15 replies to this topic

[Shahenshah]

Thoughts?

[ccabal86]

I don't consider him either, really.

 

Even though it's good that he brought light to just how pervasive surveillance is, I believe the practice itself is a necessary evil to fight terrorism. The fact that there were only so few terror attacks (in the western world at least) and the great majority of the attempts have been thwarted shows that it works.

[Aenir]

I think people focus too much on him instead of the shit he actually revealed.

 

I don't consider him either, really.

 

Even though it's good that he brought light to just how pervasive surveillance is, I believe the practice itself is a necessary evil to fight terrorism. The fact that there were only so few terror attacks (in the western world at least) and the great majority of the attempts have been thwarted shows that it works.

 

Do you have any sources that anything has been thwarted?  Last I checked the NSA had no evidence.

[Lysistrata]

What is a hero? Really it's a person that has earned admiration from others for his brave deeds and noble qualities. The answer to your question is in the geography. What's his name? Edward Whogivesafuck?... I believe he's an American citizen and his feet are in Russia. That's a traitor. Heroes don't have to run and hide, and he lost the high ground when he chose to be a coward.

[Rhizoctonia]

I don't consider him either, really.

 

Even though it's good that he brought light to just how pervasive surveillance is, I believe the practice itself is a necessary evil to fight terrorism. The fact that there were only so few terror attacks (in the western world at least) and the great majority of the attempts have been thwarted shows that it works.

 

 

I agree that no attacks have been done, but I've also read that through this whole spying/surveillance, nothing ever was stopped because of it.  I believe NSA went too far, as they not only spied on Person A (known terrorist connections) and maybe person B,C who had more direct contact with person A, but they spied on person D,E,F, etc.  They took the measure too far, and branched out way beyond what they should of. 

 

Snowden is not a traitor.  Would I call him a hero for what he did, ehh not really.  But what he did was noble, and I'm glad he did.  It's a shame that someone had to run for their life after exposing the Government for wrongful doing.  

[Rhizoctonia]

What is a hero? Really it's a person that has earned admiration from others for his brave deeds and noble qualities. The answer to your question is in the geography. What's his name? Edward Whogivesafuck?... I believe he's an American citizen and his feet are in Russia. That's a traitor. Heroes don't have to run and hide, and he lost the high ground when he chose to be a coward.

 

 

So he deserved to be put in jail forever, or killed (not out of the question) for exposing something that shouldn't of been done?  A Coward would of never exposed it, a coward is the people who knew about it and didn't say anything.  He was willing to jeopardize his life and living in America to expose it..knowing damn well when he did he would either spend the rest of his life in jail for exposing something that the Government shouldn't be doing, or running for it and trying to have a life outside steel bars.

[Lysistrata]

He should have taken his information to the many Senators and Congressmen that would have shielded him from prosecution. When he took his information to the press and ran away... he left the only friends he would ever have. If he spilled it on the Senate floor, the entire country would have rallied to his side. Then he would be a hero. Now he's a traitor and his knowledge is just part of the firewall. It has been a wasted opportunity.

[Aenir]

He should have taken his information to the many Senators and Congressmen that would have shielded him from prosecution. When he took his information to the press and ran away... he left the only friends he would ever have. If he spilled it on the Senate floor, the entire country would have rallied to his side. Then he would be a hero. Now he's a traitor and his knowledge is just part of the firewall. It has been a wasted opportunity.

He tried going through the "proper channels".  It never worked.

[Lysistrata]

The only thing he needed to do was go to Senator Rand Paul. It would have been game over for the NSA.

[Icewolf]

Its a difficult one. The information he revealed was very harmful to the government and to his employer, but not necessarily harmful to the nation. He was also not directly employed by the agency, but by a private contractor (seriously...WTF is with privatising that knowledge?). 

 

I suspect the answer is do you agree with the policy he unmasked. If the policy was acceptable then he leaked in an unacceptable manor and is a traitor. If fundamentally it is not then he is a hero for releasing the information. 

