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How West and allies intervened to create Syrian civil war and arm ISIL & Al Qaeda.


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#1
Shahenshah

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http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military

Seymour Hersh is a Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist.
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The document showed, the adviser said, ‘that what was started as a covert US programme to arm and support the moderate rebels fighting Assad had been co-opted by Turkey, and had morphed into an across-the-board technical, arms and logistical programme for all of the opposition, including Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic State. The so-called moderates had evaporated and the Free Syrian Army was a rump group stationed at an airbase in Turkey.’ The assessment was bleak: there was no viable ‘moderate’ opposition to Assad, and the US was arming extremists.

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Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, director of the DIA between 2012 and 2014, confirmed that his agency had sent a constant stream of classified warnings to the civilian leadership about the dire consequences of toppling Assad. The jihadists, he said, were in control of the opposition.

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‘If the American public saw the intelligence we were producing daily, at the most sensitive level, they would go ballistic,’ Flynn told me. ‘We understood Isis’s long-term strat

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‘Our policy of arming the opposition to Assad was unsuccessful and actually having a negative impact,’ the former JCS adviser said. ‘The Joint Chiefs believed that Assad should not be replaced by fundamentalists. The administration’s policy was contradictory. They wanted Assad to go but the opposition was dominated by extremists. So who was going to replace him?

--A longtime consultant to the Joint Special Operations Command said that, after 9/11, ‘Bashar was, for years, extremely helpful to us while, in my view, we were churlish in return, and clumsy in our use of the gold he gave us. That quiet co-operation continued among some elements, even after the [Bush administration’s] decision to vilify him.’ In 2002 Assad authorised Syrian intelligence to turn over hundreds of internal files on the activities of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria and Germany. Later that year, Syrian intelligence foiled an attack by al-Qaida on the headquarters of the US Navy’s Fifth Fleet in Bahrain, and Assad agreed to provide the CIA with the name of a vital al-Qaida informant. In violation of this agreement, the CIA contacted the informant directly; he rejected the approach, and broke off relations with his Syrian handlers. Assad also secretly turned over to the US relatives of Saddam Hussein who had sought refuge in Syria, and – like America’s allies in Jordan, Egypt, Thailand and elsewhere – tortured suspected terrorists for the CIA in a Damascus prison.
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By the late summer of 2013, the DIA’s assessment had been circulated widely, but although many in the American intelligence community were aware that the Syrian opposition was dominated by extremists the CIA-sponsored weapons kept coming, presenting a continuing problem for Assad’s army.

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CIA efforts to train the moderate rebel forces were also failing badly. ‘The CIA’s training camp was in Jordan and was controlled by a Syrian tribal group,’ the JCS adviser said. There was a suspicion that some of those who signed up for training were actually Syrian army regulars minus their uniforms. This had happened before, at the height of the Iraqi war, when hundreds of Shia militia members showed up at American training camps for new uniforms, weapons and a few days of training, and then disappeared into the desert. A separate training programme, set up by the Pentagon in Turkey, fared no better. The Pentagon acknowledged in September that only ‘four or five’ of its recruits were still battling Islamic State; a few days later 70 of them defected to Jabhat al-Nusra immediately after crossing the border into Syria.
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The Kremlin adviser on the Middle East, like the Joint Chiefs and the DIA, dismisses the ‘moderates’ who have Obama’s support, seeing them as extremist Islamist groups that fight alongside Jabhat al-Nusra and IS (‘There’s no need to play with words and split terrorists into moderate and not moderate,’ Putin said in a speech on 22 October). The American generals see them as exhausted militias that have been forced to make an accommodation with Jabhat al-Nusra or IS in order to survive. At the end of 2014, Jürgen Todenhöfer, a German journalist who was allowed to spend ten days touring IS-held territory in Iraq and Syria, told CNN that the IS leadership ‘are all laughing about the Free Syrian Army. They don’t take them for serious. They say: “The best arms sellers we have are the FSA. If they get a good weapon, they sell it to us.” They didn’t take them for serious. They take for serious Assad. They take for serious, of course, the bombs. But they fear nothing, and FSA doesn’t play a role.’

