16 replies to this topic

[Baldr]

Some of you guys may have some advice.

 

My computer is old.  It's reasonably fast at 2.8 ghz, but it has 1 gig of memory, no video card (just on-board video), a small power supply, and the CD/DVD died a year ago.  Replacing the CD isn't as easy as you would think - it's IDE, and nobody sells IDE drives anymore.

 

So I want a new system and I've been shopping around.  I want something that will play games, bigger, faster, better.  I want a window in the case, with LED lights.  Water cooling.  Fast.  With cool stuff.  Possibly a miniature roller coaster inside the case, with tiny little shrunken people.

 

Naturally, I want it all for $200, but the people selling this crap want closer to $1500.  Ah, well.

 

I think I'm going to start with a "base" system, and in some places where it will be easy to upgrade later, I'll cut some corners, then in a month or two, add whatever.  For instance, no video card at first, but plan to get a pretty good one later.  I don't actually game a lot,  but I'd like to be able to at least run games - my current computer pretty much doesn't let me do that.  (Even when the CD/DVD was working.)

 

Okay, so what do I want ?
And how much will it cost ?

Cooler Master Storm Scout 2
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7348072
SGC-2100-GWN1 (gunmetal gray)
$99.99

Processor
Intel Core i3-3220 3.30 GHz 3MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1155
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116775
$129.99
My plan is "Get an i3 for now, and in a few months, upgrade to i7".  Costs a little more, but saves money up front
and lets me put off some of the expense until later.

Cooler Master Seidon 120M Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7358959&Sku=&SRCCODE=MDOTTD&MobileOptOut=1
44.99
I do want water cooling.  Not particularly set on this one, could swap around.

Motherboard
[CrossFireX] GIGABYTE GA-Z77-HD3 Intel Z77 Chipset DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ IRST, Ultra Durable 4 Classic, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, 2x Gen3 PCIe x16, 2x PCIe x1 & 2 PCI (Extreme OC Certified)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128582
108.99
Not sure if this is ideal, and it's an area I want a good one up front, so I may want to upgrade this.
Everything else is pretty much built around the motherboard and case, so be sure this is the one I want.

Memory
8GB (4GBx2) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory, Corsair Vengence
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145345
$64.99
I want 16GB, or more, but 8 will get me off to a good start, can add more later.  Board should take 4 modules.
I'm not positive, but I think I can do 2 4GB modules now, and then add 2 8GB modules later for 24GB total if I want.

Video Card
None to start out.  Use on-board video to get going, buy a good graphics card later.
I'm leaning towards a card that can support 3 monitors, in the $300-$400 range.

Corsair CMPSU-850TXV2 Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 Power Supply
850 Watts, ATX, 140mm Fan, 80 Plus Bronze, SLI Ready, Active PFC CP-9020043-NA
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7195039&Sku=C13-2804
124.99
Check around, I think Corsair has some other 850 watt power supplies.

Hard drive - SSD
128GB Corsair Force GS Series
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233395
129.99
Will eventually add a real hard drive (see below) but wills start out with the SDD only.

CD/DVD
24X Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289
$17.99

Microsoft® Windows 8 Pro (64-bit Edition) would cost $135 from them.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4864603
134.99 from tigerdirect.  

No keyboard or mouse or monitor.  I have all of those, and can easily go shopping for new ones later if I want.


99.99
129.99
44.99
108.99
64.99
124.99
129.99
17.99
134.99
= $856.91

That should be roughly my total for the base system.  

I'll want to add at least one or two fans.
I'll need to get thermal compound. (I'm told that what comes with the chip isn't very good, to get good stuff.)
I'd like to add a few lights.
So figure another $40 or $50 in "misc".

And I think I'll have someone else help put it together.  Rick, most likely.  He's a casual friend who has done some of this kind of thing in previous jobs, and he's currently out of work. I figure if I pay him $100 for the help, I can sort of "do it myself", but have him there so I know it gets done right.

That puts me at very close to $1,000 up front.
Additional costs later for i7 CPU ($320) and video card ($100-$400 ?) and hard drive ($95.03).
Possibly more memory.

