Lyner

Objection, Kevin and I can't prove our innocence this way since both of us will be NK-ed 1. You are not innocent, so your innocence can't be proven.2. The town objective is to kill scum, not to prove anyone's innocence. 3. If you and KevinH are NK-ed then, with two confirmed scum dead (Rafay and you), unless town has already won, KevinH's innocence is proven. 1. Be objective Euclid 2. You can identify the scum by proving townies' innocence 3. If Rafay turns out to be scum then congrats you'll lynch 3 townies instead of 4, which will make it 2 scum vs 2 townies, if SK/Mafia pick different targets.

Objection, Kevin and I can't prove our innocence this way since both of us will be NK-ed Well played :| vote: Euclid of Alexandria

Busy weekends Bandwagoning already? There's not much I can say more to prove my innocence except providing alternative theory Euclid lied, so he's either a vanilla or a mafia, can't see him as a SK. Let's assume he's a mafia He claimed I try to lynch a known townie, killgor. Well if I AM one of the scum I'd say I [excuse] so I missed the voting, it doesn't even matter who gets lynched, they're both townie :| Therefore his reason to investigate me is weak. Also I didn't unvote because killgor's reaction to my vote is bad Let's see what happened if I get lynched tonight I turned out as townie, Kevin NK'ed euclid, Euclid's partner NK'ed Kevin(or not, if he believes he's not under suspicion), and SK will NK one of the following: Nerau, Rafay, Commander Shepard, Imran Ehsan, Xx Karl xX I don't think Nerau and Karl will be NK'ed for they rarely post and it's favorable, Rafay and Shephard is currently battling each other, one of them is scum, and Shephard's probably Euclid's partner IMO. Then I guess Imran would be the target, unless he is the SK which means Nerau would be the target Now that leaves us with Karl, Shephard, Rafay, and Imran/Nerau. Rafay and Shephard will vote each other, aand the townies are in a really bad position, of course this is ignoring the power townies. This might be a risky move by mafias but the odds are not bad :| That's all for now I guess, I won't vote yet until I figure out the SK and said it all I'm a townie. Therefore Euclid lied.

The part that I've bolded is just another lie. I didn't include Nerau because he had already responded. I asked him in #449 and in #468 he responded saying that my vote on you was justified and, as I read it anyway, he also said there that you posted BS. Justified. not "True, I agree with you, he's suspicious" Though this is not that important

That's why it is called a theory :| I'm just providing another possibility, and what can I do with short statements to prove my innocence? Like it or not I have to do it

Oh sweet, pretty consistent with my current hypotheses

Now you've done it, Euclid After pondering a bit I thought of 2 hypotheses, he is either a vanilla townie or a very confident mafia goon: 1. Good guy Euclid. Like I said, I think you've been pro-town since the first day, but only as a vanilla. Now maybe you're already convinced and fixed that me and Rafay(and probably Kevin) are the scums, and to save the only power role that hasn't been claimed(dietician) you lied. The merit: The hidden true dietician might escape getting NK-ed and give some useful insights in day 3, we still win even if you get lynched, after all. It also stimulates people to spill more informations so we can read them. If this theory is true then it is bad of me for revealing it, but it's too bad because I'm a townie and we can get into worse situation if another townie get lynched. Pretty wild idea I know, still, a possibility. 2. Mafia goon Euclid. You're getting more and more suspicious since Kevin started a possibility that you're a scum. Here we go: You have an advantage for being a newcomer so we can't read if you're trying to misdirect us(you've been trying to lead us since the first day) or being a good townie. You suspected me as scum with reason: too much fluff, sounds like someone which we all agree as a pro-townie #378. And #503 is weird, why did you do that if you decided(or perhaps changed mind) to roleclaim? Maybe you're having a meeting at the daytalk between mafia goons? Maybe you think that you already gained townies' trusts and you believe you can create a bandwagon, or maybe you want to see me claiming something so your friend can target me(or not-me if I claim vanilla) at night? Possible case: At first you thought you can direct the suspicion to me without role-claiming, then when Kevin started his hypotheses you are getting desperate then claimed you're the dietician. There are 2 reasons: 1. You killed the dietician so you can get away without anyone denying your claim. 2. You want to detect the real dietician and NK him, even by sacrificing yourself for the sake of your undetected partner. Regarding partner, if you went on with the second reason then Shephard is probably a RB, because he showed up too much, and the next suspicious one on my list is Nerau, this is small details but why weren't you include Nerau when asking for opinions? he said your vote is justified, not true. He didn't say he support it and he haven't given his opinion of the current condition, and if he is your partner good for you, he can stay out of the radar If we went with the first reason then the Euclid-Shephard mafia theory sounds good I don't know about Shephard or Rafay, but what I know is you are not the SK, and probably not the dietician either What do you guys think?

Did Kevin's hypotheses tick some nerves? But yeah, Rafay, Imran, Karl and Nerau, some comments wouldn't hurt We're still missing your important opinion on who you think is lying between me and Rafay. At least your story seems more credible than rafay's statements, but I'll reread it incase it's a neat bs Will reply to the rest later.

Did Kevin's hypotheses tick some nerves? But yeah, Rafay, Imran, Karl and Nerau, some comments wouldn't hurt

Ah, the "he's a townie" refers to Nerau. My apologies, I believe there is a mistake here, this list is my true guess dependent from the assumption that rafay is honest(that bolded part), I guess my mind was confused when I was typing back then I posted my list of suspicion assuming rafay is honest in my previous post.

