19 replies to this topic

[HackSlash]

Sorry, if this seems a little macabre.  As of late I've been giving some thought as to my own funeral. 

Let me get this out.  Very out loud and clear, "NO I'M NOT THINKING ABOUT DOING ANY RASH.  I'M NOT THINKING ABOUT TAKING MY OWN LIFE."  Jesus.

I had to say that, because you know this day and age.  Fuck a few years ago I said something on Facebook, and the MPs along with the Saint Jean Police showed up at the door, and I nearly spent Christmas locked up in the Psych Ward at the HHR (local hospital).  Shit, it was only a fast talking friend who kept me from being arrested and taken into protective custody.

Do you blame me for being cautious?

 

I've been giving some thought lately to my own funeral.  What I want to have happen.  Let me be honest, I'm an atheist.   I've gone so far as to renounce my baptism.  I still remember when I contacted the United Church of Canada and told them to stick that magical shit straight up their asshole.  They even went so far as to send a minster to my house to counsel me about my "pain and anger at the Lord", and my "irrational beliefs".

Really?  You want to talk about my irrational beliefs?  You believe in an invisible, magical, cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own Father and lives in the sky.  And if you tell this zombie through telepathic communication, that you accept him as your master, and beg for his forgiveness, he will remove from your person an evil presence, that is present in all of humanity, because some rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magic tree. 

And you want to talk about irrational belief?

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone.  I have no problem with Christians.  Who am I to deny you your beliefs?  If your faith brings you comfort in your times of distress, and your belief in an almighty judge makes you be a good person, I respect that.  I do.

Back to the point in hand. 

I've been thinking about my own funeral.  I've been thinking about it a lot.

Here's how I see it.

I've decided to give my body to medical science.  Specifically, I'm going to be a cadaver.  I'd like to think that some future surgeon will have the opportunity to practice on my corpse.  Here's a Doctor who can save multiple lives, by learning his/her skills on me.  That will be my legacy.

My wake. 

No clergy chanting magical incantations over my body (Really? No shit you hell bound baby eating atheist).  No tears.  I want my friends and family not mourning my death, but celebrating my life.  The fact that I was here.  I want a slide show of all the events in my life, all the people I met, all the things I've done displayed as Frank Sinatra's "My Way" plays over the speakers.  My estate will provide all the booze and (legal), narcotics.  I want those who attend to have a fucking party...literally. 

That's how I want to go.  

How about you? 

[Cydonian Knight]

I'd like my organs to be donated for transplant, the rest of my remains to be cremated, and half, if not all, of my ashes to be thrown into the ocean (although I think that last bit is not legal, but what do I care if I'm dead? Lol)

[Lysistrata]

Fuck that shit... I'm never gonna die.

[ccabal86]

Also an Atheist like you HackSlash, and I have thought about my funeral too. I'm on the position that they can do whatever they want, it won't matter (I'll be dead after all). I will donate my organs if they can help someone. I will not donate my body to medical science though. I've done medical training at one point in my life, and I don't really want to end up like the "exhibits" that I worked with. But really the only thing I EXPLICITLY don't want is to have some religious cook give a ceremony. Other than that, I'm willing to compromise

[NabuPilasar]

Hmm. I think this is a very useful conversation. I have thought often of my death. Not in a suicidal sense, but moreso that I have seen a fair amount of life in my 32 years, and I am not terribly impressed by the things the world can offer. Not so impressed that I would cling to it as tightly as some others.

For me, my favorite pastime is to sit quietly and think. Whereas Hackslash has had a very negative experience with religion, I have had personal experiences of God that have persuaded me that he does exist. I have not dedicated my life to pursueding people that God is real, but I have dedicated my life to something based on that fact. My personal mission statement is to serve God by developing individuals to be effective, compassionate servant leaders.

When I do die, I hope that in my wake I will leave a legacy of having invested in leaders who can serve rather than control the people they lead. Perhaps my funeral will be one more venue where that conversation can be had.

[Samus]

Sorry to derail.. but considering you already derailed your own thread by jabbing at religion. I just want to understand something about Atheists/Atheism.

 

If you believe there is no "magical cosmic zombie".

 

How can one whole heartedly believe that everything in this world was not created by some form of higher power/being. There are so many things unexplainable in this world, that has had to have serious thought and imagination in its creation. Very small example is just looking at the human body and how all of its components fit together to make us what we are today.

 

 

I can't seem to get it through my head how one can not consider there is a possibility that everything that belongs in this world was designed. Not just some random thing of beauty

[joe44]

technical question:

if im dead, how can i let you(IRON) know?

...or you dont want to know?

Edited by joe44, 16 September 2018 - 10:38 PM.

