119 replies to this topic

[Lysistrata]

They aren't equal though are they. They are better off than they were 100 years ago but racism still exists.

Not a single time, in my entire life, have I felt entitled to anything because I'm a white dude. I have payed my way through life by working smart and respecting every soul I meet. There are white people that don't like black people, there are black people that don't like white people... it's just the way people feel about things, and you can't legislate emotions. It's like trying to make it a crime because gay scenes in movies creep me out. It's just the way people feel, and we all have the right to feel the way we do.

 

I worked for minimum wage once... I think it was $2.50 an hour, but like I said, I worked for minimum wage once... once, and never again. How long have you been working for minimum wage Chap? If you need a raise, the best way to get one is get a new job that pays you more. If all you can do is bag fries and sweep a floor... then I suggest getting lots of roommates because you're gonna need them. This is another thing our derelict education system has blessed us with... an extreme lack of ambition.

 

I just checked and all the channels are still on, the New York Times is still alive, all those awful websites are still up... nope, nothing has been shut down... too bad, I got a little excited! No one gets arrested unless they commit a crime... and most of the time they don't get arrested even if they do commit a crime. Good thing I'm not in charge... lots of executions for treason, but hey, that's just me. You really are experiencing the most open White House in history... Sean Spicer takes questions through Skype from reporters that never dreamed of ever getting a shot at asking the White House a question. I think it's amazing. No longer do you have to be a member of the elite club to ask a fucking question.

 

If there wasn't so many of you guys wanting Donald Trump dead, maybe it wouldn't cost so much to protect our President. Funny, I didn't hear you complain about all the money it cost to protect Obama and his family... but guess what, we still are protecting them. It's what we do for our Presidents, and past Presidents. There are a lot of sick people out there... just go outside and look around... you won't have to look too far, I'm quite sure of that.

[onbekende]

 

If Trump lies about something that really causes harm to the country or American citizens... then you will hear me complain. The personal attacks you guys hurl at him don't earn the respect of anyone, except maybe other people that don't like him. I do understand how you feel about it and I am just as shocked that he won as you are... but he did win. It's our turn to run things for awhile.

 

Not to be overly picky, but I believe he shouldn't lie, full stop. Don't think anything Obama said/did has directly hurt you, or did you get ferried off to gitmo?

[Lysistrata]

Not to be overly picky, but I believe he shouldn't lie, full stop. Don't think anything Obama said/did has directly hurt you, or did you get ferried off to gitmo?

"If you like your plan... you can keep your plan" - Barack Obama '09

 

That was the lie of the year, and it has cost everyone that had a plan thousands of dollars. It was compounded by the other lie that said the ACA would save every family $2,400.00 per year. Yeah... those are lies that hurt people.

 

Speaking of Gitmo... been following what those guys have done since Obama cut them loose? That has hurt people too.

 

There are more, but do we really have to relive the entire Obama era in a Trump thread?

[LordSunday]

 

Not to be overly picky, but I believe he shouldn't lie, full stop. Don't think anything Obama said/did has directly hurt you, or did you get ferried off to gitmo?

"If you like your plan... you can keep your plan" - Barack Obama '09

 

That was the lie of the year, and it has cost everyone that had a plan thousands of dollars. It was compounded by the other lie that said the ACA would save every family $2,400.00 per year. Yeah... those are lies that hurt people.

 

Speaking of Gitmo... been following what those guys have done since Obama cut them loose? That has hurt people too.

 

There are more, but do we really have to relive the entire Obama era in a Trump thread?

 

Interesting mentioning the ACA... My family have had to drop our old insurance due to that damned piece of legislation...

But even worse than us are my aunt and uncle. Now they do alright for themselves, they own a farm in Berks County, Pennsylvania. I won't disclose the full numbers, but since Obama "helped" us all with the ACA, their premiums have increased well north of $25,000 per year from what it was... I know they along with us are very much looking forward to the death of that...

[onbekende]

And did that rise be solely blamed on Obama or should we drag in the Republicans of the Capitol(s) for obstructing and adjusting the bill every step of the way? I for example heared that alot of "plans" where pulled due to the insure company pulling out of a state which didn't give it "its cut" of the Medicaid cash being used to support it. 2 way street offcourse, insure company probably also cut lose due to not getting "enough" of the $$. Sounds like fine capitalism at work.

 

Then again, some of the numbers floating around (also the +25k mentioned here) just sound hilarious when talking about health insurance around the world. How you folks not only made that business into one of the biggest profit margings around (for rich hendgefund managers) but also ludricous expensive compared to anywhere else is beyond me. Guess you folks just like seeing big numbers?

