Having spent the last couple of years largely in California, it is increasingly apparent that the government structure is simply not functional for the people who live here. There are too many different parts of the state with different needs, and as a result it's incredible difficult to get any kind of functioning state-wide programs. A few examples are our roads and infrastructure (49th in the nation), housing affordability (49th in the nation), and K-12 education (44th in the nation).

 

So I am actually quite happy that Cal 3 qualified for the ballot this November:

 

https://cal3.com/

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Measure-to-split-California-into-three-states-12989261.php

 

Smaller states means smaller governments, and I believe strongly that smaller governments will be able to serve the needs of their residents better than the current behemoth whose GDP is larger than most countries.

 

On a national scale, the net effect is that you turn one giant blue state into 3 smaller states, 1 swing and 2 blue, so in effect, 1/3 of California's electoral votes are now up for grabs, which will benefit the GOP. On the other hand, it will likely swing the Senate a bit in the Democrat's favor, so it's pretty much a wash. I hope that national political divisions don't get in the way of an otherwise good proposal. Oh, and it might require adding 2 more stars to the flag; the last time that happened was in the 1960s.

 

There is relatively little public debate about this topic, but now that it's on the ballot, I expect to start seeing a lot more. I hope that Californians will come to the realization that a capital city closer to home is going to be a good idea in the long run.

I was going to post about this, but it will go down in flames because only 17% are polling in favor. If by chance it actually gets the most votes, it must then pass through all the California Legislators that have to approve such a move. California will not allow their Electoral Votes to go anywhere... they'll treat them the same as illegal aliens. Tim Draper wanted California split into 6 states, which I would have supported, but this 3 state job will just triple my hatred for California politics. One is plenty.

Sounds to me like you guys need to strenghten the local level of government. And while we got idiots running around everywhere who want to cut themselfes "free", some localisation can be a good thing.

yea, not glad to see this.

 

That has jack shit to do with any of the mentioned reasons. The ballot initiative is entirely a product of Tim Draper throwing a pile of money around to gather signatures. Unfortunately with the way these ballot initiatives work, many of these signatures are gathered via questionable methods, especially since there's little to no verification. If you're willing to throw enough  money at the problem, and use sufficiently bullshit methods you can get just about whatever you want on the ballot, and stuff like this can get fucked. 

 

If you want some fun,  next time you're getting swarmed by pushy folks with clipboards, listen to their elevator pitch vs what they're actually trying to get on their ballot. Lies, lies everywhere. Also if they have a "mailing list" so you can get more information, see how many of them try to convince you that you need to sign it. And this is without dealing with outright forgeries (there was a case in AZ recently, where someone got in contact with a random pull of people who signed some ballot initiative. every single one was a forgery ) 

 

Bascily Tim Draper and everyone else using massive amounts of money to hijack the democratic process can go fuck a cactus. 

yea, not glad to see this.

 

That has jack shit to do with any of the mentioned reasons. The ballot initiative is entirely a product of Tim Draper throwing a pile of money around to gather signatures. Unfortunately with the way these ballot initiatives work, many of these signatures are gathered via questionable methods, especially since there's little to no verification. If you're willing to throw enough  money at the problem, and use sufficiently bullshit methods you can get just about whatever you want on the ballot, and stuff like this can get fucked. 

 

If you want some fun,  next time you're getting swarmed by pushy folks with clipboards, listen to their elevator pitch vs what they're actually trying to get on their ballot. Lies, lies everywhere. Also if they have a "mailing list" so you can get more information, see how many of them try to convince you that you need to sign it. And this is without dealing with outright forgeries (there was a case in AZ recently, where someone got in contact with a random pull of people who signed some ballot initiative. every single one was a forgery ) 

 

Bascily Tim Draper and everyone else using massive amounts of money to hijack the democratic process can go fuck a cactus. 

We agree. If you don't like California politics, you must move. I did. What concerns me the most is the middle class in California is moving out in droves, and landing in low tax states such as Texas, Florida, and you guessed it, Las Vegas Nevada. They leave their high tax Progressive bastions of deteriorating socialist society, move in next to me, and bring their stupid politics with them. Lame brains of the first order. They leave a hell hole and discover things are not the same here... then do everything they can to turn their new state into their old one. We need the wall on the California border to save the Republic!

I like the idea behind this. California has the largest state population by near 11mil, totaling 39.5mil the state that is closest is Texas with 28.1mil. California however has a extremely diverse population and Republican voters are basically ignored because the political majority of the population is democrat. There are 5.2mil republican voters in California, if they were compared to a state they would be the 22nd largest state by population. So what we are looking at is a significant population without a voice, which is the opposite of democracy. I honestly don't really see any downsides to this and any arguments such as "if you don't like it move" is folly, the Syrian refugees everyone complains about did that yet here we are. Plus we can finally add in US territories as states since people wont be so fixated on "its gotta be 50 states bro". There is a ton of shit we should do that we don't do because of attachment to the stupid. You cant buy any single item with a penny or a nickle yet here we are continuing to print them at a loss. 

