635 replies to this topic

[DarkFox]

I thought we had more time. My bad for not clarifying the deadline. Overall I am pretty vexed at how many town got themselves killed. 

[Preston]

Good game all - you have no idea how stressful this was from our end!

 

I'll throw out some extra data for you since TW hasnt revealed the game setup yet. 

 

1. Mafia had daytalk. LWW speculated about this on D1 even

 

2. Mafia did NOT have safeclaims! In a lore-heavy themed game this was a MASSIVE source of stress for us.

 

3. Mafia setup was as follows: 

* Imran was Ascetic 1-shot Ninja - i.e. all night actions except kills would return "No Effect" and he had a 1-shot ninja kill

* Lyner was 1-shot bulletproof, 1-shot strongman

* Preston was 1-shot bulletproof Flavor Cop

* Robert was Roleblocker

 

4. NONE of us were Thanos. We were not given any information about the stones or what they would do. Our role PM included the line "You will win when the Black Order is the only faction remaining or when nothing can prevent the same." As a result we waffled back and forth between whether the stones would be helpful or harmful for us, whether there was another faction, and whether Thanos was actually in the game or not as a SK. 

 

5. Mafia night actions as follows:

N1: Lyner kill iSoc (normal kill), Preston investigates KevinH, Robert blocks Velocity, Imran no action

N2: Lyner kills TM (normal kill), Preston investigates MK, Robert blocks LWW, Imran no action

N3: Lyner kills LWW (strongman kill), Preston investigates iSoc2, Robert blocks Velocity, Imran no action

N4: Imran kills Zacch (ninja kill), Robert blocks MK, Preston investigates Brewers, Lyner no action

 

6. Our investigation results were as follows:

* Found a baton and a blonde hair (KevinH, Black Widow)

* Found a switchblade (MK, we believe Gamora)

* Detected a slight Gamma signature (iSoc2, Bruce Banner)

* Detected psionic energy (Brewers, Wanda)

 

7. After N3 Lyner lost his 1-shot bulletproof as a "Balancing decision" by TW, which REALLY freaked us out because we speculated there was a vigilante and/or a SK in the game - thus we needed to figure out a way to get through N4 without one of us dying. 

 

8. As of D4/N4 we were pretty solidly convinced that Brewers had to be Thanos as a SK who stood to win if he collected all the stones. This came out in our D4 posting, and our N4 planning involved gaming out how to neutralize both Brewers as Thanos and MK as a potential vigilante. We went kinda nuts debating how best to proceed, trying for a night where we both got a kill and none of us died, or that failing if one of us died we were in the best possible position to go into D5 to attack Brewers as Thanos.

 

9. TW reported our N4 actions on 9/10, but since the game hadn't started we spent a LONG time thinking that we were going to only later find out who of us had died and that D5 would be about to happen. 

 

10. If D5 had happened it would have been a struggle to make Brewers-as-Thanos stick. We relied on the idea that MK would confirm that my flavor results were real and that if one of us had died to make D5 happen at ALL it would have confirmed a SK was in the game because there would have been a mafia death. Our nightmare scenario was that BOTH Brewers was Thanos-as-SK and MK was vigilante (2 killing roles), and that if Robert had died we would not have a roleblock to stop MK on N5. Lyner losing his 1-shot bulletproof made us speculate that TW was giving the town more of a chance to night kill us and balance the game, which supported this possibility.

 

We started the game working from a strong fear of our claims being instant scum tells because our names would be either duplicates (instant fail) or weak (because we'd have to pick side characters to avoid main names), but by the end of the game we knew/suspected who most everyone was before we had to claim for ourselves. The fact of people treating stone names as instantly proven town was a serious wildcard that we griped about pretty hard - the complete reversal after Velocity's Vision claim showed how powerful that was.

 

Because we thought Thanos was in the game, that actually kept us away from a lot of otherwise obvious targets. We speculated Thanos would have bulletproof, thus we wanted to investigate any Thanos candidates first and then use strongman on him if found. This caused us a lot of problems overall in terms of who we let ourselves target, and was part of the reason we targeted less-obvious people.

 

We generally tried to keep Imran inactive at night so that he could claim Commuter if challenged - a weak claim, but the only way to justify the involuntary 'no result' he would give. We figured he'd claim Falcon or something that thematically fit.

