19 replies to this topic

[DeathMerchant]

Today the closing arguments for the Rittenhouse Trial wraps up and the jury will begin deliberations. The trial has been very controversial in it's regards to self defense and in many ways mirrors the George Zimmerman trial.

What are your expectations to how the jury deliberations will unfold?

My predication? Rittenhouse gets off on all charges except Possession Of A Dangerous Weapon By A Person Under 18. Wisconsin Penal Law only allows minors to possess firearms if actively Hunting. But even that's only a Misdemeanor.

The Judge allowed the Prosecution to introduce lesser charges so it's slightly plausible the Jury might find Rittenhouse as the initial aggressor.

Hard to secure a guilty verdict on Rittenhouse when the DA let the Rioters walk and threw out the illegal weapon charge on Rosenbaum, who was conceal carrying a Glock illegally because his Permit expired (how he was granted a Pistol Permit is beyond me as he was a Felon barred from law from owning and handling a firearm).

[DeathMerchant]

Scratch the Underage Weapons Charge, the Judge dismissed it on the premise the law was poorly written.

[brewersalliance]

My predication? Rittenhouse gets off on all charges except Possession Of A Dangerous Weapon By A Person Under 18. Wisconsin Penal Law only allows minors to possess firearms if actively Hunting. But even that's only a Misdemeanor.

 

 

thats not correct.  as a wisconsin resident, I can confirm the dismissal was correct.  Hunting is under the age of 16 for that to take into effect so the only way he could have been conficted was if it was a SBR, which it was not.  No idea how the prosecutors did not know the law when its pretty clear about ut

[DeathMerchant]

 

My predication? Rittenhouse gets off on all charges except Possession Of A Dangerous Weapon By A Person Under 18. Wisconsin Penal Law only allows minors to possess firearms if actively Hunting. But even that's only a Misdemeanor.

 

 

thats not correct.  as a wisconsin resident, I can confirm the dismissal was correct.  Hunting is under the age of 16 for that to take into effect so the only way he could have been conficted was if it was a SBR, which it was not.  No idea how the prosecutors did not know the law when its pretty clear about ut

 

Very interesting. Some of the Pro 2nd Amendment blogs (and numerous news sites) I follow got it wrong. I was unaware of the SBR issue in regards to that.

[Lysistrata]

I have strong beliefs in another direction. Defending all communities against arson, looting, injury, and murder is essential. I'm utterly shocked that there was not an army of Kyle Rittenhouse's there to protect the lives and property of Kenosha Wisconsin. He never should have been alone, nor should he have ever been forced to run from a mob of rioters that intended to beat him to death.

 

Before this is all history, I'm sure we'll be seeing many more Kyle's.

[onbekende]

It boils down to a case off how far one can invoke self-defence when activly seeking out an armed conflict.

 

I'd say this one will be sided on the self-defence side, but future "Kyle's" might find themselfes being less about defense and more about vigilantism.

[Lysistrata]

but future "Kyle's" might find themselfes being less about defense and more about vigilantism.

What is it called when the police are not allowed to take care of it? 

[Chaplain of death]

Today the closing arguments for the Rittenhouse Trial wraps up and the jury will begin deliberations. The trial has been very controversial in it's regards to self defense and in many ways mirrors the George Zimmerman trial.

What are your expectations to how the jury deliberations will unfold?

My predication? Rittenhouse gets off on all charges except Possession Of A Dangerous Weapon By A Person Under 18. Wisconsin Penal Law only allows minors to possess firearms if actively Hunting. But even that's only a Misdemeanor.

The Judge allowed the Prosecution to introduce lesser charges so it's slightly plausible the Jury might find Rittenhouse as the initial aggressor.

Hard to secure a guilty verdict on Rittenhouse when the DA let the Rioters walk and threw out the illegal weapon charge on Rosenbaum, who was conceal carrying a Glock illegally because his Permit expired (how he was granted a Pistol Permit is beyond me as he was a Felon barred from law from owning and handling a firearm).

 

Rosenbaum isn't the one who had an a weapon and expired concealed carry permit. That was the victim who survived Gaige Grosskreutz.

 

I have strong beliefs in another direction. Defending all communities against arson, looting, injury, and murder is essential. I'm utterly shocked that there was not an army of Kyle Rittenhouse's there to protect the lives and property of Kenosha Wisconsin. He never should have been alone, nor should he have ever been forced to run from a mob of rioters that intended to beat him to death.

 

Before this is all history, I'm sure we'll be seeing many more Kyle's.

