46 replies to this topic

[Samus]

Two NYPD officers were apparently killed 'execution' style as a result of this whole failure to indict the two officers who killed two unarmed civilians.

 

http://nypost.com/2014/12/20/2-nypd-cops-shot-execution-style-in-brooklyn/

 

Also note this wasn't a specific race issue as the officers killed today were both of colour, its more a war on these 'thugs' with badges who are meant to be protecting the law.

 

This is a picture from the gunmans instagram prior to killing the cops:

 

 

I don't condone the killing, but this whole incident just reinforces my issue with America and its gun policies

[Koliny]

Guns don't kill people.

People kill people.

--

So i guess you still could say unchanged.

[Duderonomy]

A couple cops get killed like that every couple of years in America, whether due to narcos or crazy people. If we can't even keep drugs out of America, banning guns won't keep them out either. Given American culture, you'll just have a replay of the Prohibition era, with gangsters making tons of money selling guns to normally law-abiding people. At least half the people I know would keep or buy illegal guns if they had no other choice. Yeah, gun culture is just that ingrained here. I remember the Economist posting a chart showing that there were at least 3 guns for every person in the U.S. That is not going to go away.

 

If anything, the U.S. murder rate is declining despite being awash in guns. I credit video games for that (people spend less time getting drunk, high, or in social situations where they'll get angry), and believe the best thing you could do for crime is distribute game systems to poor families. Religion is a decent opiate for the masses, but games work better.

[DeathMerchant]

I remember heating a story last year told by a New York State Sheriff regarding one of his Deputies. The Sheriff Deputy was responding to an incident regarding an armed man somewhere around his residence. Upon arrival the Sheriff exited the vehicle and immediately took at least 1 rifle round. I believe he was shot a second time. The suspect was apprehended shortly after. During recovery the wounded Deputy was visited by his boss, the Sheriff, in the hospital. After talking with him for some time, the Sheriff asked the how the deputy views firearms now. He asked if he thought these 'assault rifles' should be banned. The deputy replied that his viewpoints on firearms have not changed even after being shot. The deputy still believes that it is a man or woman's right to keep and bear arms for defense. No one should be allowed to take away an individuals right to protect them self.

Only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Taking away the good guys gun will still allow the bad guy to keep his gun.

As someone who is law abiding even I can attest to how ridiculously easy it I to acquire an illegal firearm. Whether it be making one yourself, which building a single shot device using a .22 or small pistol cartridge is incredibly easy. Or designing a fully automatic recoil operated firearm also isn't too difficult. Then there are also numerous websites that exist in the dark web that offer firearms, drugs, and other illegal services. And there's always the find the guys who can sell you drugs, as one of them will likely know how to acquire a firearm. Illegally importing a firearm into a country also isn't that difficult if you know what your doing. Any country with land access to another country can do this with some ease.

This is all coming from someone who observed what other people have been doing. And in some course, in the event of acquaints I've known over the years. All of this people were inexperienced and still managed some degree of success. So I can safely say an expert on illegal activities would be able to achieve better results.

How do I know all this stuff without actually doing anything illegal? I graduated college with a criminal justice degree and partook in various criminal justice/political science clubs. Not only did I do lots of textbook reading, but I went beyond the course material to see what 'other world' really does exist out there. It truly is amazing to hear the things people are willing to share. People traditionally love to talk and subsequently spill secrets. Whether in accident or due to boasting. But I suppose this is a good fault of humanity. Many crimes have been solved and criminals sent to prison all because they felt the need to converse about their illegal activities.

[welder572]

Doesn't change my mind at all. If you want a gun, go buy one ( I have 3 legally bought handguns). If some one wants to kill some one, they will do it with or without a gun. I guess we should outlaw knives so no one can be stabbed to death?  We should outlaw ties so no one can be strangled with them? No more screwdrivers either, they could be used to kill some one too.

