32 replies to this topic

[DeathMerchant]

but why isn't this terrorism? Clearly a politically motivated attack...whats up? 

 
Last i checked, terrorism is only allowed on religious grounds, haven't you heared >_>
 
 

 

Not to diminish the responce and actions of said 2 officers, they did only shoot back AFTER he seems to have emptied his magazine correct? I
have no idea about possible other weapons this person may have carried, but this does indicate that regardless of armed presence the actual shooting and victims would have been the same.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that even if armed security wasn't there the exact same amount of people would have been injured/or killed? Because I can guarantee you that if armed officers weren't there. We wouldn't be reading about multiple injuries, we would be reading about multiple fatalities.
 

 
You kinda got it, hence I asked "Did he have any other weapons?". From reports thusfar I have gathered that reaction from armed officers happended after him shooting, as happens in most cases of shootings. We will likely never know what would have transpired if the attacker wasn't incapacitated as fast as he was, I am rather just trying to burst the bubble of the idea that any armed presence could totally prevent such incident from happening.

I've always been a firm believer that you are never safe, only safer. Carrying a firearm doesn't make one immune from attack or bodily harm, but it could very well mean the difference between being carried out in a stretcher vs a body bag.

[ccabal86]

At times, I feel burdened to apologize for actions of people who have nothing to do with me or my religion or my beliefs but who act in the name of my religion. 

I don't know you well enough to know how you live your life... by the way you answered the question, I will just assume you are Muslim and follow the central text of Islam, The Quran. To me, Islam is a man made organization, a "club", a bunch of people that like hanging out together and doing the same thing. I myself, do not attach myself to any of these clubs. I don't want to hang out with any of them, or do the same things as they do. I also strongly believe that I should not be killed because I don't want to join the club.
 
I am on a Bowling team and participate in several leagues. To do this I must join the club. The club is the United States Bowling Congress, USBC for short. If any faction of the USBC began killing people for not bowling... we would have a big problem with that, and those people would either be dead or in prison. We would protect our club, or dissolve it... and before you say "it's not the same thing"... to me it is. It's just another club.
 
We don't want you to feel burdened to apologize for the actions of some of the members of your club. We do expect you to control your club, or dissolve it. Islam must take responsibility for what their club members do... and just saying "It's not me" is not enough. This may be a simple way to say it, but it's probably the best way for you to understand how most of the USA feels about it. If Islam needs help to control the club members... Islam needs to ask for it, because we will not just ignore it.

That bowling analogy is actually really good, but needs to be amended. The extreme bowlers not only kill people who do not play, but other club members too for not bowling well enough. They expecially hate those that also bowl, but are using a slight variation of some of the rules.

They justify their acts by referencing the club's by-laws, which is a jumbled mess, and more than a few articles read exactly like the extreme bowlers claim. Unfortunatlely changing or reinterpreting the by-laws is also strictly forbidden. Leaving the club is not really possible either, and usually draws the ire of the other club members.

[Lysistrata]

That bowling analogy is actually really good, but needs to be amended. The extreme bowlers not only kill people who do not play, but other club members too for not bowling well enough. They expecially hate those that also bowl, but are using a slight variation of some of the rules. They justify their acts by referencing the club's by-laws, which is a jumbled mess, and more than a few articles read exactly like the extreme bowlers claim. Unfortunatlely changing or reinterpreting the by-laws is also strictly forbidden. Leaving the club is not really possible either, and usually draws the ire of the other club members.

Well said Brother. I left out all the reasons it should be dissolved because I would rather hear them from Shah himself, and what he, and his fellow club members intend to do about it. My best guess is they will just hide, keep denying they are one of them, and try hard to avoid being their next target. Two clubs that had to be minimized to virtual non-existence were the Nazi's and the KKK. We have done a pretty good job at keeping Satanic cults tamped down as well. It's hard for a club to repair a bad reputation. I'll stick with bowling... it's fun, easy to live with, and doesn't attract so much anger.

[Niels]

 

 

 

Someone makes a disingenuous point that "my side doesn't do this" gets told their point is disingenuous.   If someone doesn't want to be told off for making a disingenuous point, they shouldn't make one.     Violent extremism knows all ideologies, and anyone who claims otherwise is wrong.

Yes, I understand now. Republicans winning elections is considered violent extremism. So, to even the score Progressives need to destroy cities, poison the media, disrespect the President, hate your country, incite violence, and refuse to comply with the law. Yes, we are obviously cut from the same cloth. Until you guys can win elections... this is where you will be. Good luck with that.

 

 

No - that is not what I said at all.  But I'm sure you enjoyed turning over all those strawmen you set up for yourself.

