Ferastical

Wait, which question?

Now you're just not listening Lynching CAN NOT be boiled down to just basic numbers. There are human minds at play. There are going to be biased posts, fake claims, "scum tells" and much more flying all around the place. Lynching here is never totally random. You really want to go forward with this? Fine then, let's get a random machine-generator thingy to organize the actual random lynching. Wait, the scum doesn't want that, since they now don't have the possibility to talk themselves out of getting lynched anymore? Duh. Not only that, I'm very much guessing not every townie wishes to sacrifice themselves to this playstyle. It would be a total outrage. So outta here with that randomness poppycock.

What? No... talking about strategies we could use to win the game and pointing out potential flaws is totally justified. I just want you to think about what you're saying. You're advocating very strongly against not lynching, although we most probably are going to lynch a town, but when it comes to the NK, you're suddenly concerned? That's the thing, in your example, TW is the only person to know that he's town. Others do not have that information. And information is the only way the town can get an advantage. And you can't possibly present the person's experience as the only reason for them to be docced. Once again, we do not have sufficient information, especially on D1. What if that person is Mafia? What if Mafia now knows to target someone else, because that person most probably is going to be docced? What if TW wasn't the target in the first place? There is always that uncertainty. In the following days, as NKs begin to clear the air and potential attack targets become more certain, having an available doc power is way more certain to save someone. And, in addition, we may have gathered info on N1. Other thing I need to repeat is that we're collectively putting way too much pressure on the JOATs. Apart from them, this is just a Mafia game with no power roles, the town just happened to get 2 more members that have the possibility of providing valuable information. Something doesn't end up going well, the scum is obviously going to put the JOATs on the pedestal, and undermining our towny morale in the process. That being said, as we have no information to go off yet, lynching a "sus" on D1 is just ridiculous.

brewers- 905 LS - 605 Ferastical - 302 thank you, you guys will be joining me soon Crozier Captain - 290 Hey! 300+ Noice Ferastical Torres951 - 275 Eogrim - 240 King Cankles - 172 Rhizo - 166 murphpk - 163 Theophilos - 143 RR - 139 Hertt - 114 dagonslayer51 - 111 SealTeamPi - 103 AngelCruzdelaSant - 87 MWilson - 84 Fermion- 81 Tony Maurice- 78 Samudragupta - 49 George Jarvis - 46 legoboyvdlp - 24 Lachiton - 21 Mazuurek - 19 Jarcine1221 - 18 captainjf - 17 Yowza! spike2 - 14 myrrdin Emrys - 13 MorganFreeman - 13 Yamuna - 13 theWanderer - 11 PenguiNation - 11 LegendOfStein - 9 JayMillz - 6 Leche06 - 6 Odbody - 5 Mandarijn - 4 Rolento - 4 Atliis - 4 Sithon - 3 Kaziocore - 3 sukmaindra9 - 3 1ceCream - 3 Colonel Medved - 3 Aztek - 3 Whitebeard - 2 SaveStation - 2 cmdrnchf - 2 Robert2424 - 1 Omahen - 1 Red General - 1 baldeagle92 -1

This one is actually a very bad advice. I could even go as far as to say it's a scummy advice. It's like an invitation "dear scum go ahead and target one of the most experienced townies right away, there will be no risk of missing the shot". Well, it isn't a theory, it's a strategy, and it's not mine, so I haven't though of every aspect, I can confess. It was just so damn clever, I thought it would be good to share it. But as time has passed it's become obvious we don't really have the experience to attempt this and we're already losing motivation... so guess we can use the extra posts for possible reads, if anything. And what I don't get now, is how exactly is MK's advice "very bad"? What do you suggest otherwise, for the JOATs to use doc on a random person, gather no evidence for the first night, and have to watch by being able to do nothing as someone is obviously going to be targeted at N2 or N3? If there's anyone going around with a scummy vibe, it's you.

