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Ironic #MeToo hypocrisy


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#21
onbekende

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Look, we're men. Its natural for us to think w/ our dicks which is why we get into a lot of trouble. Its Evolutionary fuckery w/ us. We won't stop staring at women cuz we can't.

 

I mean here's the thing. If some women cat called and ogled at my ugly face and body, I'd be real happy bros. I won't mind women checking my ugly face/body out.

 

And this is why we can't have nice things, people equating "a look" to "rape some teenage movie stars".


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#22
Rafay

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Besides, something being commonplace doesn't make it acceptable, and there's jack shit that is OK about a culture where there is the expectation or unspoken requirement to perform sexual favours. 

 

Exactly. But the thing I was trying to point out is that people who accept having sex for a getting something in return are equally as responsible as those wanting it for this culture. 


And this is why we can't have nice things, people equating "a look" to "rape some teenage movie stars".
 

 

Thanks.


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#23
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Look, we're men. Its natural for us to think w/ our dicks which is why we get into a lot of trouble. Its Evolutionary fuckery w/ us. We won't stop staring at women cuz we can't.

 

I mean here's the thing. If some women cat called and ogled at my ugly face and body, I'd be real happy bros. I won't mind women checking my ugly face/body out.

 

And this is why we can't have nice things, people equating "a look" to "rape some teenage movie stars".

 

i dont think thats what he meant. I think he was pointing out the hypocrisy in it.  if a guy cat calls a girl, hes a pig but if a girl does it to a guy everyone gets all excited and thinks its cool.  there is a south park episode that highlights this where some kid sleeps with his teachers, but because its a boy, the cops reaction to it is saying "nice" and giving high fives.  

 

its just like this story.  if it was a guy actor who did this and the girl was a teen it would get so much more press, but because the actor was a woman, its barely covered for a minute 



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#24
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Clearly Lys demands sex from his wife. Cause that is what marriage is, a license to shackle someone to your whims.

Your opinions are fair, but this crossed a line my friend. If hurting me personally was your intention... congratulations.


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#25
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I don’t have to sauce that #2, there are plenty of others people believeng it without it. This excellent essay Just from the top of my head comes to mind, but I could dig up tons more I’ve read, if I thought about it: https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/12/06/the-warlock-hunt/

As for finding some common ground with Tarana Burke, absolutely, it’s a great statement! Of course, I understand that doesn’t automatically mean I absolutely 100% agree with everything Tarana Burke said in her life, a fact that eludes a mind blowing number of people.

EDIT: Ok, so I just went on my “favorite” site Buzzfeed and started scrolling through the feed because somehow I got the feeling that I would soon come over an “outrageous” sexual harassment story, and boy, was I right.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/andy-gross-purdue-tweets

TLDR: Some poor comedian schmuck (never heard of him) was probably low on cash and took a college gig. Result: accused of sexual harassment and having to repeatedly apologize to get out of the massive shitstorm. Not a moral panic, right...

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#26
Rand0m her0

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Besides, something being commonplace doesn't make it acceptable, and there's jack shit that is OK about a culture where there is the expectation or unspoken requirement to perform sexual favours. 

 

Exactly. But the thing I was trying to point out is that people who accept having sex for a getting something in return are equally as responsible as those wanting it for this culture. 


 

 

And this is why we can't have nice things, people equating "a look" to "rape some teenage movie stars".
 

 

Thanks.

 

 

And now we're back to "and they deserve it anyways"

 

When someone's thousands of dollars in debt and years in the whole in an attempt to build a career, giving into extortion, or even simply pressure to keep quiet in order to not have their life or career ruined is totes the same as sexually assaulting a person. When someone locks some 20 year old intern in a room with them and forces them to watch them masterbate, and then threatens them about saying anything, the intern is totally equally culpable 


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#27
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When someone's thousands of dollars in debt and years in the whole in an attempt to build a career, giving into extortion, or even simply pressure to keep quiet in order to not have their life or career ruined is totes the same as sexually assaulting a person. When someone locks some 20 year old intern in a room with them and forces them to watch them masterbate, and then threatens them about saying anything, the intern is totally equally culpable 

 

If something bad happened to me I'd report it at once. You were a victim so go to police/courts. If you're being quiet then you are accepting that nothing bad happened. And these "celebrities" ruin their lives themselves with their addictions and high speed lifestyle. 


