We're now 7 months in and still haven't been able to contain it.

Who the hell ever thought it could possibly be contained? It's a virus. The first lockdown was called "15 days to slow the spread". It was never an objective to lockdown, and cure it. The objective was to prevent hospitals from being overrun... to give us time to learn how best to treat it until a vaccine became available. We have learned how best to treat it, and several vaccines are ready to roll... yes I do count Russia and China... they have just as much right to make a vaccine. I myself have no intention of getting the vaccine. I want it released ASAP to shut these people down that think they can use this virus to destroy our lives.

 

Thousands of people die every day. When they die for whatever reason, if they test positive for Covid-19 anti-bodies, they are listed on the scoreboard as dying of Covid-19. This practice is massively overinflating the mortality numbers on the scoreboard. It plays right into the hands of self righteous zealots who love to force their will on others. History will tell you it doesn't work out well for the zealots, but history is what the zealots are trying very hard to rewrite.

 

Someone doesn't want anyone to hear what Tucker had to say last night about all this... so I give up trying to show you.

I mean I don't really need to indulge in listening to his demagoguery anyway (I know both sides do it, just try to steer clear of it on both sides as much as I can)

 

Locking down was meant to be allowing the virus to run its course in the people it had already infected and stop it from infecting others from there. If we had approached it with the care we should have we could have kept it from blowing up to what it has, unfortunately that didn't happen. We aren't the only ones guilty of failing to contain it early. It was possible if it was responded to early enough but people preferred to do their usual spring break shit instead. 

It was entirely way too late for all that. By the time China came clean about it, they had already delivered it all over the world. They all knew that everyone will get this... either by infection or vaccination. They just wanted time to see how bad it would be, and figure out a way to deal with it. It took them far too long to find out that hooking people up to ventilators was doing more harm than good, and the people dying from it, were dying from something else already.

 

I'm disgusted with all the fear mongering. Never have I seen the USA so afraid of anything... it's shameful, and it's Democrats that did it. All to bring down a President they hate. Pathetic. If you're sick... stay home. If you're afraid of getting sick... stay home. The rest of us have our own lives to live and will continue to pick up the slack for the cowards, just like we always have.

 

The stupid mask I'm forced to wear says... "This mask is as useless as our Governor"... most everyone I encounter, agrees.

I can't say if its luck of the draw or the care with which I've approached my interactions due to the virus but I've been wearing a mask whenever I'm in public for months now and I haven't gotten Covid despite living in the region that got the first cases of Covid in the country (western Washington state). A mask in and of itself won't stop you from getting sick, we touch too many common surfaces everywhere we go. Sanitizer and thorough washing of hands on a regular basis are also very important.

 

I think the reason that people were so concerned with Covid has to do with the fact that we had so many unknowns. Its entirely possible that you are right that it was too late for us to anything about Covid by the time people became aware of the problem, however there is something to be said for the fact that Trump admitted to knowing about it being a potential issue a couple months before anything was done. There were still a lot of unknowns, so while in hindsight many have blamed him for not acting sooner, I don't think that blame lies solely on his shoulders. I have plenty of problems with how Trump governed, and I have plenty of problems with his response to Covid, but it was a difficult situation to be put into. 

 

 

I haven't gotten Covid despite living in the region that got the first cases of Covid in the country (western Washington state).

Well Hello! My wife is from Bellingham, and we have a ton of family there. Inslee is worse than Sisolak, so my condolence.

 

You are probably already immune. People get this and they don't even know they had it. There are people that get tested, and there are even more people that never get tested. So for every one person stupid enough to get tested, I always times it by ten for the actual degree of infection. My guess is over half of the entire USA has already been exposed to Covid-19... maybe more, I'm a Conservative, even in estimations.

Chaplain, you are asking a libertarian to care...

 

 

 

Thousands of people die every day. When they die for whatever reason, if they test positive for Covid-19 anti-bodies, they are listed on the scoreboard as dying of Covid-19. This practice is massively overinflating the mortality numbers on the scoreboard. It plays right into the hands of self righteous zealots who love to force their will on others. History will tell you it doesn't work out well for the zealots, but history is what the zealots are trying very hard to rewrite.

 

Actually, your covid deaths are underreported, that or you fellows have an equal dangerous pneumonia and bronchitis epidemic going on... Official numbers are around 250k (which is horrendous any way you see it) and probably another 100k could be added to that just looking at actual "excess death" numbers.

 

 

As for infection rate, while regional variance is offcourse a thing, predictions put them at 10-15%.

Everyone has an opinion... even European Communists.

