612 replies to this topic

[killgor]

still waiting for preston to say something

[Preston]

Okay, checking in to the thread! I've got quite a bit to read up on it seems - I'll attempt to do so, but I would appreciate some brief summaries to assist with the backlog. Hopefully I'll be able to post something more coherent later this evening.

-Preston

[Robert2424]

read and make your own opinions. The person control of the spot has changed, but you could be scum yourself. Plus it be hard to do a summery of everything that has happened. 

[Robert2424]

Robert2424, on 19 Mar 2015 - 00:31, said: Yeah, you are well deserving of my vote Ovid.    Dearest Robert,   Beware with how you step in this valley of death. You haven't a shepherd; do not get lost.

You do know I'm Christian Right?  

[TBRaiders]

Okay, checking in to the thread! I've got quite a bit to read up on it seems - I'll attempt to do so, but I would appreciate some brief summaries to assist with the backlog. Hopefully I'll be able to post something more coherent later this evening.

-Preston

 

 

read and make your own opinions. The person control of the spot has changed, but you could be scum yourself. Plus it be hard to do a summery of everything that has happened. 

 

Exactly what Robert said.  I've been through this thread top to bottom several times.  We are on day 2, you can see who was killed on N1 and read from the top with this knowledge in mind.  If you are town, a fresh perspective will be great.

[Kaziocore]

Votecount 2.12

Big Ego (1) - Lyner
Electric Mango (0) -
Imran Ehsan (0) -
iSocialism (2) - TBRaiders, Big Ego
KevinH (0) -
killgor (2) - iSocialism, KevinH
Lyner (0) -
Ovidsidios (3) - Imran Ehsan, Spaztik Muffin, Robert2424
Preston (1) - Electric Mango
Robert2424 (1) - Preston
Spaztik Muffin (0) -
TBRaiders (0) -

Not Voting (2) - killgor, Ovidsidios

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to reach majority and 4 to reach half-majority.
Ovidsidios is the current wagon leader at L-4
Deadline is Monday, March 23rd, 2015 @ 19:20 EDT

[Big Ego]

 

Robert2424, on 19 Mar 2015 - 00:31, said: Yeah, you are well deserving of my vote Ovid.    Dearest Robert,   Beware with how you step in this valley of death. You haven't a shepherd; do not get lost.

You do know I'm Christian Right?  

 

He's just roleplaying.. he's saying watch your step, you may be wrong, you may get lost. He's trying to make you doubt or rethink your actions.

 

I still think the is a good chance he's just a townie, despite his eccentricity, and despite his theory (that has mostly been debunked) that I am trying to protect certain people. It was an interesting theory and a fun read, but to be quite frank, Imran's theory that a new guy did it holds more water.
 

[Preston]

@TBRaiders and @Robert2424 - you're right that I need my own opinion, but given the daunting task of reading this thread that's now at 22 pages... yeesh. Besides, seeing how different people chose to characterize the day would have been a source of information in itself. With that said we've only got until Monday so let's get down to it.

I cut down the task by starting reading at the start of Day 2; I saw that Day 1 ended in no-lynch, and thus most of the posturing/etc that happened then is utterly deniable by everyone involved. I did get a kick out of TBRaiders referring to me in his posts a few times though, for my prior support of Day 1 lynch; scum or not, that tends to be how I play! Just last game didn't go so well for me That game setup was *brutal* for the scum.

I'm a little surprised to see no role information provided for both of the Night 1 deaths. Serial killer + scum faction is a reasonable guess; I dont know about two factions. We can try to gather from Rafay's role name that he was some sort of cop (ouch), but "Old Man Bella"? Not knowing for certain what roles we are losing is a strange sort of twist - but MOST importantly, it means we CANNOT rely on death-flips to confirm or reveal what peoples roles told them! More on this in a bit.

As for the day's content: first thing I should look at is why R2V got so many votes slung his way. From what I have gathered, R2V was one of the 3-vote mini-wagons on Day 1 (KevinH referred to this on Day 2, killgor was the other mini-wagon). And after bandwagoning on the inactive Lyner, R2V found himself the subject of another bandwagon. I can see why this frustrated him, twice in two days. Specifically, this was the rationale that earned him that first vote from Robert:

Hmm this gets interesting. I will put myself on a bandwagon and cast a vote on Lyner.  Also to even things out as well.