I haven't included a real HD, getting a SSD instead, but I want an actual drive, also.  I plan to add that later, to spread out the costs while letting me get going ASAP.

This one looks good.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3844179
Western Digital WD2500HHTZ VelociRaptor
250GB, SATA 6 Gb/s, 3.5 Inch, 10,000 RPM, 64 MB Cache
$95.03
This sucker is faster than hell, and uses a polycarbonate window so you can see the stuff working inside.

 

Very cool, though I don't know how visible that will be in a case. It would be worth comparing prices on their bigger versions (500GB, 1000GB) but I really don't think I need more storage.
 

So.  Suggestions?  Comments?

Edited by Baldr, 24 March 2013 - 12:31 AM.

[chronoz]

`I don't like the 10K VelociRaptor drive. They were nice for servers when SSD's weren't available yet and you needed high IO.

Also find a way to get the Windows license cheaper, paying Microsoft $134.99 for it, argh, I don't know. Maybe see if you can use the Windows 7 license of a friend or just download it.

Intel Core i5 3350P is an awesome processor. It's the same processor as the Intel Core i5 3570K (+$60), but without the on-board VGA.

I would personally not overspend on the motherboard for extra features, a very expensive case and on cooling too much, especially if it means you're spending $70 less on the processor, getting an i3 instead of an i5 3350P or 3570K, depending if you want the VGA.

I would just pick the Samsung 128GB disk, they're popular. I have been using 128GB as a disk for many years now and it's enough space for me, I use 70GB including 15GB for the pagefile and hibernation file. I have 50GB free, although I don't have that many big installations, UT2004 takes 5GB, EU3 2GB, Adobe CS5 3GB, VMware 1GB, Office 2GB, but no applications/games that use 10GB+ individually. For gamers of course an installation get quickly make up 15GB. You might consider getting a SATA 2GB storage disk for that purpose.

[Baldr]

I just realized I didn't have a wireless card on there, and obviously I'll be wanting to get online.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=33-704-133

$44.99.  Not the cheapest by any means, but looks like a better one than most. 

[Baldr]

I don't think you really need an i7. I have an i5 2500k (overclocked to
4.0 GHz) and I play all my games just fine (WoW, D3, SC2, PSO2). You
wont notice much a difference from your old cpu which was at 2.8 ghz to
the i3 3.3 ghz since they are both dual core. Seems like a waste of
$130.

 

I probably don't *need* a lot of what I'm looking at. 

 

The i3 won't be a major upgrade to the chip I have now, but I'm not going to move the CPU from my current (old) computer to my new rig, so I have to get a CPU.  The only reason to get the i3 at first and upgrade later is to lower my initial cost.  It does add $130 to the overall long term cost (assuming I upgrade later as expected.) 

 

The i3 will be somewhat faster than the P4 I have now.  3.3ghz compared to 2.8 is faster up front, but there are other differences.  The p4 has one core, i3 has dual core.  Probably more important is that the P4 has 3Mb cache while i3 has 4Mb.  Extra cache on a CPU can make a big difference in overall speed.  They came out with several CPU's in between the two, and the architecture gets upgraded (and faster) each time, so it should be faster, though that's not a primary concern.

 

I'm not getting a new computer for processing speed.  My old one has a fast enough processor.  But it's a Dell, lots of Dell only parts.  It has a small power supply, so I can't add a good video card.  It has very limited memory.  It's IDE based, and the CD/DVD player is dead.  It's stuff like that that makes me need a new computer.

 

I probably don't really need the i7, but I certainly want the option of moving.  The motherboard needs to support it, for instance.  If I start with the i3, either I'll be happy with it, or I'll upgrade to the i7.  If, the day I decide "I'm buying it now", I decide that I want to spend a little more, I might get the i5, but if I do that, I'm less likely to move to the i7 later.  Part of what I want is to have a hot-shot computer.  And that means i7.

 

Also, look up stuff on SSD's since they aren't like regular Hard Drives
so you cant defrag an SSD since there are no moving parts on it.

