovid is scum, but if he gets lynched and turns out I was wrong then kudos to everyone who voted for him and big finger of suspicion to those who haven't thus far.  If he is town though, that puts more scrutiny on those of you who voted him. 

 

What strikes me as I write this though; given that Robert got no result - i.e. he had nothing to share by claiming - why did he throw out even this half claim in response to EM voting against him? It felt defensive when I originally read it, but also wastefully defensive; outing himself as a power role with nothing to really show for it.

I think at least two of us have asked him the same thing and we are still waiting on the answer.

Robert what did you mean by visit

 

 

How new is Spaztik Muffin? I don't think he's made a single helpful or informative post, if he's new to Mafia too he'd fit the 'new guy did it' profile. Although even if he isn't new, that is almost as bad, b/c then why is he so quiet as if he is unsure how to help/what to do?

 

What's really annoying is he has said so little, I'm not sure lynching him would give us much information, especially since we don't get to see their specific role when they die. Yet, how foolish is the town if we let him continue on this way the whole game just ignoring it?

He really should be near the top of everyone's list.

 

Unvote

Vote Spaztik

 

Maybe we should just cut the dead weight first? See what we can't gain from that. Being dead weight is probably a scum tell, isn't it?

this is my first mafia game and im still confused how you guys are getting walls of text from whats happened to so far

it looks like people are just making up reasons to vote for someone and hope others jump on board.

 

im waiting for next lynch/night events to see what happens there

 

"This the first time ive seen a themed mafia game... quite interesting

 

There is usually a sk so i dont think there would be 2 factions

 

If someone has a taste for abducting new people j hope im not next" ~ Spaztik on Page 11 (early in Day 2)

 

^ I was looking back at early day 2 to review where Robert first made his claim and I saw this...

 

"there is usually a sk so i dont think there would be 2 factions"

 

Spoken like a pro, Spaztik, but I thought this was your first game?

you do make very good points but you forget that this isnt the only forum that i go.

 

i'm sure most are aware that FARK has a long running mafia series and i read through a few to see what it was but i havent participated in any. you are free to look through all of them to see if i played 

 

 

If he is town though, that puts more scrutiny on those of you who voted him.

 

 

 

Votecount 1.11

Big Ego (0) -
Electric Mango (0) -
Imran Ehsan (0) -
iSocialism (2) - Ovidsidios, Sam᠎us
KevinH (1) - Rafay
killgor (0) -
Lyner (0) -
Ovidsidios (1) - iSocialism
Rafay (0) -
Road2Victory (2) - Imran Ehsan, Lyner
Robert2424 (0) -
Sam᠎us (0) -
Spaztik Muffin (0) -
TBRaiders (0) -

No Lynch (8) - Big Ego, TBRaiders, KevinH, Robert2424, Spaztik Muffin, killgor, Electric Mango, Road2Victory

Not Voting (0) -

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to reach majority and 4 to reach half-majority.
No Lynch is the current wagon leader at L-0
Deadline is Wednesday, March 4th, 2015 @ 19:45 EDT

 
 

What, I think  the line up is, is most likely one scum on the lynching side, and maybe two scums on the no-lynch bandwagon. With this I think we might have a late stagger on the No-lynch side. leaving me to look at Em and killgor. R2V is a new so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Vote Electric Mango

 

 

Do you think they would be so brazen?

 

TBR, it's most assured of my innocence. They who are off to lynch me are none other than whom their own has given away (with the exception of big ego whose deplorable actions shall not be mentioned here, but by its precedence). You had it here. 1) Road2Victory Preston, iSocialism, Spaztik Muffin

 

But you have let your antecedents bewilder you in your appr, and perhaps even leads you here to trust me. In which case, what you believe is true, although for all the wrong justifications. I know the contrary is true for some. Those whom have voted to lynch, will be proven wrong, despite the validity of their justifications.

 

Despite all my perusal into the depths, I could not draw a speck from lyner. I have faith in his innocence, but take that with a grain of salt.