R2V responded to this with a OMGUS vote. Killgor later threw on the second vote for 'pointless bandwagon'. This is where the votes sat until Lyner, Kevin, and eventually EM threw their votes onto R2V.

Given the way that Robert initially gave R2V an opportunity to explain his bandwagoning before voting, I get the impression R2V didnt realize how that was making him look; doubly so given the OMGUS vote that followed.

It's ironic this earned him such a focus, given that at the time Robert's half-claim was still an unbroached topic (there was more to talk about than just a bandwagoner). It's doubly ironic given the similar bandwagoning votes that happened later in Day 2. Without meaning to sling suspicion at anyone in particular:
1. Lyner and KevinH bandwagoned onto R2V for 'scattered votes' and "we gotta go with what we got", respectively.
2. Spaztik's "Bandwagon ahoy" and initial attempt to vote for Big Ego after Imran and EM voted
3. EM returned to Big Ego bandwagon "To make this a two horse race"

As for the rest of the day's content, a few things stood out to me.

First and foremost, Robert's half-claim in direct response to EM's vote against him.... that subsequently went completely ignored until EM brought it up again. Reading through the thread I was boggling, "WHY IS NOOONE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS?" EM reviving the point later said he had been waiting to see if someone ELSE would respond to it, and singles out Kevin in particular for not having done so. However aside from Killgor asking how much info Robert would take with him when he died and Imran opining that it could be a scum tactic to draw defensive roles to him, there doesnt seem to have been TOO much followup on the subject - least of all on EM's stated suspicion of Kevin. EM said he thinks Robert is town for the half-claim.

I seem to recall Robert doing this half-claim trick in the last game I was in? Memory is a little fuzzy. I agree with Killgor's later statement that there is no point in half confessions - teasing a role is disruptive if town, and frankly something I consider more anti-town. If you're claiming information to share, then share it and let people decide if you're real: if you're claiming a role to verify yourself, you have to give enough info for people to verify it/test it/decide if they trust you. And remember the thus-far quirk of this game: If killed, we won't know what your role was! Only your flavor text name and town/scum alignment is made public. So if Robert is killed Night 2 without revealing what he was/what he learned, we will NOT be able to infer anything from the fact he claims to have visited EM (other than the fact EM did not die). There is no point for a townie to paint a target on themselves without following through on it.

Another running trend today has been Imran and Ovidsidios. Imran was fairly vocal on Day 2 about how a Day 1 lynch would have left the town in a better position. Imran's working theory seems to be that an experienced player would have not killed Master Master Samus, and thus he is targeting newbies for either scum or SK. He started with a vote on Big Ego, and later took that vote off when Big Ego demonstrated some townie competency with a suspect list. He then voted for the similarly new and previously inactive Ovidsidios. Barring some intervening fluff between R2V, Robert and killgor, Ovidsidios responded fairly quickly after a vote was placed on him - and in his apparently characteristic verse. Imran subsequently asked Ovid to explain himself in plain english and Ovid refused, continuing over a few posts to refer to suspicion of Imran. Ultimately Ovid did a huge wall-of-text breakdown of Imran's attacks against him, without much Rhyming. Imran eventually responded to this, seemingly refuting most of the points or dismissing it as emotion/opinion/fluff. Finally, after it was announced I replaced R2V, Ovid seemed to back off his attacks on Imran in another wall-of-text and instead seemed to focus Big Ego for not having been convinced R2V was scum? This post of Ovid's was hard to parse, all over the place. (As is my post... oh well, cant deal with 11 pages of content in a SHORT manner!)

To TL;DR: the byplay regarding Ovid - lots of poetry that while stylistic is largely fluff, inactive/possibly lurking until voted for by Imran, still has not voted for anyone himself.

Side note: there seemed to be a recurring humor point where it is pointed out that Robert doesn't like poetry. Though I shared Robert's facepalm after reading three of Ovid's posts in a row.

So what about Big Ego? I commented above that Imran started a wagon against him (that got to 4 votes) before ultimately giving him townie credit and backing off. EM, Spaztik, and Lyner added to this wagon - EM changing his vote to Kevin and then later back FROM Kevin. Overall the impression I get from Big Ego is mostly town, albeit new town; difficult to read newbies. The one aspect about Big Ego that really stuck out was how he started Day 2 saying he suspected iSocialism, and now has found himself voting for iSocialism at the end of the day along with TBRaiders. However Ovidsidios suggested in one post that Imran would be found guilty when Big Ego was found to be town; I'm not sure how much to read into that.

