http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32213482

 

This thread is probably going to start a shitstorm and i'm really interested in how certain people here who normally defend Americans gun laws react after watching the video in the link above.

 

All I really have to say is, America your gun laws are a fucking joke.

 

Also notice how the idiot starts screaming for him to put his arms behind his back, like all of a sudden he wants to follow protocol, makes me fucking sick.

 

What really ticks me off is the officer immediately attempting to plant evidence on him after killing him so casually.

 

Thank god law prevailed and he's facing a murder charge

Actually Samus, the gun law debate is a cakewalk compared to the real issue these police killings represent.

That link doesnt have the full video, but I saw it on another site. This is more an issue of police brutality/racism than of gun laws really.

Yeah, this is pretty much a bad cop. You'll find them everywhere, but you're better off in a big city, since there's a media. Some of the stories of small town cops are really hair-raising, and there's not much you can do about them besides try to call in the FBI. I've heard of deputies sitting suspects down in an ant bed on rural country roads, and sheriffs refusing to accept prisoners from state law enforcement, forcing them to drive hours to find a lockup.

 

Always be polite and never run from the cops. It's like a dog chasing a cat. Of course, the cop in your article probably would have shot the guy, anyway.

 

http://www.cracked.com/article_22208_6-things-i-learned-broke-police-force-in-lawless-town.html

 

It is worth noting that these are a minority of law enforcement. Most officers are decent guys who just want to keep the peace and go home.

^What Duderonomy said

That link doesnt have the full video, but I saw it on another site. This is more an issue of police brutality/racism than of gun laws really.

I still think it's an issue.

 

Especially when these gun laws empower the police officers above all.

 

Had the police not had a gun, he would've been forced to use his non lethal to subdue the target.

This is straight up murder. The most disturbing thing to me is if there is no video the guy gets away with it to do it again, and no telling if he has done it before. Where the mistake was made was making this guy a cop to begin with. He should not have been on any police force with a taser, a club, or even a can of mace. You do not disarm the police force... you disarm this man. I don't know what was being said, I don't know if the man is a racist, I don't know why he shot the man... but he's on his way to prison and possibly execution, and it's his fault, not all law enforcement.

 

There are bad people in this world, and they do bad things. It's always been that way, but we hear about everything more now because of the internet, and a media with an agenda. If this didn't play out in favor of the current manufactured crisis, you would not hear about it. It's called "selective news reporting". If you want the whole story, watch Fox News, they don't participate in selective news reporting.

 

Again, the Constitution will trump any opinions from our friends in the UK.

 

That link doesnt have the full video, but I saw it on another site. This is more an issue of police brutality/racism than of gun laws really.

I still think it's an issue.

 

Especially when these gun laws empower the police officers above all.

 

Had the police not had a gun, he would've been forced to use his non lethal to subdue the target.

 

 

I think this is a completely separate issue. The police carry firearms in nearly every state, and that is all and well.

 

Now, the question is just how much power the police have in certain situations and what are moral and legal standards they are subject to.

It has already been said, but this is not a gun law issue.  This is an issue of a bad police officer, and more to the issue, a bad person.

 

Statistically speaking:

 

"* Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders.[13] [14] [15] Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.[16]."  https://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

 

Gun violence makes up about 8% of the violent crime in America.  Is that bad?  Yes.  Is that as bad as people are screaming it is?  No.

 

This case has almost nothing to do with gun laws.  There is no realistic way you can disarm the police force in America.  It will not happen.  There would have to be a full scale removal of guns from the country, and we all can make a pretty good guess as to where an attempt at that would lead.

 

What happened here is a travesty, but, it is not a gun law issue.  This is a case of a bad person abusing the power and tools he had at his disposal.  Does it happen?  Yes.  Is it common?  No.  I posted before about the number of encounters the police in America have with civilians on a daily basis, and the number of those encounters that ended in some form of violence.  It is less than 1% of police encounters that end in violence.  And if you look at police brutality, it is far less than 1% of those encounters.  This is looking at a pool of over 40 million encounters.  That tells me that the police are doing there job pretty effectively, and for the most part, by the book.

