73 replies to this topic

[iSocialism]

You can modified the trigger and spring too easily allow the AR model to become fully auto. It's illegal though, and so on....

From what I've understand this guy was wealthy and was a big gambler. He probably had help delivering the bags to his room by an hotel employee(s). Those poor employees though knowing that they helped the guy, and only if they would had noticed. It's Vegas though, I bet people bring a lot of strange with them that it wasn't too out of the norm for a whole bunches of bulky heavy bags.

There is no gun ban out there that can prevent pure evil.

[hilowe]

There is no gun ban out there that can prevent pure evil.

 

I'd actually change that to there is no ban or law out there that can prevent pure evil.

 

There are truly evil people out there, and the best you can do is be prepared to defend yourself in case the worst happens.

 

You can modified the trigger and spring too easily allow the AR model to become fully auto.

 

I gonna claim ignorance here.  Have heard people say that, but usually it's people that have no idea about guns (like Kevin De Leon and his "ghost gun" that can fire faster than a squad automatic weapon when you do the math on his numbers)

 

 

For anyone that is curious about bump stocks, the ATF determined them to be legal in 2010.  This is the best description I've heard of why the ruled the way they did.

 

The bump stock replaces the stock on the semi-automatic rifle and uses the firearm’s recoil to “bump” the trigger back into the finger, which causes it to fire more rapidly when compared to manual shooting.

While fully automatic weapons have been illegal since 1986, bump stocks are legal because the trigger is still manually pulled for each subsequent round.

[Lysistrata]

He probably had help delivering the bags to his room by an hotel employee(s).

He checked in on Thursday, and had 4 days to move his hardware. It's not like he had to load everything on a cart, and I doubt he would trust anyone carrying anything that was not in on it with him. I hear he had 1,600 rounds of ammo... that's a lot of metal to carry.

 

I don't see an effective way to ban the "bump stock" other than points to politicians for passing a law. It would be right up there with banning cruise control by using a brick on your gas pedal.

[iSocialism]

True wasn't really thinking of that.

Bump stocks are just a laughable item for me. I'm a gun owner, and would never buy that or want someone around me with it. It's sounds like something someone would buy to be the "cool guy." Which means the careless one. It's sounds like something that's hard to control, and not highly accurate. It might have actually prevented many lives from being loss. Side note, Has anyone seen anything about what the may cause of injuries were from. Such as from being hit or trampled on?

 

As for the modification to the "trigger" it's more like the hammer. All you are doing is modifying it to stop the hammer from catching which would require another trigger squeeze. It's not easily done, you have to have the know hows and tools. Nothing that youtube doesn't have information on though.

[onbekende]

 

And grats, you just added politics to his alleged motive

I believe this was an act of terrorism. The definition of terrorism is "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims". So if they are to call this a an act of terrorism, there must be a political motive. It's not me that will determine that, but it's what I believe until it's proven otherwise. If it's not an act of terrorism it must be an act of criminal mass murder. That would mean it didn't matter and we have to stop calling it terrorism. So, what do you think it was?

 

 

To strike terror indeed, but I wouldn't (as of yet) add a political view to it. I'd rather lean towards a social slant, something had to give this person the idea that his actions were needed. We also can't rule out a pure psychological motive, a basic psychosis can also be the trigger.

 

 

I'm leaning towards mass murder, but we'll see...

 

Depends on motive really, the effect is the same but motive could be devoid of "hurt people" and be "hurt society". Then again we are more talking terminology here and don't think we need that (yet?).

 

 

I heard a guy from Australia this morning talking about their gun control. He says all the good guys don't have guns anymore, but all the bad guys still have all their guns. Sorry, I don't want that happening here in the USA.

 

 

 

 

Funny their gun violence rate is that much smaller in comparison the US (by a factor of 10). Specifically look at homicides (2x for US), all the others are kinda the same percentage wise but that one is a clear difference. It is also the one with the "bad guy with gun" deal.

 

Yes many gun violence acts can be detained/halted/averted by a "good guy with gun", but the question should be if that difference outweighs the one were it didn't happen (for various reasons, I'd guess in las Vegas some concert visitors were packing aswell, they didn't help one bit). It is that much more a societal discussion that it is a pure numbers one.

 

 

*SNIP*

 

 

His money came from his "vast" property collection, guess his bookkeeping job gave him both good insights and spending cash to build it.

[Lysistrata]

Yes many gun violence acts can be detained/halted/averted by a "good guy with gun", but the question should be if that difference outweighs the one were it didn't happen (for various reasons, I'd guess in las Vegas some concert visitors were packing aswell, they didn't help one bit).