 

Killgor's seemingly chaotic character alignment is sometimes hard to wrestle with. I'll call him the wild card, but I think I see the light in him

 

 

you do make very good points but you forget that this isnt the only forum that i go. i'm sure most are aware that FARK has a long running mafia series and i read through a few to see what it was but i havent participated in any. you are free to look through all of them to see if i played

yeah I don't think I'm gonna sign up on the Fark forums and look through them all, I'll just take your word on it for now

 

Yet how ironic that the truth in his words (at least not the first sentence of each) given our current situation. I have not lost my vision, though you bear our sigil and colors. In this game, I know sir, you are scum. Your scent has changed, and perhaps this may be cheating, but sir...you do not smell of an honest man

I poke at a lurker in the shadows to come out so we can have a better look at him and you call me dishonest for it? You have lost your vision. You strike blindly at imagined foe. You say you are not scum, I tend to believe you and so I search for other more likely suspects, and you strike at me for it. Is that what you call clear vision, old man?

If I were dishonest, I would have taken the easy road a long time ago.

I poke at a lurker in the shadows to come out so we can have a better look at him and you call me dishonest for it? You have lost your vision. You strike blindly at imagined foe. You say you are not scum, I tend to believe you and so I search for other more likely suspects, and you strike at me for it. Is that what you call clear vision, old man?

 

If I were dishonest, I would have taken the easy road a long time ago.

 

 

Who are you calling an old man, you old timer! http://images.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies/wheelchair.gif (but seriously, I ain't old)

 

But you won't redeem your name. You're scum, and the way your posie dances around each other is demonstrative. 

Good analysis posted by Preston. I tend to agree with most of it and is glad to see he is voting the same way I am. Also agreed with him that Robert needs to clarify his role. At this point there is no point hiding it. Everyone, including the scum knows that he has an active ability now. If he dies in the night we will lose the info he has on EM. There is no point now for him to be hiding his role since he revealed he had a role in the first place.

 

Ovid's sudden reverasal to accuse Big Ego is interesting. However, he still smells scum to me. Something about his posts are off, Ego in contrast looks more townie. So I am happy with the state of affairs currently (ie Ovid getting lynched today). If he turns up townie though Spatzik and iSocialism looks a lot more scummy. iSoc's vote on Ovid looked very like an OMGUS and jumping on the bandwagon. Spatzik has been jumping on wagons as well without posting much content. killgor looks townie to me. Lyner needs to post more...he is verging on lurking.

 

Today's lynch will give us a lot of good info. Looking forward to it.

Votecount 2.14

Big Ego (0) -

Electric Mango (0) -

Imran Ehsan (0) -

iSocialism (2) - TBRaiders, Ovidsidios

KevinH (0) -

killgor (1) - KevinH

Lyner (0) -

Ovidsidios (5) - Imran Ehsan, Spaztik Muffin, Robert2424, Preston, iSocialism

Preston (1) - Electric Mango

Robert2424 (0) -

Spaztik Muffin (1) - Big Ego

TBRaiders (0) -

 

Not Voting (2) - killgor, Lyner

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to reach majority and 4 to reach half-majority.

Ovidsidios is the current wagon leader at L-2

Deadline is Monday, March 23rd, 2015 @ 19:20 EDT

 

 

Today's lynch will give us a lot of good info. Looking forward to it.

 

 

I believe less and less in you the more you seem to stray from reason. But I can not help but believe that you too have fallen prey to this:

 

 

 

I want to stress that everything people are going on today is *behavioral* - guessing based on people's actions that you think are scummy. This is HIGHLY prone to interpretation by different individuals. The only non-behavioral information we have is who died, their flavor names, peoples' votes, and the half-claim by robert/name claim by Kevin.

 

 

Otherwise you would not have missed the glaring contradictions in 

 

 

 

Spatzik has been jumping on wagons as well without posting much content.

 

 

 

I everyone to put pressure on this guy and lynch him today as the other wagons are nearly not as good.

 

 

For all those reasons you have pinned on me, it would behoove you to yield me the point that far others have lurked more and contributed less. Those unbreakable points you will not cease to claim that makes me scum, assuredly, undoubtedly, but where is the equality. How in the world, has Lyner not attracted more negative rep than I?

 

Anyone who justifies Spatz should be automatic scum suspect. Preston, for all his wall of texts, thinks that I am worse than a belligerent bandwagoner who up to this point has yet to contribute as much as me.

 

I just can't reason it. yet in this case,whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. You've shown immediately partiality to Preston, whose goal was to hit the ground running and turn the lynch vote. Lucky for him, our mercies made that easy. Do not confuse his luck for prowess. I am a victim of circumstance. The poor related story of the scapegoat meant to ameliorate an awkward ragequit.