That is not true. The likehood of JOAT tracking town and being killed on the next night is far greater than tracking mafia killer and then getting killed on the next night. 8 times out of 10 that X you want to suspect will be town. That Cop Niner tactic worked because players not only posted who they visit, but also posted results (non cops were making them up). When vanila died you know his result was a fiction, but when cop died you know it was true. And it was somewhat working, because there are just two results: guilty / not guilty (so it's harder to tell whether someone is a cop or just making up things) and because every cop's result was valuable (not finding a scum was valuable too). We don't have that easy. First of all JOAT posting his result as "nothing detected" has no value (either town or scum that did nothing that night). Secondly JOAT posting result of kill detection is mostly dead because he most probably will be a target at night. This makes a lot of sense You can easily say x is guilty/not guilty But the JOATs have multiple abilities. People are gonna just confuse the shit out of everyone So and so visited so and so. I protected blah blah The fabrications will be WAYYYY too in depth. It won't really get us anywhere That is not true. The likehood of JOAT tracking town and being killed on the next night is far greater than tracking mafia killer and then getting killed on the next night. 8 times out of 10 that X you want to suspect will be town. That Cop Niner tactic worked because players not only posted who they visit, but also posted results (non cops were making them up). When vanila died you know his result was a fiction, but when cop died you know it was true. And it was somewhat working, because there are just two results: guilty / not guilty (so it's harder to tell whether someone is a cop or just making up things) and because every cop's result was valuable (not finding a scum was valuable too). We don't have that easy. First of all JOAT posting his result as "nothing detected" has no value (either town or scum that did nothing that night). Secondly JOAT posting result of kill detection is mostly dead because he most probably will be a target at night. You're focusing too heavily on the tracker side of things, remember that anyone (including JOATs) can claim smart motion detector and doctor claims as well, and there they can give results as much as their heart desires (except for the critical exception of course) That's because if during a tracker claim, the person who the target visited in most cases is a major clue to Mafia to rule out who JOATs can and can not be. So yes, I see where this could mess up. But I still believe that if we'd have the chance to try, we'd make it work... Let's just agree that we don't have the "necessary amount of mafia-XP" to attempt that strategy, maybe once we gather more experience we can try some more high-risk/high-reward plays

Yes! This is the type of energy I'm looking for! Virtual high five to you!

Not totally worthless... If a JOAT posts that he/she tracked X on N2, and gets knocked out immediately N3, you might want to suspect X, for example The thing is, we can't reveal who the person visited, otherwise it would ruin the strategy. As I said, the problem is that Town doesn't use their JOATs properly - this strategy insures 3 things - 1) The Town attempts to keep the JOATs safe 2) The actual JOATs can present the town with information every day, even if it is limited 3) If one of the JOATs finds the other (most possibly by tracking), he/she can confirm the other JOAT without letting Mafia know And if a JOAT uncovers enough valuable information, there's always the possibility of RCing. Another thing I want everyone to remember is that the game does not orbit around the JOATs. Even without them, the town has a possibility to win. The actual main flaw for this strategy is that analyzing the claims that we're made about vanilla townies, the Mafia might eventually cross off certain people who definitely can't be the JOATs. But the truth is, the JOATs won't stay alive for long anyway. In one sense or another, the JOATs are doomed from the beginning. So don't expect JOATs to do all the work for us. The main burden is still on the townsfolk, to lynch those who seek to wreak havoc on our innocent lives. And yeah, someone needs to set up a counter how many times the word "JOAT" has been said in this entire thread. lol That is a real concern, since this is just a casual forum game, not the actual Mafia Championships Still, I think it's worth a try. Might be fun, even. Out of the 11 games, D1 lynches hit 9 vanilla townies, 1 JOAT and 1 Mafia Goon. And in the game, where they hit that one mafia, the mafia still won. That's the thing, there never is actually a 20% chance of lynching a scum player, everybody forgets that we are able to talk. Mafia will talk, at least attempt to talk their way out of a lynch, that is their actual goal in-game.

Is it possible that the "Strongman" attribute or whatever also applies on the voting system? How so? I'm not sure what you mean. Yeah, guess I needed a refreshment read, the strongman attribute only signifies that kills can't be blocked and nothing else. Other than that, yeah, no idea. Considering Brewers said this game might have roles that we've never heard of...

