26 replies to this topic

[Tripl3 Thr3at]

How 'bout them apples!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/world/belgium-anti-terror-operation/

 

 

The fight is now coming to you...! Watch..

 

 

 

 

Again...

 

 

 

 

Again...

 

 

 

 

 

And Again...

 

 

[Fox Fire]

This is what happens when you have no friends and call on the whole world to come kill you.

[Political Fury]

Those are indeed some very nice "apples". 

[Robert2424]

lol. Somebody is bored. 

[Fox Fire]

After reading more about this. I think I'm pretty convinced that the attacks in Paris have some type of connection to IS.

On one hand, this makes me happy. But giving it a second thought, I revert back to my anti-war stance. I don't particularly have a solution to this problem. I certainly don't think it can be solved from the "outside."

The issue of extremist Salafism needs to be solved by Muslims themselves. It's the only way this will ever end.

 

Lately, this war has me pretty concerned about the future of the globe. This is basically the next WW, only it's not what we expect from a WW. It's fought using modern warfare, which is generally done on a much smaller scale with Guerrilla tactics. Making moves that play out long term rather than short term. This is something our enemy has clearly proven itself to be better at. What really blows my mind is the fact that we have seemingly learned nothing from Vietnam. An identical situation.

I mean, we literally have absolutely no strategy not only in Afghanistan but also Iraq. Literally. There is no strategy. It's basically the same thing we did in Vietnam. A body count war. Only this time, we aren't even keeping track of bodies either. The only strategy being used here is the idea "if we kill enough of them, we can eventually convince them that it's pointless."

Well Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan have all clearly proven that such a strategy has the exact opposite effect.

 

So what now? That's the question our top military leaders have been asking since the beginning of the Iraqi insurgency.

To quote the movie Jarhead: "No standard solution exists."

[Koliny]

I certainly don't think it can be solved from the "outside."
The issue of extremist Salafism needs to be solved by Muslims themselves. It's the only way this will ever end.

couldnt have said it better myself...

[Robert2424]

That part of the world going to be violent for a long time yet, weather we are there or not. It just be worse if we weren't there. 

[Blade 619]

That part of the world going to be violent for a long time yet, weather we are there or not. It just be worse if we weren't there. 

 

When you are there it gives a common "outsider" enemy. If you're not there they fight themselves... the middle east has been fighting amongst itself since records began (maybe exclude periods of Ottoman and other imperial rule simply as uprisings had a habit of being crushed with overwhelming force).

[Khandov]

That part of the world going to be violent for a long time yet, weather we are there or not. It just be worse if we weren't there. 

US just keeps escalating the violence, with their drones and arming every single anti-dictatorial guerilla. Maybe they do not even care that the more people die in that place, the more powerful the radicals become. I hate to repeat things after people, but just as Fox Fire said; nothing was learned from Vietnam. Obama has contributed to Middle-east bloodshed more than Bush could ever hope to.

 

On the other hand, I seriously doubt that US is even able to stop messing around with it. Just like Vietnam withdrawl triggered half million people escaping with boats from communist regime, unchecked IS will kill everything it sees.

 

Such terrorist army is fire, that came out of control. IS can destroy, but I don't see it building anything significant. And no, I have no good solution to end this madness either.

[Ghux]

And no, I have no good solution to end this madness either.

Nobody does. That's why it's such an issue.

[Tripl3 Thr3at]

You all raise some very interesting points. Though, I want to play devil's advocate here for a minute (not in the sense that I am an ISIL/S supporter, but in terms of societal perceptions of the Islamic faith).  There are those who say that Charlie Hebdo and other satirical institutions foment civil strife. These factions within the Islamic faith appear to be overly sensitive when society negatively portrays the Prophet Muhammad.  Yet..it is also seen as an issue of free speech. 

 

Do you think there are limits to freedom of speech, especially when it insults or ridicules someone's faith?

 

3T

[Lysistrata]

There can be no limit on free speech, not in the U.S. anyway. Anyone that wants to anywhere else... good luck with that.

 

We will be dealing with this for a very long time. They have been killing people for centuries over their religion and it will never end until they end it. The problem that we face is they will not keep it contained in their little area of the world anymore. They are now bringing their grief to us, and stupid leaders are allowing them to do it. When they hit again... and they will hit again... we will all get pissed off enough to go over there and destroy more countries. This will continue until the world unites under one front to eliminate the threat. I have always known that we will have no problem drilling through glass for the oil.

[onbekende]

I don't recall the belgian police using A-10 Thunderbolts...

[Duderonomy]

I'm against limiting free speech (well, obviously, look at my AA). Free speech is ultimately about being able to question societal norms and practices. If you can't do that, it becomes very easy for negative norms & practices to take root and flourish. This results in a stagnant society or even declining economy, since you can't question business practices. That's why it's usually the worst parts of culture and institutions that demand limits to free speech.

 

Libel and slander are the only occasions that I can think about possibly putting a civil penalty on free speech. But make it a matter for civil courts, not criminal. 

 

Ultimately, I'd rather someone open their mouth and confirm their stupidity, than keep it shut and act on it. You can argue against opinions. Actions, though, are rarely clear enough to form an argument against. Did that guy turn you down for the job because you were black? Or because of your resume? If he never tells you, you never know.