2 days left before the judgment. 2 days left to prove the innocence of the poet. What will he do? What will he reveal?

 

 

He will reveal the truth.

 

The question is... when?

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile nobody cares about our policemen.

it looks like people are just making up reasons to vote for someone and hope others jump on board.

Exactly. Welcome to Mafia!

 

 

I am not on the "we have to lynch" today wagon.

If we don't lynch, we will probably lose more townies in the night and be in worse shape tomorrow.

There is a hope that the scum might kill each other, but I feel the best chance to take is to lynch and hope to get lucky.

So it seems Big Ego is continuing to pursue his suspicion of Spaztik. Ovid's responses as part of that conversation seem to be defending Spaztik and attacking Big Ego. Given the lateness of the day, I am a little surprised to see Big Ego striking out on his own like this. While prodding lurkers is typically not a bad move, I am not sure that Spaztik fully fit that label - you could perhaps say his votes were thin and bandwagon-y, but then what do we make of his random voting for TBR out of nowhere?

 

While this is again behavioral, Scum tend to try to avoid standing out. They accomplish this by staying on well agreed-upon bandwagons, lurking, or providing minimal activity through fluff (flavor) and null (no content added) posts. They DO try to avoid being on wagons that lynch townies when the day ends, though. So there are two ways to interpret this sequence of events:

1. Big Ego-as-scum had his vote on the Ovidsidios wagon, which gained steam with Preston and iSocialism adding votes to it. With that lynch seemingly assured, he moves his vote elsewhere so as not to be on the wagon when the day ends. This could be a defensive maneuver and possibly scummy. If a second scum is ALSO on the Ovid wagon, Big Ego looking to separate votes would be a wise scum move.

2. Big Ego-as-town has no reason to simply stick with an existing wagon, and thusly feels free to stand out and pursue an impulse against Spaztik. He said to Ovid that his actions were to prod a lurker, though the level of Spaztik lurking is up for debate.

 

I currently am watching Lyner and EM. EM still needs to post since I joined the thread, and he has been conspicuously absent for a while after throwing the 5th vote on R2V just before his replacement. Lyner is not posting much, and his last two posts are largely null posts with no content really added; his apparent eagerness to see Ovid lynched makes me consider Lyner effectively on the wagon, whether he votes it or not.

 

I am not on the "we have to lynch" today wagon.

If we don't lynch, we will probably lose more townies in the night and be in worse shape tomorrow.

There is a hope that the scum might kill each other, but I feel the best chance to take is to lynch and hope to get lucky.

 

I have to echo and agree with KevinH on this particular point, TBR. We are woefully short on actual information - given 2 night kills with no role flips, we have less going for us than a normal game at this point, even given the Day 1 no-lynch. We don't know if we still have a cop or not, and Robert has revealed his having a role and thus may be targeted; thusly we cannot rely on power roles to fully bail us out. A second no-lynch would potentially result in 2 more dead with no further information; we must lynch someone to start the vote analysis, otherwise we'll still be in this same position on day 3. In my opinion (which I know Kevin does not share) normally all this behavioral-based voting should belong more on Day 1; but without a lynch to force people to commit to their votes and start the vote analysis then, Day 1 ends up being a wash.

Good analysis posted by Preston. I tend to agree with most of it and is glad to see he is voting the same way I am. Also agreed with him that Robert needs to clarify his role. At this point there is no point hiding it. Everyone, including the scum knows that he has an active ability now. If he dies in the night we will lose the info he has on EM. There is no point now for him to be hiding his role since he revealed he had a role in the first place.

 

Ovid's sudden reverasal to accuse Big Ego is interesting. However, he still smells scum to me. Something about his posts are off, Ego in contrast looks more townie. So I am happy with the state of affairs currently (ie Ovid getting lynched today). If he turns up townie though Spatzik and iSocialism looks a lot more scummy. iSoc's vote on Ovid looked very like an OMGUS and jumping on the bandwagon. Spatzik has been jumping on wagons as well without posting much content. killgor looks townie to me. Lyner needs to post more...he is verging on lurking.

 

Today's lynch will give us a lot of good info. Looking forward to it.

Good to see a response from Imran; this is your first since I first posted too. Imran seems to be of the mind that Big Ego's voting for Spaztik is a townie move moreso than a scum move; possibly based on Ovid's attacks on Big Ego, i.e. 'enemy of my enemy' or 'suspect of my suspect' as the case may be.