brewers- 905 LS - 605 Ferastical - 301 oh, hello there, guess I won't be writing my mafia post then Crozier Captain - 288 Torres951 - 274 Eogrim - 240 King Cankles - 172 Rhizo - 166 murphpk - 163 Theophilos - 143 RR - 139 Hertt - 114 dagonslayer51 - 111 SealTeamPi - 103 AngelCruzdelaSant - 87 MWilson - 84 Fermion- 81 Tony Maurice- 78 Samudragupta - 49 George Jarvis - 46 legoboyvdlp - 24 Lachiton - 21 Mazuurek - 19 Jarcine1221 - 18 captainjf - 17 Yowza! spike2 - 14 myrrdin Emrys - 13 MorganFreeman - 13 Yamuna - 13 theWanderer - 11 PenguiNation - 11 LegendOfStein - 9 JayMillz - 6 Leche06 - 6 Odbody - 5 Mandarijn - 4 Rolento - 4 Atliis - 4 Sithon - 3 Kaziocore - 3 sukmaindra9 - 3 1ceCream - 3 Colonel Medved - 3 Aztek - 3 Whitebeard - 2 SaveStation - 2 cmdrnchf - 2 Robert2424 - 1 Omahen - 1 Red General - 1 baldeagle92 -1

Vote: Finster Baby The pressure is on. Is it possible that the "Strongman" attribute or whatever also applies on the voting system?

brewers- 905 LS - 605 Ferastical - 300 Crozier Captain - 287 Torres951 - 274 Eogrim - 240 King Cankles - 172 Rhizo - 166 murphpk - 163 Theophilos - 143 RR - 139 Hertt - 114 dagonslayer51 - 111 SealTeamPi - 103 AngelCruzdelaSant - 87 MWilson - 84 Fermion- 81 Tony Maurice- 78 Samudragupta - 49 George Jarvis - 46 legoboyvdlp - 24 Lachiton - 21 Mazuurek - 19 Jarcine1221 - 18 captainjf - 17 Yowza! spike2 - 14 myrrdin Emrys - 13 MorganFreeman - 13 Yamuna - 13 theWanderer - 11 PenguiNation - 11 LegendOfStein - 9 JayMillz - 6 Leche06 - 6 Odbody - 5 Mandarijn - 4 Rolento - 4 Atliis - 4 Sithon - 3 Kaziocore - 3 sukmaindra9 - 3 1ceCream - 3 Colonel Medved - 3 Aztek - 3 Whitebeard - 2 SaveStation - 2 cmdrnchf - 2 Robert2424 - 1 Omahen - 1 Red General - 1 baldeagle92 -1

brewers- 905 LS - 605 Ferastical - 299 Crozier Captain - 286 Torres951 - 274 Eogrim - 240 King Cankles - 172 Rhizo - 166 murphpk - 163 Theophilos - 143 RR - 139 Hertt - 114 dagonslayer51 - 111 SealTeamPi - 103 AngelCruzdelaSant - 87 MWilson - 84 Fermion- 81 Tony Maurice- 78 Samudragupta - 49 George Jarvis - 46 legoboyvdlp - 24 Lachiton - 21 Mazuurek - 19 Jarcine1221 - 18 captainjf - 17 Yowza! spike2 - 14 myrrdin Emrys - 13 MorganFreeman - 13 Yamuna - 13 theWanderer - 11 PenguiNation - 11 LegendOfStein - 9 JayMillz - 6 Leche06 - 6 Odbody - 5 Mandarijn - 4 Rolento - 4 Atliis - 4 Sithon - 3 Kaziocore - 3 sukmaindra9 - 3 1ceCream - 3 Colonel Medved - 3 Aztek - 3 Whitebeard - 2 SaveStation - 2 cmdrnchf - 2 Robert2424 - 1 Omahen - 1 Red General - 1 baldeagle92 -1