 

I can confirm that killing Tony on N2 was NOT a personal thing at all. We had ended up with ALL of us off of the Kevin wagon, which left us in an awkward position. MK would have been perfect (he voted for Brewers) but we suspected MK as a possible Thanos target so we investigated first. We didnt kill iSoc2 due to him having JUST been replaced and possibly being able to use his very awkward day-end vote as potential lynch material later. We ultimately picked Tony because it was Kevin's chosen wagon, which made it look like scum were trying to throw doubt on those who had jumped in to save Kevin. We also had the logic that since TM was Kevin's pick, if Lyner was observed he could claim vigilante carrying out Kevin's guess. 

 

The chained claims at the end of D3 really narrowed the playing field, but also made our N3 actions kinda obvious - we HAD to kill the actual cop, and we didnt want to risk him surviving so we used Lyner's strongman to prevent Zacch's bodyguard from working - another doctor being in play wasnt even on our radar. We figured LWW would be watched so we HAD to roleblock Velocity. Investigating iSoc2 was because we thought he might be The Collector and have a stone, which would have massively affected our D4 plans if he was able to claim a stone name and be instantly considered proven town. We seriously were not expecting LWW to have the reality stone!

 

With the field narrowed so much on D4 that's when we REALLY started thinking that with so few people left Brewers had to be Thanos by process of elimination, and when he claimed universal backup that totally felt like a Thanos fakeclaim - the sequence of no action on N1, followed by getting a doctor power when the time stone was lost. As the 'flavor guy' I was the only one that could safely start speculating about Thanos at that point and seeding the attack on Brewers for the next day, wherein I would claim my investigation results had confirmed it if D5 occurred at all. But even so it was a VERY close call and somewhat tipped my hand.

 

For myself, what you saw of my posting style is pretty much how I am when I'm town as well. I tend to parse and give reactions/opinions to what has happened since my last post, then get into my own theories and speculation about suspects. This means my posts are pretty uniformly long but also show i'm giving opinions on everything that's happening instead of hiding my thoughts for the most part - Imran referenced this when he made fun of my walls of text, which is a thing I did way back when I played mafia here before. This game the town gave me a LOT of viable material to scum hunt with - the odd posts by Velocity and iSoc2 at the end of D2, Zacch being all over the place, and then Brewers' role oddity that we had to coax out of DF all made for viable 'something wrong here' fodder. If anything I felt I'd been a bit aggressive going after Velocity on D3 and then iSoc2 on D4 - that's gotten me into trouble sometimes as town too. 

 

I was also trying to seed from early on that I was very much paying attention to flavor in this game, to support my eventual claim if I had to make it. But in all seriousness TW has commented in the past that if we'd guessed more about the flavor setup for his games it could have led us to figuring things out, so I had that basis to work from. 

 

The flavor results we got were a little confounding because some of them had mixed interpretations - 'blonde' hair for black widow when she was redhead in Infinity War, switchblade could be Gamora OR Thanos, the slight gamma signature and psionic energy both could also have been references to Thanos since both of those apply to the stones/him. It felt like TW was denying us solid confirmation of if someone was/wasn't Thanos by the end. 

 

Overall there's no question we got REALLY lucky this game, both in our kill results and with town giving us plenty of red herrings to hide among. 

 

So yeah, good game to everyone! Brewers, you really had us worried all at several major points with how closely you were working out who was who - if we hadn't thought you might be a bulletproof Thanos you might have been our N4 kill target

 

[Zacch]

Good Game All, lets start the next one.

Lyner's strongman to prevent Zacch's bodyguard from working

 

So Roberts fake anger was likely more about wasting lyner's stongman when I didn't bodyguard LWW. 

[Preston]

 

So Roberts fake anger was likely more about wasting lyner's stongman when I didn't bodyguard LWW. 

As Roleblocker, Robert was prepping to claim Jailer if he had to - the idea being that he was both protecting and blocking someone at the same time. His claimed anger was much for the same reason that Brewers had assumed you'd be blocking LWW, that Robert-as-Jailer was protecting Velocity's stone because he thought you'd be on someone else. 

 

Jailer isnt a great claim, especially with how blocking Velocity lined up with LWW's death, but it was all Robert really had to work with if he was tracked by DF on N3.

[Imran Ehsan]

gg had fun. It was really fun strategising with Preston Lyner and robert on discord.

[lilweirdward]

I have a feeling that discord day talk is incredibly OP, especially with four experienced players who are active on discord. If we keep doing it that way, I almost wonder if mods shouldn't start balancing games to be more inherently pro town (or at least anti mafia), because I think it'd be difficult for them to compete when mafia can spend a whole day quickly strategizing in real time.

Thanks for the info though Preston, that's really interesting. Hopefully we keep getting more active games like this.