 

If Ovidsidios proves to be town, obviously his suspect list will gain weight for consideration on Day 3 - this will include Big Ego and iSocialism; his highlighting also included spaztik muffin, but given that Big Ego and Spaztik are currently attacking each other the list is either flawed or Big Ego and Spaztik are attempting to distance themselves from each other. Given that Big Ego is newish, I don't know if this is something he would come up with on his own - the mafia COULD have daytalk, but honestly if this game setup is both no role information on death and mafia daytalk, that would be pretty brutal for the town.

 

Speaking to Ovidsidios's response to Imran: Yes, others have been lurking more; I will give you that point quite readily, you are active if nothing else. Activity does not in itself confer towniness however, especially if that activity largely starts when someone calls you out for being inactive (i.e. lurking). As for people bandwagoning, my original long post pointed out that there's been a lot of that going on today; ultimately one must chose a suspect and commit to it, hoping to either find scum or narrow their suspect list if the suspect proves to be town. Given the Day 1 no-lynch and apparent failure of any power roles we have last night to produce anything actionable, Day 2 has been thin.

 

However I'd like to ask you to clarify one line from your post:

Anyone who justifies Spatz should be automatic scum suspect.

Watching the recent byplay between yourself, Big Ego and Spaztik, your attacks on Big Ego came across to me as at least a tacit defense of Spaztik; i.e. justifying him with "There is a fairly obvious defense for this..." - expand upon this point please, at least to clearly state your position with regards to Spaztik? Your verse-style of writing, while stylistically entertaining to read, lends itself to misunderstanding at a time when you need to be *very* clear on whom you suspect and whom you do not. If you are town, the record of your final suspect list - less so your earlier ones - will be your epitath, and carry weight going into further days.

 

-Preston

 

 

Watching the recent byplay between yourself, Big Ego and Spaztik, your attacks on Big Ego came across to me as at least a tacit defense of Spaztik; i.e. justifying him with "There is a fairly obvious defense for this..." - expand upon this point please, at least to clearly state your position with regards to Spaztik?

 

 

 

That was not a defense for Spaztik, but to you it's interchangeable. The words were more to convey that there were other reasons for considering Spaztik scum then a seemingly simple slip of words. But then again, even his excuse was very poorly conceived and had it not been for this debacle we might have had reason to press the lens of analysis on far more pressing suspects.

 

With the Book of Life all our words, acts, and thoughts have been written.

 

Behold, this is the life of Spaztik:

 

#22

#124

#134

#150

#153

#187

#194

#201

#220

#240

#264

#273

#356

#370

#392

#413

#451

#461

 

Yet

 

 

 

 

I agree with Kevin that we are thin on actual information; and picking Ovid from the three

wagons at the time of my novel post was not simple.

 

 

 

 

I have reasons to vote and not vote for all three. This is a difficult choice. However I am ultimately falling on the side of voting for Ovidsidios

 

 

How did you completely overlook Spaztik? Not even an honorable mention. I'm sure the excuses will come flying out, and none will think the wiser that if someone is speaking to you, that your response will be anything but scummy...

 

My scuttle with Imram was a rather personal one to someone's whose attitude verged the dickish/asshole. I refused to be tossed around like a servant for information. When I "refused" it was because there are two types of people:

 

 

 

Scums would love this condition of scattered votes, I wouldn't

 

Vote: Road2Victory

You should post more because 1) when you don't, it makes me suspicious of you; and 2) when you do, you share wisdom.  Too many scattered votes.  This is a freaking mess.

 

 

 

 

Now, explain what you posted in clear concise sentences, identifying (i) your list of scummy players, (ii) why do you think these players are scummy and (iii) what do you think of robert's claim.

 

 

 

Plus, you all are committing an egregious fallacy. You lynch paradoxically and one that will disrupt the line of reasoning throughout. It's quite simple:

 

1. I am a townie

• I have been accused of fluff posting
• I have been accused of lurking 
• And it looks to be about it...if someone has more that doesn't border the semantic, or regards playing styles than by all means (enlighten me).