 

It's not so much that you "can't" defrag them - but there is no reason to.  It's memory, not a disk.  Nothing has to move into place to read something that isn't stored right after the other part.  With spinning platters and read/write heads that move, all of that is important.  Reading memory, it doesn't really matter which order they are in.  SSD's do slow down slightly as they get more and more use, and they do have limited use.  But those limits are high enough I don't expect to reach them, and even a well used "slower than it used to be" SSD is still vastly faster than even the VelociRaptor spinning disk drives.

 

The motherboard isnt bad, but it will make you use an AMD graphics card
since it supports Crossfire which is running 2 AMD GPU at the same time.
You could fine a board that supports both like the http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157293
which supports both Crossfire and SLI until you decide on what kind of
graphics card you want. But this only really matters if you want to run 2
GPUs at once.

 

I think I need more research into this.  I didn't realize that using any particular motherboard would limit you to specific lines of graphics cards, as long as you had the correct slot.  I don't understand Crossfire/SLI at all.

 

I do know that eventually I want to run at lest 2 monitors, and preferably 3.  Possibly 3 for gaming, even, but mainly I want a primary monitor for gaming, and 1 or 2 others on the sides for when I'm not gaming.  Programming, it's very helpful to have program code on one screen, use another screen to run the program you are developing, and a 3rd screen where you can have email, IRC, a webpage, or whatever.  I've used multiple montor systems before, and it's a big bump in productivity.  Plus, as I've mentioned, I want a cool looking system, and 3 monitor systems look cool. 

 

I know there are at least some high end graphic cards that will support 3 monitors on one card.  I also know there are some that will do 2 monitors per card, and  you can plug in 2 or more cards.  I don't know exactly what I'll end up with, but I need to make sure the motherboard doesn't limit me when I get to that part.  I expect the graphics card(s) and adding multiple monitors will be another significant expense when I get there, which is why I'm planning to start out with on-board graphics and add all that later.  It just spreads the cost out a bit.

[Baldr]

I don't like the 10K VelociRaptor drive. They were nice for servers when SSD's weren't available yet and you needed high IO.

 

Obviously it won't be as fast as an SSD, which is why I'll have the SSD as my primary boot disk.  But it should be much faster than any other actual spinning platter hard drive at a much lower price range than a SSD.

 

I don't plan to get it right away, until I start feeling space issues on the SSD, and if I'm lucky, SSD prices will fall by then.

 

For gamers of course an installation get quickly make up 15GB. You might
consider getting a SATA 2GB storage disk for that purpose.

 

And that's where the velociraptor would come in, if needed.

 

I may not need it.  I don't game a whole lot, and I expect that what would happen is that I'd have 1 or 2 games I was interested in.  I could install those on the SSD and play from there.  If I quit playing one of those and started a new game, I could un-install the one I wasn't playing anymore, install the new one, save space that way.  If I get tired of doing that (or find that I want a bunch of games already installed ready to go) then I would add the data drive.  If I'm going to add a data drive, it may as well be a fast one.

 

I'd rather have a really fast 250 GB drive than a slower 1 TB drive.  I may use a lot more space if I'm gaming than I do now, but 250 GB is a lot.

 

My current hard drive is 128 GB.  I'm only using around 40 GB of that, after several years.  No games, of course, and that's WinXP, not Win8, but even so, that looks like a lot of extra room.  I'm hoping a 128GB SSD will keep me going for awhile.

[Schmoo]

i5 3570k is far and away the best processor choice. I have been more than pleased with its performance. I built a similar system last fall for just over $900. I went budget on a few things that are easily replaced, and went for the i5 and a basic gforce 570ti grapgics card. Nothing lags, ever, and the video and graphics are perfect on a $100 24" samsung hd monitor.  You will want a hard drive as well, even a cheap one will do. I only keep operating system and a select few games on a 128 ssd and it is always near full. Media files will eat up space quickly. Either way it looks like you have a solid system in mind so far. Shop around for parts!

 

EDIT: I forgot. Water cooling takes more care and attention, and will cost more than a good fan system. I saved a few bucks and work 9 fans with a good heatsink. It never overheats. I haven't overclocked anything though.

Edited by Schmoo, 24 March 2013 - 11:29 PM.