Post #2 in this thread is essentially:

Leftists: One evil
Rightists: Zero evil

See, they are awful and we are not.

My comments at all points here have been to say that:

 All ideologies: Many evils

 

My reminder was that every ideology has had violent extremists (for right-wing groups, this has included anti-government bombings and anti-abortion shootings) - it is not the exclusive domain of any group and anyone claiming such is both wrong and delusional.  FFS, there are violent extremist Buddhists in this world.

Somehow you decided that this meant that I was saying Republicans winning elections was violent extremism.

 

That suggests a really really poor ability to read.

[Lysistrata]

I am outraged! We must crush the violent extremist Buddhists! They are forcing me to be really really poor at reading!

 

There are University Professors in the US that are lecturing to their students that the election of Donald Trump was a Republican terrorist attack.

 

The entire climate change club has declared that Donald Trump is killing everyone on the planet by pulling out of the Paris Accord.

 

There is currently a lavish production of "Julius Caesar" going on in Central Park New York where Caesar is replaced by Donald Trump, and horrifically assassinated in full color.

 

The entire Democrat Party has declared that repealing the failed Obamacare law, that forces people to buy health insurance they can't even afford to use, would kill the US population.

 

Hollywood Progressives are playing out their ISIS inspired fantasies by posting pictures of themselves beheading Donald Trump because they think it's funny... and everyone is just shocked... SHOCKED!... that a Bernie guy guns down some Republicans.

 

There is so much more I should list. Progressives have changed from mere opposition, to pretty much the most disgusting people I have ever had the misfortune to know. Let's blame my poor reading skills.

 

Pointing at previous, or other, bad behavior as some kind of excuse for current bad behavior deserves a special kind of scorn.

[LordSunday]

I am outraged! We must crush the violent extremist Buddhists! They are forcing me to be really really poor at reading!

 

There are University Professors in the US that are lecturing to their students that the election of Donald Trump was a Republican terrorist attack.

 

The entire climate change club has declared that Donald Trump is killing everyone on the planet by pulling out of the Paris Accord.

 

There is currently a lavish production of "Julius Caesar" going on in Central Park New York where Caesar is replaced by Donald Trump, and horrifically assassinated in full color.

 

The entire Democrat Party has declared that repealing the failed Obamacare law, that forces people to buy health insurance they can't even afford to use, would kill the US population.

 

Hollywood Progressives are playing out their ISIS inspired fantasies by posting pictures of themselves beheading Donald Trump because they think it's funny... and everyone is just shocked... SHOCKED!... that a Bernie guy guns down some Republicans.

 

There is so much more I should list. Progressives have changed from mere opposition, to pretty much the most disgusting people I have ever had the misfortune to know. Let's blame my poor reading skills.

 

Pointing at previous, or other, bad behavior as some kind of excuse for current bad behavior deserves a special kind of scorn.

 

Lys, thank you for vocalizing just a fraction of the many problems that are plaguing our nation... I saw the headline about the Julius Caesar thing a few days ago and I couldn't even click the article I was so outraged.

"Progressives" are out of hand, and the problem is that the "politically correct" establishment is too afraid to deny the beast that all they manage to continue doing is feeding it more fuel. In another thread I posted about the Democratic Professor under fire from the very minorities he supports because he didn't want to participate in an event that forced all whites out of a public space... The sad truth of that situation is that the university cannot dare stand up to these students, lest they be called racist bigots and supporters of white supremacy. But the minute they give in and fire the professor, they feed the fire of Liberals and enable them to continue with these outrageous acts.

Those Democrats who are actually honest and true in their beliefs of equality, these minority groups are playing you all for the fool. You're on the wrong side here.

[Niels]

I am outraged! We must crush the violent extremist Buddhists! They are forcing me to be really really poor at reading!

It does take a special kind of reading comprehension failure to convert "right-wing terrorism also exists" into "Republicans winning elections is considered violent extremism."
 

 

There are University Professors in the US that are lecturing to their students that the election of Donald Trump was a Republican terrorist attack.

 

I'm sure there have been.  Just as there were many who declared Obama a traitor (a remember, since treason is a capital punishment in the United States, this was equivalent to calling for the president to be executed.

 

There is currently a lavish production of "Julius Caesar" going on in Central Park New York where Caesar is replaced by Donald Trump, and horrifically assassinated in full color.

This is selective whining, considering that there was a production in 2012 where Caesar was replaced by Obama.  (The production of the Obama version even garnered a positive review from The American Conservative.  Liberals apparently didn't care too much one way or the other.)

 

 

The entire Democrat Party has declared that repealing the failed Obamacare law, that forces people to buy health insurance they can't even afford to use, would kill the US population.