There are many things that are not allowed in all shows, concerts, and sporting events... and everyone is searched before entry. I have never tried to bring a gun in when I went to see the Eagles, Rush, Journey, The Jersey Boys, Tom Petty (RIP), or even Disneyland, so I don't know if there is any way possible to get a gun through. I seriously doubt it.

 

And YES! Every time a "good guy with a gun" stops the bad guy, it outweighs any time that it didn't happen. I strongly wish that everyone would stop complaining about guns long enough for everyone to vote on repealing the 2nd Amendment. Please! Someone introduce the repeal so it can get soundly defeated by the people... maybe then we can stop the insane arguing about guns.

[DeathMerchant]

True wasn't really thinking of that.

Bump stocks are just a laughable item for me. I'm a gun owner, and would never buy that or want someone around me with it. It's sounds like something someone would buy to be the "cool guy." Which means the careless one. It's sounds like something that's hard to control, and not highly accurate.

Back when the Slide Fire stock first came out, I wondered what the big deal was. So I researched it, watched a few videos, and my interest quickly went away. Rather impractical and its not the most reliable. There is a certain rhythmic movement to it which requires a great deal of consistency. How someone managed to use it effectively to murder a bunch of people is beyond me. This guy must have practiced for a few years and expended a great deal of ammo to train with it. My evaluation is that it is just a range toy, and its employed use as a self defense tool is horribly unpredictable.

 

 

There are many things that are not allowed in all shows, concerts, and sporting events... and everyone is searched before entry. I have never tried to bring a gun in when I went to see the Eagles, Rush, Journey, The Jersey Boys, Tom Petty (RIP), or even Disneyland, so I don't know if there is any way possible to get a gun through. I seriously doubt it.

Unless you are physically searched or have to go through metal detectors, its practically impossible to be caught carrying a weapon. A lot of venues will search bags and backpacks, but they won't physically search you. The few concerts I have attended only searched bags. I've been to Disney World a few times, and they always check bags. Within the past few years, they now randomly select people going through the entrance for an additional screening. This consists of emptying out your pockets and going through a metal detector. They say its randomized who gets picked, but I believe there is some formula. My wife or I would get picked everyday or every 2 days, and then we would stopped being picked for a few days, and then it would start up again.

[Lysistrata]

The few concerts I have attended only searched bags.

I never carry a gun around, although I have seriously considered it, but it's another one of those things you have to get permission to do, and if I have to go through any government bullshit... I'll just pass. I hate red tape, and I hate someone telling me what to do, so it's best for me to avoid it. Recently took my grandson to Disneyland, and that was ridiculous. It was worse than getting on a plane.

[onbekende]

There are many things that are not allowed in all shows, concerts, and sporting events... and everyone is searched before entry. I have never tried to bring a gun in when I went to see the Eagles, Rush, Journey, The Jersey Boys, Tom Petty (RIP), or even Disneyland, so I don't know if there is any way possible to get a gun through. I seriously doubt it.

.
So wait, that search wouldn't be an infraction on your hallowed 2nd amendment? Even going further and denying entry when in possession of a weapon isn't an infraction? Clearly I am drawing arbitrary lines now but atleast know you do the same...
.

And YES! Every time a "good guy with a gun" stops the bad guy, it outweighs any time that it didn't happen. I strongly wish that everyone would stop complaining about guns long enough for everyone to vote on repealing the 2nd Amendment. Please! Someone introduce the repeal so it can get soundly defeated by the people... maybe then we can stop the insane arguing about guns.

.

And any time neither "good guy" or "bad guy" was present all together? Wouldn't that even be that much better?

 

And for the umptienth time, nearly everyone discussing this want an ADJUSTMENT to the reach of the 2nd amendment, heck it doesn't even have to be changed in the amendment itself. Just a clarification on what is and isn't allowed, a clearer and (for some) saner amount of gun ownership is all that is sought. Heck find me 1 post where I advocated for complete gun proliferation, let alone me stating the US should do this (I specifically start with the notion that a "gun-free" US is a myth, nor that I would even consider it possible).

 

A brilliant and simple notion many construct fir this is coupled with your even sacredest 1st amendment, for instance you aren't allowed to yell "fire" in a theatre. The notion carries with it the understanding that certain limits are already present on the 2nd amendment, or are you gonna tell me you folks hoard tanks and other military equipment the US army has?

