19 replies to this topic

[DeathMerchant]

So I went on Facebook this morning and I had a compelling drive to write this out. I've been thinking of these events over the past couple months and the recent news regarding Clinton's private email service and Obama being unaware of it made me sit down and want to share my thoughts with everyone here. Below is what I posted on Facebook earlier today.

 

Is it just me, or does it seem like our President 'supposedly' gets most of his news from outside news sources? There are numerous instances where he has used the excuse about not knowing anything, but I will only list the most glaring and controversial events.

 

Air Force One Flyover of New York City:
In April 2009, I personally got too see this event first hand as I was in NYC on a school field trip. Air Force One flew low over New York City as part of a photo op. Local officials were not told about this event, and it led to some public panic, given the events of 9/11. The whole flight looked very strange because a huge plane was flying formation with an Air Force Fighter Jet. It was almost like the plane was being escorted to land due to an in air incident. When asked about the flyover, Obama stated "It was a mistake, as was -- as was stated. It was something we found out about along with all of you and it will not happen again." How did Obama not know air Force One was on an exercise or photo op? Its simply impossible he was not told in advance Air Force One was to be unavailable during that time frame. Or where Air Force One would be located.

 

Fast and the Furious:
In December 2010, U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed by gunfire from weapons the ATF allowed into Mexico. The ATF originally hoped to let these weapons into Mexico and subsequently trace them to drug cartels. The investigation was handled so poorly that most of these weapons simply vanished and ended up killing numerous Mexican citizens, Mexican Police Officers, and Agent Brain Terry. In a 2011 interview Obama was quoted as saying: "I heard on the news about this story that Fast and Furious, where allegedly guns were being run into Mexico and ATF knew about it but didn't apprehend those who had sent it". If this operation was truly started by the Bush Administration, then why did the Obama Administration not have better oversight for this operation, or cancel it entirely? This failed Operation could have been a powder keg had the news media accurately reported on the event instead of trying to cover it up.

 

IRS Targeting of Conservative Groups:
In 2013, IRS Official Lois Lerner stated that the IRS had been targeting conservative groups. When these groups would apply for tax exempt status, the IRS gave them increased scrutiny and did their best to draw out the time length of the approval process. When asked about this incident Obama responded "I first learned about it from the same news reports that I think most people learned about this,". Perhaps Obama truly didn't know about this incident, but then who did? Who in the IRS or higher up U.S. Government, ordered the intentional targeting of conservative organizations applying for tax exempt status? This is almost the similar to the Watergate incident. Which was a huge setback of this country, and it tarnished our image of a Democracy. Targeting someone using an abuse of power like what the IRS did isn't explicitly illegal, but it can open up Civil Lawsuits.

 

VA Wait Time Scandal:
In 2014, media reports began surfacing that dozens of veterans died while awaiting care at a Phoenix VA facility. Veterans were placed on secret waiting lists and some higher ups were supposedly given bonuses because of the small amounts of treatments being performed and patients. Obama claims he had no knowledge of these events whatsoever. But in late 2008, during Obama's wait to assume the Presidency, Veterans Affairs officials warned Obama and Biden that they shouldn’t trust the wait times that its facilities were reporting.

 

Hilary Clinton Personal E-mails:
We just learned recently that while acting as then Secretary of State, Clinton was using her own personal email service and not an official government email. She used this email to conduct confidential government business and it was her primary account. Obama stated that he heard about this "The same time as everybody else, through news reports.". Now I would like to think that an immense level of safeguards and security was used to secure and encrypt Clinton's emails. And using a private, high security email service should be up to the individual as long as its a highly reputable setup and protective measures are in place. But how could Obama not have known this? Her email address would not have ended with .gov therefore giving it away that it was an unofficial email source. Clinton and Obama exchanged emails on a regular basis so why did no one in the Obama Administration (or any Government Official for that matter) not realize or care that she was using a private email to conduct Official Government business?

 

So my real question to all of this is, what does our President actually know? Or has he known about certain instances prior to them becoming a breaking news story (some credible evidence exists to support his administration knew about the growing VA problem), but simply does nothing to address the problem. Essentially playing dumb and hoping the problem goes away on its own. I expect more from this President because it is his duty to lead our country and take responsibility. He has used the "I didn't know" excuse far too many times. Even if he truly did not know, don't you think its his job to take it upon himself to ask questions and find out what is really going on?

 

[Blade 619]

I can only really answer this from an English perspective, but our PM has MUCH less to do (I'd imagine) than the US President, however I wouldn't see him micromanaging things as a good idea. Personally I want people at the top to delegate, take the VA thing... he's not gonna be able to do anything himself, but can apply pressure to the department head to get it sorted.

The AF1 thing was funny at the time (for me anyway), unless he was planning on using it or asked to use it I don't see why they'd have to tell him. Most things he could just use M1 for anyway.

