Xx Karl xX

Hey there everybody! I see I have a lot of reading to catch up on so i'll try to read through everything and eventually put my two cents in haha. Hopefully that'll be either tonight or sometime tomorrow

Add me to this one

You can add me as a replacement too

Bah, i hope all you scum have horrible birthdays for killing me >.< Good luck town

CoD and EM, I wasn't saying you guys were scum, just that it would be funny if you were. And what's that supposed to mean? don't be hatin' on my birthday swag...

Well, EM and CoD were both scum in the other mafia game going on, What do you guys think are the chances that they would also be scum in this game?

Vote: EM bandwagoning on CoD right after he votes for you, pretty much the only eye-catching scummy act i've noticed so far, so may as well toss my vote in the hat

well there's a 2/3 chance we still have a townie power role, so hopefully the odds are "ever in our favor" and we still have one

weeellll that sucks. We lose our cop the first night. humph. On the bright side, I think we can say rafay is town since no scum on earth is that stupid to kill the guy that they are the only one voting for

Unvote, the basis of my vote was on Lyner for putting D3mon at L-2, and that point seems moot now. But Kazio's link was pretty interesting, so vote: Xarastier for letting scum have the opportunity to hammer and kill a townie, which is the scummiest act I've seen so far

Whoa guys, no need to put D3mon on L-2 this quickly. Unvote Vote: Lyner for the un-needed bandwagon this early

Vote: Kazio 'nuff said

darn, too slow to sign up for this one... i guess i'll be a replacement then if you need me

ya, nice game kev, it was way good. I'm a little surprised that rafay never counterclaimed d3mon but i suppose thats a good thing, it woulda caused some pretty bad confusion. ya Kaz, i can see how i did act pretty defensively, but i was just tryin to save my own skin lol

vote: noahband

Aright then, lets hope we finally pinned the nail on this scummy coffin. Vote: Imran

I knew this was going to happen after I role claimed, but that's what happens when you're given the role of miller. there's no good time to claim because anyone can say it's just a scum that is covering his tracks. But since i was between a rock and a hard place, claiming now while people are open-minded was way better than d3mon investigating me, finding the false scum result and then leading townies on a lynch mob for me. Take what you want from the claim, but it's 100% real.

Alright, well since there is no solid info to go on, i'll follow our two confirmed townie's votes and vote: Alternate Since no one countered D3mon, I'm pretty sure his role claim is legit and he is our cop. I dunno who he is going to investigate but since he said I am high on his scum list, I don't want to cause any confusion on our next day if he investigates me. I am a miller, so you would find me scum if you investigated and I also have a secondary role that I won't share as it would defeat its use against the scum.

Ya D3mon, i'm also a little curious as to what makes me "very likely scum". Sure i had that huge blow-out with kaz, but i assure you that i am townie.