Other misellanea that caught my eye during the day:
1. iSocialism and Big Ego both commented on R2V's lynch wagon in such a way as to support R2V or at least question the validity of the wagon being run against him. iSocialism actually voted for Killgor due to his R2V vote. And when KevinH put on the 4th vote, Killgor (who was on the R2V wagon) commented surprise that Kevin was willing to lynch on so little evidence.

2. Spaztik - A lot of his posts seemed fluff or otherwise null posts. However he jumped onto the Big Ego bandwagon (third vote). Then later voted for TBRaiders - who seems VERY town - for no reason other than TBR "needs some love as well"?? And finally jumped onto Ovidsidios with Imran and Robert.

3. Lyner commented on townies "lynched" last night, and later said that each dead townie gives us clues. While true in a strictly "who voted for town" sense, remember *again* that there role data is not made public after death in this game. For some reason these two comments of lyner's stuck out to me.

4. EM jumped onto R2V to 'trim dead weight' after R2V went inactive (and before my replacement was announced). EM has done a fair bit of vote jumping today, which catches my eye - aside from the obvious fact his is the last vote remaining on me.

------------------------------------------------------

Okay. So that's my thoughts on the day so far. So what do I *DO* with it all?? Ugh. It's already been 3+ hours reviewing the thread and writing this novel. (I hope EM will consider this valid for catching up to my usual wordcount?)

Those whom I currently feel are town:

TBRaiders - clear and detailed positions are useful. You seem to have a way of writing that seems very town, even in the prior game I played with you. So far it's in your favor this game as well.

Imran - thus far no clear scum tells, and generally seems to have a reasonable position. Plus he has been active, and I agree with his Day 1 lynch stance. I am not sure I agree with his prior idea that there is a vigilante instead of a serial killer though.

There are currently three people with two or more votes on them:
iSocialism, Killgor, and Ovidsidios. In the interest of not fragmenting votes and helping the town to lynch someone today (with 3 offline days remaining) I will confine my current focus to these three so that at least ONE of them can be reasonably lynched

Ovidsidios - Against him is his potential lurking, lack of any vote applied even now, reluctance to explain his thoughts in a clear manner, and his push against Imran that he ultimately backed off from as votes mounted. For him is the fact that Robert2424 and Spaztik are on his wagon - I am uncertain about the pair of them. Imran I feel better about.

iSocialism - TBRaiders voted against you. Big Ego has also voted against you; between the two of them I have a decent town feeling. However you also voted to defend R2V, which gives me something to consider. And your posts have seemed overall reasonable, including questioning Robert's partial claim.

Killgor - Against him is the fact he was on TBRaiders' suspect list, and that he voted for R2V; as a townie inheriting that position, I have to take votes against me as potential scumminess. However it is somewhat balanced by his counseling R2V when he started to get unhinged, and his questioning of KevinH's 4th vote on the wagon. Killgor currently is not voting, but unlike Ovidsidios he has voted prior during the day. The two on this wagon are iSocialism and KevinH. I havent fully bought into EM's suspicion of Kevin for not having reacted to Robert's roleclaim, but neither have I completely absolved him of it - though he doesn't exactly stick out since NOONE responded to it.

I have reasons to vote and not vote for all three. This is a difficult choice. However I am ultimately falling on the side of voting for Ovidsidios for the following additional reasons:

1. Refusing to clarify position when asked is disruptive/annoying at best and anti-town or scummy at worst. When you flat-out refused to explain yourself when asked, that was bad on your part.

2. I do not trust Robert's half-claim; it was too conveniently timed and allowed to slip away largely untested or even seriously discussed. However Robert has spoken strongly against you. Your lynch, if it happens, will help in testing Robert and influencing my further opinion about him for future days.

3. Your refusing to vote even when you antagonized Imran was effectively not putting your money where your mouth is. Avoiding committment in that manner is scummy behavior.

4. While night targets are always something to be second guessed, right now the list of who died is one of the few SOLID pieces of information we have. I am willing to try Imran and EM's theory on this one that at least one of the killers last night was a newbie, since none of the experienced players (or semi-experienced players) were targeted.

Vote: Ovidsidios

Okay. That's done. Thanks if you read the whole way through; bleh if you just skipped to the bottom to see who I voted for. I'll try to check back in later tonight, but right now I am going to close the thread and go play a game or something. Peace.