[Lysistrata]

So wait, that search wouldn't be an infraction on your hallowed 2nd amendment? Even going further and denying entry when in possession of a weapon isn't an infraction?

Don't confuse the 4th Amendment with the 2nd.

 

The 4th prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. The cops can't break your door down and go through your stuff without a warrant.

 

A business can refuse to allow things inside the establishment... like a theatre can prevent you from bringing in a Coke, or video recording the movie. I remember when I had to sneak in a camera into concerts, and just try to go into a night club with your own bottle of Jack Daniels. Some Starbucks won't allow anyone in with a gun... I worry about the guy that brings in the gun and doesn't care what their stupid sign says.

 

I live in Las Vegas, and it's very gun friendly here, but I hear horror stories about cities like Washington DC, where it's illegal to have a gun in your home? I mean seriously... that's clearly unconstitutional.

[DeathMerchant]

 

The few concerts I have attended only searched bags.

I never carry a gun around, although I have seriously considered it, but it's another one of those things you have to get permission to do, and if I have to go through any government bullshit... I'll just pass. I hate red tape, and I hate someone telling me what to do, so it's best for me to avoid it.

I felt the same way about going through the hassle. But I decided it would be worth it in the end. In NY, depending on what county you reside in, it can be an absolute nightmare. Took me about 2 months to get my pistol permit, a former coworker who lived in the next county over took 13 months. And God help you if live in NYC, you better be a rich Democrat with some high political connections to even be considered for a permit.

 

Acquiring a pistol permit in Nevada should be a less stressful experience.

[onbekende]

 

So wait, that search wouldn't be an infraction on your hallowed 2nd amendment? Even going further and denying entry when in possession of a weapon isn't an infraction?

Don't confuse the 4th Amendment with the 2nd.

 

The 4th prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. The cops can't break your door down and go through your stuff without a warrant.

 

A business can refuse to allow things inside the establishment... like a theatre can prevent you from bringing in a Coke, or video recording the movie. I remember when I had to sneak in a camera into concerts, and just try to go into a night club with your own bottle of Jack Daniels. Some Starbucks won't allow anyone in with a gun... I worry about the guy that brings in the gun and doesn't care what their stupid sign says.

 

I live in Las Vegas, and it's very gun friendly here, but I hear horror stories about cities like Washington DC, where it's illegal to have a gun in your home? I mean seriously... that's clearly unconstitutional.

 

 

Well different parts of nation can have different rule-sets, and as far as I know such provisions (if they are even real and not some NRA scaremongering) haven't been trown at SCOTUS yet, so I might just call that bullcrap...

 

Again, it is your 2nd that makes you believe a weapon is your complete and utter right to have, why should a private enterprise be allowed to infringe on this? The 2nd is only good for the state? The entire thing is only for the state? Guess stealing is allowed then.

[Lysistrata]

it is your 2nd that makes you believe a weapon is your complete and utter right to have, why should a private enterprise be allowed to infringe on this?

The private enterprise does not interfere with your complete and utter right to have... they just say you're not bringing it into my private enterprise. Your constitutional right to keep and bear arms does not cancel, trump, or override, the rights of the private enterprise to prohibit them from being brought into their private establishment. It's as simple as "If you want to come in here... you're not bringing that with you"... same thing with all the stuff they will take away from you before you get on a plane.

[onbekende]

Excellent, if you are ever wish to enter my house you need to waive your right to a fair trial.

[Lysistrata]

The 800 pound gorilla in the room, and the one thing that everyone outside the media bubble wants to know, is why did he do this?

 

The "bump stock" controversy is just another path at attempting to ban semi-automatic weapons. The bump stock does not alter the way the gun operates. It changes how the trigger is pulled by mechanically reversing the action required for firing. Instead of you physically having to pull the trigger to fire the gun for each shot, the recoil of a bullet firing bumps a spring to force the trigger to push into your finger, allowing the gun to fire repeatedly as fast as possible. In essence, it's not a modification to the weapon... it's a modification to how a human being pulls the trigger. It's not anything that can be banned in manufacturing.

 

It's not feasible that anyone can be born in the USA, live 64 years, be a mail carrier, work for the IRS for several years, become enormously wealthy as a real estate mogul, professional gambler, travel the world, and no one know who you are or what you believe in. The last thing I read was some moron wants us to believe he had an "undiagnosed mental illness"... which means nothing. It's right up there with "we think he was a closet gay" or "our running assumption is his target was not people... he had an uncontrollable fear and hatred for cowboy hats... he just couldn't take it when he looked out his window".