 

Las Vegas has been under a mask mandate since March. Now, if you wanted to demonstrate that your draconian restrictions on personal liberty were the right course of action... well then things would get better. According to the nifty scoreboards, that are completely designed to scare the shit out of people... it's obvious that it's not working.

 

Forcing people to wear a mask is equivalent to painting a crosswalk across a highway. It gives stupid people a false sense of security... "I can't get hit by a car... I'm in the crosswalk". Instead we have stupid people thinking... "I can't get Covid... everyone has to wear a mask". But in reality... everyone gets Covid anyway, and everyone looks stupid while they get it.

 

Don't ya think it's strange that as soon as we get the news that, within a couple weeks, vaccines are coming out, and then positive tests begin to climb? The people doing the testing, and cranking up the scoreboard, are all making tons of money. Who is paying them?

Forcing people to wear a mask is equivalent to painting a crosswalk across a highway. It gives stupid people a false sense of security... "I can't get hit by a car... I'm in the crosswalk". Instead we have stupid people thinking... "I can't get Covid... everyone has to wear a mask". But in reality... everyone gets Covid anyway, and everyone looks stupid while they get it.

Especially considering these masks aren't even N95, N100, R95, R100, P95, or P100. Almost everyone ran out of those in the opening weeks of Covid. I used to see people wearing N95 masks, and I've seen one random person wearing a P100 Respirator. The 3rd Party Cleaning Crew that my company brings in anytime an employee tests positive for Covid has some form of P mask (I believe its P100).

 

These homemade/cloth/surgical masks are practically useless in protecting you from others, and only slightly better in regards to protecting others if you're sick. One of the survival blogs I read put an estimated effectiveness rating on those masks. Remember if a mask says 95 in stops 95% of particles. If it says 100 it blocks almost 100% of particles. N is for airborne particles (N95 is basically the bare minimum of effective protection), R is for airborne particles and partially oil resistant, and P is for airborne particles and strong oil resistance. So N95 is least effective against Covid while P100 is most effective against Covid. So its estimated that the homemade/cloth masks have a rating between 10-20 and low grade dust masks are maybe 30-40.

 

Sure every little bit helps, but its barely anything.

 

Forcing people to wear a mask is equivalent to painting a crosswalk across a highway. It gives stupid people a false sense of security... "I can't get hit by a car... I'm in the crosswalk". Instead we have stupid people thinking... "I can't get Covid... everyone has to wear a mask". But in reality... everyone gets Covid anyway, and everyone looks stupid while they get it.

Especially considering these masks aren't even N95, N100, R95, R100, P95, or P100. Almost everyone ran out of those in the opening weeks of Covid. I used to see people wearing N95 masks, and I've seen one random person wearing a P100 Respirator. The 3rd Party Cleaning Crew that my company brings in anytime an employee tests positive for Covid has some form of P mask (I believe its P100).

 

These homemade/cloth/surgical masks are practically useless in protecting you from others, and only slightly better in regards to protecting others if you're sick. One of the survival blogs I read put an estimated effectiveness rating on those masks. Remember if a mask says 95 in stops 95% of particles. If it says 100 it blocks almost 100% of particles. N is for airborne particles (N95 is basically the bare minimum of effective protection), R is for airborne particles and partially oil resistant, and P is for airborne particles and strong oil resistance. So N95 is least effective against Covid while P100 is most effective against Covid. So its estimated that the homemade/cloth masks have a rating between 10-20 and low grade dust masks are maybe 30-40.

 

Sure every little bit helps, but its barely anything.

 

10.1017/dmp.2013.43

Free PMC article

Abstract

Objective: This study examined homemade masks as an alternative to commercial face masks.

 

Methods: Several household materials were evaluated for the capacity to block bacterial and viral aerosols. Twenty-one healthy volunteers made their own face masks from cotton t-shirts; the masks were then tested for fit. The number of microorganisms isolated from coughs of healthy volunteers wearing their homemade mask, a surgical mask, or no mask was compared using several air-sampling techniques.

 

Results: The median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask.

 

Conclusion: Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection.

 

 

https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.04.17.20069567

The 3M brand mask worn as designed had a mean removal efficiency of 75%; with the exception of the Charcoal Air Pollution facemask and Sewn Mask J, which came close to this removal efficiency, all other masks achieved removal efficiencies of less than 60% (range of 30-60%) when worn as loose-fitting masks. The addition of a nylon stocking overlayer improved the removal efficiency for all loose-fitting masks, including commercial medical-type masks, by 15 to 50 percentage points and also decreased the time-based standard deviation (indicating more consistent particle removal); this provides a recommendation for mask efficacy improvement that can easily be implemented by individual mask wearers.