[Preston]

I have a feeling that discord day talk is incredibly OP, especially with four experienced players who are active on discord. If we keep doing it that way, I almost wonder if mods shouldn't start balancing games to be more inherently pro town (or at least anti mafia), because I think it'd be difficult for them to compete when mafia can spend a whole day quickly strategizing in real time.

Thanks for the info though Preston, that's really interesting. Hopefully we keep getting more active games like this.

 

A lot of the time it was just Imran and I talking; at several points we kinda poked Lyner and/or Robert to be more active, or to bring them up to speed on what was going on. On D4 at one point we were contemplating a vote blitz, and we were repeating over and over "this means we need everyone ONLINE and ACTIVE". lol. Sometimes I thought they were reading our discord more than the actual thread. 

 

Daytalk can definitely help, but it only does so much. 

[Lyner]

Lyner did his usual act of only saying enough to fly under the radar, idk how he keeps getting away with it but it's honestly impressive at this point lol.

GG, glad IRON mafia was back for a short time at least.

love u too lww 

 

 

GG probably the most elite mafia team I've ever been despite my underperformance

 

And Discord Mafia daytalk does feel a bit OP for real-time maneuvering, compared to quicktalk

Edited by Lyner, 20 September 2022 - 04:17 AM.

[Imran Ehsan]

Discord did really help. We swtched our strategies several times during the day based on how the game was going on. But it is to be noted it also depends on the players, luckily we had 4 active players who checked discord regularly. Also me and Preston were really throwing out a lot of theories and strategies before deciding on which way to go. Inactive players probably wouldnt have been able to take advantage of Discord day talk.

[Imran Ehsan]

Posted this on discord, but posting here again regarding why we killed who we did

 

N1: We killed iSoc on N1 bc he sucks. OK actually he was not likely to be watched, and he is hard to convince to get on mislynch wagons.

N2: We killed TM on n2 bc we didn't want to kill anyone not on the Kevin wagon as all of us were off it. Also we knew Robert will be under fire on D3 so we gave him the defense "why will I kill someone who I was voting for". I actually used that to defend him later when he had 3 votes on him.

 

We also knew velocity = watcher/vision before he claimed. I found a breadcrumb he left in D1 about he will be watching or something like that. So we pushed for his lynch which resulted in him actually claiming.

N3: Jazz outing the cop later was a bonus, but bc of velocity no one protected him. But wouldn't have helped anyway, we used strong man to kill him.

 

N4: We were pretty sure MK is the Vig when iSoc 2.0 turned up vanilla. We blocked him and killed Zacch. At that point we were pretty convinced brewers = Thanos, so we thought Thanos will not want Velocity saved (to get at stones) and it was obvious Zacch will guard Velocity. So we killed Zacch, the least likely to be protected by brewers/doc and blocked MK to prevent the Vig killing one of us. If brewers protected Zacch we would have been screwed bc we were killing on the assumption brewers is Thanos. Otherwise, we were planning to block and kill MK (the next least likely to be protected by doc). 

 

Jazz outing the Cop was both good and bad. We found the cop to kill but the chain role claim starting from Velocity -> jazz -> lww left us with two many confirmed townies and TW did not give us any safe claims. But it worked out fine later.

[Robert2424]

More like my team wanted secretly to be lynched. I was outvoted each time.

[brewersalliance]

More like my team wanted secretly to be lynched. I was outvoted each time.

 

 

what do u mean?

[Robert2424]

I was against most of the kills and got out voted constantly who to kill. Lol.

[brewersalliance]

Oh damn and you’re the one who got all the shit for the tony kill from lww

Who did you suggest for the kills

[KevinH]

For the record, I especially like Preston's posts. They are more thoughtful and analytical than anybody's.

Things aren't looking good for the home team.

KevinH (6): Brewersalliance, lilweirward, Darkfox, Zacch, Tony Maurice, Jazzy95

There's your list that chose to lynch a townie making a claim that would provide the town with some information for the rest of the game.

 
The Black Order (Imran Ehsan, Robert2424, Lyner, and Preston) has defeated the Avengers.

The most surprising thing to me is that I was lynched by only townies.

[brewersalliance]

For the record, I especially like Preston's posts. They are more thoughtful and analytical than anybody's.

Things aren't looking good for the home team.

KevinH (6): Brewersalliance, lilweirward, Darkfox, Zacch, Tony Maurice, Jazzy95

There's your list that chose to lynch a townie making a claim that would provide the town with some information for the rest of the game.

The Black Order (Imran Ehsan, Robert2424, Lyner, and Preston) has defeated the Avengers.

The most surprising thing to me is that I was lynched by only townies.

Yeah scum did a good job avoiding your wagon. (Which I did say that Kevin’s wagon was all town )