I believe Kevin is vig, I saw the hints that he is one since the first day On today's lynch, I propose: 1. Karl if he/his replacement doesn't show up, I don't think he will be night-killed, and if he passed to day 3 that would be bad. 2. Follow Kevin's judgment, taking the odds that rafay says the truth, that leaves out: Euclid, Imran, Karl, & Shephard (leaving me of course ), if this is true I can see Euclid's pairing with Shephard and Imran being SK, but that's only my hunch based on the premises 3. Rafay, if he lied, means that he is a SK or one of the goon, if he is SK then good, if he is mafia I have no clue who is his partner, except Nerau has higher probability 4. Kevin, if he is SK that has killed Martino the vig, and gamble that the townies will believe him, pretty unlikely though What do you guys think?

IIRC killgor was pretty vocal about his suspicions of and Kazio and me. Why would you say he was low on opinions? Especially since KevinH has IMO mostly been talking about game mechanics rather than having actual opinions of other players. So, not buying this. Well then your fault, it's a subjective matter, I guess my playstyle is a bit same with Kevin 1 & 3. Say what you will, I don't see any problems with what I did 2. So what is the right thing to do, Mr. Confidence? If you think that my posts were fluffs, that it can't be helped 4 & 5. "Also when I don't say anything then that means I don't have any useful opinion IMO" 6. Opinions of the current situation, please refer to that for any future case, and nah, staying silent is better than directing attention to others if I played as mafia Neither, re-think it, even vanilla townies have their own roles I'm still not convinced that rafay is a scum, he attracted too much suspicion into himself. though I agree that he is more suspicious than the rests, that's all

and no, I didn't suspect him for blocking Nerau, nothing suspicious about that, but the overall impressions

After people had unvoted Rafay it was KevinH that got the killgor wagon running. That could of course be easily explained by him not wanting to be lynched himself. However, Lyner put the decisive vote on killgor, thus saving KevinH. Why did Lyner do that? He had not previously expressed any suspicion of killgor (not counting his RV). He did not join or even acknowledge Kazio when Kazio was pressing for a killgor lynch. So, yeah, why would Lyner vote killgor rather than KevinH? One explanation would be that Lyner read KevinH as town. But then why didn't he just say so when he voted killgor? Another explanation would be that Lyner is a goon and KevinH is his buddy. Actually I intended to vote either RoT/killgor so I can see their reactions and apparently killgor has more votes so I picked him for more pressure, and you know the rest Thats a pretty strange set of assumptions. You are saying almost everyone looks scummy except Rafay who is assuredly confirmed townie? Why? Because he has claimed to role block Nerau. Unless Neraus and Rafay are scum together (which also has its set of drawback..you id one the other is doomed), why would Rafay say he role blocked Nerau. If he was scum masquerading as the role blocker he would have most assuredly claimed to have blocked one of the guys who were night killed. Also we can not totally count out Nerau as scum. The only info we got from Rafay's role block is that he is not the Vig or the SK. He could be one of the scum who didnt send in the NK (but his partner did). That is the problem, I haven't seen any suspicious behaviour except rafay(and there's meta personality to consider, though I won't count on it) And yes I'm open to any possibilities, I forgot to say "assuming rafay is honest", my bad there :|

That escalated quickly Euclid Alright here we go: #419 : Kevin has been pro-town from the start for all I can see, while killgor was low on opinions, it's clear who I should vote for, and that was not a motivation nor reason to vote, it's addendum :| 1. Nothing to comment here, nothing to argue about 2. Yes, that is my rule for first day of mafia, nothing can be proven on first day and when inactives passed the first night they're almost useless because we can't read them 3. Look at number 1 4 & 5. Thanks to you and Shephard, we can observe people's reactions and giving our opinions when something smells, and don't say that I didn't give my opinion, at #107 I said mine, I think I made it clear I prefer short clear opinions, not everyone is like you, deal with it Also when I don't say anything then that means I don't have any useful opinion IMO, you can prompt me for response though, I'll clear everything 6. I'm asking for killgor's (and RoT's) opinion, and he gave a positive reaction(my "pressure" seems working). And nah I'm not defending anyone At least I'm convinced that you're pro-town so I won't vote back (well for now) Now that we know Rafay blocked Nerau, we can assume he's a townie, now that leaves us with: Nerau: neutral, can't get any readings KevinH: might be a townie Rafay: not enough information, might be scum Commander Shepard: probably townie if this is his first time Lyner: cool townie Imran Ehsan: might be a townie Euclid of Alexandria: might be a townie Xx Karl xX: See what I was talking about? Each townies have their own roles, so I hope we can cooperate Also I'd like hear everyone's opinions of everyone, what do you think of their allegiances?

With the assumption that Rafay is honest, then the mafias and sk were afraid they might lynch the same person(rafay) so neither lynched him And yeah agreed we need the infos before we can start the discussion

RoT and killgor, opinions? feel the pressure a bit vote: killgor

I like how you posted fluff to appear active. Any insights? I think Rafay is not an SK. I also think Rafay should be lynched if he fails to roleclaim because 1) If he is scum, fantastic 2) If he is town and the mafia or sk killed him, they will receive his identity. They can freely roleclaim Rafay's unknown role. Still better than nothing at all, don't you agree? I'm waiting for rafay's response, but oh well here we go: I'm still not convinced that rafay is a scum, he attracted too much suspicion into himself, and it's still day one And there is the possibility that it was a bad play and now he's stuck. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that we only suspect rafay, nobody else. I think that's all for now, I'll still gunning for the ones that try to stay under the radar

Kazio and Nerau where are you?

FYI there are 3 scums, 2 of them work as a team And hello Karl

Sacrificing yourself for town is very pro-town, though it won't be fun Still waiting on the replacement

You guys have great sense of humour aand agreed with Imran, updated vote count please

Sorry guys, I got to go for three days, maybe I can visit sometimes. I'll review everything when I come back, and share my opinions unvote

Count me in