 

If a transmission reduction is only 10-30% (though probably markedly higher in both parties wearing a mask) the USA alone is looking at a difference of 30-90k deaths. Easy to be dismissive when you're young and healthy and almost certainly going to survive anyway. 

 

I find it very bizarre that mask wearing and wanting to mitigate mortality and mobility has somehow become a political issue. Especially as it's somehow seen as a freedom issue. Even a few years ago people would sometimes be seen wearing masks as a way of improving their freedom and prevent CCTV tracking. 

There seems to be a lot of arguing over who gets a vaccine shot first. Here's my choice for number one...

 

Teachers. Get their whining butts back to work... now.

 

My second choice will be all these idiots that keep getting tested. They think they're getting another swab, but just poke them right up the nose with that vaccine as they come in. In a week there will be no more positive tests.

 

After that, we should be back to normal and never hear about it ever again.

There seems to be a lot of arguing over who gets a vaccine shot first. Here's my choice for number one...

 

Teachers. Get their whining butts back to work... now.

 

My second choice will be all these idiots that keep getting tested. They think they're getting another swab, but just poke them right up the nose with that vaccine as they come in. In a week there will be no more positive tests.

 

After that, we should be back to normal and never hear about it ever again.

 

Teachers I agree with.

 

I'd do teachers and the over 60's or those with risk factor health problems. I would also be tempted to do repeat testers... the tests aren't cheap.

 

A few issues... the vaccines are all 2 doses over a 4-8 week pattern and an injection not a nasal swab. 

 

You can believe it's fake if you like. I've seen to much of it to deny it. 

Chaplain, you are asking a libertarian to care...

 

 

 

Thousands of people die every day. When they die for whatever reason, if they test positive for Covid-19 anti-bodies, they are listed on the scoreboard as dying of Covid-19. This practice is massively overinflating the mortality numbers on the scoreboard. It plays right into the hands of self righteous zealots who love to force their will on others. History will tell you it doesn't work out well for the zealots, but history is what the zealots are trying very hard to rewrite.

 

Actually, your covid deaths are underreported, that or you fellows have an equal dangerous pneumonia and bronchitis epidemic going on... Official numbers are around 250k (which is horrendous any way you see it) and probably another 100k could be added to that just looking at actual "excess death" numbers.

 

 

As for infection rate, while regional variance is offcourse a thing, predictions put them at 10-15%.

 

Compared to some of the other disagreements I've had with Lys I can understand his logic on a lot of this, based on the information he's seeing so I'm trying to discuss and argue in good faith because I believe he is doing the same. There is still a disconnect in core beliefs and the source of the information (and therefore different interpretations of that information) that is being taken in between us but I can at least understand that. 

 

I don't have any huge problems with Inslee (at least no glaring problems, its not like I'm gonna write him a glowing review either) but again I agree with the idea of locking down to slow the spread of the virus. To be honest I was annoyed with how long he put off going into lockdown in march. I had already basically gone into quarantine other than work because I was aware of Covid from around early January before it ever made it to us from reading articles about it. If it weren't for the inability to enforce it based on the lack of actual borders between states, I would have been all for a shutdown of state borders, with selective opening once their case counts dropped, especially since certain states have handled the pandemic so poorly.

 

 

A few issues... the vaccines are all 2 doses over a 4-8 week pattern and an injection not a nasal swab. 

It was more of a joke... they would quit getting tested because an injection in your nose would be so damn painful they wouldn't want to do it anymore. I hear that a positive test is a positive test... so these people keep coming in to get tested, and it's negative, so they keep getting tested to see if it's positive yet... and when they get a positive they keep coming in to get tested every day until it's negative again. So one person ends up scoring 15 positive tests. Yeah, go team. 

Everyone has an opinion... even European Communists.

 

 

Betsy, it seems that you’re radicalizing. I distinctly remember that up until about a month ago, you were only a Socialist

 

What will you become next? Maoist? Stalinist?

 

A few issues... the vaccines are all 2 doses over a 4-8 week pattern and an injection not a nasal swab. 

It was more of a joke... they would quit getting tested because an injection in your nose would be so damn painful they wouldn't want to do it anymore. I hear that a positive test is a positive test... so these people keep coming in to get tested, and it's negative, so they keep getting tested to see if it's positive yet... and when they get a positive they keep coming in to get tested every day until it's negative again. So one person ends up scoring 15 positive tests. Yeah, go team. 