 

For me I find the response to terrorism a bit excessive. In the USA in 2012 33 thousand people died in car accidents. That is 10 9/11s, and 33 thousand Boston bombings. 

 

Now if there was a proposal that every single car had to be fitted with a GPS tracker that would inform the police if the car broke the speed limit, given that speed is involved in something like 80% of accidents, you could reduce casualties by a far greater extent than the PRISM programme ever would. But I bet that would be seen as an invasion of privacy too far and would have people out on the streets in anger. 

[Lysistrata]

Icewolf once again brings up good points, but this is all old news and reduced to everyone's opinion now. Missed opportunity.

[ccabal86]

Do you have any sources that anything has been thwarted?  Last I checked the NSA had no evidence.

 
 

I agree that no attacks have been done, but I've also read that through this whole spying/surveillance, nothing ever was stopped because of it.

Eh, it's not the kind of thing they'd reveal to the public anyway. But tell you what I think: If I started a serious e-mail convo with a friend about how I plan to blow up this and that, there's a good chance police would eventually break down my door. I'm pretty sure someone, somewhere has big data analysis algorithms sifting through e-mails looking for certain keywords.

[Political Fury]

Snowden could technically be both hero, and traitor.

[Yehom]

He should have taken his information to the many Senators and Congressmen that would have shielded him from prosecution. When he took his information to the press and ran away... he left the only friends he would ever have. If he spilled it on the Senate floor, the entire country would have rallied to his side. Then he would be a hero. Now he's a traitor and his knowledge is just part of the firewall. It has been a wasted opportunity.

Is the hypocrisy real? Americans are the ones who for most fear and mistrust the government as a core of their existence, but in this case you have to trust that this man, who has unveiled some of the country's most deepest secrets, will get a fair trail or even shielding from prosecution? If this man was to stay in the US, he'd been haunted, caught and set in Alcatraz/Guantanamo Bay for his 'crimes'. People are so upset about what Snowden has done 'to his country', yet aren't even close to judge what their government has done all these years, all under the umbrella of 'the war against terror'. Because Merkel, every American citizen and every other citizen outside of the US is a potential threat, right? 

[Fox Fire]

I think people focus too much on him instead of the shit he actually revealed.

^This. He revealed a lot more than just NSA surveillance. Like our military massacring Iraqi civilians. 

 

I'm not sure if he's a hero, but if he's a traitor, the only thing he's betraying are the warmongers in office.

[Lysistrata]

 

He should have taken his information to the many Senators and Congressmen that would have shielded him from prosecution. When he took his information to the press and ran away... he left the only friends he would ever have. If he spilled it on the Senate floor, the entire country would have rallied to his side. Then he would be a hero. Now he's a traitor and his knowledge is just part of the firewall. It has been a wasted opportunity.

Is the hypocrisy real? Americans are the ones who for most fear and mistrust the government as a core of their existence, but in this case you have to trust that this man, who has unveiled some of the country's most deepest secrets, will get a fair trail or even shielding from prosecution? If this man was to stay in the US, he'd been haunted, caught and set in Alcatraz/Guantanamo Bay for his 'crimes'. People are so upset about what Snowden has done 'to his country', yet aren't even close to judge what their government has done all these years, all under the umbrella of 'the war against terror'. Because Merkel, every American citizen and every other citizen outside of the US is a potential threat, right? 

 

I can only give you my opinion from a right of center, conservative American citizen. Snowden had the choice of being an American hero or becoming an American traitor. He chose to be a traitor when he ran away and left the NSA with the ability to clean up the mess and sieze the high ground. Yes, we mistrust our government... and that is why we elect new blood into the government on a regular basis. Snowden revealed that the NSA is spying on everyone with every tool possible. Where is the news there? I already knew that. Alcatraz is an empty island in the San Francisco bay and Guantanamo will be given back to Cuba within the next two years if Obama gets his way. Every human being on this planet that does not obey Sunni extremist muslim policy is at war with terror, and ignoring and denying that is not the way to defeat it.