[Lanyaie]

Somehow I don't think criminals would care about guns being banned or not, they aren't known for being law abiding citizens after all. 

There are no guns in the country I currently live in, that doesn't mean that living here is safer. It simply means that if someone was to get into my house and point a gun at me, I'd have no way of defending myself.

 

Anyhow,I grew up in the US and my father had quite a large gun collection, he thought me about gun safety and what guns are for: protecting yourself.  
I don't understand why people think that guns being legal is a bad thing. I can guarantee you that with or without, it wouldn't make a noticeable difference in the amount of crimes involving guns..it would how ever make it harder for you to defend yourself.

[Malekith]

A Disarmed populace is a dangerous thing. 

[Lysistrata]

Good morning Master S... I knew someone would mention this. People are pissed.

 

I completely understand your position on this, but it will fall on deaf ears. This event will increase gun sales, and in the short term, not as many guns will be on the street. When police are getting gunned down while they're sitting in their cars, they will be on high alert and more likely to shoot first. This will make most criminal minds leave their heater in the closet. Not many really want to die.

 

This was a bad man, who did alot of bad things. The only teachers he ever had probably told him all his life that he had no chance to make it in this world... because he was black. He hated authority, wanted to kill cops, and wouldn't even allow the cops to kill him.

 

The real criminals here are Eric Holder, Bill De Blasio and Al Sharpton. They have created themselves a movement, based on "unity and solidarity", to get themselves some facetime on the TV... and bring together every looney left group of shit-heads, to get themselves some "dead cops". It's not the guns fault Master S... it's the people.

 

Edit: I forgot to include that racist on-his-way-out Attorney General... Eric "I belong in prison" Holder. What a tool.

Edited by Lysistrata, 21 December 2014 - 06:11 PM.

[Blade 619]

A Disarmed populace is a dangerous thing. 

 

For whom?

[Lysistrata]

 

A Disarmed populace is a dangerous thing. 

 

For whom?

 

When you make owning a gun a crime... only criminals will have guns.

[Samus]

Doesn't change my mind at all. If you want a gun, go buy one ( I have 3 legally bought handguns). If some one wants to kill some one, they will do it with or without a gun. I guess we should outlaw knives so no one can be stabbed to death?  We should outlaw ties so no one can be strangled with them? No more screwdrivers either, they could be used to kill some one too.

That point is irrelevant.

 

A knife was created for cutting items, generally food.

Ties are used for dressing occassions.

Screwdrivers are used to screw screws.

 

A guns only purpose is to kill or cause physical harm.

[Khandov]

And how convinient that NYC happens to be one of most restrictive places in terms of gun possesion...

 

The gun control in NYC must be not so well enforced, he? Or maybe the primary cause of crime is poverty, lack of perspectives, people spending all their life in slums, more than this/that much amount of people having a gun? If you live in a typical crime neighbourhood and you need a gun, no law is going to stop you.

[iSocialism]

 

Doesn't change my mind at all. If you want a gun, go buy one ( I have 3 legally bought handguns). If some one wants to kill some one, they will do it with or without a gun. I guess we should outlaw knives so no one can be stabbed to death?  We should outlaw ties so no one can be strangled with them? No more screwdrivers either, they could be used to kill some one too.

That point is irrelevant.

 

A knife was created for cutting items, generally food.

Ties are used for dressing occassions.

Screwdrivers are used to screw screws.

 

A guns only purpose is to kill or cause physical harm.

 

I begged a pardon on that one. I understand why the firearm was design, and yes as a weapon for lethal action. But not everyone owns a firearm so they can have it to kill someone. Where I'm from, we have the most firearms per capital in our county. With that it's a very rare case that someone will be killed by a gun. Now, I'm not saying that we are safer because we all have firearms, but my point that I'm making is that most people in my area use their firearms for hunting and target practice as a hobby. Because we like to know where are food is coming from and we like to make sure we can pull the trigger right.