Remember when Obamacare was being discussed in 2009 and "the entire Republic* Party" declared that "death panels" would kill grandma.
I'm sure those death panels will be here any day now to prove that the proponents of that theory weren't hyperventilating. /sarcasm

* - used because apparently you think there is something called the "Democrat Party" in the United States.

 

 

Hollywood Progressives are playing out their ISIS inspired fantasies by posting pictures of themselves beheading Donald Trump because they think it's funny...

I'm aware that Kathy Griffin did this.  Were there others?  You did you the plural "Progressives."
She lost pre-arragned gigs and was fired from her job by CNN.  Pretty much what you would expect for doing something so stupid and heinous.

By contrast, Ted Nugent talked openly about wishing to shoot President Obama and Hillary Clinton (Nugent wielded two machine guns while raging, "Obama, he's a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun. Hey Hillary, you might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch.").  Unlike Griffin who was punished, Nugent was invited to be a guest at the White House after Trump became president.

 

 

Pointing at previous, or other, bad behavior as some kind of excuse for current bad behavior deserves a special kind of scorn.

I never said anything about excusing the bad behavior of Steve Scalise's shooter.  I did push back against the notion that only one type of person in this country can be an extremist.

[Lysistrata]

Lys, thank you for vocalizing just a fraction of the many problems that are plaguing our nation...

You're welcome.

"Republicans winning elections is considered violent extremism."

I'm sure there have been.

You declare I can't read, and then confirm what I said in your next statement.

Just as there were many who declared Obama a traitor

Obama allowed guns to be illegally exported to drug cartels in Mexico, resulting in the death of a border patrol agent.

Obama allowed the IRS to illegally and indefinitely stall vital tax benefits to Conservative groups that opposed his policies.

Pulled out of Iraq which created ISIS.

Paid terrorists for Bowe Bergdahl.

Iran deal.

Paris Climate Accord.

Interfering in Israel election.

Benghazi was obviously caused by an offensive Muslim video.

Castro is suddenly our best buddy.

Bradley Manning released.

Mass amnesty for illegal aliens.

Releasing drug dealers from prison... need more treasonous acts?

Democrat Party

I do this on purpose... got ya I love my Republic, so that doesn't bother me at all.

I'm aware that Kathy Griffin did this.  Were there others?  You did you the plural "Progressives."

There were dozens of copy cats. I won't waste any of my time looking.

By contrast, Ted Nugent talked openly about wishing to shoot President Obama and Hillary Clinton

Whatever Nugent has said and done, he did so to his exclusive audience that pay to hear him say and do it. 

[onbekende]

 

 

 
 

 

Not to diminish the responce and actions of said 2 officers, they did only shoot back AFTER he seems to have emptied his magazine correct? I
have no idea about possible other weapons this person may have carried, but this does indicate that regardless of armed presence the actual shooting and victims would have been the same.
 

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that even if armed security wasn't there the exact same amount of people would have been injured/or killed? Because I can guarantee you that if armed officers weren't there. We wouldn't be reading about multiple injuries, we would be reading about multiple fatalities.
 
 

 
You kinda got it, hence I asked "Did he have any other weapons?". From reports thusfar I have gathered that reaction from armed officers happended after him shooting, as happens in most cases of shootings. We will likely never know what would have transpired if the attacker wasn't incapacitated as fast as he was, I am rather just trying to burst the bubble of the idea that any armed presence could totally prevent such incident from happening.

I've always been a firm believer that you are never safe, only safer. Carrying a firearm doesn't make one immune from attack or bodily harm, but it could very well mean the difference between being carried out in a stretcher vs a body bag.

 

 

Not many people die from the 5th and last bullet hitting them, while firearms (or any weapon) may stave off any wrongdo-ers against your person, they will be very limited in keeping you alive itself.

 

 

And Lys once again proves that his right wing echo chamber is just as "they wish death opun us" as the left wing echo chamber is (or any other echo chamber). Half your talking points are rubbish nobody on the left beliefs anyway and the other half is trying to outrage over a nitpicked little thing that personally doesn't stroke with your "reality".

[Lysistrata]

This is selective whining, considering that there was a production in 2012 where Caesar was replaced by Obama.

Sorry, I got so excited listing all those Obama atrocities that I completely forgot to address this.

 

I have never heard of this. I mean... never. I have never even heard of this theater. So really you're pointing at a tree that fell in the forest, and no one was even around to hear it. Another demonstration of using something awful to justify something awful. Did it even happen?... maybe more fake news? I don't know... but taking credit for this means Progressives can't even come up with an original idea. You do notice that I have never implied that there is anything illegal about any of this? The point is... you can say it, and you can do it... but you really shouldn't... not when things have gone just too far. Time to give it a rest. People are getting hurt.