[Cydonian Knight]

I don't want to start a heated discussion, because one shouldn't debate politics or religion if one wants to avoid conflict, but as I see it human body has had millions, even billions, of years to make all of its components fit together, by natural selection and evolution, trial and error. The rest of the universe is like it's just by chance, coincidence and following the universe's fundamental laws.

I'm not saying there is not a supreme being who created everything it exists, ever existed or will exist; nor I'm saying there is such being. All I'm saying is the universe is just a very big stage where nothing can be conceived which brokes one or more of the universe's laws. If someone made those rules or not is out of my knowledge.

[Lysistrata]

I'm with Samus on the issue. There are questions that I don't know the answers to. That means no one knows the answers. The word "believe" means you don't know for sure... it's just the answer that has the highest percentage chance inside your own brain that you desire to be the correct answer. I myself, do not live my life on belief. If I don't know for sure, I don't spend any further time on it.

 

I grew up in Christian schools, which means I was taught the King James Bible. As I got older, I asked more questions about what I was being taught. Common sense will tell you that the Bible is a book, and books are written by humans. Humans have an amazing ability to write amazing stories, and create books from their stories, and I don't think it was any different 2000 years ago.

 

So I choose to keep an open mind on everything, until I find the truth.

[SeaBeeGipson]

technical question:
if im dead, how can i let you(IRON) know?
...or you dont want to know?

I know we have a few groups where people are on Facebook. Other than that, not sure.

I actually just spoke with my girlfriend about this topic the other day. We're converted to Latter Day Saints (Mormon) and the belief their is that the body is sacred and should be buried. However, land plots and cemeteries are filling up and she would rather get cremated. For me personally, I'm registered to donate my organs. I'd actually prefer a burial at sea above anything else. I've always loved the water (Born on the coast, all state water polo and swimmer.) I've always loved being around the water so I feel its fit I would go out in the water. That would be my goals for what's next as far as my funeral.

[ccabal86]

I don't want to start a heated discussion, because one shouldn't debate politics or religion if one wants to avoid conflict, but as I see it human body has had millions, even billions, of years to make all of its components fit together, by natural selection and evolution, trial and error. The rest of the universe is like it's just by chance, coincidence and following the universe's fundamental laws.

 

Exactly. The analogy creationists like to draw is a whirlwind blowing through a junkyard and when it settles "chance" has blown a jumbo jet together. They correctly point out that this is incredibly improbable, but it matters not, because the analogy is a completely false one. The formation of life, and eventually Humans is like a long trek taking billions of years up the slope of a tall mountain. The way is littered with the fossils of the "tries" and "variations" that didn't make it, but died off somwhere along the way. Also, if you look at any living thing closely (Humans as well), you will see that even though its body is highly complex, it's actually full of flaws, or overly complicated "solutions" that any engineer could have designed to me more efficient, durable, etc. Again, I can only highly recommend Richard Dawkins' book Climbing Mount Improbable, and NOT because I want to shove some Dawkins down your throat, but because he does a genuinely good job of explaining how evolution works in Layman's terms.

 

As for whether there is a sentient "Grand Designer" of the universe - we don't know. What we do know is that, at present, there is not a shred of evidence that would hint at its existence (the antics of ancient middle-eastern tribes do not count in my book). Until some of that arises, there is no reason to believe in one.

[Samus]

 

I don't want to start a heated discussion, because one shouldn't debate politics or religion if one wants to avoid conflict, but as I see it human body has had millions, even billions, of years to make all of its components fit together, by natural selection and evolution, trial and error. The rest of the universe is like it's just by chance, coincidence and following the universe's fundamental laws.

 

Exactly. The analogy creationists like to draw is a whirlwind blowing through a junkyard and when it settles "chance" has blown a jumbo jet together. They correctly point out that this is incredibly improbable, but it matters not, because the analogy is a completely false one. The formation of life, and eventually Humans is like a long trek taking billions of years up the slope of a tall mountain. The way is littered with the fossils of the "tries" and "variations" that didn't make it, but died off somwhere along the way. Also, if you look at any living thing closely (Humans as well), you will see that even though its body is highly complex, it's actually full of flaws, or overly complicated "solutions" that any engineer could have designed to me more efficient, durable, etc. Again, I can only highly recommend Richard Dawkins' book Climbing Mount Improbable, and NOT because I want to shove some Dawkins down your throat, but because he does a genuinely good job of explaining how evolution works in Layman's terms.

 

As for whether there is a sentient "Grand Designer" of the universe - we don't know. What we do know is that, at present, there is not a shred of evidence that would hint at its existence (the antics of ancient middle-eastern tribes do not count in my book). Until some of that arises, there is no reason to believe in one.