Nope, actually this setup is heavily town sided. I did some reading on that Mafia Championships website and looked into the games. There's one really smart post there about a viable strategy, I don't want to copy+paste, I will instead write down everything important and rephrase some stuff: The main problem for every single game is that Town does not use their JOATs to their full capabilities. A game with 12 vanilla townies (no PRs) and 3 mafia goons by itself would be more town sided because of the numbers, and adding 2 power roles, even weak ones, would generally make the game even more town sided. First thing - attempt to understand that this is in no way a mountainous game. If you get a JOAT as your role PM, no, you can't just "play like a vanilla townie". You might think that you could, but really not, professional players have tried and it didn't work out for them. Essentially, two town players are handicapped. They will seem "off", most probably stand out to the Mafia and possibly get suspicious looks from the Town. Secondly, the Town is compelled to play "around" the JOATs. When you suspect someone for being "off", is it really because they're Mafia, or because they're a JOAT? Your pushes will always have that uncertainty. The presence of the JOATs confuses Town. Most games will approach this setup in the same way, despite this way not getting good results. Here's what we can do instead: We use a strategy from a different setup. If you're familiar with Cop Niner, then you'll know that it's a standard setup and played so much, that there's a standard strategy. EVERY player provides a result. If they don't, they get lynched. This means that when the real cop (or in this case, the JOAT) flips dead, the information he/she collected isn't lost, because it's all in the game thread, and JOATs can put it there without getting the instant knife from Mafia. So, at the start of day two, and any day that follows, as long as a JOAT lives, you WILL post the result of your night action. And if we're going to do this, we have to start using this mindset right now. Question: But that will make me feel awkward... Yeah, no kidding. That's what happens to JOATs. That's why they get sussed by Town and have to claim or get killed from Mafia, because they can tell who is being awkward and who isn't. Sure, you would like to "town it up" and be easy to find as Town. But if you want that win, you're going to have to put in the effort. Question: But I AM the JOAT...? Well, good then. You just need to post results like everyone else does, except not lies. If the other JOAT flips before you, then you are going to know what they did and where they did it. You are going to be able to look at all the lies everyone else has told and in many cases you should be able to identify the towny lies from the scummy lies. That will be valuable. This is where the town gets enough value from having JOATs to overcome the benefits to the goons. Question: What kind of results should I claim then? READ THE JOAT INFORMATION! Don't go posting results that actual JOATs won't be able to come up with. Some of you might be thinking "ohh, I'm going to make a bad claim, so the scum knows I'm not the JOAT and I won't get NKed". Do not let those thoughts lead you to scum-siding here. Claim a tracker, motion detector, or a doctor while following the instructions. Over the first three days you have to claim each one. Make them look good. If you claim a tracker on someone, DO NOT include where they went. They are going to be making a claim about going to someone for themselves. We don't want to tell the Mafia that we're obv lying, now do we? THE CRITICAL EXCEPTION: If one of our JOATs makes a successful save, take a look at the claims you've already made. If you COULD doc, claim that you did. If you already "used" your doc, then claim tracker or motion detector as usual. IF THERE WAS A SUCCESSFUL DOC, DO NOT INCLUDE A TARGET IN YOUR CLAIM WHEN YOU CLAIM A DOC ACTION. The Mafia KNOWS who actually got saved. Thank you for listening to my TED talk.

N2 was STP. He visited no one.

brewers- 905 LS - 605 Ferastical - 298 Crozier Captain - 285 Torres951 - 273 That sounds cool! Eogrim - 240 King Cankles - 172 Rhizo - 166 murphpk - 163 Theophilos - 143 RR - 139 Hertt - 114 dagonslayer51 - 111 SealTeamPi - 103 AngelCruzdelaSant - 87 MWilson - 84 Fermion- 81 Tony Maurice- 78 Samudragupta - 49 George Jarvis - 46 legoboyvdlp - 24 Lachiton - 21 Mazuurek - 19 Jarcine1221 - 18 captainjf - 17 Yowza! spike2 - 14 myrrdin Emrys - 13 MorganFreeman - 13 Yamuna - 13 theWanderer - 11 PenguiNation - 11 LegendOfStein - 9 JayMillz - 6 Leche06 - 6 Odbody - 5 Mandarijn - 4 Rolento - 4 Atliis - 4 Sithon - 3 Kaziocore - 3 sukmaindra9 - 3 1ceCream - 3 Colonel Medved - 3 Aztek - 3 Whitebeard - 2 SaveStation - 2 cmdrnchf - 2 Robert2424 - 1 Omahen - 1 Red General - 1 baldeagle92 -1

MILCOM would like to know your location

brewers- 905 LS - 605 Ferastical - 297 Crozier Captain - 279 Torres951 - 272 Eogrim - 240 King Cankles - 172 Rhizo - 166 murphpk - 163 Theophilos - 143 RR - 139 Hertt - 114 dagonslayer51 - 111 SealTeamPi - 103 AngelCruzdelaSant - 87 MWilson - 84 Fermion- 81 Tony Maurice- 73 - the number 1 spammer torres won't be happy Samudragupta - 49 George Jarvis - 46 legoboyvdlp - 24 Lachiton - 21 Mazuurek - 19 Jarcine1221 - 18 captainjf - 17 Yowza! spike2 - 14 myrrdin Emrys - 13 MorganFreeman - 13 Yamuna - 13 theWanderer - 11 PenguiNation - 11 LegendOfStein - 9 JayMillz - 6 Leche06 - 6 Odbody - 5 Mandarijn - 4 Rolento - 4 Atliis - 4 Sithon - 3 Kaziocore - 3 sukmaindra9 - 3 1ceCream - 3 Colonel Medved - 3 Aztek - 3 Whitebeard - 2 SaveStation - 2 cmdrnchf - 2 Robert2424 - 1 Omahen - 1 Red General - 1 baldeagle92 -1

