288 replies to this topic

[KevinH]

Captain8Track makes a very passionate and somewhat convincing case, just like Mole.

I like his rebuttals and to keep things interesting, I will support him.

Vote: Molestargazer

I like Mole's analysis but I think he's good enough to write it like that even while scum.

[Narsis]

i must say that i am torn.... both cases are good and make sense. to be honest though...a part of me feels that mole's is stronger.

Vote: captain8track

i pray i make the right choice...

[Sir Jesus]

Official Vote Count
2 - molestargazer (captain8track,KevinH)
1 - Narsis (CanucksDynasty)
3 - captain8track (molestargazer,Curu,Narsis)

[molestargazer]

C8T - I haven't got time to read all that now, but a few points I can address that I saw whilst flicking through.

1) It doesn't take you 6 pages to learn how to play the game. That's just an excuse for not contributing. I have exams right now. It doesn't stop me from contributing - there's evenings to post in as well as days.
2) How in the blue f*ck can this case be OMGUS? Trust me, I really don't care about the Ad-Hom debate. It's all part of playing mafia. I understand your voting for me, I understand the reasons - but you're wrong.

I'll address the rest of them when I get back.
Now, gotta go. Law exam won't write itself.

[captain8track]

C8T - I haven't got time to read all that now, but a few points I can address that I saw whilst flicking through.

1) It doesn't take you 6 pages to learn how to play the game. That's just an excuse for not contributing. I have exams right now. It doesn't stop me from contributing - there's evenings to post in as well as days.

Actually, yeah, it can. And if you want to be equal about this, you need to start calling out all the others who are laying dormant in this conversation. Please let them all know that you have personal expectations about how often they need to be posting.
And if you look at the dates on my posts, they are pretty regular- about one a day.

2) How in the blue f*ck can this case be OMGUS? Trust me, I really don't care about the Ad-Hom debate. It's all part of playing mafia. I understand your voting for me, I understand the reasons - but you're wrong.

It seems a little coincidental that you pick only three people to analyze as scum. The first two, you claim, are both almost above suspicion (so why bother to even pick them? Unless you're only using them to contrast against #3). The last one you claim is completely scummy. That last one, however, just happens to have been calling you scum for a few days now.


Guys, I'm telling you, when you lynch me and I turn out townie, it's going to be a little late to lynch Mole.

[molestargazer]

1) I will be tomorrow - but right now, it isn't my major concern. See below.

2) I picked them because they were the 3 remaining people who voted for Falzis.
I DIDN'T pick them on the basis of prior suspicion. Which I said when I posted, just before I started KevinH's.

More to come later on everything else you posted.

[molestargazer]

You're right, I'm a newbie. I didn't know how the game was played. Still don't, really. And I get the feeling you're rolling your eyes every time I mention I haven't played Mafia before, but it's the truth, so that's why I keep reiterating it.

My first post was so "oh my god you suck" because I had no idea of the proper tone for this game. I thought it might be "first person"-type response- you know, "post it like it's really happening." That elicited a bunch of "WTF" and "is this your first game?" responses, so those were clear signs that I was mistaken. So my tone changed.

I didn't give you the +1 for the OMGUS. I let you off that.
I knew you'd never played before, and that was a perfectly OK reaction to it. The +1 was for the lurking.

Lurking for two reasons:
1) trying to figure out how it works
2) I actually *do* have a day job in RL

If you want to lynch me for taking my time to figure out how the game is played, you're certainly able to. But it doesn't seem logical.

1) Not an excuse. Post actively, ask questions, try and help out.
2) Unless those 3 pages all took place in the space of a day, this isn't an excuse.

Yes. I thought you two were constantly posting to try and control the conversation, and settle the focus on whoever you wanted- and that you were trying to lynch a townie. That was my suspicion.

I think it very unlikely that someone would have thought that we were both scum when we were clearly going for each other's guts. Also, had we wanted to lynch a townie, we would've both been MAFIA - since druggies would want to kill mafia.
I'm not really sure what this makes you. If anything, it's a nulltell.

I'm not the only one who wasn't posting. I don't recall Curu posting that much either. I got the impression that he was new(ish?) at this because his responses seemed, kind of like mine, to not "measure up" to the expectations of others on the board. At least that was the impression I got from responses to his posts.

I'm sure you weren't the only one.
However, Curu wasn't the focus of my readthroughs, the reasons for which I've explained to you in my more recent, shorter posts. And pointing others out doesn't excuse you.

It's not fence-sitting. I was saying I believe you are BOTH scum. I was suspicious of both of you, and I still am.
I would also point out that it seems to be impossible to make a solid case in this game. All you can ever do is quote somebody's posts back at them. That's not "solid," by any reasonable definition.