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#28
Rand0m her0

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When someone's thousands of dollars in debt and years in the whole in an attempt to build a career, giving into extortion, or even simply pressure to keep quiet in order to not have their life or career ruined is totes the same as sexually assaulting a person. When someone locks some 20 year old intern in a room with them and forces them to watch them masterbate, and then threatens them about saying anything, the intern is totally equally culpable 

 

If something bad happened to me I'd report it at once. You were a victim so go to police/courts. If you're being quiet then you are accepting that nothing bad happened. And these "celebrities" ruin their lives themselves with their addictions and high speed lifestyle. 

 

 

So wait, i'm not even sure where to do here. Are you not familiar with what blackmail and extortion are? Do you think that because some prominent celebrities are addicts, that random interns deserve to be raped? 


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#29
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So wait, i'm not even sure where to do here. Are you not familiar with what blackmail and extortion are?

 

I am!! I'm asking why are you giving into blackmail and extortion? There is no way out from that cycle. Once you give into blackmailing you're stuck there. Then the person who's abusing holds all cards. 


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#30
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So wait, i'm not even sure where to do here. Are you not familiar with what blackmail and extortion are?

 

I am!! I'm asking why are you giving into blackmail and extortion? There is no way out from that cycle. Once you give into blackmailing you're stuck there. Then the person who's abusing holds all cards. 

 

 

Well it's absolutely fantastic that your in a position in your life where either you're not at risk being suddenly dismissed from your job for speaking out against your boss, or that you're financially secure enough to be able to handle the fallout from this. 

 

Not everyone has this luxury, and these assholes tend to not target people they're incapable of threatening. For many people the choice may be between shutting up or not making next month's rent, especially in the wonderful world that is at will employment. 


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#31
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Sure some people willingly traded sex for roles or advancement but they shouldn't even be part of the discussion when you consider the actual victims who were forced or attacked. This thread has been eye opening and I now see why we are a society are having such a hard time following the rules that Bill and Ted laid out for us.

 

1, Is anyone really surprised that sexual abuse is widespread in places like the friggin MOVIE INDUSTRY? Anyone with half a brain knew that already, even if sunlight can help somewhat. Why the outrage now, and not before (Woody Allan, Polanski, etc...)?
 

 

Just because it is happening doesn't make it right.

 

2, Of course, the whole ordeal turned into a moral panic, because why wouldn’t it? While some guys like Weinstein are obviously dirty as hell, now a single, unproven accusation or awkward date is enough to have someone fired or his career destroyed. As lys pointed out, maybe it’s not such a great idea to abandon the “innocent until proven guilty” principle
 

I am not saying you are wrong but do you have any examples to back that up?

3, This entire thing was framed as a gender issue, when in fact (as we can see here) is clearly a power issue. It’s how Homo Sapiens works I’m afraid, give it power, and it will abuse it. We’re a horrible species, but again, this too shouldn’t really come as a surprise to anyone.

 

It is a power issue but lets not forget the men that are part of the #metoo movement. Terry Crews for example was sexually assaulted and the man who did it got away with it.

 

 

 

 

Also guys no personal attacks. It doesn't strengthen your argument nor does it look good upon your character. It is okay to disagree


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#32
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I am!! I'm asking why are you giving into blackmail and extortion? There is no way out from that cycle. Once you give into blackmailing you're stuck there. Then the person who's abusing holds all cards. 

 

 

Fear is an extremely powerful tool. In a business like being an actor someone who is well connected could literally make it so you cannot work, and you would have no proof or recourse to stop them from doing it. So if you were to deny someone with this power you wouldn't have a career anymore and there is nothing that you can do about it.

 

For a moment I want you to pretend you are an actress, you went to school for acting, you are quite good and you were lucky enough to be naturally attractive on top of that you spent your entire life up until now building a solid portfolio and casting directors like you. You are cast in a movie but as a formality you have meet with a producer because he wants to make sure you are right for the role so he invites you to dinner with the casting director. Once dinner is over the casting director leaves and the producer asks you to his room to go through a set of lines, and you don't want to say no because he is your boss. You go up there and start the lines but then he wants you to strip or he starts feeling you up. Here is your decision you leave and hope nothing comes from it or you worry that if you leave you at the least lose your part. Since you have an anti black mailing stance you leave and first thing in the morning you get a call and are told that you aren't right for the part.