[Niels]

 

 

 

Just as there were many who declared Obama a traitor

Obama allowed guns to be illegally exported to drug cartels in Mexico, resulting in the death of a border patrol agent.

Obama allowed the IRS to illegally and indefinitely stall vital tax benefits to Conservative groups that opposed his policies.

Pulled out of Iraq which created ISIS.

Paid terrorists for Bowe Bergdahl.

Iran deal.

Paris Climate Accord.

Interfering in Israel election.

Benghazi was obviously caused by an offensive Muslim video.

Castro is suddenly our best buddy.

Bradley Manning released.

Mass amnesty for illegal aliens.

Releasing drug dealers from prison... need more treasonous acts?

I don't see a court case resulting in a conviction of treason.
"Treason" does not equal "did things I didn't like."

 

 

 

 

By contrast, Ted Nugent talked openly about wishing to shoot President Obama and Hillary Clinton

Whatever Nugent has said and done, he did so to his exclusive audience that pay to hear him say and do it. 

 

You'll have to explain why a closed audience makes a difference.
The Secret Service didn't think it was a laughing matter: they decided to pay Nugent a visit.

 

 

 

This is selective whining, considering that there was a production in 2012 where Caesar was replaced by Obama.

Sorry, I got so excited listing all those Obama atrocities that I completely forgot to address this.

 

I have never heard of this. I mean... never. I have never even heard of this theater. So really you're pointing at a tree that fell in the forest, and no one was even around to hear it. Another demonstration of using something awful to justify something awful. Did it even happen?... maybe more fake news? I don't know... but taking credit for this means Progressives can't even come up with an original idea. You do notice that I have never implied that there is anything illegal about any of this? The point is... you can say it, and you can do it... but you really shouldn't... not when things have gone just too far. Time to give it a rest. People are getting hurt.

 

Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  It means you didn't hear about it.  And it did happen, and people saw it, and they had thoughts about it; that's why I was able to provide references.

I do enjoy that even conservatives are calling people such as yourself who are suddenly conserved with a rendition of a Shakespeare play "whiny snowflakes."

[Shahenshah]

"Obama allowed guns to be illegally exported to drug cartels in Mexico, resulting in the death of a border patrol agent."

No shit.

[Shahenshah]

At times, I feel burdened to apologize for actions of people who have nothing to do with me or my religion or my beliefs but who act in the name of my religion.

I don't know you well enough to know how you live your life... by the way you answered the question, I will just assume you are Muslim and follow the central text of Islam, The Quran. To me, Islam is a man made organization, a "club", a bunch of people that like hanging out together and doing the same thing. I myself, do not attach myself to any of these clubs. I don't want to hang out with any of them, or do the same things as they do. I also strongly believe that I should not be killed because I don't want to join the club.

I am on a Bowling team and participate in several leagues. To do this I must join the club. The club is the United States Bowling Congress, USBC for short. If any faction of the USBC began killing people for not bowling... we would have a big problem with that, and those people would either be dead or in prison. We would protect our club, or dissolve it... and before you say "it's not the same thing"... to me it is. It's just another club.

We don't want you to feel burdened to apologize for the actions of some of the members of your club. We do expect you to control your club, or dissolve it. Islam must take responsibility for what their club members do... and just saying "It's not me" is not enough. This may be a simple way to say it, but it's probably the best way for you to understand how most of the USA feels about it. If Islam needs help to control the club members... Islam needs to ask for it, because we will not just ignore it.

That bowling analogy is actually really good, but needs to be amended. The extreme bowlers not only kill people who do not play, but other club members too for not bowling well enough. They expecially hate those that also bowl, but are using a slight variation of some of the rules.

They justify their acts by referencing the club's by-laws, which is a jumbled mess, and more than a few articles read exactly like the extreme bowlers claim. Unfortunatlely changing or reinterpreting the by-laws is also strictly forbidden. Leaving the club is not really possible either, and usually draws the ire of the other club members.

Poor anology.

It is fundamentally flawed because it assumes same rules apply for everyone, but obviously they dont. See one team has rigged the entire thing, bowling Congress can't do shit, it's a pony show. Members of one team can end up destroying entirety of other clubs, leagues and their facilities and get away with it. However if a member of another team does shady shit then the entire team is expected to owe up to it, even tho they didn't approve or had nothing to do with it, oh and later we find out the guy doing shady shit had recieved help from the most powerful club which is now holding the rest of the team responsible for the actions of shady member.
But wait! some of the teamembers who could reign in on the shady dude were beaten up just right before by the same ol big club and so are out of the scene, just before all the shady shit went down.

So, bohoo.