 

Anyway it wont ever happen because people have stupid reasons for it to not happen and we wont improve as a country because every time someone tries to do something that might benefit people it gets shot down. 

Yea but unless you create what amounts to absolutely homogenous political party affiliated states there is *always* someone in that position Darkfox. 

 

 

I'm also not particularly sympathetic to arguments to the effect of "*party* ignores state because they always lose in it". In just about anywhere else in the world, if a political party fails to gain anything close to majority support somewhere, they recognize that their platform fails to represent the interest of the voters there and adjust it. In America however, the parties platform isn't the issue, it's the voters fault. Granted there's a bunch of busted ass bullshit in the American system that incentivises this, but ugh. 

 

This is going to fail because California is literally the world's fifth-largest economy, and one of the most prosperous states in the union. Very few people in California are going to want to fuck with that, let alone take the risk of fucking it up. 

Sounds to me like you guys need to strenghten the local level of government. And while we got idiots running around everywhere who want to cut themselfes "free", some localisation can be a good thing.

Exactly, but there is no level of government between the state government in Sacremento, which is so far removed that it may as well be in Washington, D.C., and the counties, which are too small and create dysfunctional public transit and education systems. As an example, the Caltrain commuter rail between San Jose and San Francisco runs through 3 different counties; none of the counties want to pay to maintain it, and the state is so far removed that it gets very little state funding, so as a result Caltrain is chronically underfunded. With Cal 3, the state government would no longer be distracted by the needs of everyone down in Los Angeles, San Diego, the Inland Empire, etc., and the more localized state government would have more of a stake in Caltrain's long-term success.

 

 

This is going to fail because California is literally the world's fifth-largest economy, and one of the most prosperous states in the union. Very few people in California are going to want to fuck with that, let alone take the risk of fucking it up. 

 

 

That is exactly what I was getting at, people aren't going to try because they are too worried about the past. They cling to things that aren't working properly and aren't willing to take risks to try and improve things. California is just doing okay, and horrible in other areas. Mainly as stated by others they focus on a few areas and ignore the rest, politically, funding wise and law wise. Cal3 is an interesting idea that could help but the main thing is regardless if it is smart or dumb that it should be considered. Also you didn't point out anything that would be bad if it happened. The economy isn't disappearing regardless if its Cal 3 or California.

Sure but I don't see how breaking up Cali will change any of that. It'll still be doing mostly ok and poorly in other things. At best it'll just change what those things are. "More local government" will do nothing to change that. And in excshgebtherevwill be a pile of political instability and uncertainty, a seperattikn of intra state factors that each region depends on, etc.

 

California, inspite of all the vague asertations made in this thread is phenomenally successful as a state. What on earth would this fix?

 

Seriously a tiny minority of people in California support this. So either you want to claim that the vast majority of the people, who actually live in the state, are to stupid to see what a great idea this is, or it isn't actually a great idea and would provide no benefit to the people living there.

 

This isn't even the first time Draper has done this nonsense. He does it every year. Most years it doesn't even make it near the ballot and the only reason this even exists is because he keeps throwing money at it because he thinks splitting up Cali will reduce his taxes.

There have been over 200 attempts to break up California. It's never gonna happen. The majority voter base comes from Progressive metropolitan over-populated mega-cities that live only to oppress the urban counties, and they will never let go of that addiction.

 

California has a gravy train with ports and tourism. Even I have to hold my nose for a week or two every year to take someone to Disneyland, Sonoma, San Francisco, or the beaches. I was born in SoCal, lived there for 38 years, and I never understood how bad it is until I moved away. I will never live there again.

Wait, he wants lower taxes by adding a level of beaurocracy? This guy needs a civics class...

 

 

 

Sounds to me like you guys need to strenghten the local level of government. And while we got idiots running around everywhere who want to cut themselfes "free", some localisation can be a good thing.

Exactly, but there is no level of government between the state government in Sacremento, which is so far removed that it may as well be in Washington, D.C., and the counties, which are too small and create dysfunctional public transit and education systems. As an example, the Caltrain commuter rail between San Jose and San Francisco runs through 3 different counties; none of the counties want to pay to maintain it, and the state is so far removed that it gets very little state funding, so as a result Caltrain is chronically underfunded. With Cal 3, the state government would no longer be distracted by the needs of everyone down in Los Angeles, San Diego, the Inland Empire, etc., and the more localized state government would have more of a stake in Caltrain's long-term success.

 

 

Just don't go overboard like Belgium and have rather ludricous amounts of subdivisions (which I strangly don't mind, I just don't see a need to "enrich" the world with such a thing)

 

That said, you folks have weird shit with that unincorporated town melarky.