-Preston

[Ovidsidios]

 

Robert2424, on 19 Mar 2015 - 00:31, said: Yeah, you are well deserving of my vote Ovid.    Dearest Robert,   Beware with how you step in this valley of death. You haven't a shepherd; do not get lost.

You do know I'm Christian Right?  

 

 

 

Then adhere to the word: I am no scum.

 

 

Vote: Ovidsidios

 

 

For a very detailed list, you draw upon very loose interpretations of my "played" character. I believe we all have roles, yourself including.

 

So, here is the move I am forced to play.

 

My vote:

 

iSocialism

 

The leap of faith would be for killgor to vote iSocialism. Your circumstances will be the following to deal with:

 

1). You will be lynching a townie

2). Since I've provided nothing worth of material (other than the finest poetry) you will be no better off, and worst since you will be two townsmen out.

3). How do we praise TBR's wisdom, but do not vote according to it (iSocialism).

4). After my unjust execution consider in which veracity my vote was called. Take note also of the far scummier things performed by others in this thread. Who were passed over, and who were called out?

5). My list stands, and I believe Preston's position, in my ghostly entity, has been affirmed. I do not believe their roles have been exchanged.

 

 

I would prefer no final meal. I will take questions of theory, assessments of judgments, and any other form of posited thought that will aid in the finding of scum. You all may have resolved that this day is over,

 

 

"There was no day like that before it or after it, when the Lord listened to the voice of a man"

 

Much there is still left to affirm who is scum

[TBRaiders]

Nice post, Preston.  I was actually the one waiting to see if anyone else referenced Roberts claim and addressed it in this post after iSo voted for EM.

 

Seems my list has at least caused some talking. Not great but still, would like better activity from people. 

 

Totally stealing credit for list starting, but its all good.

 

 

 

Votecount 1.11

Big Ego (0) -
Electric Mango (0) -
Imran Ehsan (0) -
iSocialism (2) - Ovidsidios, Sam᠎us
KevinH (1) - Rafay
killgor (0) -
Lyner (0) -
Ovidsidios (1) - iSocialism
Rafay (0) -
Road2Victory (2) - Imran Ehsan, Lyner
Robert2424 (0) -
Sam᠎us (0) -
Spaztik Muffin (0) -
TBRaiders (0) -

No Lynch (8) - Big Ego, TBRaiders, KevinH, Robert2424, Spaztik Muffin, killgor, Electric Mango, Road2Victory

Not Voting (0) -

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to reach majority and 4 to reach half-majority.
No Lynch is the current wagon leader at L-0
Deadline is Wednesday, March 4th, 2015 @ 19:45 EDT

 
 

What, I think  the line up is, is most likely one scum on the lynching side, and maybe two scums on the no-lynch bandwagon. With this I think we might have a late stagger on the No-lynch side. leaving me to look at Em and killgor. R2V is a new so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Vote Electric Mango

 

 

I was suspicious of you day 1, you had as much incentive to kill S.amus as anyone, and now you are voting for someone that if you read between the lines of some of today's posting you would realize is likely not a suspect.  For that last part, I am making some assumptions on the information posted but it is the only nugget of useful information I've seen posted and the only people who I think may have missed it are the people who don't need to be looking for it.

 

Vote: iSocialism

 

 

I was a little suspicious of EM when he didn't say anything until I brought it back up, but he may have been doing the same thing as me.

[Big Ego]

Nice review, Preston! I read the entire thing, kind of a refreshing perspective on it all.

I was a bit surprised though that you did vote for Ovid, and Ovid has made a decent response to it I feel. Man, it's just so hard to tell. You do make me doubt our votes on iSocialism a bit. (but I'm really sick of changing votes, so I'm not gonna change right now and muck things up again)

[Preston]

No energy to quote the responses to my post right now, but I'll reiterate that the final choice between those three options was NOT easy. I wavered between Ovid and the others for a good while. I frankly would have rathered some other options than the three that are there - however at this point to split votes further would be I feel anti-town, and ultimately risk us not getting a day 2 lynch at ALL.

-Preston

[KevinH]

I read it all, too.  I love this game and love it even more when there's lots of analysis.

 

In response to the earlier question about my voting on so little evidence, I'll restate my firm conviction:

• On Day 1, the town should not lynch.
• On Day 2 and following, the town must lynch.

I'll stick with my vote on Killgor for now but will switch it if necessary to secure a lynch.