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Great work guys, good job, thought some of you should know the tax you paid helped create the refugee crises and human tragedy. Great view it must be from moralistic ivory towers where you stand and preach to anyone who holds liberal views and any semblance of empathy for the unfolding human tragedy.

Edited by Shahenshah, 30 December 2015 - 09:11 AM.


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#2
ccabal86

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A very good read, but it's only a recap of what's already been established: namely that it was the West's failed Middle-Eastern policy that lead to the present situation. Luckily, it seems military professionals still know how shit works, kudos to them!

 

I will reaffirm my opinion that at this point, keeping Assad in power would be preferable to other alternatives.


Edited by ccabal86, 30 December 2015 - 03:20 PM.

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#3
Blade 619

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Yet for some bizarre reason you mention any of this crap to the vast majority of "normal" people they assume you've been reading come kinda conspiracy theory.

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Blade 619 you have been baptized in Fire and Blood and emerged as IRON!

 

 

  I will remember this, Blade, and I will be forever grateful... oh hell words fail me!  ( @ )( @ )

 

 

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Leave it to Blade to step in and say the most completely true post in this thread. You make my day Sir.  

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#4
Shahenshah

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Most of the mainstream media all over the world is reduced to clickbait links and consumerist content like "top 10 xyz" "xyz shows off tight body at the beach" "chocolate is good for health" "benefits of wine" "giant (species of sea animal) spotted in Japan/ attacked someone on the beach down under," "Man U sucking it up this season and the last one, everyone hoping Van Gaal resigns"

These things are on the front page normally.
Edit: oh and forgot this one: top 5 fashion trends this season, which basically means youre pushed the sponsored product from high end brand for $3000, and yea, will have pic of a skinny model wearing almost nothing but the product that can range from a watch to shoes. I wouldn't mind if that content was on GQ site, but say I visit BBC or something, I'm looking for serious stuff, there are other sites for other stuff.

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#5
Lysistrata

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Most of the mainstream media all over the world is reduced to clickbait links and consumerist content like "top 10 xyz" "xyz shows off tight body at the beach" "chocolate is good for health" "benefits of wine" "giant (species of sea animal) spotted in Japan/ attacked someone on the beach down under," "Man U sucking it up this season and the last one, everyone hoping Van Gaal resigns"

These things are on the front page normally.
Edit: oh and forgot this one: top 5 fashion trends this season, which basically means youre pushed the sponsored product from high end brand for $3000, and yea, will have pic of a skinny model wearing almost nothing but the product that can range from a watch to shoes. I wouldn't mind if that content was on GQ site, but say I visit BBC or something, I'm looking for serious stuff, there are other sites for other stuff.

That's why my home page is the "Drudge Report", and my second visit is "Real Clear Politics". I can then pinpoint on the stories I am most interested in reading. The commercial bombs are killing brain cells. That's why I don't even go anywhere near "The Daily Caller" anymore. I like Tucker Carlson but his website is a cesspool.


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#6
ccabal86

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Most of the mainstream media all over the world is reduced to clickbait links and consumerist content like "top 10 xyz" "xyz shows off tight body at the beach" "chocolate is good for health" "benefits of wine" "giant (species of sea animal) spotted in Japan/ attacked someone on the beach down under," "Man U sucking it up this season and the last one, everyone hoping Van Gaal resigns"
These things are on the front page normally.Edit: oh and forgot this one: top 5 fashion trends this season, which basically means youre pushed the sponsored product from high end brand for $3000, and yea, will have pic of a skinny model wearing almost nothing but the product that can range from a watch to shoes. I wouldn't mind if that content was on GQ site, but say I visit BBC or something, I'm looking for serious stuff, there are other sites for other stuff.


There is a South Park episode on just this. Ths shit is fine for casual browsing, but by now it encroached heavily on proper news

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#7
Decide R Inchief

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As to the OP:

 

"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention."



#8
Shahenshah

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Why Assad's Army Has Not Defected

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-assads-army-has-not-defected-15190



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#9
ccabal86

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Good read, and it's worth complementing with another article from the very same site: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-middle-easts-conflicts-are-about-religion-15205


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#10
Road2Victory

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Lame this is just a failure of foreign policy that has existed since the Kissinger era. What a fail. All started with 2000 and 2003 respectively. 