1) At the time, did you think I was Mafia, Druggie, or that I could be either?
2) That's fair enough. I would define a "solid" case in mafia as one that has a couple of quotes with reasonings as to why their logic is faulty and/or why that makes them scum.

I used the word "blatant" because, from reading the Mafia wiki, your actions appeared blatantly what a druggie would want to do. You led attention directly to someone, kept the focus on them, and as a result the town wound up lynching a mafia.

Understood.

I didn't think it was "very convincing." I don't think it was "very convincing." Remember? I used the word "flippant." You cast a vote without providing any rationale. And I also remember you calling others out later on, when they cast votes without, in your eyes, adequately justifying them. You voted to lynch without providing any reason. That's flippant.

1) This seems to contradict your previous point saying that you thought my vote was serious. Surely you can't be both serious and flippant about it?
2) I did not, I never vote without reasons. That's my #1 pet hate in mafia. I gave the WIFOM and breadcrumb reasongs at the time.

I wish I could see what # reply each post was, so I could just refer you to that post. But I thought he gave several insightful posts on page #2, including the flowchart of possible outcomes ("If we lynch a townie on Day 1," et cetera).

1) So do I, actually, that's one thing that's getting on my nerves about this forum. You can't get a link to them either.
2) Whilst it may have been useful setup-wise, I personally class 'insighftul' as posts such as ours right now, pointing out who we think is scum and why.

Actually, I didn't (and don't) have a clue if they're mafia or druggies- I was thinking they might be ONE of the two, but I don't know which. They might be mafia, they might be druggies. I can see why you'd want people to jump to conclusions that I thought they were mafia though.

I thought it was Canucks who said 'KevinH or Narsis as some type of scum'. At least, that's the vibe I got from the quote you stuck in above this post.
If it was you... I use "scum" as "mafia". Just how I take it.

The logic was very weak. It's a classic ad hominem. I state my grounds for suspecting you as scum, and you simply reply (in about ten words or less) "maybe YOU'RE scum." That doesn't further the game. That doesn't help anybody decide anything. It's ad hominem.

The logic was weak, but it was there.
I certainly understand why you think it's Ad Hom - I'm just giving you my reasonings for saying why I don't think it is. We evidently differ in opinion.

You're second-guessing me, I'm second-guessing you; everybody is second-guessing everybody else. It's WIFOM.

Whilst I hate to nit-pick, no.
WIFOM is about what the mafia would do - the name WIFOM comes from 'Wine in Front of Me', from a movie where someone has to guess whether someone would poison their own glass or their enemies' with no prior reasonings behind this guess other than personality.
Mafia revolves around looking at what people have said, why they might have said it, etc.

You can always respond that way: "but I'm a townie." I don't think you are. Your words aren't convincing. Actions are convincing. Words are cheap.

Just as you can always reply "I'm a townie."
Fair enough, however.

This entire post seems to be a "oh my god you suck" post, veiled in pseudo-logic. You claim to be making an impartial investigation of three suspects. The first two, you claim, more innocent than the last. But the third suspect? The one you save for last? The one who just *happened* to be loudly and logically stating the case for your lynching- *that one* just happens to be emphatically scum?!

Sure seems like "oh my god you suck" to me. Like you're saying, "Lynch me? Oh no, buddy, lynch you!"

Oh, please.
Pseudo-logic? The logic is there, right in front of you. I'm giving you my thoughts.

It was COMPLETELY impartial. I made the posts in the order in which they voted for Falzis. KevinH first. Then Narsis. Then You. My leaving you 'til last had NOTHING to do with whether I thought you were scum. You'll also see this if you read the first bit of my post before I started with KevinH. This should've been obvious to anyone who read it.

I'm not scum. Not a druggie, not a mafia. I know that. And I know those words don't help convince anybody else.
So judge me by my actions. On day one, I thought Mole was scum. That's why I voted for him. Then, when it looked like we wouldn't get to lynch anybody because of a tie, I changed my vote to avert that tie. I settled on my next-most-suspicious candidate, Falzis. He was proven to be scum. That encouraged me to follow my instincts and refocus on Mole.
That's been my thought process the entire time.

And I'm not knocking you for that train of thought.

Mole was the first person to focus our attention on Falzis. Mole led the charge that resulted in the lynch of Falzis. Falzis was proven to be a mafia then. Lynching a mafia is exactly what a drug dealer would want us all to do.

I'm sure there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. But that was pure luck.

These responses, whilst some good points are made, have done little to persuade me of C8T's innocence right now. Feel free to continue to respond - I'll reply the best I can.
But please, don't let the more emotional post judge your vote. Look at the logic, and look at the facts.

[KevinH]

You can quote multiple individual posts on this forum.

• Click the button at the bottom of each post that you want to quote.
• Go all the way to the bottom of the page and click the button

I wish I could see what # reply each post was, so I could just refer you to that post.