 

 

 

Anyway most of this boils down to state vs federal mandates/laws. Which get dragged in whenever one side tries to hinder/force the other. Not that suc tactics are unheared of, you folks are doing a mediocre job at it compared to Belgium

[Lysistrata]

And did that rise be solely blamed on Obama

Yes. My wife and I were Tea Party, and we argued the issue for an entire year to prevent that bill from becoming law. Every Republican Senator and Congressman warned everyone that Obama was lying about it. Not a single Republican supported it. We knew it would not work. They didn't listen, and passed it anyway with a super majority in the Senate. Obama made a big deal out of signing it into law, and gave a big finger to all of us while doing it. We have never touched it... we have only challenged it in court, and tried to repeal it several times.

 

When that bill became law, everyone that had health insurance had to have their insurance plan "reevaluated" to comply with the new law. Millions lost their insurance coverage. It was fairly easy for us... we just had our deductible jacked and lost prescription coverage. Others were not so fortunate. Now we'll probably have to go through it again, because it's failing hard and Democrats won't help the Republicans... so we'll see what happens next.

[onbekende]

And I keep wondering why you guys had to pay ludricous amounts already pre-ACA. Something about freedom probably >_>

[Lysistrata]

And I keep wondering why you guys had to pay ludricous amounts already pre-ACA. Something about freedom probably >_>

Why do you get to ask a one line question that takes paragraphs to answer? If you don't know I'll explain, but do you really care?, or are you just trolling me again? I will tell you the prime headers off the top of my head and they include Salaries, Education, Training, Regulations, Law, and Litigation... very little to do with caring about keeping anyone else alive.

[onbekende]

No, I mean why does it literally cost a ludricous amount (the +25k mentioned before for example). You folks spend an awfull amount on it, you are 5% GDP higher then the next western nation (17,1% vs 11,9% for sweden)

 

I chalk it up to Freedom/Capitalism, I was wondering if you have any other/better idea's of why this is.

[Lysistrata]

Okay I'll give this a shot without taking 3 hours and boring you to death...

 

Americans like to make the most money possible

The highest paid professions are Medical and Legal

It takes years of education and training

Professors that educate and train demand millions to create doctors and lawyers

The students that become doctors and lawyers demand millions

Law requires hospitals to treat people regardless of ability to pay

Everybody knows this, so why should they pay for insurance?

They pass the cost on to those that do pay

Insurance companies are the ones that pay

Those that are insured pay the ever increasing premiums to insurance companies

Anyone can sue anyone for anything

Lawyers love law suits

Doctors must pay for malpractice insurance

Law suits cost billions

There are not enough people paying insurance companies to cover the cost of deadbeats and lawsuits

 

Let's create Obamacare!

Obamacare attempts to force people to buy insurance by law

It guarantees insurance companies will be paid by taxpayers

Insurance companies jack up prices as high as they can... why not? Everyone has to pay!!!

Deductibles are so high no one can afford to use their insurance that they are forced by law to purchase

No healthy people will pay for it... they just pay the fine

This of course, does not work... end result is Obamacare death spiral. That's where we are now.

[onbekende]

excellent reasoning on why ACA did what it did, now should the US shoot down the ACA or perhaps start a cultureshift in the medical (and legal if you so desire) culture of being money hoarding vulture's?

 

you correctly point out some flaws in both systems (ACA and historical) but you seem to just want to rant about the ACA system flaws. We call this "fighting against the beerquay", doing something you know won't either fix or mitigate the underlying issue.

[Lysistrata]

excellent reasoning on why ACA did what it did, now should the US shoot down the ACA or perhaps start a cultureshift in the medical (and legal if you so desire) culture of being money hoarding vulture's?

 

you correctly point out some flaws in both systems (ACA and historical) but you seem to just want to rant about the ACA system flaws. We call this "fighting against the beerquay", doing something you know won't either fix or mitigate the underlying issue.

I rant about the ACA flaws because it's bad law that does nothing to curb the real problem... the cost of healthcare. If we had restaurants that people can come in, chow down, and not have to pay for it... we would not have any restaurants anymore. That's how our system is working, and too many people are getting it free when the rest of us are paying an extra mortgage payment.

 

The way to handle it is for Government to get the hell out of the healthcare business. Create competition in every corner of the market. Where there is money to be made, we have the brains to make all these problems profitable. We have credit card companies dishing out millions in credit every day to millions of people that have no intention of ever paying it back... create on the spot credit to anyone needing a hospital. The last resort should be Medicaid... supplied by the State. But really I guess it comes down to the Federal Government never having the courage to ever say "Well... That's not our problem"... I would love to hear them say that from time to time.

[ccabal86]

Well, the core problem here is not solved. You said it yourself that healthcare is a VERY costly business. If you put the whole system on capitalistic grounds, nobody will treat patients whose treatment is simply not profitable. And there are some medical conditions that even wealthy people could't afford to pay the treatment for on their own.

