The WHO is not a government. Your government declares a state of emergency. Hence, following the lead of the WHO is the result of weak leadership who does not want to be seen as taking responsibility for shutting down an economy! The problem is aggravated by a lack of facts. The Communist shithole, China, quarantines 85 million people and reports only 2k deaths!? What do you have to be smoking to buy that crap? During 2012 the US spent US$ 8666 per capita on health care, while China spent US$ 480. China had 1.5 doctors for every 10,000 persons, while the US had 2.7. At the same time Italy, Spain and Portugal had an average of 4! Yet, the countries hardest hit are the ones with most doctors per capita, and/or spends the most on medical care per capita! At the core of this spending is investment in information systems, and specifically systems that at linked nationally. The only countries that potentially rival the US in this are Japan and Germany. China is arse backward is this regard! Hence, the most accurate reporting on the disease is coming from the US, and not China! In rural China people drive hundreds of miles to get to a clinic. In Beijing they stand in line around the block to see a specialist! Yet, this self-same Communist rathole now tells the world how to handle the disease! And the Western media laps it up!

 

So, I had better things to do today than keep track of all the bitching and blaming. My position on all of this is if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. The solution is to start living again. The problem is anyone that is keeping that from happening.

 

The problem is the virus and (a part of) the solution is keeping it from spreading to vulnerable persons. If even those 2 notions are to hard to differentiate from "bitching and blaming", I'd guess you truely don't care, even with what you wrote next:

 

Here's a not so fun fact... Covid-19 has killed more people over 100 years of age than it has under 45.

 

The states are having to adjust their death tolls of Covid-19 to reflect those that died from Covid-19, and to not include those that died with Covid-19... some brilliant somebody figured out that there is a difference... duh.

 

I hear we should have a vaccine in July. My wife and I are caregivers to a 92 year old Air Force Veteran, and he's finally able to go somewhere other than a grocery store... he's happier. Plus my wife is going back to work starting Thursday, but her restaurant will only be operating at 25% capacity. I heard Texas is Phase 2 already, and Joe Biden won the Oregon Primary with 70% of the vote. That means 30% of the Democrats in Oregon didn't vote for Joe Biden when he's the only one left running. Say it ain't so Joe! 

Yeah COVID-19 is deadly for the vulnerable and weak, what a shocker for an ailment to disproportionate strike those people! Le gasp!

 

Various vaccine's are indeed already in production, meant to be stashed up until the green light can be given from various testings and control studies. If someone wants to inject you in July with "a vaccine", I would kick the fellow out of the door. Even if he is Trump personally!

 

That said, it seems I was wrong about possible positive benefits of (hydro)chloroquine. It isn't positive. A study of nearly 100k people (of which almost 15k receiving the drugs) has found NEGATIVE correlation between receiving the drugs and surviving COVID-19. But no worries, Trump will say this study is a hoax aswell like he said the study done at the VA was...

 

As for your stab at Biden, may I remind you that he isn't the sole person in those primaries and as such people can still protest vote. Heck Trump had the same deal after he was the sole candidate.

The thing at the end of the day china has the who in there pocket. I remember before nz's lockdown the chinese ambassador claiming we were being racist in introducing border restrictions because the who advised against it. Now look at nz now. As of today we only have 19 either active or probable cases of CCP virus and no new cases in a while. 97% have recovered and only 21 deaths. Hell if you look at our curve we had a spike and now its minimal.

oo must definatly China did some lobbying to look like the good guy after this is over, funny they immedeatly spend that on throwing once again Taiwan under the bus. Guess the politbureau's PR firm must be fuming at the politbureau's FA station

oo must definatly China did some lobbying to look like the good guy after this is over, funny they immedeatly spend that on throwing once again Taiwan under the bus. Guess the politbureau's PR firm must be fuming at the politbureau's FA station

One has to be a special kind of stupid to see China in a positive light after this one. Just to name the biggest bulletpoints:

• They lied/covered up the outbreak, and severity of the virus. They lied about the death toll and silenced whistleblowers.
• They paid off the WHO to delay classifying COVID as a pandemic and to continually praise China's handling of the situation
• Blocked Taiwan's participation in the WHO despite the pandemic
• Open racism in Guangzhou
• Pocketing humanitarian shipments of medical equipment from Europe in the early phase of the pandemic, then sending it back to Europe at exorbitant prices
• Selling medical equipment that is just a step up from literal shit in quality, at exorbitant prices, as well as demanding explicit statements of gratitude from states on top of it.

Yeah, so much for building political capital in the first place.

While I in no way want to side on China with this, the COVID outbreak was hardly silenced (in part indeed by doctors speaking out) and the building of several hospitals in mere weeks should have alerted anyone watching of the severity of this virus.