So do I, actually, that's one thing that's getting on my nerves about this forum. You can't get a link to them either.

The above quotes have links created by using the technique stated in the first post. What I don't like is that a "quote of a quote" doesn't come through.

[molestargazer]

True. But I'm still stuck in phpBB2 mode, where each post has a number, and a little button next to each post so you can link to it.
It's far easier than having to use the forum's way of quoting just to get a link.

[CanucksDynasty]

Each one has made their case.
But I'll go with my original suspicion.

Unvote: Narsis
Vote: molestargazer

CD.

[CanucksDynasty]

@ Sir Jesus - I'll be gone for a week (on vacation) and will be back on June 1st. If you want to replace me...go right ahead. If it's OK to let the game drag on until I get back...that would be great.

Thanks,
CD.

[molestargazer]

Canucks - Can you confirm that you have read all of the cases?
I'd like to see at least a few comments as to why I might be wrong before you jump on the wagon against me.

You said yourself, when I first thought of this idea:

Sure...go right ahead.

I'd like to see what you think about how it's turned out, and why you still don't believe my claim to be a townie.

Jumping on like this just makes you look suspicious.

[CanucksDynasty]

Canucks - Can you confirm that you have read all of the cases?
I'd like to see at least a few comments as to why I might be wrong before you jump on the wagon against me.

You said yourself, when I first thought of this idea:


I'd like to see what you think about how it's turned out, and why you still don't believe my claim to be a townie.

Jumping on like this just makes you look suspicious.

I did indeed read all the cases made by you and captain8track. Both of you have some compelling arguements. However...he is correct in that you zeroed in on Falzis and kept hammering that point. Was it a lucky guess or was it a druggie laying a vote on mafia? Not sure. But what I do know is that if captain8track was druggie...then why would he be the last to put the hammervote? It would draw so much suspicion.

Why is my vote on you any less suspicious than KevinH vote on you?

And yeah...I said "Sure...go right ahead". I wanted to see what you thought of those that voted for Falzis. But that doesn't automatically mean I wouldn't vote for you. All in all...I believe captain8track to be more of a townie than you. It's just that simple.

CD.

[molestargazer]

I did what I did in an attempt to prove that I was pro-town.
I did impartial readthroughs, and you have my verdict. Everything I have said is backed up with quotes and my reasonings go along with it.

I understand you may be incredulous - this is all revolving around my vote of Falzis - but that had reasonings to. I played D1 looking for someone of an anti-town faction - and I found one.

There might be nothing I can do to convince you - but please, don't lose this game for the town by lynching me.

[KevinH]

Begin Day 2

By my count, the mafia day should end in 4 RL days on May 26.

Being tied is a no-lynch, which is the worst thing for the town. Although I lean toward Mole being the best candidate for a lynch, I'll switch my vote if nobody from the other side is willing to switch.

[CanucksDynasty]

I did what I did in an attempt to prove that I was pro-town.
I did impartial readthroughs, and you have my verdict. Everything I have said is backed up with quotes and my reasonings go along with it.

I understand you may be incredulous - this is all revolving around my vote of Falzis - but that had reasonings to. I played D1 looking for someone of an anti-town faction - and I found one.

There might be nothing I can do to convince you - but please, don't lose this game for the town by lynching me.

Well...

If you (Mole) are truly a townie...then that would make KevinH and captain8track as druggies (since I didn't vote for Falzis). And quite honestly...I don't think that is the case.

If captain8track is townie...then that would make you (Mole) and Narsis as the druggies (since Cur didn't vote for Falzis). Which is what I have been thinking all along.

Mind you...this is in my belief that 2 druggies voted for Falzis (which is pretty good damn odds).
CD.

[molestargazer]

If you (Mole) are truly a townie...then that would make KevinH and captain8track as druggies (since I didn't vote for Falzis). And quite honestly...I don't think that is the case.

It is possible that someone not on the Falzis wagon is a druggie - you can't always presume.
I simply narrowed it down to the 3 to have the best chances of successfully hitting a druggie, since it's almost certain that at least 1 was on the wagon - and I've concluded that it's C8T.

[CanucksDynasty]

It is possible that someone not on the Falzis wagon is a druggie - you can't always presume.
I simply narrowed it down to the 3 to have the best chances of successfully hitting a druggie, since it's almost certain that at least 1 was on the wagon - and I've concluded that it's C8T.

Yes it is possible that either Cur or myself could be the other druggie.
It is also possible that the other mafia voted to lynch his partner on D1.
All of it is possible...but not probable.

[molestargazer]

It's not probable that I'm a townie, but I am.
Mafia isn't all about probability. It's about reasoning. As you should know.

[KevinH]

I'll be gone for 48 hours.

Hopefully there will be some discussion to read when I get back.