[Lyner]

Well said Preston, my friend.

 

The votes will now gather around Ovid, the poet.

 

He will be dead, so dead.

 

Unvote

[TBRaiders]

No energy to quote the responses to my post right now, but I'll reiterate that the final choice between those three options was NOT easy. I wavered between Ovid and the others for a good while. I frankly would have rathered some other options than the three that are there - however at this point to split votes further would be I feel anti-town, and ultimately risk us not getting a day 2 lynch at ALL.

-Preston

Don't limit yourself to the current three if you see something the rest of us don't.  You have an outside perspective you are trying to bring inside and while I am still suspicious of your character because of R2V, I realize the value your analysis can bring to the town.  Convince me someone else is scum and I will listen.

[Robert2424]

Placing note. Need to read up to this point with those huge posts. I'm too tired from steaming all night. 

[Preston]

Don't limit yourself to the current three if you see something the rest of us don't.  You have an outside perspective you are trying to bring inside and while I am still suspicious of your character because of R2V, I realize the value your analysis can bring to the town.  Convince me someone else is scum and I will listen.

If we had more time in the day, I would prefer to try and pressure Robert more directly to expand on his half-claim - since without role information on death, we would have NO idea what he was alluding to if he is killed on night 2. It may not be a lot of information, but right now losing ANY information is bad. Given how thin we are on actual info right now, I think anything he could provide would benefit the town.

I made a post/summary list of notes as I read through the thread - when I get home tonight I'll skim through it again and see what falls out. Offhand however, the interaction between EM and Robert still sticks out to me due to the sheer lack of weight that connection was given. Kevin had thrown out a bunch of scenarios on what it could mean when prompted by EM to look at it again, but again - noone has followed up on it beyond EM loosely saying he thinks Robert is town. I would like to see this discussed more in what's left of the day.

-Preston

[iSocialism]

 

 

Robert2424, on 19 Mar 2015 - 00:31, said: Yeah, you are well deserving of my vote Ovid.    Dearest Robert,   Beware with how you step in this valley of death. You haven't a shepherd; do not get lost.

You do know I'm Christian Right?  

 

 

 

Then adhere to the word: I am no scum.

 

 

Vote: Ovidsidios

 

 

For a very detailed list, you draw upon very loose interpretations of my "played" character. I believe we all have roles, yourself including.

 

So, here is the move I am forced to play.

 

My vote:

 

iSocialism

 

The leap of faith would be for killgor to vote iSocialism. Your circumstances will be the following to deal with:

 

1). You will be lynching a townie

2). Since I've provided nothing worth of material (other than the finest poetry) you will be no better off, and worst since you will be two townsmen out.

3). How do we praise TBR's wisdom, but do not vote according to it (iSocialism).

4). After my unjust execution consider in which veracity my vote was called. Take note also of the far scummier things performed by others in this thread. Who were passed over, and who were called out?

5). My list stands, and I believe Preston's position, in my ghostly entity, has been affirmed. I do not believe their roles have been exchanged.

 

 

I would prefer no final meal. I will take questions of theory, assessments of judgments, and any other form of posited thought that will aid in the finding of scum. You all may have resolved that this day is over,

 

 

"There was no day like that before it or after it, when the Lord listened to the voice of a man"

 

Much there is still left to affirm who is scum

 

what far scummier things done by others. make it good and it would be your way out. Until then, to further my security.

Vote; Ovidsidios

[killgor]

for some reason i don't like where this is going. ever since preston showed up everybody seems eager to follow his lead.

[Ovidsidios]

for some reason i don't like where this is going. ever since preston showed up everybody seems eager to follow his lead.

 

 

Well specifically those whom have been high on many people's suspect lists.

 

I will not confuse Imram's veracity for anything short of role playing. I understand I shouldn't let my personal feelings get in the way of his attempts to figure out something. To be completely fair, I can see his "dissatisfaction" being a true motivator for accomplishing 2 goals: the first, to lynch scum; the second, to acquire information. I think Preston did a thorough job assessing our current day 2 information, except he veered unto me. Which is most telling for me because I am not scum. He was also wise in adding iSocialism to his list of suspects. He now has a backdoor exit for when I turn up townie, he can subtly push for iSocial's vote to avoid looking scummy.

 

I believe the pattern is already here, and when I have more time (very late tonight), I will be able to demonstrate "that vision which has been clearly revealed to me".