 

I want a real explanation why he killed so many people, and it appears there is a vested interest in keeping this guy, and his life, a secret. Where are all the people he has known all his life? Has anyone even checked to see his voter registration? I want to know.

[Shahenshah]

If every black man in America bought and registered a gun tomorrow, Congress would enact strict gun control laws on Friday.

[hilowe]

So wait, that search wouldn't be an infraction on your hallowed 2nd amendment?

 

 

Private event.  2nd amendment applies to the Government, people and companies have the rights to state what can or cannot be brought in (similar to 1st amendment, Government can't tell you to stop something, but your work sure can tell you no politics in the office).

 

nd any time neither "good guy" or "bad guy" was present all together?

 

You mean, most day to day interactions? Where nobody does anything violent, and everybody just goes along?  

 

Unfortunately, shit like this happens... 

 

http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/to-have-it-and-need-it/article_b9f0b293-a135-527d-a554-93a77bb9745d.html

 

Or, these home invasions, stopped by a "good guy with a gun":

 

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/redford-twp-homeowner-shoots-intruder-in-hand

 

http://www.wfaa.com/news/carrollton-resident-shoots-early-morning-home-intruder/480792528

 

http://www.timesnews.net/Law-Enforcement/2017/10/03/Don-t-Shoot-Hawkins-burglary-suspect-held-at-gunpoint-by-homeowner.html?ci=stream&lp=1&p=1

 

 

 

where it's illegal to have a gun in your home?

 

Not any more.  DC vs Heller decision struck that ban down. 

[Lysistrata]

If every black man in America bought and registered a gun tomorrow, Congress would enact strict gun control laws on Friday.

Good morning Shah! Have you had your coffee yet today? This is a stupid, and very racist thing to say. Let's see if I can come up with something comparably stupid.

 

There are hundreds of millions of guns in the USA, and I have no idea how many are owned by black men. How do you know they don't already have them? How about black women? Do they count too? Are the key words "bought and registered"? Does "stolen and unregistered" count?

 

Half of Congress believes black people are too stupid to show an identification to vote... and I'll give you a clue... it's not the Republicans. I personally know many blacks who own guns, and they are not wanting to kill white people. I personally know many white people who own guns, and they are not afraid of black people owning guns. Your post was racist and not grounded in fact.

[iSocialism]

If every black man in America bought and registered a gun tomorrow, Congress would enact strict gun control laws on Friday.

Good morning Shah! Have you had your coffee yet today? This is a stupid, and very racist thing to say. Let's see if I can come up with something comparably stupid.
 
There are hundreds of millions of guns in the USA, and I have no idea how many are owned by black men. How do you know they don't already have them? How about black women? Do they count too? Are the key words "bought and registered"? Does "stolen and unregistered" count?
 
Half of Congress believes black people are too stupid to show an identification to vote... and I'll give you a clue... it's not the Republicans. I personally know many blacks who own guns, and they are not wanting to kill white people. I personally know many white people who own guns, and they are not afraid of black people owning guns. Your post was racist and not grounded in fact.

[Shahenshah]

 

If every black man in America bought and registered a gun tomorrow, Congress would enact strict gun control laws on Friday.

Good morning Shah! Have you had your coffee yet today? This is a stupid, and very racist thing to say. Let's see if I can come up with something comparably stupid.

 

There are hundreds of millions of guns in the USA, and I have no idea how many are owned by black men. How do you know they don't already have them? How about black women? Do they count too? Are the key words "bought and registered"? Does "stolen and unregistered" count?

 

Half of Congress believes black people are too stupid to show an identification to vote... and I'll give you a clue... it's not the Republicans. I personally know many blacks who own guns, and they are not wanting to kill white people. I personally know many white people who own guns, and they are not afraid of black people owning guns. Your post was racist and not grounded in fact.

 

 

I heard a guy from Australia US this morning talking about their gun control. He said the reaction of authorities of x person carrying a gun and y person carrying exactly the same gun are very very different. The difference between X and Y being the color of the skin, then they showed a whole lot of bunch of videos of that social experiment. I'm sure you'll be able to google them. The videos didn't look fake or staged, so obviously, the problem of racism appears to lie in law enforcement. TMy post isnt implicating black people, but implying that there's a prejudice against them amongst the current establishment and it flows top to bottom from the President himself. While you're more educated man, but a detailed look at The_donald reddit or breitbart or any of the right wing side's comment section will give a good peek inside a significant chunk of Trump base which is racist & anti-semitic.