 

There is several reasons to BELIEVE, otherwise we wouldn't have all the religions we have in todays world and all the people that believe in them.

 

You say there is not a shred of evidence that would hint at its existence? Okay cool. Don't totally agree. But equally there is not a shred of evidence that debunks these believes. So I ask again, Atheists how can you completely disregard the possibility of a "magical cosmic zombie" when you yourself do not have a shred of evidence that can possibly debunk these believes.

 

It's fine not to believe in what we currently know as "religion", but I think it's highly ignorant to completely outright disregard the possibility of anything in life. And if you don't outright disregard the possibilities, then you somewhat "believe".. Which is why I think the whole concept of Atheisms is just stupid

[ccabal86]

There is several reasons to BELIEVE, otherwise we wouldn't have all the religions we have in todays world and all the people that believe in them.

 

Religions have, for a long period of time, benefited humans by facilitating cooperation among a relatively large number of individuals. It could have been any other shared belief, but no matter it's likely that the net benefit used to be somewhat positive. It has vastly outgrown its usefulness and since by it's nature rigid and dogmatic, it only incites conflict in a globalized world.
 

You say there is not a shred of evidence that would hint at its existence? Okay cool. Don't totally agree. But equally there is not a shred of evidence that debunks these believes. So I ask again, Atheists how can you completely disregard the possibility of a "magical cosmic zombie" when you yourself do not have a shred of evidence that can possibly debunk these believes.
 
It's fine not to believe in what we currently know as "religion", but I think it's highly ignorant to completely outright disregard the possibility of anything in life. And if you don't outright disregard the possibilities, then you somewhat "believe".. Which is why I think the whole concept of Atheisms is just stupid

 

You haven't read what I said:
"As for whether there is a sentient "Grand Designer" of the universe - we don't know. What we do know is that, at present, there is not a shred of evidence that would hint at its existence (the antics of ancient middle-eastern tribes do not count in my book). Until some of that arises, there is no reason to believe in one."

 

What you're missing is a distinction between Negative and Positive Atheism, which is this:

 

• Negative Atheism: any type of atheism where a person does not believe in the existence of any deities but does not explicitly assert that there are none. (What I just referenced)

• Positive atheism, is the form of atheism that additionally asserts that no deities exist. (As I see it this might just as well be another religion)

So to sum it up: Were I presented with convincing evidence, I would be ready to accept the existence of a deity. But it just so happens that there is no such evidence, and I very much doubt it would ever come to surface. Therefore, for the time being, the best course of action is to take Occam's Razor to the whole idea until the situation changes.

[Blade 619]

I'm not actively religious, but members of my family are. Way I see it is that my body is dead, if if my "soul" is dead too then my funeral is of little bother to me, if my "soul" is alive then I'll have other things to be interested in. 

In essence, funerals are for those who are left behind. I'd like it to be a celebration of the things that I've done, and a chance for the peoplw ho I've had a significant impact on to get together and share memories to close the book. But if those who were closest to me want it to have a Christian / completely nonreligious feel to it that is up to them, I'm probably not going to be sitting through it. 

[joe44]

i do not pray but...

Spoiler

i believe in IRON

Edited by joe44, 17 September 2018 - 08:18 PM.

[ccabal86]

HA, nice!

[Samus]

Negative Atheism: any type of atheism where a person does not believe in the existence of any deities but does not explicitly assert that there are none. (What I just referenced) Positive atheism, is the form of atheism that additionally asserts that no deities exist. (As I see it this might just as well be another religion)

 

I was todays years old when I discovered there were 2 types of Atheism :v

 

Thanks anyhow

[Lysistrata]

I'm Agnostic... you are all wrong until you can prove yourself right

[Cydonian Knight]

I'm Agnostic... you are all wrong until you can prove yourself right

This. There's no proof to deny there's a God. There's no proof to prove it exists. BTW what kind of agnostic do you consider yourself Lys?

[Lysistrata]

 

I'm Agnostic... you are all wrong until you can prove yourself right

This. There's no proof to deny there's a God. There's no proof to prove it exists. BTW what kind of agnostic do you consider yourself Lys?

 

I guess according to ccabal… I'm a "negative agnostic". It's the form of agnostic that additionally asserts that no one has a fucking clue. I just had another birthday guys, and I'm getting older every day, take some advice from me, and don't burn another minute thinking about this… it will drive you nuts, because there is no answer. Just live every day like you're never gonna die... at the same time live every day of your life like it's your last. Make sure the people you care about know you love them... it may be their last as well. Be a good person, and everything you do, remember it has an effect on them. Make sure your effect is positive.