 

From here you probably think whatever there are more parts what does one movie matter? You are a trained, experienced and good looking actress with a good reputation. Months go by and despite doing hundreds of auditions lesser actresses get the parts you were going for, and your agent finally finds out you were blacklisted because you turned down that producer. You cant tell on him because you have no proof, its your word against his. This is where you discover your word isn't as good because the producer will do anything to discredit you including saying that you are just angry about being fired for incompetence while citing your act of roles since then. So here you are unable to follow your dream and without any marketable skills. Sure you can get a job in a theater but that wont pay you anything, or perhaps you can get lucky and get on a tv show but when you are blacklisted then tv might be a pipe dream as well.

 

 

I guess what I am getting at is try to see the world from the victim's point of view and never blame them. Even if the victim is partially to blame the predator never should have done it to begin with.


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#33
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It is a power issue but lets not forget the men that are part of the #metoo movement. Terry Crews for example was sexually assaulted and the man who did it got away with it.

I mean, just look at the reaction terry crew got. forced out of the expendables, endless amounts of harassment online, had venit using his connections with producers and his clients to threaten Terry, etc.


If that's the kind of shit kicking terry crews takes, just imagine how it goes down for some mid 20s nobody.


Hell it doesn't even take active threats. Shitty mc shitface in a senior position gets their jollies by cornering people and flashing them. You report that shit to HR and what happens next? In a good world HR starts investigating, pulls camera footage, talks to other people who's worked with them, finds a pattern of behaviour and takes action. But we don't give in a good world, and HR isn't there for your benefit so it's entirely possible they "investigate" and decide that the best way to protect the company is to fire your ass. Or god forbid your dealing with some actively malacious fuckwhits who pull out shit fuckery with "performance improvement plans" in order to dismiss you with cause, cause  hey now they have a defense against a retaliation suit and can put up a fight over EI. So worst case you get fired, and when your new employer calls up your previous employer they say "So and so was dismissed and is not eligible for rehire" 

 

If you've got a family to feed, you wanna roll those dice? 

 

Hell jfc just take a look at how some parts of society will leap up to defend convicted rapists. Remember convicted rapist Brock Turner who got off with a slap on his wrist for raping someone. Remember who we  had all sort of people giving his victim shit because his being a convicted rapist would "ruin his life" and it's just not fair to do that to him. 


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#34
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I'll take the proud me too movement serious when they lock up Bill Clinton, when they put Kevin Spacey on trail, and stop saying that a female teacher had sex with a minor and start using the word rape.
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#35
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I'll take the proud me too movement serious when they lock up Bill Clinton, when they put Kevin Spacey on trail, and stop saying that a female teacher had sex with a minor and start using the word rape.

 

PC  culture tends to not consider men, especially white men victims despite facts against it. This movement is far from perfect but its what we have. Perhaps it can becomes something better or a movement that is more ideal sprouts out of it.


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#36
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“I am not saying you are wrong but do you have any examples to back that up?”

I can give you an example from just a handshake away:

A senior associate at an international law firm complimented a secretary in the morning by saying “Wow, you look absolutely great in that dress”, then went into a meeting. When he finished, he was called into the Managing Partner’s office and was fired on the spot for sexual harassment. I don’t know him personally, but a friend of mine does, and I trust his word that that was it, nothing more.

There was probably more going on in the background (office politics), but this was a good enough justification to fire someone in 2018.

Had I lived in the US, I would probably just give up on complimenting people for anything, ever, especially females. Not out of fear, but out of sheer disgust for the idiocy of the zeitgeist. Sign me up for misanthropy!

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#37
onbekende

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For people moaning, thusfar the amount of attention this got in our press is about the same as the first story got. Perhaps you folks really need to think again with sensation drive news instead of actual news.

 

 

Clearly Lys demands sex from his wife. Cause that is what marriage is, a license to shackle someone to your whims.

Your opinions are fair, but this crossed a line my friend. If hurting me personally was your intention... congratulations.

 

It was a complete hyperbole from your "they should have expected it, and thus deserved it" line of reasoning. If you take personal hurt with this, expect that your lines did the same to many victims (both female as male) of such acts you just callously downplayed or victimblamed them for.

 

 

Let me even lament on a possible lawyer defence on this:

1) Argento gets intimitated/blackmailed/... into sexual acts with Weinstein

2) Argento rises up and beyond Weinsteins reach, stars together with Bennett in movie

3) they have an amicable relation and bumb into eachother the following years

4) comes into position of "power" over Bennett, who perhaps idolizes Argento for her success in movies

5) Stupid teenager flirting from Bennett gets answered by recently divorced Argento

6) Currently (as of now) single sexual encouter happens

7) Years later Bennett can better place this act and asks for $$ aid in legal battle against his family

8) Bennett tries to up the $$ desired, in part spurred on by his lawyer

9) Argento comes to term with what she did to Bennett, and together with Boudain, pays ~10% of demanded $$

10) Argento starts vocalizing with #metoo, possibly as a way to redeem herself with Bennett

 

 

PS. her name is hilarious.