[DeathMerchant]

Its not that Obama should be micro managing everything, but why is it that the Staff running his Administration are absolutely clueless to what is occuring throughout the U.S. We have all these departments and agencies and while we can't keep track of everything going on in them, we certainly can certainly improve how they operate.

 

The Secret Service is another fine example of having fallen in dismay. Just look at all the incidents involing the Secret Service since 2009.

 

These types of issues never were brought up (not saying things of this nature never happened, but if it was a big enough story it would have likely gotten leaked), during the 1st Bush Administration, the Clinton Administration (which had its own issues but no one ever got killed or died), and the 2nd Bush Administration. So why is it that all of a sudden, as soon as the Obama Presidency takes Office that all these apparent 'rogue' acts keep happening within our Government, and Obama claims to have no knowledge of them.

 

I'm trying to take the hard route and not the easy road. The easy one would be just saying Obama is a disconnected President who spends his time playing golf. Thats not what I'm trying to say at all. I'm presenting evidence of a somewhat disturbing noticeable pattern and I'm really hoping we can all have the maturity of not blowing this up into a biased thread bashing fest.

 

So for those who wish to comment, please lets keep it civil and only state facts which can be backed up, and supported. Opinions are great but please leave out unwanted insults.

[Robert2424]

Obama is just one man, in a very large and popular nation in the world. This issues are mostly small stuff. Air Force one, not as small, and this is the first time I've heard of it. I have to wonder about our government sometime and who really is in charge. Not to sound like I'm supporting Obama, but I also wonder if the president has turned into just someone the government to blame while the government dose what they want. What is what they want to do, I have no idea. 

[Third King]

I image that these are just a handful of incidents that have happened over his two terms, but I also think they happened during other presidencies as well. Part of it is due to how fast information technology/social media has developed in just a few years (think Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc.).

 

As the Chief Executive, I expect him to be held accountable for all the fuck ups our executive agencies commit, but I also know he is not a god and don't expect him to be able to run things 100% efficiently and effectively.

 

Our Presidents probably knows a lot more than we will ever give them credit for (and I think Bush Jr was a certified dumb-ass), but they also don't know everything.

[Ali bin Turban]

At first I though you're talking about TW and had a moment of "wtf, is he spying him in RL?" .

 

Back to the topic, from the foreigner's perspective (from a country that's quite friendly towards USA) I'd say that in the XXI century you were out of luck when it comes to presidents .

 

Obama is just one man, in a very large and popular nation in the world. This issues are mostly small stuff. Air Force one, not as small, and this is the first time I've heard of it. I have to wonder about our government sometime and who really is in charge. Not to sound like I'm supporting Obama, but I also wonder if the president has turned into just someone the government to blame while the government dose what they want. What is what they want to do, I have no idea. 

He's not been given his staff by his predecessor. He was making personal choices, so he takes responsibility for their decisions.

[Duderonomy]

I've had a fair amount of experience with managing small groups of people in the past, and you usually have a long list titled "wish I could get to this". I imagine that Obama has a list at least a hundred times as long. You either prioritize or get paralyzed by every small decision while working 80-hour workweeks. Everything you've listed sounds like an issue that should be dealt with by Obama's immediate reports or their reports, not him. Obama needs to focus on what is most important to him like: Obamacare, energy, Ukraine, Iran, Syria, drug legalization etc. 

 

It's possible that Obama has a problem with delegation, which can be typical with someone not used to a managerial-level position (which a senator wouldn't be). You have to give tasks to others, and yes, you will have to burn alongside them if they do it wrong. Enabling them to do it right is a difficult skill to master, but is necessary when you have as many direct/indirect reports as Obama has. You don't have to know how to do their jobs, but you need to know the right questions to ask to make sure they are doing their jobs.

[Lysistrata]

Whenever anything happens involving the Obama Administration... Obama acts like he's been totally blindsided by the whole thing and he knew nothing about it. This pattern of denial has left me believing that I know what happens before he does.

 

If I could just get one question to him, I would ask... "Sir, are you lying? or are you just incompetent?"

 

If you want to know who is really running things... her name is Valarie Jarret.

[Icewolf]

I will echo what has already been said, it is impossible to know everything. If you have ever worked in a high pressure environment you just have to learn to deal with managers who simply don't have time to deal with small stuff, even if it has big consequences. 

So I went on Facebook this morning and I had a compelling drive to write this out. I've been thinking of these events over the past couple months and the recent news regarding Clinton's private email service and Obama being unaware of it made me sit down and want to share my thoughts with everyone here. Below is what I posted on Facebook earlier today.
 
Is it just me, or does it seem like our President 'supposedly' gets most of his news from outside news sources? There are numerous instances where he has used the excuse about not knowing anything, but I will only list the most glaring and controversial events.
 