The strategy is not about not hunting scum, it's about waiting for anything, literally anything that could positively confirm who scum is. There is definitely not a 20% chance that we will lynch scum, it's rather much lower. You are forgetting the human aspect of this, scum will talk their way out and we will most definitely end up lynching a townie. Add a NK to that, and we've already lost 2 influential people. No Lynch is a no-brainer. Vote: No Lynch

I mean, I really hope I didn't just strengthen his fake claim by mistake... But, as no one thus far has CCed, it's just becoming more obvious that Tony is an RB. And well, since we started N0, confusion may happen. Additional information I thought would be useful: N1, I tracked MK, and he visited Canik. What I think went down is, that MK and LWW were in the same scum faction, MK found out that Canik was also scum-aligned, but they could confirm that he wasn't in their faction, so they decided to get rid of him without letting the town know*. Canik was also on the KevinH wagon. Very likely we have 3 scum down already. ^^

brewers- 905 LS - 605 Ferastical - 296 Crozier Captain - 279 Torres951 - 271 Eogrim - 240 King Cankles - 172 Rhizo - 166 murphpk - 163 Theophilos - 143 RR - 139 Hertt - 114 dagonslayer51 - 111 SealTeamPi - 103 AngelCruzdelaSant - 87 MWilson - 84 Fermion- 81 Tony Maurice- 73 - the number 1 spammer torres won't be happy Samudragupta - 49 George Jarvis - 46 legoboyvdlp - 24 Lachiton - 21 Mazuurek - 19 Jarcine1221 - 18 captainjf - 17 Yowza! spike2 - 14 myrrdin Emrys - 13 MorganFreeman - 13 Yamuna - 13 theWanderer - 11 PenguiNation - 11 LegendOfStein - 9 JayMillz - 6 Leche06 - 6 Odbody - 5 Mandarijn - 4 Rolento - 4 Atliis - 4 Sithon - 3 Kaziocore - 3 sukmaindra9 - 3 1ceCream - 3 Colonel Medved - 3 Aztek - 3 Whitebeard - 2 SaveStation - 2 cmdrnchf - 2 Robert2424 - 1 Omahen - 1 Red General - 1 baldeagle92 -1

So you're claiming to be a tracker and you tracked Tony last night and got role blocked? Affirmative. Pretty sure that's how it works though, if you target a roleblocker as an Investigative role, you get RBed yourself? That's why I wanted to make sure that there were no other RBers in the game too.

Yeah, I actually believe Tony is genuinely a RB, because I have reason to. I'm claim myself as a town tracker. Last night, I targeted Tony, got roleblocked. Simple as that.

brewers- 905 LS - 605 Ferastical - 295 let's not forget the common goal here (beating brewers) Crozier Captain - 275 Torres951 - 268 We did it at the same time Eogrim - 240 King Cankles - 172 Rhizo - 166 murphpk - 163 Theophilos - 143 RR - 139 Hertt - 114 dagonslayer51 - 111 SealTeamPi - 103 AngelCruzdelaSant - 87 MWilson - 84 Fermion- 81 Tony Maurice- 73 - the number 1 spammer torres won't be happy Samudragupta - 49 George Jarvis - 46 legoboyvdlp - 24 Lachiton - 21 Mazuurek - 19 Jarcine1221 - 18 captainjf - 17 Yowza! spike2 - 14 myrrdin Emrys - 13 MorganFreeman - 13 Yamuna - 13 theWanderer - 11 PenguiNation - 11 LegendOfStein - 9 JayMillz - 6 Leche06 - 6 Odbody - 5 Mandarijn - 4 Rolento - 4 Atliis - 4 Sithon - 3 Kaziocore - 3 sukmaindra9 - 3 1ceCream - 3 Colonel Medved - 3 Aztek - 3 Whitebeard - 2 SaveStation - 2 cmdrnchf - 2 Robert2424 - 1 Omahen - 1 Red General - 1 baldeagle92 -1

Another new day shines bright, another mafia game awaiting to play. What a lovely morning this is! Let's enjoy this peace and quiet while we still can