You also seem to miss the broader issue here, and namely the strong connection between general productivity and employee health.

[Lysistrata]

Well, the core problem here is not solved. You said it yourself that healthcare is a VERY costly business. If you put the whole system on capitalistic grounds, nobody will treat patients whose treatment is simply not profitable. And there are some medical conditions that even wealthy people could't afford to pay the treatment for on their own.

You also seem to miss the broader issue here, and namely the strong connection between general productivity and employee health.

Yes, it's a very costly business. Somewhere, somehow, somebody came up with the massively moronic idea that everyone is entitled to take part in this very costly business, no matter what. Socialism does not work... it never has and never will. Life is an expensive endeavor, and if people are not interested in investing in their own life and taking responsibility for their own healthcare... then I have absolutely no problem telling them that they are shit outta luck. I'm fully in favor of State supplied Medicaid... which the coverage will include bandages and large quantities of pain medication, that's about it. If you need expensive treatment to keep you alive, then you better have a plan to pay those that offer that service.

 

If I end up with a life threatening illness tomorrow that I can't afford to make it through without destroying everything I have built for my family... then you will receive a short goodbye here, with my gratitude for many good times... that's about it. You will not see me bending systems to get other people to pay for what is happening to me. I'll go out in style.

[ccabal86]

Well, yes, I'm not saying the state should cover even the most expensive treatments for everyone for free. It clearly doesn't work. I'm just saying that the health industry needs sufficient oversight and regularion to make sure that evreyone gets a fair shake for their money.

If you let capitalism reign free, you will see people dying because their treatment would bring a net loss of $20 the insurance company. Or because paying the legal fees would be $10 cheaper than paying their actual coverage

[onbekende]

Besides, last I checked the "socialist" Europe isn't raking up debt due to healthcare, it is due to capitalism and its stockmarket...

[Chaplain of death]

excellent reasoning on why ACA did what it did, now should the US shoot down the ACA or perhaps start a cultureshift in the medical (and legal if you so desire) culture of being money hoarding vulture's?

 

 

The ACA is a failure because the ACA got mired in bullshit. Yes it was passed by a super majority but every single version of the law that passed through Congress got the same Fillibuster treatment. Random asinine measures that had nothing to do with the law being added to it until it was watered down so far to this shit version we have now, and only then did it get through. I don't think the ACA is the answer, the ACA is broken and flawed. Personally I'd prefer we just pulled our heads out of our asses and went with Universal health care like most other developed countries use at this point. 

 

Socialism already exists in our society in a multitude of ways so please Lys, stop pretending its the devil and that we have nothing to do with it and should have nothing to do with it. Socialism is a Utopian idea that requires (in my opinion) a moral society. This world has never seen a moral society, and likely never will because people put themselves first. We'd rather go on that family vacation across the country for the hell of it than concern ourselves with the people in our own country who are homeless, without food, without necessary medical attention. Capitalism can work just fine so long as it is properly adhered to, however, we do not properly adhere to capitalism either. Corporations band together and lobby in the capital and in state capitols to keep minimum wage down so that wage competition isn't as prevalent, they work together to price fix. The United States is a country that is bought and paid for by the corporations. Everything is done for their benefit. 

[Shahenshah]

[Shahenshah]

Lys advocates pure capitalism, and supporting corporations, but balks at the thought of the same corporations outsourcing labour and production.  It's only capitalistic that you utilize the most efficient means of production. Some(millions) people will be happy to earn 1/10th of US minimum wage to do more and for longer hours, they net corporations more profits, therefore, they move the jobs there, much to anger of our friend.

 

TBH, Lys, you subscribe to your notions, very selectively. 

 

Regarding going out in style,  that's your choice, I suppose you have the luxury of that choice. But not everyone may have that luxury.  You gotta reflect that your path in life is not the only path and it's not the only right path, not saying it's wrong in anyway. Also we'd rather prefer you hang in here. I do, in general, strongly subscribe to your idea of only you can change your own circumstances, instead of believing the world's out to get you/need moar govt support. Simple principles to success in life: Hard Work and Knowledge (Can be in form of Specialised education, information, networking etc). But, Lys, thing is, some people dont have the environment to contemplate those principles due to shit cards they may have been dealt at the time of birth, it could be illness, broken households, psycho parents, crime, so much other stuff.  Ye, it's not your fault, but I would'nt mind donating some of my income to help fix that shit, maybe it's super inefficient :govt: but if no one else is willing to do it, (corporations wont under pure capitalism) i'd go with inefficient social service vs zero social service. 

[Lysistrata]

Also we'd rather prefer you hang in here.

I love you too Shah!