[Lorikz Kain]

Honestly 90% of people will never need the full power of an i7, even the most demanding games don't use all that power. I would recommend saving the money by putting up for an ivy bridge i5 and saving what would have been spent on the i7 and investing it instead into the graphics card. (unless you do some crazy media editing then the i7 will be of benefit)

 

Too many people bitch out on video cards and their almost awesome gaming pc becomes nothing more than an overly expensive pos but sounds like you're already planning on dropping a good amount on a card so should be fine.

 

I have both a velociraptor and ssd and feel that the speed difference for the price is negligible.

 

For the OS, if you get an OEM version its only 100$.

 

I have used arctic silver thermal paste in all builds I've done, never seen an issue with it.

 

That's all I have off top my head.

[Blade 619]

Unless you love win 8, don't get it. Stick with win 7 for game compatibility. Also... do you REALLY want to pay that much for an OS? 

[Baldr]

Pricing for Win 7 Pro is pretty much the same, I think, as Win 8 Pro.

 

Samus argued for Win 8.  I'd been planning to do Win 7.  I'm not really set on either one,

 

By the time I'm done, I'll be lucky if I'm under $1500 total.  Having an OS is a requirement, and since I don't want to run linux....

 

I usually run some sort of distributed computing project.  Prime 95, for instance, though I run others from time to time.  Many of you will remember seti@home, which isn't one I ran, but it's a well known example of distributed computing projects. 

 

I think I need to find a different motherboard.  And I'm hearing a lot of advice about "If you're using a SSD to boot, don't bother with the velociraptor, a 7200 drive is cheaper and will do what you want.".

[Lorikz Kain]

Pricing for Win 7 Pro is pretty much the same, I think, as Win 8 Pro.

 

Samus argued for Win 8.  I'd been planning to do Win 7.  I'm not really set on either one,

 

By the time I'm done, I'll be lucky if I'm under $1500 total.  Having an OS is a requirement, and since I don't want to run linux....

 

I usually run some sort of distributed computing project.  Prime 95, for instance, though I run others from time to time.  Many of you will remember seti@home, which isn't one I ran, but it's a well known example of distributed computing projects. 

 

I think I need to find a different motherboard.  And I'm hearing a lot of advice about "If you're using a SSD to boot, don't bother with the velociraptor, a 7200 drive is cheaper and will do what you want.".

 

I keep my OS on the SSD, select games on the Velociraptor, and everything else on standard drives... the speed difference isn't anything amazing but I like it, more of a personal choice thing but ya you don't NEED it.

 

I don't really like the layout of Win 8 but overall performance wise its basically exactly comparable to win 7. Compatibility issues for games is almost a non issue, there are still games with issues but overall its not that bad.

 

I like to spend a little more on my mobo because no matter how fast your other components are they are they all will be limited by the mobo. You can find comparisons of the chipsets used and narrow down your search through what you want/need.

[Baldr]

Purely for "bling" factor, there are some DDR3 modules with built in LED's.

 

crucial ballistix tactical tracer

http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?imodule=BLT8G3D1608DT2TXRG

 

GeiL Black Dragons

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=20-144-563&Tpk=N82E16820144563

 

Youtube has videos of those.  Crucial has a much better reputation of the two.

[Blade 619]

Pricing for Win 7 Pro is pretty much the same, I think, as Win 8 Pro.

 

Samus argued for Win 8.  I'd been planning to do Win 7.  I'm not really set on either one,

 

By the time I'm done, I'll be lucky if I'm under $1500 total.  Having an OS is a requirement, and since I don't want to run linux....

 

I usually run some sort of distributed computing project.  Prime 95, for instance, though I run others from time to time.  Many of you will remember seti@home, which isn't one I ran, but it's a well known example of distributed computing projects. 

 

I think I need to find a different motherboard.  And I'm hearing a lot of advice about "If you're using a SSD to boot, don't bother with the velociraptor, a 7200 drive is cheaper and will do what you want.".

 

What's your current OS? If you're scrapping the old thing then you could use the same code... alternatively someone might have a spare key code knocking around you could use... the pro price is a rip for teh added functionality.

[anshuman94]

Unless you are going for a touch screen/something like it, DO NOT go for Windows 8. Rather go for windows 7 (pirated/original idc).