 

And about Taiwan, that is standard protocol tbh, not like it was actually worse during this pandemic. And lets say trying to stiffle the WHO of part of their funding to further the $$ influence China can have isn't really the brightest move out there...

 

For the rest, yep China being China. Shoddy knock-offs and all

Statistics are slowly coming out with death rates this year compared to data of previous years. It's a mixed bag. Here in Hungary, actually less people died than in the flu season last year, in other places the usual death rates have doubled, though it's a question of how much of that is due to COVID and how much from outher causes, e.g. postponed procedures/treatments due to the pandemic.

 

Yeah, I'm starting to feel that we collectively fucked the world economy for something that is only marginally worse than the flu. Certainly not worth the economic damage.

It's interesting, because people are taking better care of the hand hygiene etc we've seen a massive drop in many communicable diseases (norovirus etc). 

 

To be fair the UK was heading for a recession anyway so who knows what's brexit and what's corona. 

It's interesting, because people are taking better care of the hand hygiene etc we've seen a massive drop in many communicable diseases (norovirus etc).

At least that's a positive aspect of all this

 

It's interesting, because people are taking better care of the hand hygiene etc we've seen a massive drop in many communicable diseases (norovirus etc).

At least that's a positive aspect of all this

 

 

For some the real positive will be the economic crunch.

 

Yeah, I'm starting to feel that we collectively fucked the world economy for something that is only marginally worse than the flu. Certainly not worth the economic damage.

A giant asterick to this notion is the fact that under flu you got a near 100% infection rate while this virus might have hit only 10% of the population (some places more, some places less). Other side offcourse is that with the flu you can get vaccinations, this virus doesn't have that mitigating effort, yet.

 

I did hear a speculation that Eastern Europa's subdued outbreak might be because TBC vaccination still happens mandatory and with it a booster to the patients lung functioning. Offcourse correlation is not been established yet.

Well, with the flu vaccinations there is always the caveat that it very often is a different strain that comes than the one you got the shot for.

 

As for the relative success of Eastern Europe in dealing with this...That's a bit of a mystery. All circumstances indicate that COVID should hit these countries harder than Western EU countries, as we have significantly worse healthcare systems and by and large, lower life expectancy (a.k.a an unhealthier population). Maybe the TBC vaccination has something to do with it, but my cynical reading is that there are fewer people here that are "at risk", simply because most folks with serious preexisting conditions are dead already, even without COVID.

 

What's really suspicious to me is that there seem to be reports that the virus was present in Europe (e.g. France) as early as November 2019, in fact I'm pretty sure that I myself caught this as early as December 2019 and then my wife early March (anecdotal, but symptoms totally check out as a mild variety of COVID in both our cases), it's just that nobody was testing for it at the time. So what gives, how come there was no apocalypse across Europe then? We've all heard the stories where a single individual at a restaurant infected tens of people in a few hours, of course we only ever know because we are testing for it and make a big deal out of it. Then there is the fact that counting COVID fatalities is an absolute patchwork of practices that varies from country to country and often little distinction is made of victims that died OF COVID instead of WITH COVID.

A relevant article concerning the higher death rates: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

 

Something to consider.

Well, with the flu vaccinations there is always the caveat that it very often is a different strain that comes than the one you got the shot for.

 

As for the relative success of Eastern Europe in dealing with this...That's a bit of a mystery. All circumstances indicate that COVID should hit these countries harder than Western EU countries, as we have significantly worse healthcare systems and by and large, lower life expectancy (a.k.a an unhealthier population). Maybe the TBC vaccination has something to do with it, but my cynical reading is that there are fewer people here that are "at risk", simply because most folks with serious preexisting conditions are dead already, even without COVID.

 

What's really suspicious to me is that there seem to be reports that the virus was present in Europe (e.g. France) as early as November 2019, in fact I'm pretty sure that I myself caught this as early as December 2019 and then my wife early March (anecdotal, but symptoms totally check out as a mild variety of COVID in both our cases), it's just that nobody was testing for it at the time. So what gives, how come there was no apocalypse across Europe then? We've all heard the stories where a single individual at a restaurant infected tens of people in a few hours, of course we only ever know because we are testing for it and make a big deal out of it. Then there is the fact that counting COVID fatalities is an absolute patchwork of practices that varies from country to country and often little distinction is made of victims that died OF COVID instead of WITH COVID.

 

I'd first like to adjust my statement, Belgium is at 5% infection rate.

 

To go with that, I'd like to note that this virus isn't as infectious as the flu, atleast not in general. Sure a grouping in close proximity for an extended time might mean that 1 person infects the entire group, but for now it seems we averaged at 3 to 5 infections per infected at the height of this pandemic. It lies in the trade-off of being a more severe virus but being less infectious.