 

He wasn't alone. He was in group protecting a car dealership (at the owners request/invitation iirc) that had he stayed with, nothing would have happened. He went out away from that group with 1 other person, armed, for the purpose of offering medical aid to protesters. They did so armed, and despite not having medical training, and with the knowledge that the protesters were hostile towards their presence. There is nothing inherently wrong with what they did up to this point, but it is almost certainly going to provoke a confrontation of some sort with protesters. They showed up because they thought that it would be a riot and they would try to destroy property and be violent, so walking out into that crowd with only 1 other person seems awfully stupid unless they are attempting to provoke a confrontation (but obviously there's no way to tell what exactly their true intentions were). 

 

 

 

but future "Kyle's" might find themselfes being less about defense and more about vigilantism.

What is it called when the police are not allowed to take care of it? 

 

 

The police were there are moving to contain the situation? He literally had to cross the police line when he went to offer medical aid to protesters. He had already achieved his goal of preventing the car dealership from being vandalized. 

[DeathMerchant]

I have strong beliefs in another direction. Defending all communities against arson, looting, injury, and murder is essential. I'm utterly shocked that there was not an army of Kyle Rittenhouse's there to protect the lives and property of Kenosha Wisconsin. He never should have been alone, nor should he have ever been forced to run from a mob of rioters that intended to beat him to death.

 

Before this is all history, I'm sure we'll be seeing many more Kyle's.

Over the past few years of BLM/Antifa riots, Militias sometimes make an appearance. The Lightfoot militias spread across multiple states used to show up quite regularly in Open Carry states to protect everyone's Constitutional Rights of free speech. Usually 10-30 members would show up. Proud Boys and Oathkeepers make the news a lot for showing up but they aren't Militias. They like to ride in motorcycles, pickup trucks, wave flags and yell loudly, but none of them actually train for small unit tactics or participate in serious firearm training as a squad. Its like being in a club, they don't have the professionalism and organization of the Militias.

 

Lets face it, the majority of us Conservatives have jobs and responsibilities in life. And I'd venture that ANTIFA/BLM tend to belong to the Entitlement class who rarely possess good paying jobs and have very little to actually live for. That is my reasoning why mobs and mobs of rioters arrive in full force. They have little to fear in terms of actually being convicted for their crimes (especially if they are rioting in city with a local liberal government).

 

 

It boils down to a case off how far one can invoke self-defence when activly seeking out an armed conflict.

 

I'd say this one will be sided on the self-defence side, but future "Kyle's" might find themselfes being less about defense and more about vigilantism.

When police are issued 'Stand Down' Orders and circles the wagons at the Department building, or the Department orders its Officers to watch but not intervene as felony criminal acts are occurring, its not surprising individuals seize the initiative to protect their homes and families. Kyle Rittenhouse could've been me. If Antifa/BLM were to theoretically riot in my suburban community, throw Molotovs at my neighbor's homes, with my neighbors families still inside, I would intervene without a moment's hesitation. Heck, even my liberal state of New York has it in their Penal Law that if someone is committing Arson, is justifiable to use lethal force for self defense, if you reasonably believe someone's life is in imminent danger.

[DeathMerchant]

Rosenbaum isn't the one who had an a weapon and expired concealed carry permit. That was the victim who survived Gaige Grosskreutz.

 

 

My apologies, I wrote the wrong name.

 

Did some more researching and discovered Grosskreutz wasn't a Felon, he only had a Misdemeanor, which explains how he received a Pistol Permit.

[onbekende]

 

but future "Kyle's" might find themselfes being less about defense and more about vigilantism.

What is it called when the police are not allowed to take care of it? 

 

Deriliction of duty? Anarchy? Take your pick imo.

 

I am merely saying that at one point vigilantism also becomes unlawfull.

[ccabal86]

 

 

but future "Kyle's" might find themselfes being less about defense and more about vigilantism.

What is it called when the police are not allowed to take care of it? 

 

Deriliction of duty? Anarchy? Take your pick imo.

 

I am merely saying that at one point vigilantism also becomes unlawfull.

 

As I see it,the problem with vigilantism and in fact having guns widely available in any populace is bad because a large portion of said populace is made up of absolute fucking morons. Therefore, you will have many absolute fucking morons with guns running around.

 

Please note that I'm not singling out the US here, I feel exactly the same about my own fellow countrymen.

[brewersalliance]

Did some more researching and discovered Grosskreutz wasn't a Felon, he only had a Misdemeanor, which explains how he received a Pistol Permit.