 

 

Hahaha, that wouldn't work here... we'd tell them to fuck off... slightly more politely. 

 

 

I distinctly remember that up until about a month ago, you were only a Socialist

"The Great Reset" that the Canadian ass was talking about in the video, is Communism. Covid-19 has given the world it's "chance" to change everything. It's the great "opportunity to accelerate our pre-pandemic efforts to reimagine economic systems that address global challenges"... blah blah blah. I'm sure all the Globalist, Socialist, Democrat, Liberal, Progressive, Communist... or whatever new name they come up with today, are all on board with their New World Order. I call it the start of World War III.

 

This is coming from the proud Republican, Libertarian, Conservative, Nationalist, or whatever new name you want to call me.

 

 

Chaplain, you are asking a libertarian to care...

 

Well this is something to chew on... listen to the science.

 

My source: https://www.westernstandardonline.com/2020/11/senior-doc-says-alberta-politicians-playing-medicine-media-driving-hysteria/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvYzf0MqObg

Well this is something to chew on... listen to the science.

 

My source: https://www.westernstandardonline.com/2020/11/senior-doc-says-alberta-politicians-playing-medicine-media-driving-hysteria/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvYzf0MqObg

 

There's no doubt it's been hyped a lot by the media. Hell... fucking Ebola was hyped beyond belief, especially when you consider it never left Africa. 

 

Though to call it a bad flu... it's a fekkin' horrific flu.

So if we look at the CDC data for the USA - https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html#:~:text=While%20the%20impact%20of%20flu,61%2C000%20deaths%20annually%20since%202010.

 

US Covid associated deaths = 252k (with an error margin for sure)

US Estimated flue deaths from the 2010/11 to 2016/17 seasons = 242k (with an error margin for sure)

 

In the 70's US flu deaths were around 20k pa, in the 90's around 36k pa, with "exceptionally bad years" being 50-70k. 

 

So if this is already 4-5 times what was considered an exceptionally bad year, what's this?

@Chaplain, you will find me continuing the discussion/debate/replies regardless of his (and others) views. I equally try to understand the other sides position and reasonings in so much as I hope they try to understand mine.

 

Forcing people to wear a mask is equivalent to painting a crosswalk across a highway. It gives stupid people a false sense of security... "I can't get hit by a car... I'm in the crosswalk". Instead we have stupid people thinking... "I can't get Covid... everyone has to wear a mask". But in reality... everyone gets Covid anyway, and everyone looks stupid while they get it.

.
Thats the thing, stupid people continue to be stupid people. Like idiots who wear seatbelts but then go speeding...

The masks is to support some semblance of normality in term of daily activities, in as long as crowds and other restrictive spaces with bad ventilation can be avoided. And no, not everyone is getting COVID, only the idiots are readily getting it (and then spreading it to the people who do care).
.

Don't ya think it's strange that as soon as we get the news that, within a couple weeks, vaccines are coming out, and then positive tests begin to climb? The people doing the testing, and cranking up the scoreboard, are all making tons of money. Who is paying them?

.
Vaccines are still months away from mass-distribution. And why the US is on its 3rd peak is only a guessing game for the stupid people...
.

Teachers. Get their whining butts back to work... now.

.
raise their paycheck and actualy give them societal support, instead of making them the nanny of the daylight hours.
.

My second choice will be all these idiots that keep getting tested. They think they're getting another swab, but just poke them right up the nose with that vaccine as they come in. In a week there will be no more positive tests.

.
Yeah throw those fools out. Then again, it sounds like they are living the capitalist dream of continued consumption
.

 

Everyone has an opinion... even European Communists.

Betsy, it seems that you’re radicalizing. I distinctly remember that up until about a month ago, you were only a Socialist

What will you become next? Maoist? Stalinist?

 

.
Have been called a Stalinist already.

Even ignoring the disconnect between USA and "rest-of-the-frecing-world" in terms of political spectrum, I am darn low on the socialism scale. He just doesn't wat to believe that I am actually conservative in the dictionary sence of the word.
.

 

I distinctly remember that up until about a month ago, you were only a Socialist

"The Great Reset" that the Canadian ass was talking about in the video, is Communism. Covid-19 has given the world it's "chance" to change everything. It's the great "opportunity to accelerate our pre-pandemic efforts to reimagine economic systems that address global challenges"... blah blah blah. I'm sure all the Globalist, Socialist, Democrat, Liberal, Progressive, Communist... or whatever new name they come up with today, are all on board with their New World Order. I call it the start of World War III.