Air Force One Flyover of New York City:
In April 2009, I personally got too see this event first hand as I was in NYC on a school field trip. Air Force One flew low over New York City as part of a photo op. Local officials were not told about this event, and it led to some public panic, given the events of 9/11. The whole flight looked very strange because a huge plane was flying formation with an Air Force Fighter Jet. It was almost like the plane was being escorted to land due to an in air incident. When asked about the flyover, Obama stated "It was a mistake, as was -- as was stated. It was something we found out about along with all of you and it will not happen again." How did Obama not know air Force One was on an exercise or photo op? Its simply impossible he was not told in advance Air Force One was to be unavailable during that time frame. Or where Air Force One would be located.

The trick here is that there are two Air Force Ones. Air Force One is the call sign given to any aircraft the president is in, and there are two 747s used to carry out the role.

SO the President may have access to one in Washington, whilst the other one is in New York doing photo work.
 

Hilary Clinton Personal E-mails:
We just learned recently that while acting as then Secretary of State, Clinton was using her own personal email service and not an official government email. She used this email to conduct confidential government business and it was her primary account. Obama stated that he heard about this "The same time as everybody else, through news reports.". Now I would like to think that an immense level of safeguards and security was used to secure and encrypt Clinton's emails. And using a private, high security email service should be up to the individual as long as its a highly reputable setup and protective measures are in place. But how could Obama not have known this? Her email address would not have ended with .gov therefore giving it away that it was an unofficial email source. Clinton and Obama exchanged emails on a regular basis so why did no one in the Obama Administration (or any Government Official for that matter) not realize or care that she was using a private email to conduct Official Government business?

This depends on whether he ever sent emails himself, or if he asked a secretary to do it and he just dictated the messsages. Most higher up managers in large organisations don't manage their own mailboxes, they have a PA do it and they then just highlight the important ones to the relevant person. It is also possible that Clinton was re-routing emails through an official address that then just forwarded them to her private email.

Also if you use outlook to handle your email, you find that it doesn't actually display the email address if the person is in the address book (which you would assume a PA would put into Obama's address book) so all he would see is Clinton, Hillary (potentially with a "sent on behalf of" added if her PA also sends her emails). So no, he wouldn't necassarily notice as why would you bother to check?

[DeathMerchant]

Yes, I am fully aware that their are 2 assigned Air Force Planes for the Presidency, and that any plane the President steps, automatically is assigned the call sign, Air Force One, regardless of make/model.

[Lysistrata]

I agree that it's impossible to know everything, but it's also impossible for the President to know nothing about his own administration.

This man has never taken responsibility for anything negative that happens from his policies, his choices, or his lies.

 

Remember that if you like your plan you can keep it? I have never touched Obamacare in any way, and our personal health insurance that we get from my wife's employer has changed dramatically. Our premiums have gone up, prescriptions that used to cost us $5.00 no matter what they were are no longer covered, and our deductables have doubled. Obamacare has made it impossible for us to use our insurance. We just have to pay more so other people that get it for free can go to the doctor whenever they want. Good plan.

[Icewolf]

Yeah the US medical system is ridiculous.

You know how much I pay at point of delivery? £0.

You know how much I pay through taxation?

The same as a US citizen, the proportion of government health spending as a share of GDP is the same in the UK as in the US. (Both around 7%)

So the fact that you pay as much as I do in taxes and then STILL have to pay for private medical insurance really screams that something is wrong.

[Lysistrata]

Us Americans, we like options. We like business that fall over themselves to bring us the best service at the best price. If we don't like the service we get, we change it to someone else that will work harder for our money. We don't like government control of anything. It removes incentive to offer good service and we become slaves to whatever they wish to supply. When I was younger I always felt that if the government wanted to force me to purchase something, it would be their responsibility to supply it at a reasonable cost. Then you get older and you realize that when you are forced to buy something, and there is only one brand on the shelf... the product is soon crap and no one cares how you feel about it.

[Owney]

Just think about all the other things "he doesn't know about"

[Duderonomy]

I wonder if he knows where Putin is.

[Shahenshah]

Us Americans, we like options. We like business that fall over themselves to bring us the best service at the best price. If we don't like the service we get, we change it to someone else that will work harder for our money. We don't like government control of anything. It removes incentive to offer good service and we become slaves to whatever they wish to supply. When I was younger I always felt that if the government wanted to force me to purchase something, it would be their responsibility to supply it at a reasonable cost. Then you get older and you realize that when you are forced to buy something, and there is only one brand on the shelf... the product is soon crap and no one cares how you feel about it.

I'd say govt shouldn't interfere, but definitely regulate.

Let's all remember the housing market bubble and financial products that caused the crash. Ultimately, govt had to step into save the economy. The businesses and people that caused the crash got a slap on the wrist, ultimately it was the tax payers, the consumers who were duped that paid for it.