 

in wisconsin you dont need a permit to carry a pistol, you only need one to conceal it

[Lysistrata]

Therefore, you will have many absolute fucking morons with guns running around.

We do have many absolute fucking morons with guns running around. Most of the absolute fucking morons with guns running around are in Democrat controlled cities under the most extreme gun control laws. Pretty much, the only people using their guns in those cities are the criminals that are not complying with their gun control laws. The law abiding have no defense against them, and the criminals have absolutely no fear of the absolute fucking morons that created the gun control laws in their cities.

 

Wyoming has more guns per capita than any other state in the USA... by far. Absolute fucking morons running around with guns do not live in Wyoming... because they would be killed by everyone else. The 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution was ratified for a reason... and if someone wants to say it's for hunting, they will get laughed out of the room. It has served us well, and it's the only thing that keeps the power firmly in the hands of the American people. So, we'll keep it... thank you very much.

[Chaplain of death]

 

Did some more researching and discovered Grosskreutz wasn't a Felon, he only had a Misdemeanor, which explains how he received a Pistol Permit.

 

in wisconsin you dont need a permit to carry a pistol, you only need one to conceal it

 

 

To be fair Gaige was reportedly carrying the pistol in a holster in the small of his back, they didn't specify but my assumption based on that placement is that he was concealing but hard to say.

 

 

 

Therefore, you will have many absolute fucking morons with guns running around.

We do have many absolute fucking morons with guns running around. Most of the absolute fucking morons with guns running around are in Democrat controlled cities under the most extreme gun control laws. Pretty much, the only people using their guns in those cities are the criminals that are not complying with their gun control laws. The law abiding have no defense against them, and the criminals have absolutely no fear of the absolute fucking morons that created the gun control laws in their cities.

 

Wyoming has more guns per capita than any other state in the USA... by far. Absolute fucking morons running around with guns do not live in Wyoming... because they would be killed by everyone else. The 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution was ratified for a reason... and if someone wants to say it's for hunting, they will get laughed out of the room. It has served us well, and it's the only thing that keeps the power firmly in the hands of the American people. So, we'll keep it... thank you very much.

 

 

To be fair Kyle Rittenhouse was an active shooter by the time Gaige got to him. He was the classic right wing argument about good guy with a gun, and yet they've done everything they can to vilify him and the other victims. 

[Robert2424]

Not Guilty on all counts.

[DeathMerchant]

Surprise surprise...

 

Word on the street is tonight the Kenosha Walmart and Target are giving away free TVs, Playstations, Nike Sneakers, and handbags.

[Lysistrata]

Very surprised... I thought for sure it would be a hung jury.

Word on the street is tonight the Kenosha Walmart and Target are giving away free TVs, Playstations, Nike Sneakers, and handbags.

I've heard that as well... plus many defamation lawsuits, and probably many more Kyle's. We live in very strange times.

 

I think I'll make a mimosa, get in the hot tub, crank up some tunes... and laugh.

[joe44]

as for me, to the point. This guy is good:

 

as im not an american and dont understand:

riots can break out everywhere....ok. How its possible the country administration did not react correct to this movement and allowed it to happen/spread? I mean all that looting, arson, violence or even that Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone or Chaz. Isnt that a bancrupcy of a country system? 

Edited by joe44, 19 November 2021 - 11:44 PM.

[DeathMerchant]

as for me, to the point. This guy is good:

 

as im not an american and dont understand:

riots can break out everywhere....ok. How its possible the country administration did not react correct to this movement and allowed it to happen/spread? I mean all that looting, arson, violence or even that Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone or Chaz. Isnt that a bancrupcy of a country system? 

Mostly had to do with individual State/Local jurisdictions. Trump tried to have the Feds protect the outside of the Federal Courthouse in Portland Oregon but that interfered with the city of Portland's jurisdiction and the Mayor's wishes, so the Feds could only police inside the courthouse.

 

Since the State's and Cities are in control of enforcing their own laws, they have the legal right to tell their cop's to stand down and let the rioters do whatever they please. The main idea behind that is hoping that after 1 or 2 nights, the rioters get it out of their systems, get tired, and eventually go home. Portland is a prime example of that not working out too well.

 

Pretty much every riot that occurred in 2020/2021, all happened in Democrat controlled States/Cities which tend to be soft on crime. Had rioters showed up in Republican areas, they would've been arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Combine Democrat District Attorneys, spineless Judges, a revolving door criminal justice system, and you get the perfect storm of bare bone consequences for rioting.