 

.
And a conservative "kill government" or trumpism "drain the swamp" isn't a massive "change"? This ties into the whole "libertarians are lone island dwellers", perhaps in the last ice-age when your cave-family was all you had it was sorta workable, but human society evolved from family-units, to small scale settlements and towns to present-day full interconnected cities that house millions. basically the time of flailing around a stick is gne, you will hit the guy standing next to you at the sidewalk crossing (or are traffic lights evil communism eans of control aswell? )
 
And hey, its the NWO again! Clearly the evil cabal has been meeting over zoom and I just haven't checked my mail for the invite
.

This is coming from the proud Republican, Libertarian, Conservative, Nationalist, or whatever new name you want to call me.

Chaplain, you are asking a libertarian to care...

 

.I have only called you a Libertaria or a Republican in the past, with perhaps some tendencies of conservatism and nationalism. Whatcha moaning about by using your own styled identifiers?

Though to call it a bad flu... it's a fekkin' horrific flu.

Your argument is not with me... it's with the doctor from Alberta Canada.

 

I'm not a doctor... I'm just an American taxpayer that sees that the loudest voices, and the people making all these decisions, have the most to gain from making this a "crisis". Our Democrats here in the USA have a motto... "Never let a good crisis go to waste". Another famous Democrat, after his release from prison, recently said... "Democrats stealing elections is a time honored tradition".

 

I think we are seeing a lot of this now. I seriously doubt that those flu statistics include anyone who has died from drowning, heart attacks, crushed by an elevator, or car accidents, that just happened to test positive at the time of their demise. I've had this already... and it doesn't measure up to the hype... but it does entertain the sickest power hungry narcissists around us. As they begin to lose their power over us, they will start lashing out with even more hatred the closer this comes to it's inevitable conclusion.

 

Though to call it a bad flu... it's a fekkin' horrific flu.

Your argument is not with me... it's with the doctor from Alberta Canada.

 

I'm not a doctor... I'm just an American taxpayer that sees that the loudest voices, and the people making all these decisions, have the most to gain from making this a "crisis". Our Democrats here in the USA have a motto... "Never let a good crisis go to waste". Another famous Democrat, after his release from prison, recently said... "Democrats stealing elections is a time honored tradition".

 

I think we are seeing a lot of this now. I seriously doubt that those flu statistics include anyone who has died from drowning, heart attacks, crushed by an elevator, or car accidents, that just happened to test positive at the time of their demise. I've had this already... and it doesn't measure up to the hype... but it does entertain the sickest power hungry narcissists around us. As they begin to lose their power over us, they will start lashing out with even more hatred the closer this comes to it's inevitable conclusion.

 

 

I can only doubt whether he is actually being objective. The current virus is a SARS virus. It is genetically similar. It has very similar pathology, histologically similar, and radiologically similar. Yes, it is safer on an individual basis... the 2003 outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) had a case fatality rate of around 10% (8098 cases and 774 deaths), while Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) killed 34% of people with the illness between 2012 and 2019 (2494 cases and 858 deaths). Difference here is SARS-CoV2 (covid 19) has a death rate around 2% globally but over 6600x more cases, therefore on a population level more devastating. 

 

A disease with a high kill rate on an individual level if generally quite good for a population level as it often burns itself out quickly (look at ebola). High transmission with fairly low individual kill rates will typically kill more overall. Obviously high transmission and high kill is bad, though if the kill is high enough and fast enough will still typically burn itself out in the early stages.

 

My issue is with him, but also that what he is saying isn't accurate and feeds a dangerous counter narrative. 

I guess I should be grateful.

 

Steve Sisolak, our giant ass of a Gov-nah, laid down the hammer this afternoon. We were expecting a complete lockdown, but he must have received some decision altering encouragement from a few ultra-wealthy gaming corporations and hotel owners. I guess he didn't like the mental image of a horse head in his bed, or maybe even a car bomb.

 

We're getting cut from 50% open... to 25% for the next 3 weeks. Yeah... that'll fix it.

So you agree that lobbying is detremental to politicians making an informed (medical backed) opinion and ruling?

 

>_>

Pfizer Begins Shipping COVID-19 Vaccine To US From Belgium | Newsmax.com

 

The headline says it all. Pfizer is shipping the vaccine to Chicago from Belgium. It would make sense to vaccinate the entire country of Belgium before the vaccine leaves the country. Are you getting your vaccine my Belgian friend? Any plan for Europe? It would be beneficial to create an effective vaccine everywhere. We would kill this China plague a lot faster by working smarter.