     2. When I am proven a townie, these qualities of suspicion will be cast under the shadow of doubt. "We thought these were scum qualities, but since                  we've lynched a townie, who knows

 

 

 

Speaking to Ovidsidios's response to Imran: Yes, others have been lurking more; I will give you that point quite readily, you are active if nothing else. Activity does not in itself confer towniness however, especially if that activity largely starts when someone calls you out for being inactive (i.e. lurking). As for people bandwagoning, my original long post pointed out that there's been a lot of that going on today; ultimately one must chose a suspect and commit to it, hoping to either find scum or narrow their suspect list if the suspect proves to be town. Given the Day 1 no-lynch and apparent failure of any power roles we have last night to produce anything actionable, Day 2 has been thin.

 

 

Now let us speak with tenderness and care...

 

You mention activity neither helps nor hurts. I agree, and when someone spoke to me, I responded. This is perfectly natural, responsive behavior. Spaztik as well performed this move, I just gave Imram the finger when he did it to me. Still doesn't make me a scum. By interpretation, in your deluded mindset, but not in actuality. Further, as I interpreted it, Imram was trying to get a rise out of me, in the hopes that I would reveal something scummy, but all you have done is attack my character (fallacious), and when I have provided you ample information to make a better decision, you have opted with the latter (of the second underlined) than the former (which is the ideal of any mafia player).

 

It would serve in the towns best interest to settle with the latter when a standstill has been presented. But I see no standstill. I see those same people who have been suspect SINCE DAY 1 now circling and gravitating around their prey.

 

Yes, day one was rough, but to rush a lynch and then read between the lines is far less honorable, reasonable, or helpful.

 

I have easily swept through 24 pages back and forth, and the signs are there.

 

Here is a personal favorite:

 

 

 

iSocialism thanks for your support and for defending me. Hopefully I can play with you again sometime.  Kazicore just replace me. I don't care any more. 

 

 

The actions of R2V were tragic ones, and it was sad to see him go. His rage quit was, however, do to his role. He was scum, I believe we all know it to be true. S/o to iSocialism for his earlier defensive post maybe...but I recall a mafia game with EM when we had communication 

 

 

 

the mafia COULD have daytalk, but honestly if this game setup is both no role information on death and mafia daytalk, that would be pretty brutal for the town.

 

 

I think this was what it was called. And when iSocialism tried to keep his friend in the game, R2V broke character again to tell his friend thanks.

 

Granted, it's a stretch, but I am only colluding with the list of other townies. When I overlay their lists, this is what I see.

 

And there is simply sooo much more of these little clues that will simply fall through the cracks.

 

But you replaced R2V and as such we assumed the roles would fall through. But Kazicore was lucky to do nothing, because the situation allowed for when our mercies ("Oh I don't want to lynch someone who just recently joined, no matter how good he is, even if they are replacing scum") would overcome our reasons, because we had no cause to believe he would have changed the roles.

 

An assumption that has us about to lynch a townie over scum.

 

So my list remains (in no particular order)

 

Scum

ISocialism

Spaztik

Preston

Big Ego

 

Townies

TBR

EM

Kevin

Killgor

 

Uncertain

Imram

Lyner

 

I cannot for the life of me identify Lyner (like, why?), and Imram just seems like an investigator (albeit a little "stressed" at that). I tipped my hat for when Robert made the Imran Ehsan - Seems frustrated. Lots of ???"s with him. Doesn't seem natural. He is on my suspicion list.

">observation. If it's just who he is, let's not lynch him for it...

This part of your response in particular stood out to me, so let's focus on it.

How did you completely overlook Spaztik? Not even an honorable mention. I'm sure the excuses will come flying out, and none will think the wiser that if someone is speaking to you, that your response will be anything but scummy...

I understand getting lost in that huge novel I first wrote so that you might have missed it, but I will pull out the relevant sections as a response to you:

2. Spaztik - A lot of his posts seemed fluff or otherwise null posts. However he jumped onto the Big Ego bandwagon (third vote). Then later voted for TBRaiders - who seems VERY town - for no reason other than TBR "needs some love as well"?? And finally jumped onto Ovidsidios with Imran and Robert.

 

...

 

There are currently three people with two or more votes on them:

iSocialism, Killgor, and Ovidsidios. In the interest of not fragmenting votes and helping the town to lynch someone today (with 3 offline days remaining) I will confine my current focus to these three so that at least ONE of them can be reasonably lynched

 

Ovidsidios - Against him is his potential lurking, lack of any vote applied even now, reluctance to explain his thoughts in a clear manner, and his push against Imran that he ultimately backed off from as votes mounted. For him is the fact that Robert2424 and Spaztik are on his wagon - I am uncertain about the pair of them. Imran I feel better about.