 

Indeed various nations have had the virus during the intial stages, they just never really took hold due to the low infection rate, coupled with perhaps "smart" people being infected who stayed at home to ride it out.

 

As for Eastern Europe, I'd venture a guess that also wealth worked in your advantage, less people going abroad on vacation, even less to dangerous places. And of the people who could go, they tend to self-isolate in their social circles, which are also better monitored on health concerns as they can easily afford a doctor and/or medications. Heck has there been any news/testing to find out the total carriers of antigens in your nation?

 

Still, the "second wave" might still hit, and hit hard. I'd have serious doubts about you having contracted, and passed, the virus. Group immunity is a far flung utopia and who knows what an actual full spread will do to a nations health services.

 

A relevant article concerning the higher death rates: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

 

Something to consider.

The hurricane deaths not linked to actual wind, so to speak.

 

As for Eastern Europe, I'd venture a guess that also wealth worked in your advantage, less people going abroad on vacation, even less to dangerous places. And of the people who could go, they tend to self-isolate in their social circles, which are also better monitored on health concerns as they can easily afford a doctor and/or medications. Heck has there been any news/testing to find out the total carriers of antigens in your nation?

 

Still, the "second wave" might still hit, and hit hard. I'd have serious doubts about you having contracted, and passed, the virus. Group immunity is a far flung utopia and who knows what an actual full spread will do to a nations health services.

They did a testing on a representative sample of over 10k people and have found that somewhere between 1,1%-0,27% have gone through an infection at some point with is not much at all.

 

As for my possible infection... I work in the absolute center of Budapest, and I go out to eat lunch at one of the fast casual restaurants every day (very popular with tourists). I pass by a large groups of Chinese sightseers on a daily basis, in fact, I go to this Chinese restaurant every week or other week, that is also always full of Chinese tourists. I could easily have caught it very early.

Definatly a possibility indeed. Thou be carefull, thusfar being post-infection doesn't mean you aren't infectious, various levels of antigens have been reported. It hasn't been verified, nor has it been debunked, so stay cautious.

Sorry, it's been a while.  Hope all of you and yours are dong well.

Been really busy moving in my new home.

We just finished moving the last of the furniture in today.  Ended up renting a truck to get the last of it.  It took me a while to find a place to get one.   I got a F-350. All I can say is thanks be to god, I never bought one for my day to day driving.  I put 47 Km on the damned thing, and burned 44 L of gas.

I'm back to work on Monday.

Not sure what the Hell is going on.  I'm in a training unit.  There might not be any courses running.

We were briefed that courses will only be run with the CO's approval.  The restrictions are formidable.  If Covid rips through a course, the CO will hang. 

We are thinking that we'll be moved back to half days until the we get more information.

We are also expecting another shut down in October-November when the second wave hits.

Vaccine by late October

https://www.msn.com/en-us/Health/medical/cdc-coronavirus-vaccine-guidance-to-states-advises-them-to-be-ready-bylate-october/ar-BB18E0fJ?li=BBnba9O&pfr=1

The article literally says “The scenario documents do not necessarily mean a vaccine will be available by late October.”

 

However, this is a good sign, we need these vaccines to be ready ASAP.

Russia already has a vaccine, get your President to ask Putin to spare a few...

Russia already has a vaccine, get your President to ask Putin to spare a few...

prolly did!  That's why 'e don't wear a mask!!!      

 

... you do know sarcasm when you read it right?  Anyway, "I" thought I was funny, but I've "A" sense of Umor 

These vaccines are already known to work. They're already mass producing millions of doses for distribution. It's all about procedure, and who makes the money right now. Russia released their vaccine because they wanted the money.

 

Trust me... Democrats will try to delay the release as long as possible. They are desperate because they are running out of people to test... they want to keep those numbers up so they can keep the country down. Yes... they are that bad.

Yeah millions upon millions of batches of vaccines are being crafted, mostly continued work from influenza vaccine basis. Why you suddenly think the process that usually takes years can suddenly be done in months while not ignoring any scientific nor health benefits or dangers. Well, some fine people among us might call these people "marks".

 

The moment you start thinking your opposition is out to kill you in ever more convoluted ways of conspiracy nested in conspiracy, you have lost your mind. We talking about shadows now?

 

 

Well, some fine people among us might call these people "marks".

I don't know how your entire comment matters to anyone, but I will correct this one small portion...

"Well, some fine people among us might call these people "Marxist". 

Betsy, If you knew the first thing about Karl Marx is that his central thesis was a case for expedite vaccine research. It's plainly outlined in Das Kapital. Maybe you should read once in a while, DUH.