People want the upside of free market, which you mentioned, but do not want market correction, the downside of free market and want govt to interfere(initiated under GOP president) and print fiat to save the banksters.

Its all rainbows until shit hits the fan, then principles and everything else is out of the window.

Edited by Shahenshah, 16 March 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[Duderonomy]

 

Us Americans, we like options. We like business that fall over themselves to bring us the best service at the best price. If we don't like the service we get, we change it to someone else that will work harder for our money. We don't like government control of anything. It removes incentive to offer good service and we become slaves to whatever they wish to supply. When I was younger I always felt that if the government wanted to force me to purchase something, it would be their responsibility to supply it at a reasonable cost. Then you get older and you realize that when you are forced to buy something, and there is only one brand on the shelf... the product is soon crap and no one cares how you feel about it.

I'd say govt shouldn't interfere, but definitely regulate.

Let's all remember the housing market bubble and financial products that caused the crash. Ultimately, govt had to step into save the economy. The businesses and people that caused the crash got a slap on the wrist, ultimately it was the tax payers, the consumers who were duped that paid for it.

People want the upside of free market, which you mentioned, but do not want market correction, the downside of free market and want govt to interfere(initiated under GOP president) and print fiat to save the banksters.

Its all rainbows until shit hits the fan, then principles and everything else is out of the window.

 

There is nothing wrong with agreeing to limited government as an ideal, while acknowledging that it does not always work in the real world. Regulation is needed because business is dominated by those willing to do everything they can to make a buck, even to the detriment of competition or their employees. Most Americans have forgotten the monopolies and labor practices of the Gilded Age, when businesses actively attacked the freedoms of their workers. Between watching their workers vote, hiring mercenaries to shoot strikers, and gobbling up all of their competitors, the ruthless giants ruled the U.S. for decades.

[Lysistrata]

I have to disagree with you Shah. It's government intervention and regulation that caused the housing market bubble. George W. Bush had nothing to do with it and could do nothing to prevent it. In 1977 Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, pushed through and signed into law the Community Reinvestment Act. When government steps in and tells the banks that they must loan money to people who could never pay them back, an inevitable chain of events began that could only end in disaster. When the government steps in a says to any private business "don't worry, we got your back", greed kicks in... costs and prices go up. Who cares when there is no risk? The gap between price and actual value get extremely out of balance. Then obviously something goes wrong and the whole pile of shit collapsed.

 

So what do you do when you are paying $500,000 for a house that is now worth $200,000? That's right... you give the keys back and walk away. This happened all over the country, in every community. The government bailed out the banks on condition that they would take care of the people, but they banked the money, covered their own ass, sat on their hands, and waited it out. When government regulation goes too far, when it gets too intrusive between good business sense, it all goes to hell.

[Shahenshah]

I have to disagree with you Shah. It's government intervention and regulation that caused the housing market bubble. George W. Bush had nothing to do with it and could do nothing to prevent it. In 1977 Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, pushed through and signed into law the Community Reinvestment Act. When government steps in and tells the banks that they must loan money to people who could never pay them back, an inevitable chain of events began that could only end in disaster. When the government steps in a says to any private business "don't worry, we got your back", greed kicks in... costs and prices go up. Who cares when there is no risk? The gap between price and actual value get extremely out of balance. Then obviously something goes wrong and the whole pile of shit collapsed.

So what do you do when you are paying $500,000 for a house that is now worth $200,000? That's right... you give the keys back and walk away. This happened all over the country, in every community. The government bailed out the banks on condition that they would take care of the people, but they banked the money, covered their own ass, sat on their hands, and waited it out. When government regulation goes too far, when it gets too intrusive between good business sense, it all goes to hell.

I did not know about the precursor events leading up to that, thanks Lys.

[Duderonomy]

The development of MBSs & CDOs didn't help. Banks figured out how to take any shaky loans that they had, slice them up, and offload them to investors. This meant they didn't plan to be on the hook for any loans that they made, encouraging salesmanship rather than solid credit research. When mortgage/loan brokers are more like car salesman than accountants, it creates a big problem for consumers and investors. Never assume that any broker is looking out for you. If they aren't on the hook for the loan, they will just try to sell you into the most debt that they can.

 

Like Lysistrata said, that isn't something Bush could have really helped. The economy is largely out of the president's hands. He doesn't control the federal reserve or spending (despite Congress's attempts to blame him for everything, THEY set the budget). Some regulation can be controlled by the president, but he generally doesn't have the professional knowledge to foresee problems. Interestingly, the Economist was one of the first news sources that sounded the alarm about 3-4 months before the crash, so there were experts in the know. The Fed should have known, but the bubble needed to burst by that point. They could have had a plan in place faster, though.