Do you think the push on d3mon was town-motivated or scum-motivated? well, i don't think it was very townie for people to push so hard for d3mon when he really hadn't said anything scummy or acted suspicious. and I think there were definitely better candidates to lynch that seemed more scummy. Observe the bolded part. Can anyone comment if these look suspicious? They seem to be worded such that Xx Karl xX can conveniently backtrack. For example: 1) I'm not necessarily accusing anyone that i just listed as being scum - he can backtrack to say he didn't really think the players are scummy 2) i don't think it was very townie - he also didn't say it was very scummy explicitly 3) neither of you guys are at the top of my most suspicious list - well if you're at the bottom of his list it fits with his description but he can conveniently put you in his 3rd spot and say "I suspected you earlier you know!" Good that you're now telling everyone you suspect me because I'm suspecting you right now. I'd say scum would list players as town when they seem to be obviously town (or considered by most as town). Ok Kaz, if this is what you meant by saying that you were going to show us all how to really "scum hunt", then I hope you dont think you're gonna win the game this way. or at least not win it for the town. You single out a townie, criticize every last comment they make with bogus arguments that can be said about anyone and then try to confuse all the other townies about it with your scum tactics. you say that you have to "read between the lines and beyond to catch scum", well i can vouch that you are going way beyond the lines here, but are not catching any scum. I hope you realize that over-analyzing simple statements does not make you some genius that can find scum in every little nook and cranny. You are just grasping at straws trying to find something that's just not there. "Good that you're now telling everyone you suspect me because I'm suspecting you right now" Oh i see, so somewhere in Kaz's Mafia Bible it says that if you accuse someone of being scummy with poor logic, then if you are accused of lying, then it proves that your assumptions are totally correct. But sadly, no. I'm accusing you because you are twisting every word I have said with crummy accusations that prove absolutely nothing. "I'd say scum would list players as town when they seem to be obviously town" I'd say there's another idiotic "accusation" from Kaz. Anyone else can list EM and LK as town-which I think there have been a few people-but when someone that Kaz accuses says there town then it turns into a scum tactic. You are just using the dumbest reasoning i have ever heard by saying that if someone agrees with the thinking of the majority then they are wrong for doing it. Thus making people afraid to join the majority and causing even more paranoia. Observe the bolded part. Can anyone comment if these look suspicious? They seem to be worded such that Xx Karl xX can conveniently backtrack. For example: 1) I'm not necessarily accusing anyone that i just listed as being scum - he can backtrack to say he didn't really think the players are scummy 2) i don't think it was very townie - he also didn't say it was very scummy explicitly 3) neither of you guys are at the top of my most suspicious list - well if you're at the bottom of his list it fits with his description but he can conveniently put you in his 3rd spot and say "I suspected you earlier you know!" Holy crap this paragraph is so dumb i can't even believe it. 1) I critiqued like 5 different people and things i saw that were scummy looking. that doesn't mean i think all of them on that list are scum, or even any of them, just that they did scummy things that caught my attention. 2) It doesn't need to be explicitly stated! If there's only two choices and I say it's not the first choice, then it has to be the second choice! It's not that complicated...I thought that you surely could have figured that one out... 3) You asked me who i thought was more suspicious. I said neither were very suspicious to me at that point. you then critique me for saying i didn't think either of you were very suspicious. seems like a very baited question to me that had no "winnable" answer. And here, i'll state this explicitly: That is a scum tactic. I did exactly you say? I explicitly stated who I think are townies (3), and scummy (3), the 5 null players in my list are unreadable at the time of my post because of their lack of content yet. It doesn't matter if you explicitly stated who you think is what. It still fulfills the same criteria of what you call me scummy for. You neither "reduce the scum pool or clear someone as townie" So unless i'm mistaken, that makes you seem scummy, since I'm apparently scummy for doing that. Oh wait, you're Kaz and know everything, so of course nothing you do can seem scummy. I'm sure there's so many more things that I could point out that you also do Kaz. So stop trying to call me scum based off of crap accusations that are only going to cause confusion in everyone else. I've come to the conclusion that you are either scum or a completely misguided townie. So misguided that you think you are some super-sleuth that can detect the slightest signs of scum. But in reality you know nothing and need to stop. Based off that, either of those two things are bad for the town and you need to go. Vote: Kaz Now i know that you are going to post after this trying to refute what I say with some more crap, and that me voting for you just completely proves how I am scum and that you are the greatest townie to ever live. But just don't. I'm tired of making these huge posts to show how you know nothing.