 

As other people have mention, most people who kill people with firearms have this disconnection from society or people. Here, we're told about never pointing a weapon at something you didn't  want to destroy. That it's the person choice to kill someone. With all this killing it's disgusting, and it can take the pro-firearm side from you and make you question it. But in reality it's about teaching people the value of life and creating an environment where there isn't as much hate going around.

[Robert2424]

While I don't own a gun, and even if I did, odds are I wouldn't have any reason to use one. Unless a Zombie apocalypse happens. Lol. 

 

However, the right to bear arms is still there, so while this is a controversial topic, I do believe guns do have a purpose more than just killing people. Guns can be used as deterrent. Meaning, if an armed police officer is stationed somewhere, I'd be willing to bet crime in the area he is at, is going to plummet. I'm not saying Police officers can do no wrong, but there are good ones out there. I've met them, and used to talk to them frequently. 

 

Also, something else should be said. I live in North Denver, and while the neighborhood is slowly degenerating, crime isn't something we worry about too much. Except, just don't leave things on your front lawn or on the side of your house otherwise they may be stolen. I went to a very nearby King Soopers, to get groceries. After getting everything I wanted, went to the check out. I ended up seeing a man, probably a little older than me, have a gun in plain sight via his gunbelt. As you can imagine, people were staying clear of him, and even I decided to go to a different check out lane. I did see a police officer near the front of the store, and continue to see one to this day there so who knows. Now, I don't know this person, he could've been a undercover cop, or a regular civilian. I don't know. I just decided to move away from this person as I felt uncomfortable, and went to the other side of the checkouts.

 

So, I think there, at least to me, a point to what Civs can do. While I personally think if a Civ going to own a gun, a hand gun is ok, but at the same time don't think he should parade it around ether. Though I can see the counter argument of why it might be best for people who legally own guns if they are to bring them around in public, they should be clearly visible. But anything other than a simple handgun should be off limits, or be restricted to safe area's. Meaning, you could buy an SMG, or assault rifle, but it can't be at your home. It can be at a locked up spot at a police station, or a Military base and I'd be fine with that. 

 

Just my thoughts. 

[onbekende]

Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

[Lanyaie]

To be honest, gun ownership discussion is pointless. Like it or not, they're here to stay.

 

As of right now, there is 1 gun for every citizen in the USA that's a minimum of 300 million. What if everyone got their way and had gun sales banned? there'd still be at least 300 million guns in circulation. Good luck trying to reduce that...

 

 

PS: mandatory image someone showed me when this was brought up elsewhere:

Spoiler

Edited by Lanyaie, 22 December 2014 - 01:09 AM.

[Samus]

Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

[Yehom]

 

Master Master Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

This

 

Plus the fact that somehow the weapon lobbyist have found a way to connect the 'American' way of thinking towards freedom with the ownership and legalization of firearms. If those were photos of weed and you'd replace the word 'firearm' or 'gun' with marihuana, the whole discussion would be backwards. 

[Samus]

 

 

Master Master Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

This

 

Plus the fact that somehow the weapon lobbyist have found a way to connect the 'American' way of thinking towards freedom with the ownership and legalization of firearms. If those were photos of weed and you'd replace the word 'firearm' or 'gun' with marihuana, the whole discussion would be backwards. 

 

lol good point.

[Duderonomy]

 

 

 

Master Master Master Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

This

 

Plus the fact that somehow the weapon lobbyist have found a way to connect the 'American' way of thinking towards freedom with the ownership and legalization of firearms. If those were photos of weed and you'd replace the word 'firearm' or 'gun' with marihuana, the whole discussion would be backwards. 

 

lol good point.

 

Doesn't Switzerland issue every male between 20 & 30 an assault rifle? Granted, they get militia training as well, but you don't exactly hear about a lot of gun violence in Switzerland.

 

Also, the NY shooter was already a felon, who should not have been sold a gun by federal law. Yet he found one, anyway.