Though your arguments abt SSD are good, but a 7200 rpm high capacity HDD should cost abt the smae if not less. The speed penalty wont be much and so far there's not much use for SSD ryt now, perhaps it will in future...However if you are planning to go for SSD, i wont say anything against it. 

SInce you are starting out with plenty of RAM, I recommend going for Mobo with good onboard graphics cards, they would handle a lot of games without the external cards. 

 

As for processor, I dont recommend going for i3 and then upgrading to i7....as pointed out earlier, i5 is good enough, but I would recommend you to consider AMD processors as well (perhaps some FX series processor)

I had seen AMD FX8350 8-core processor to cost around  $180-190 - it is a high end gaming processor, with better benchmarks than some i7 CPUs as well

check 'em out here http://cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

 

idk much abt the cooling systems, so i cant such anything abt them. 

 

PS: I dont know how it would be taken here, but perhaps you could save a couple of hundred bucks by reusing the previous OS, or not going for an original OS, if you know what i mean .....even linux is a good option

[Baldr]

This project just died.  I got word at work yesterday that heavy layoffs are coming.  I don't have an exact date yet, but I expect I'll be out of work in 3 or 4 weeks, possibly sooner.

 

So if I do anything about getting a system, it'll be a very basic system, nothing like what we've been discussing.  Most likely, I won't get a new system until I'm working again.  There is a very good chance I can move back to my old job.  I made a point of leaving on good terms just in case.  It doesn't pay nearly as well, but I was getting by on it before, so I suspect I can again.

Edited by Baldr, 26 March 2013 - 03:19 PM.

[Baldr]

I scaled back a bit, but I decided I was going to do something, and I didn't end up scaling back as much as I thought I would.

 

Over the past couple of days I've placed several orders.  This should be all the basics except a video card and maybe some additional fans.

 

- - - -

From NewEgg

1 x ($109.99) SAMSUNG 840 Series MZ-7TD120BW 2.5" 120GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$109.99

1 x ($44.99) TP-LINK TL-WDN4800 Dual Band Wireless N900 PCI Express Adapter, 2.4GHz 450Mbps/5GHz 450Mbps, IEEE 802.1a/b/g/n, WEP/WPA/WPA2
$44.99

1 x ($4.99) Rosewill RTK-002 Anti-Static Wrist Strap
$4.99

1 x ($129.99) Intel Core i3-3220 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz LGA 1155 55W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2500 BX80637i33220
$129.99

1 x ($79.99) CORSAIR CX600M 600W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$79.99

1 x ($74.99) Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - OEM
$74.99

1 x ($69.99) COOLER MASTER Seidon 120M RL-S12M-24PK-R1 Water Cooler
$69.99

1 x ($62.99) G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL
$62.99

1 x ($17.99) LITE-ON DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM
$17.99

1 x ($-8.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #1269131
$-8.00

1 x ($-14.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #1249468
$-14.00

- - - -

Local from Fry's.
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS ATX LGA1155 Motherboard
144.99

(Also an $8 set of speakers.)

- - - -

From TigerDirect

 

Cooler Master Storm Scout II SGC-2100-GWN1 Gaming Mid Tower - ATX, 3x5.25" Drive Bays, 7x3.5" Drive Bays, 2x2.5" Drive Bays, 4xUSB Ports, 2xAudio Ports, 7xExp Slots, 1x120mm Fan, Gunmetal (C283-1227)
$99.99
      
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium GFC-02050 Operating System Software - 64bit, DVD (M17-7302)
$90.99
      
ADATA AC008-8G-RWE C008 Retractable USB Flash Drive - 8GB, USB 2.0, Plug & Play, White / Blue (A208-1406)
$5.99
 

- - - - - -

 

Quite a few of these have "rebates".  I hate those things, and don't really trust companies to send the rebates, but I'll file 'em.  They total out at a little over $100.

[DarkIceDragon]

You've already placed the orders right?

I just wanted to pop in & say that you don't need more than 8GB of RAM if you're gaming. And check out this forum, it has loads of resources and guides to build a computer too: http://www.tomshardware.com/

 

Oh, and hi guys