You can see Spaztik got a very clear mention, and I explicitly said why I initially limited myself to the three ongoing wagons as I got myself caught up again - namely that if I had not thrown my vote to one of the existing wagons (or not voted at all) it would have been an anti-town move. We *need* to lynch someone today for analysis' sake, and if I had voted for someone with no votes or otherwise avoided the ongoing discussion it would have been seen (or spun) as my trying to avoid committing myself to any particular course of action.

 

With that cleared up, let's look at what else you brought up.

 

1. You note that you have been accused of fluff posting and lurking, and that others have done this same. This much is true; Big Ego called out Spaztik for lurking, and I have pointed at EM and Lyner for their relative silence (I do not fully consider Lyner's recent posts to be more than 'show I am active' fluff, which is on the level of lurking).

 

Beyond those general faults, you are also accused of being unwilling to clarify or explain your position earlier on during your conversations with Imran. Most specifically I refer to this post:

 

When I see anything in the form of poetry I automatically skip over it. Its an-inbuilt function that cant be adjusted.

 

Now, explain what you posted in clear concise sentences, identifying (i) your list of scummy players, (ii) why do you think these players are scummy and (iii) what do you think of robert's claim.

 

...no?

 

I will provide activity, and, in some way, shape, or form, I will contribute. But it will be on my terms, not yours.

 

If Imran had been asking you to roleclaim or otherwise something unreasonable for one townie to ask another, that would have been one thing - but all he was asking was the same questions put to me when I entered the game: my position on people and recent events. I appreciate that you prefer to post with your own style, but when it gets in the way of clearly conveying your intent and suspicions then the resulting mis- or non-communication sows discord and runs counter to the idea of hunting for scum as a team. I explicitly called this out as one of the tiebreaker reasons that made my vote go to you and not one of the other two wagons at the time:

1. Refusing to clarify position when asked is disruptive/annoying at best and anti-town or scummy at worst. When you flat-out refused to explain yourself when asked, that was bad on your part.

To demonstrate that this is a problem, most recently your phrasing made it seem as though you were defending Spaztik from Big Ego - hence why I asked for clarification.

 

2. You throw out an interesting theory that iSocialism and R2V were scum partners, based on R2V thanking him for support in the midst of his ragequit. It is indeed very much a stretch as you acknowledge. While I obviously have no concrete means to refute the theory, note that I also acknowledged/thanked iSocialism for his defense of R2V when I joined the game. If the two of us were scum, that would mean I repeated the same mistake R2V did - even more of a stretch. Instead, iSocialism corrected me to say his vote for Killgor that had looked to me like support for R2V, was just because of Killgor's bandwagon hopping:

 

iSocialism actually voted for Killgor due to his R2V vote.

My vote fell more on killgor for his constantly band wagon hopping.

 

I think the simpler interpretation of R2V's parting gratitude for iSocialism is due to him reading iSocialism's vote the same way that I did upon joining the thread. So while I will give you credit for looking into subtext of what was said, there will be no water from this particular stone.

 

3. You provided a list of your current scum/town/unknown stance; thank you for that. I do note that Robert appears to be missing from it, though you referred to him in your final line (which appears strangely cut off?). Given that you previously threw out a quote asking how Lyner has not attracted more negative rep than you for his lurking/null posts, I am a little surprised to see him only on your 'uncertain' pile.

 

In the end this is how mafia often must go. Townies know only what they are provided by roles and mod postings; the rest can only be guesswork. You are, sadly, the best guess that we seem to have at the moment. Your chance at this point is to convince us that someone else is more worth of being that best guess. The accusations in your recent posts are spread among those voting for you, or protesting that you are not the only one to have lurked or posted fluff. Even now you posted "the life of Spaztik" while keeping your vote on iSocialism. Put your vote where your suspicions are instead of slinging accusations to see where they will stick: pick a singular target to justify your suspicions against, put forth a clear argument against them, and vote for that person. Let us judge what you do when backed against a wall, and the tide may yet turn if you are convincing about it. Nothing is final until the day ends and the votes are tallied.

 

-Preston

for what it's worth, i'm up for a spaztik vote. just don't know if we have time to perform it.

 

vote: spaztik

 

 

i might hop wagons again to a more lynch ready target in the near future though.

 

also, if you're wondering why I'm voting him, it's because it seemed to me like he was trying throughout the game to keep as low a profile as possible.