 

Is there anything where there is not outliers?  Can you think of anything that you can analyze where there is not something that falls on the outskirts?  I can't.  And with the numbers backing it, I think the police and gun laws here are actually pretty effective.  In fact, most states that have recently added the ability for citizens to conceal carry have noticed a drop in the crime rate.  Because an armed victim is not as much a victim.

 

As for this particular case (to stay on the topic), this guy is a disgrace.  He is thankfully being put through the system so he can get the sentence he deserves.  From all I can see he made a decision to take a life, and now he will pay for it.

its an interesting idea, but I'd rather police still have guns. Just because the police don't have guns, doesn't mean criminals won't have guns. They are called first responders for a reason. If they didn't have guns, whats the police officer suppose to do if some young thug did pull a gun on them? I'm not sure where you live Shamus, but America is a different place with different type of citizens. How do you expect a police force to police a population with guns when they don't have guns them self? We suppose to call in the National Guard if somebody pulls a gun and have martial law? This is simply a case a bad police officer.

 

Plus, this is a matter Race, not guns. The fact Race is still an issue is horrible. I personally don't see much of a difference cause somebody skin color is different. Children don't have this issue, and it doesn't even cross there mind when describing individuals. I have "Colored" Friends, and I'm pretty white as you can get. I personally don't see them any differently then me other then they can probably dance better then me. Course I'm a Christian, so maybe that affects my view on this. Skin Color to me, shows nearly nothing about the person, who they are, what they do, or what the personally value. Everybody is different, otherwise the world be very boring. 

Welcome to the police state.

Course I'm a Christian, so maybe that affects my view on this.

 

Let's not go there.

it is sort'a a gun issue actually because american cops have become trigger happy because they have the excuse that they thought the suspect was armed. this and the fact that they became confident over time that they can cover up most of these incidents. even here, if the incident wouldn't have been filmed the cop would have probably gotten away without anything but having to fill in a report.

it is sort'a a gun issue actually because american cops have become trigger happy because they have the excuse that they thought the suspect was armed. this and the fact that they became confident over time that they can cover up most of these incidents. even here, if the incident wouldn't have been filmed the cop would have probably gotten away without anything but having to fill in a report.

 

That's not a gun issue.  That's an accountability issue.  It's hard as shit to convict a police officer and that shouldn't be the case.  They should be the most accountable of all.  What you have here is another case of a super trooper wanting to play soldier.  Of course it'll be blamed on guns, but it really should be blamed on the cop mentality: "War on the streets" and "Police safety over public safety".

Yeah, police need to get away from the paramilitary mindset that SWAT and the "War on Drugs" instilled in the 80s. The primary goal of officers should be public safety with enforcing the law coming a distant second. Unfortunately, certain politicians (*cough*Nixon*cough*) saw drugs as an easy way to scare and control the public. They then took away judges' discretion when it came to sentencing, resulting in non-violent offenders flooding the prison system. Now, it takes hours for officers to report to any actual crime because most of our manpower is spent on drug busts and guarding inmates. It also doesn't help that drug laws institutionalize racism, since banned drugs were a vice for minority populations, while the drugs of the majority were left alone.

Yep. That's all true.

 

What's just as bad is Congress keeps buying military hardware the DoD doesn't need (because defense contractors line the congressmen/reps pockets) so what ends up happening is all the surplus gear gets leased to PDs.  That's why were seeing automatic AR-15s and MRAPs on the streets.  Meanwhile the ATF wants to ban civilian owned body armor and rifle ammunition.  It's insane people don't give a shit about this.

 

Course I'm a Christian, so maybe that affects my view on this.

 

Let's not go there.

 

Reverend Al Sharpton, Reverend Jesse Jackson, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, ect. Yes, you may be on to something.

 

 

Course I'm a Christian, so maybe that affects my view on this.

 

Let's not go there.

 

Reverend Al Sharpton, Reverend Jesse Jackson, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, ect. Yes, you may be on to something.

 

Don't forget Martin Luther King, Jr or the many white preachers that helped him. Correlation does not imply causation. Atheists tend to be more educated since they are a recent development, while Christian dogma tends to be the default for the majority.

 

Racism is a result of ignorance, not a side effect of religion. Not unless your religion is explicitly racist.