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#38
Rand0m her0

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“I am not saying you are wrong but do you have any examples to back that up?”

I can give you an example from just a handshake away:

A senior associate at an international law firm complimented a secretary in the morning by saying “Wow, you look absolutely great in that dress”, then went into a meeting. When he finished, he was called into the Managing Partner’s office and was fired on the spot for sexual harassment. I don’t know him personally, but a friend of mine does, and I trust his word that that was it, nothing more.

There was probably more going on in the background (office politics), but this was a good enough justification to fire someone in 2018.

Had I lived in the US, I would probably just give up on complimenting people for anything, ever, especially females. Not out of fear, but out of sheer disgust for the idiocy of the zeitgeist. Sign me up for misanthropy!

 

 

I'd be willing to bet actual money that either never happened, did not happen as described, happened after a long chain of previous events that were not relayed to you or your friend, or some combination thereof. They may also have independently fallen victim of a firm with an up or out policy, and having been passed over promotion to partner multiple times was told to get out. 

 

Here's a more likely set of events: It was decided that this senior associate was not going to make partner, and therefore was going to go. The law firm, being run by asshats, saw the first flimsiest excuse to fire them for cause, because "you know, being fired for harassment is one of the things that guarantees EI doesn't pay out!" and then did so. 

 

This has literally nothing to do with the metoo movement or any other such thing. Exactly that sort of shit has been a favoured tactic of shitty employers for longer than any of us have been alive and is a product of the USA's pathetic to non existent protection for workers against such behaviour. You can go back to the 80s and find similar stories. 


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#39
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A senior associate at an international law firm complimented a secretary in the morning by saying “Wow, you look absolutely great in that dress”, then went into a meeting. When he finished, he was called into the Managing Partner’s office and was fired on the spot for sexual harassment. I don’t know him personally, but a friend of mine does, and I trust his word that that was it, nothing more.
 

 

Really sounds like there was a lot more going on. Without more knowledge on the situation it would be foolhardy to take that example as fact for a common practice. Also if someone got fired for such a harmless comment would open the door for a wrongful termination suit.

 

Also if you only have a single example that is iffy at best then I cant feel negative about a movement that tries to bring more professionalism in the workplace.


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#40
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“I am not saying you are wrong but do you have any examples to back that up?”

I can give you an example from just a handshake away:

A senior associate at an international law firm complimented a secretary in the morning by saying “Wow, you look absolutely great in that dress”, then went into a meeting. When he finished, he was called into the Managing Partner’s office and was fired on the spot for sexual harassment. I don’t know him personally, but a friend of mine does, and I trust his word that that was it, nothing more.

There was probably more going on in the background (office politics), but this was a good enough justification to fire someone in 2018.

Had I lived in the US, I would probably just give up on complimenting people for anything, ever, especially females. Not out of fear, but out of sheer disgust for the idiocy of the zeitgeist. Sign me up for misanthropy!

 

 

I'd be willing to bet actual money that either never happened, did not happen as described, happened after a long chain of previous events that were not relayed to you or your friend, or some combination thereof. They may also have independently fallen victim of a firm with an up or out policy, and having been passed over promotion to partner multiple times was told to get out. 

 

Here's a more likely set of events: It was decided that this senior associate was not going to make partner, and therefore was going to go. The law firm, being run by asshats, saw the first flimsiest excuse to fire them for cause, because "you know, being fired for harassment is one of the things that guarantees EI doesn't pay out!" and then did so. 

 

This has literally nothing to do with the metoo movement or any other such thing. Exactly that sort of shit has been a favoured tactic of shitty employers for longer than any of us have been alive and is a product of the USA's pathetic to non existent protection for workers against such behaviour. You can go back to the 80s and find similar stories. 

 

 

Maybe you're right, maybe not, we'll never know for sure. I just brought this as an example because it happened in my near(-ish) environment and not some similar story off the internet which there are plenty of. You're also right that it has nothing to do with the #metoo movement per se, however it has a lot to do with the moral panic which is happening in the wake of it - for reference of that happening, see the other 2 articles I linked.

 

EDIT: As I said, I'm not in the US, maybe I could bring more personal examples that aren't off the internet if I were. We've got much different problems here, though I honestly don't know which are worse.


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