 

 

We created Al-Qaeda when it splintered off from the Mujaheddin in the 1970s when Soviet invaded Afghanistan. Then we have been hunting them ever since till we found Osama Bin Laden then Iraq happened and then ISIL happened. See a pattern? 

 

History seems to repeat itself. 


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#11
Road2Victory

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https://www.rt.com/news/324263-russia-briefing-isis-funding/

 

Okay I have to agree with Russia on this, don't care about Turkey supporting ISIL. I mean the evidence they prove already knew that the Turkish government was supporting ISIL, they can't even catch the militants on their homeland right. Turkey should have never been a NATO member status I mean it would be better if it was in control of a Kurdish president rather than stupid a Erogaden.

 

The Russians are far more effective as damaging the ISIL than the US. Iranians have power in Iraq and in Syria, seems that the US is trying to lose control in the Middle East. 

 

Turkey shelling YPG units in near Turkish border? WTF and shelling Syrian targets? Saudis planning to send group troops to fight ISIL totally not because they are also gonna fight against Bashir Al Assad's forces?  What the fuck is going on in the world? A third world war? 


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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts"- Winston Churchill
"War does not determine who is right-only who is left" -Bertrand Russell
"We shall show mercy, but shall not ask for it"- Winston Churchill
"You ask what the aim is? I tell you it is victory- total victory"- Winston Churchill

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#12
onbekende

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more like 5 sides (or howmany you wanna count, stick any random number above 3) wanting a piece of a nation with no citizens.


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#13
Road2Victory

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Foreign intervention = violates a sovereignty of a nation = freedom to exist. Thats what the Arab nations are doing. 


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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts"- Winston Churchill
"War does not determine who is right-only who is left" -Bertrand Russell
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"You ask what the aim is? I tell you it is victory- total victory"- Winston Churchill

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#14
onbekende

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nationbuilding 101


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Road2Victory

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Dates back to World War I somehow -_-


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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts"- Winston Churchill
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#16
Shahenshah

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Good read, and it's worth complementing with another article from the very same site: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-middle-

easts-conflicts-are-about-religion-15205

I stopped reading after seeing that opinion piece was from Oren Kesslar, your typical AIPAC paid lobbyist and cookie cutter expert in some random AIPAC funded "think-tank". They get paid to spew out bullshit from their paymasters. Sprinkle some facts here and there, then spin them into an over arching narrative and they'll find the sheep if you aren't careful. So be careful ccabal, don't be a mindless sheep, know of the pitfalls of free and fair media :P

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#17
ccabal86

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Even a stooge can make a few good points every now and then. It's the content that really matters, first and then the person.


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#18
Shahenshah

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Even a stooge can make a few good points every now and then. It's the content that really matters, first and then the person.

The credibility of the opinion depends upon the credibility of it's creator. My only point is do not take everything as a gospel or for granted. This guy gets paid to create skewed content. 



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#19
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A very good read, but it's only a recap of what's already been established: namely that it was the West's failed Middle-Eastern policy that lead to the present situation. Luckily, it seems military professionals still know how shit works, kudos to them!

 

I will reaffirm my opinion that at this point, keeping Assad in power would be preferable to other alternatives.

This. Foreign intervention never helps. It just makes things worse. The west is currently in a very good position to project soft power and persuade the Assad regime to make some concessions. They should use this opportunity to help Syria. Trying to strongarm people there won't help anyone.


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U had no mp no sdi no military wonder actually :lol:
Kuch bhi kaho bhai dilar admi ho tussi
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The differance between IRON and some rag tag alliance is the fact that we will fight with no reguard to our own nations. Putting the greater good of the whole before ourselves. Victory for all or they will have to fight us to the last point of infa in the last IRON nation. Every so often someone(s) will come around and exemplifie this. Living up to the IRON Values. It gives me great pleaser to baptize three of IRON's up and comers.
Fermion, you have been Baptized in Fire and Blood and Emerged as IRON!


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#20
onbekende

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Foreign intervention for economical reasons never helps

 

fixxed that for you. Or do you think any humanitarian action was a waste?


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