1. Reads to me that he still wants to instill doubt to those who think the two are scum. 2. Although I don't like to give associate tells before any flips, this looks to me that Karl is defending/buddying d3mon when it's unnecessary. D3mon was never in danger of getting lynched (in my opinion) 3,5. Scum doesn't like to reduce the scum pool or clear someone. It gives them a lot of convenient choices. 4. Thinks Rafay could be the convenient lynch target for the day because of his play-style (everyone knows that Rafay is always defensive regardless of his alignment). What's interesting here is that he picked Rafay over Xarastier even though objectively speaking, Xarastier's posts were more crazy. He was just a little suspicious with Xarastier even though he posted reasons not to believe in Xarastier's claim. My guess is that a Xarastier lynch will not get much support than a Rafay lynch. 6. Reads as being non-commitant... He's not saying they're scum but he says we should look after them. Vote: Xx Karl xX @Karl: Do tell us your reads. Who's likely scum, who's likely town, and who's still a null read. First, lets deal with those six points: 1. Sorry, i wasn't instilling doubt in anyone, i was just posting the extremely obvious at that point in the game. EM only role claimed because LK was about to be lynched. it was either the truth, or scum trying to save their skin. I was just saying that i chose to believe that they were telling the truth. 2. i was defending d3mon because I thought he hadn't done anything scummy at that point and seemed pretty townie, and I didn't think it was smart for there to be 3 people voting for him. Also, what do you mean he was in no danger of being lynched? everyone in the game wanted a day 1 lynch and d3mon was one of the few guys being targeted for that lynch. Seemed like he was in danger to me... 3 and 5. your point on these just completely contradicts what you say in your entire null section on your list. you neither, "reduce the scum pool or clear someone," and, "gives [you] a lot of convenient choices." so please don't call me scummy when you did the exact same thing. 4. Wow, you need to stop being so literal. i do in fact think Xara is being very scummy, I was even the first person to point out that he had been very quiet ever since he had been accused of being scummy. 6. reads as you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I'm pretty sure i never said "I dont have any clue who could be scum, please go find them for me guys, herp derp." I listed rafay and xara as scummy, and also hinted at you kaz, as not being this all-mighty townie that knows everything. So you're wrong, I did say that I thought there were scum. I'll have a looksy over everything again and post a list on my reads of everyone later, but here's who i have right now SUSPICIOUS: Rafay - reasons in my last list, and now he feels like he shouldnt have to explain himself when people ask. Xara - reasons in my last list Kaz - that arbitrary judging of my list using "facts" that could easily be said about any scum list any person makes... TOWN: LK and EM: They linked each other together from day 1. I don't think scum would risk putting most of their eggs in one basket from the get-go, so they gotta be townies.

Do you think the push on d3mon was town-motivated or scum-motivated? well, i don't think it was very townie for people to push so hard for d3mon when he really hadn't said anything scummy or acted suspicious. and I think there were definitely better candidates to lynch that seemed more scummy. Specifically who do you think were suspicious? Only Electric Mango and me voted d3mon and Lorikz Kain for a short while Well between the two of you, EM's push was definitely more suspicious. your vote was just in the beginning when no one knew anything, and EM decided to bandwagon on that and push hard on it for some reason. not to mention that EM added to the scummy-ness by making that list without an explanation. But at this point, i'm choosing to believe that him and LK are what they say they are. so really at this point, neither of you guys are at the top of my most suspicious list.

Do you think the push on d3mon was town-motivated or scum-motivated? well, i don't think it was very townie for people to push so hard for d3mon when he really hadn't said anything scummy or acted suspicious. and I think there were definitely better candidates to lynch that seemed more scummy.

Ok, after looking through everything, here's some of my thoughts: I think it's hard to tell at this point if EM and LK are telling the truth. So for now i'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume what they're saying is true. I don't understand why you guys are pushing for D3mon. From what i gather, this whole push towards him started with kaz saying that him voting no-lynch was a bad idea, and that's it. he really hasn't done anything that scummy. Also, i don't know why everyone is clearing Xarastier as a for sure townie. one of his first posts is a role-claim with some story i can't even make sense of...it may be him adding RP, but it's confusing and really doesn't add anything... Also, haven't you guys noticed that as soon as he got cleared as town we haven't heard a thing from him? Little suspicious right there. Then there's Rafay. I know his style of play is a little wacky, but this game... just come on, he really is being crazy in what he posts. Example: for some reason, he thinks that Electric and Kaz are out to get him and are pushing for a lynch on him when i don't think anyone has voted for him the entire game except for Kaz's first random vote. So maybe Rafay is playing some weird strategy or really does not understand what it happening around him. Either of those two choices are very counter-productive to the town and really just confuses everyone that reads his posts. Also, most of you guys are clearing kaz of being scum just because he is talking a lot and leading the conversation. Sure that can be a townie actually scum hunting, or a scum trying to gain rep as town early when it's easier so he can take control later in the game and influence the next lynch easier. I'm not necessarily accusing anyone that i just listed as being scum, i'm just saying possible guys we may need to look out for. However, i will vote to lynch the person i think to be the most harmful to the town at this point, and with the reasons stated above: vote: Rafay

hmm...ya, a retaliatory vote without any reasoning other than "you voted for me, I vote for you" is very scummy indeed. vote: noahband