Yes, the study does explicity say that Christianity itself is not racist, it's more about how "religious (in-)groups" in general view "out-groups"

Edited April 8, 201511 yr by ccabal86

there is one problem though. you are expecting people to go into situations where they might die pretty fast if they aren't trigger happy. and once a few officers see some of their coleagues killed i'm pretty sure they will become trigger happy over time and their supperiors will be more than happy to cover up for them. and eventually, since they have the power to cover up for people they will loose the knots for other situations/people.

 

 

like it or not, if your cops think that they need to act fast or die, they will start acting fast. if they get proven that this is the case, they will start acting even faster. and there is where the problems start to happen.

 

in europe, most cops don't think they need to pull the trigger because there is a very low chance they will encounter someone with a gun. this makes them less likely to think about resorting to lethal force when encountering a dangerous situation.

 

also, a violent nation needs a police force that can handle it (usually through fear which is enforced by the capacity of violence).

My comment was sarcasm. These are all race-baiters that make tons of money from creating unions of racists, all under the religious protection of the Constitution. It's shameful. If you really want to help rid the country of racism you have to remove the profit from being a racist, and prosecute the extortion that these people inflict because they are racist.

 

Racism is a result of ignorance, not a side effect of religion. Not unless your religion is explicitly racist.

 

 

 

actualy, racism is usually the result of experience. you notice that most people of a specific race has certain customs and react to them. for example, i'm a proud racist against gipsies. i live in a place where we have a lot of them. they don't work and get their money from begging, they are the ones you have to look out for when out at night, they don't shower so if you have to share public transport with them prepare yourself for a long road, they piss/shit on the street in plain view. now someone else, who lives in america, who hasn't met a community of gipsies can say all they want that every human is equal, but that's not true. some people are an inconvenience to humanity and it might be best if they are exterminated.

actualy, racism is usually the result of experience. you notice that most people of a specific race has certain customs and react to them. for example, i'm a proud racist against gipsies. i live in a place where we have a lot of them. they don't work and get their money from begging, they are the ones you have to look out for when out at night, they don't shower so if you have to share public transport with them prepare yourself for a long road, they piss/shit on the street in plain view. now someone else, who lives in america, who hasn't met a community of gipsies can say all they want that every human is equal, but that's not true. some people are an inconvenience to humanity and it might be best if they are exterminated.

 

I know what you're talking about, I am more than familiar with the so-called "Gypsy problem". However, where you're fundamentally wrong is that this isn't a racial issue, it's a poverty issue, namely that our respective states have been unable or unwilling to address the ever growing number of people living in deep deprivation or in other words the underclass. There are many definitions, listed there, but I'd like to quote this:

 

 

Lawrence M. Mead defines the underclass as a group that is not only poor, but also behaviorally deficient. He describes the underclass as "dysfunctional." He provides the following definition in his 1986 book Beyond Entitlement,

 

It just so happens that in your and my country Gypsies make up the majority of the underclass, but it's different everywhere. I believe the only way to improve the underclass' situation comes through targetted and segregated education, and even then significant change is only likely to happen after a few generations.

Yeah, Killgor what you are talking about is a result of culture and poverty, not race. In the U.S., the "gangster culture" is not confined to African Americans or Latinos. Many poor European Americans also gravitate to the culture. The bad part is that entrenched prejudice can trap people into that culture. If you see every Gypsy as a homeless criminal, then you won't let them get training for a job that lets them escape that life. Crime is a necessity if you can't eat.

 

As a trend, the U.S. has actually experienced a vastly declining violent crime rate in the last twenty years. There are many theories on why (since everyone wants to get credit), but I think the rise of cheap entertainment is the real culprit. Potential criminals are indoors watching Sopranos or playing GTA5 instead of outside committing real crimes. Twenty years ago, if you wanted a realistic experience flying a jet or driving a dirtbike, you would have to pay thousands for the privilege. Now, 300-400 bucks can let you experience that and thousands of other adventures.

Relaxation of the ridiculous war on drugs reduces violent crime.  If you notice, current violent crime is reaching 1970s levels a period right before the start of the biggest failure in DEA/ATF history.