 

As for ISIS, well, I believe in extremely late-term abortions, even if the baby is a mullah at about 50 years old. I'm happy if you're nonviolent. Most sane people are in their everyday life. But sheep cannot fight off wolves. That's why you need sheepdogs, since wolves will prey on the sheep no matter how much they bleat. The Kurds and Christians in N. Iraq appreciate our help. So do the Sunnis, although they refuse to fight for themselves.

[Lysistrata]

I'm in full agreement with our friend, Duderonomy. You never punish the speech... if anything, you can punish the harm to reputation and financial loss from the effects of excercising free speech. Did we happen to see the same film today? I highly recommend everyone to see "American Sniper". What an amazing film, and the best of all that I have seen about the Iraq War. There are 3 types of people... sheep... wolves... and sheep dogs. Chris Kyle was a sheep dog, and this movie was a proper tribute to a true American hero. RIP Chris Kyle.

Edited by Lysistrata, 17 January 2015 - 02:42 AM.

[Lanyaie]

There can be no limit on free speech, not in the U.S. anyway. Anyone that wants to anywhere else... good luck with that.

 

We will be dealing with this for a very long time. They have been killing people for centuries over their religion and it will never end until they end it. The problem that we face is they will not keep it contained in their little area of the world anymore. They are now bringing their grief to us, and stupid leaders are allowing them to do it. When they hit again... and they will hit again... we will all get pissed off enough to go over there and destroy more countries. This will continue until the world unites under one front to eliminate the threat. I have always known that we will have no problem drilling through glass for the oil.

 

I can't agree more.

 

It's just an endless cycle, they need to be completely wiped out if we ever want to eliminate the threat.And unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen.

As long as ISIL/ISIS (or whatever they're called) have people to recruit they'll exist. The only thing they look for in recruits is that they're muslim, as long as they have muslims to recruit they'll never die out.

I cannot think of an outcome where we manage to completely eliminate the threat Because until all muslims with the mindsets of these terrorists get out of the west, they'll keep recruiting. And even then, you can be a completely "normal" muslim that no connection with terrorists - but your child may just grow up to be one and there's nothing we can do to prevent it from happening.

 

For example -  look on youtube. There's a lot of radical imams that commend these actions and nothing is being done against them. 

And regarding them ending it...everyone knows they won't.  They're fighting for a lost cause, I don't even know what they really want besides spreading Islam. I'm quite sure even they realize that they can't achieve that, unless they believe their mystical being will aid them.  The difference between us and them is:  they have nothing to lose, they believe that if they die they'll be rewarded. 

 

 

The entire middle-east is just a shithole and we keep being dragged in it. 

Edited by Lanyaie, 17 January 2015 - 02:43 AM.

[Duderonomy]

I would like to clarify that I don't confine these opinions to Muslims. Some people are just jacked in the head. Their brain chemistry isn't right. No amount of persuasion or civil disobedience will convince a Dahmer, or a Manson, or a McVeigh that they shouldn't hurt people. ISIS is the Muslim variant, but they prey on the same drives and mental disorders. Most of those aren't curable, and those disease "victims" wouldn't want the cure, anyway.

 

In the end, our minds are the detritus of culture, primal urges, and experiences. Free will has little impact on the majority of our actions. Is that bad? Not necessarily. I, for one, don't want to go through my entire life learning how to do everything on my own. If I did, I couldn't drive a car, cook food, or use a computer. I had to be told how to do all of those things. But, it is worth exercising free will over those actions that have a large impact on other people. And nothing is larger than taking away someone's life. Unfortunately, ISIS has looked at human life and determined that it has less value than abstract ideas dreamed up by a man a thousand years ago. That makes them an aberration to be eliminated.

 

The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is a good example of how Muslims can work through the political process to support their beliefs. Falling back on violence is laziness at best and sadism at worst.

[Ghux]

The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is a good example of how Muslims can work through the political process to support their beliefs. Falling back on violence is laziness at best and sadism at worst.

That might not be the best example, considering there are allegations of the Brotherhood having committed violence. But then again, those allegations were made by an oppressive regime trying to keep the Brotherhood out of power...

[Robert2424]

The difference is Freedom of speech is our culture, we shouldn't restrict it cause some cause some crazy people don't like what one person says. The rest of the world might bow, but America should not. I'm a christian, I don't like anybody putting down Jesus, but I don't grab a machine gun and shoot people with it. It happens, best I can do is ignore it. They are only causing trouble for themselves. They are fanatics, plain and simple. They won't listen to reason, and we can't help them nor do they want our help. We are really polar opposites in culture. 

[Samus]

There can be no limit on free speech, not in the U.S. anyway. Anyone that wants to anywhere else... good luck with that.

 

We will be dealing with this for a very long time. They have been killing people for centuries over their religion and it will never end until they end it. The problem that we face is they will not keep it contained in their little area of the world anymore. They are now bringing their grief to us, and stupid leaders are allowing them to do it. When they hit again... and they will hit again... we will all get pissed off enough to go over there and destroy more countries. This will continue until the world unites under one front to eliminate the threat. I have always known that we will have no problem drilling through glass for the oil.

Just look at Edward Snowden lol, denounced citizen and branded traitor for exposing the truth.