 

 

Put your vote where your suspicions are instead of slinging accusations to see where they will stick: pick a singular target to justify your suspicions against, put forth a clear argument against them, and vote for that person. Let us judge what you do when backed against a wall, and the tide may yet turn if you are convincing about it. Nothing is final until the day ends and the votes are tallied.

 

My vote will stay, and my efforts to expose those who are voting against me is not a petition in favor of salvation. It will be a compendium for future sources. The scum have no reason to surrender the death of a townie if it's assured. The minute one of you jump ship, the others will wonder the risks of staying as well.

 

 

 

You can see Spaztik got a very clear mention, and I explicitly said why I initially limited myself to the three ongoing wagons as I got myself caught up again - namely that if I had not thrown my vote to one of the existing wagons (or not voted at all) it would have been an anti-town move.

 

I don't think so. I think sounding impartial to a particular aspect of information/person while railing another player for the same reasons is a very anti-town move. If you had not disregarded all those elements, more so as they relate with other townies, you would have seen the same pattern.

 

I will continue to post as I have, because I am speaking to my flock, my herd. They do not know me, but I know them. Yet, the hour will come when they will at last see what I have spoken to be true. For I am not the truth, and this body shall pass. I realize it is foolish of me to ask that those citizens that hide behind their safeties to take a gamble. So I will stand here in the street, I will cry out to the world, I will listen though I did not listen before. Oh poor John, I should have listened to you...

 

 

Robert what did you mean by visit

I'm assuming this is in reference of half claim. EM had suspicions I visited ether Rafay or Shamus N1. The People who died. I thought it was funny he of all people thought that when I visited him. Witch EM gave me a ton of info with that. 

Good analysis posted by Preston. I tend to agree with most of it and is glad to see he is voting the same way I am. Also agreed with him that Robert needs to clarify his role. At this point there is no point hiding it. Everyone, including the scum knows that he has an active ability now. If he dies in the night we will lose the info he has on EM. There is no point now for him to be hiding his role since he revealed he had a role in the first place.

 

Ovid's sudden reverasal to accuse Big Ego is interesting. However, he still smells scum to me. Something about his posts are off, Ego in contrast looks more townie. So I am happy with the state of affairs currently (ie Ovid getting lynched today). If he turns up townie though Spatzik and iSocialism looks a lot more scummy. iSoc's vote on Ovid looked very like an OMGUS and jumping on the bandwagon. Spatzik has been jumping on wagons as well without posting much content. killgor looks townie to me. Lyner needs to post more...he is verging on lurking.

 

Today's lynch will give us a lot of good info. Looking forward to it.

Imran, your starting to push down a dangerous line. Why should I Full claim? So Scum know what I am? The Info I got mainly came from reaction afterwards from EM with who he thought I visited. Witch Tells me about his role more then he even knew. Now take this information, and think the possibility of my role. Cause if we still have newish scum out there, since that seems to be the common theory, what role could I have, that I'd gain my info the following day from the person I visited. Plus since there was 2 NK's gave me info also. 

 

Second, lets say I do full Role Claim, for really no reason or any pressure on me to do so. I paint a target on my back and possibly also EM who I think is town. The sad fact of this game is we don't see people's role when they die. I've already said my name in this game. So I've given out more then enough Information.

 

Thirdly, you've become very interested since my half claim, If I claim, are you going to claim also? You mentioning I should full claim more then once and preston also, which Preston came in on a role spot witch very well could be scum and I have small suspicions may be scum. Him saying I should Role claim only increases the amount of suspicion on him. Where I come from, we call this "Role Digging". I don't like it, and its scum behavior to do so. On this note, I don't like mass claiming as I feel it cheapens the game. However, Name claiming on the other hand, I don't mind. Everybody here probably has a name in this game, and I'm sure Kazio gave fake names to the scum. Course I've never been scum on this site yet, but its common for the mods to do so. 

 

 

1. Big Ego-as-scum had his vote on the Ovidsidios wagon, which gained steam with Preston and iSocialism adding votes to it. With that lynch seemingly assured, he moves his vote elsewhere so as not to be on the wagon when the day ends. This could be a defensive maneuver and possibly scummy. If a second scum is ALSO on the Ovid wagon, Big Ego looking to separate votes would be a wise scum move.

I don't believe I ever voted for Ovid. I voted Imran, then iSocialism, then Spaztik.