Wait, he wants lower taxes by adding a level of beaurocracy? This guy needs a civics class...

 

 

He's an objectvist nitwit, and pretty well divorced from reality. This is at least the second time he's tried it. He attempted a 6 way split in 2016, and spent at least 5 million on it. It failed to make the ballot large part due to rampant fraud when collecting signatures with at least 100 thousand being thorwn out for litteraly not existing

I don't know why people are saying this "adds" a level of bureaucracy. Quite the opposite: it reduces it for most people. Right now, my state government in Sacramento is ginormous because it has to deal with everyone in San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, and other parts of the state. With Cal 3, my state government is a third of the size and focuses on a much smaller area. I don't have to worry about what's going on as much in the other two state governments.

 

Yes, there have been lots of previous failed attempts at splitting California. That fact is toxic, though: it makes Californians think this proposal is doomed for failure, so they haven't given it a chance yet. This is what's reflected in the poll numbers.

 

This proposal has already made it much farther than most previous attempts: it qualified for a statewide ballot. As Californians start to realize that this proposal deserves to be taken seriously, I expect that we will see poll numbers begin to rise.

This proposal has already made it much farther than most previous attempts: it qualified for a statewide ballot. As Californians start to realize that this proposal deserves to be taken seriously, I expect that we will see poll numbers begin to rise.

 

Because a rich person through literally millions of dollars at it, a person who's shown to be perfectly willing to commit massive fraud on exactly this in the past (Last time he tried this, literally 100 thousand signatures were thrown out for not existing. Not being faked, or fraudulently.  Literally not existing).  and what qualifies as gathering a signature is pathetically minor. If you give me millions of dollars to conduct a signature gathering campaign, next year I'll give you very good odds of getting a proposal to ban the use of hydric acid on the ballot. 

 

California, by a massive margin, does not support this. If it was a good idea for California, California would support it

 

 

Actually nuts to this, You want to argue this is such a  great idea, please do so. And if you make an argument from ideology alone I get to tase you. Specific discrete examples and facts, backed up with statistical data  as to why this will improve things for the people of california. 

Tim Draper is a smart fellow. I believe he sees this as his opportunity to use his fortune to have a positive impact on California politics for generations to come. I comment him on putting his fortune to public use.

 

As far as how this benefits Californians, I'm not an economist so I'm not going to pretend to make graphs. The official web site (cal3.com) has more information, and now that this is on the ballot, I expect to see credible think tanks and news organizations publish much more research in the coming months.

 

However, the whole question "how will this benefit Californians" is a red herring. There are two options on the ballot: one state or three states. The question should be, between the two choices, which option, 1 state or 3 states, is less bad. If Californians honestly believe that one giant state is better for them, then by all means they can vote no on the proposition. However, just as you want to see data saying that 3 states is better, before voting no on the proposition, I would want to see data saying that 1 state is better.

 

Again, there are still 5 months until the election and I am looking forward to research coming out of investigative journals to influence my vote.

Didn't take the deep state too long to kill this. Now they will argue the issue for a couple of decades, in never ending hearings, about California voters not having the right to do such a thing. I saw this coming all the way from Las Vegas. Democrats believe the plebs are there to do their bidding, and they will never allow their largest cash cow to be taken away and broken up by the help.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Splitting-up-Calif-State-Supreme-Court-takes-13085880.php

Cali's Supreme Court is trying to protect its Constitution, thought you would be praising such effort...

Cali's Supreme Court is trying to protect its Constitution, thought you would be praising such effort...

Just a second... gotta stop laughing... okay... Does protecting their Constitution include open borders, defying Federal Law, obstructing Federal agencies, declaring sanctuary state status, granting illegals driver licenses, openly registering illegals to vote, and ignoring the United States Constitution? I could go on, and on, and on, but I don't have the time.

Well, this is different. Cal 3 was killed, but Calexit is alive and well... and expanding. Calexit is the left trying to gather enough signatures to get California succession from the United States on the November ballot. Now as a package deal they want to gift one half of California to Native Americans... so they can have their own nation. I imagine many new casinos, and Elizabeth Warren running for President of this new country.

 

I have dreams of California burning up, turning into a giant mudslide, or the big one just breaking it off into the Pacific... then I wake up and it's still there. The song "California Dreaming" has changed since the '60's... it's "California Nightmare" now.

Do it California... Please, just leave.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/31/calexit-supporters-revamp-campaign-with-plan-to-convert-half-california-into-autonomous-native-american-nation.html

 

Cali's Supreme Court is trying to protect its Constitution, thought you would be praising such effort...

Just a second... gotta stop laughing... okay... Does protecting their Constitution include open borders, defying Federal Law, obstructing Federal agencies, declaring sanctuary state status, granting illegals driver licenses, openly registering illegals to vote, and ignoring the United States Constitution? I could go on, and on, and on, but I don't have the time.

 

State rights up until what you allow, seems arbitrary.