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By that logic Trump should have full control of the FBI during almost the entirety of the investigation and would be responsible for it. Joking but in a black humor sort of way, ICE is acting illegally with the support of the President and the current admin. There are a dozen examples of American born citizens who never left the country that are in ICE detention facilities despite family providing birth certificates and other identification proving citizenship, and spoiler alert they are not white. I can see your logic here since you believe this is all a frame job, while I agree that Cohen cant be trusted in any regard there is a lot of other people and evidence that there has been tremendous wrong doing by the Trump campaign, Manafort being another example. Selective service I can see but any of those really matter? Also the birth certificate was checked by both the Democrats and Republicans and deemed authentic, I believe only Trump continued saying it wasn't real. Unless he makes a huge turn around and starts delivering on his promises and stops repealing everything that Obama had a hand in just because he doesn't like him, no. Seriously fuck that guy. A racist statement usually gets you called a racist. Even if it was a political ploy, which it probably was, his tactics from day one was keep causing outrage so he can run from it. Look at the Iran stuff lately, it isn't in the news because he made a blatant racist remark. Same with the detainment centers on the border. Ahh I have a feeling that is the real reason why you support our bumbling asshole of a president. Republicans had full control until recently, and they still control the Senate. Saying his hands are tied is like me saying I cant make toast despite having a toaster, electricity and bread. Now they are just missing the electricity but could totally get stuff passed through compromise which the GOP is less likely to do, mainly because they control the senate I don't like mayonnaise either, its just way too heavy. Pepsi same boat, but too sugary. They need to have a prevention in the bill if that is the case, I haven't read it in detail but from what I have seen it only goes to the first responders and is a continuation, so if that is the case we would have already seen it. Obama did it but Trump made it Yuuuugggeee. If you look at the numbers its a tremendous difference and the care to the prisoners is less despite the costs going up. There needs to be some fiscal responsibility and the people we detain need to be treated better. I don't know about you but even with my little experience in the field I bet I could detain those people at half the cost and still provide humane conditions. Honestly the whole thing disgusts me and I worry that it sets a negative precedent that sends us down a slippery slope. I don't want to see America commit another genocide or copy Germany and the Holocaust. Dude, I love that we can watch the same thing and have different opinions on it. I thought the GOP was a bit of a joke acting like defense lawyers instead of doing their jobs again, and the Democrats were basically just saying "HEY THIS WAS IN THE REPORT, RIGHT? and Mueller is like "Yes it is." For anyone who read the report nothing in here is new, and that is really disappointing considering we know the Democrats wont do anything with this information because they didn't do anything last time and the GOP wont do anything because they like having Trump in office and Russian aid. What I want to know is the Democrat game plan is.

What things? The major complaint people had was the birth certificate which he released. Obama was neither the head of the Cia or the FBI, also if you want to make comparisons between Soviet Russia and Obama I would like to remind you Trump tried state ran media and he has his own secret police in the form of ICE. They wouldn't be billionaires if they did haha, but the thing is I expect more from our President than promising to release them and then not. We all know whats on their and it is only bad for him to release it. The people underneath him did wrong doings on the campaign. If someone I am paying does illegal stuff for my business then I am liable, that's just how it works. That isn't bias though, he does in fact lie every day. I can pull up many examples and they aren't even silly politician half lies. He literally says the opposite of something happened right after he said it happened this way. No, they are all friends and I would be pretty happy to see all those sexual predators in jail. I believe you missed the impact of saying "go back to your home country" has on someone of a different race solely because you aren't racist. I have a friend who's family came from Armenia and he was told to go back to his home country growing up because of his name and curly hair. The only way the statement could have been more racist is if they added in a derogatory word. As for Omar she has been in the USA for 24 years which is 2/3s of her life. Her birth country is nothing like it was when she was there and by every definition this is her own country, unless the American dream is all a lie. As for "The Squad" (what a stupid name) the rest were born here and Trump told them to return to their own countries, what a disgrace. I might add during Obama's Admin Trump did nothing but say the America sucked and that he hated it, yet he himself never left. What has he accomplished. Here's a list of promises he made that I found, wanna see how many he accomplished? Has he proven capable though? Can you list the good things he has done that weren't temporary? Every time I see something that I think good job with ends up failing. I hate mayonnaise on a burger. Feels like something a filthy Communist would use. But seriously Sean Hannity spent like a week complaining about Obama using Dijon mustard on a burger. The money wasn't just for anyone who dies in New York but first responders that have health complications due to the 9/11 attacks. We can spend millions caging kids in cages but we can't take care of firefighters who are dying from a literal attack on America, cool priorities.

So you are saying that it is more likely that the FBI and CIA got together to frame a known dirty businessman than it is that maybe just maybe Trump has broken the law and so have all his friends. Trump is super smart but doesn't want us to see his school records Trump has great financials but doesn't want us to see his tax returns Trump didn't collude or do any wrong doing in his election campaign but doesn't want anyone to see the full Mueller report Trump isn't friends with Epstein but invites him to parties and hangs out with him on his free time Trump isn't racist but tells members of congress who are part of minorities to go back to their home country (all of which are Americans lol). Trump is honest yet lies to us every single day Trump has nothing to hide but pays a lot in hush money Trump is a great businessman but has yet to make a agree of consequence in office. So my question is, do you honestly think Trump is fit for office or do you just not want a Democrat in office? On a side note it looks like the economy is going into the crapper. The GOP has been supporting coal and doing tariffs but neither are working as coal is quickly dying out and China is impacted by the tariff less than we are, and as we have discussed before the US deficit is growing and reaching an all time high. Prosecution of Child-Sex Traffickers has plummeted. Toss in all the corruption in Puerto Rico and rioting. Oh and Rand Paul blocked the 9/11 Victim Funding. I miss the days when the biggest worry was what type of mustard Obama put on his burger.

Lets say for a moment that the Obama people did go all out and investigate the Trump campaign, since there was a lot of wrongdoing discovered aren't they justified? In my book you commit a crime you should expect to be punished. With that said there is no evidence that the Democrats did anything illegal, the only things I have see are accusations against them. To be clear I do not condone illegal investigations, I am merely stating that if they weren't dirty and it was a clean campaign there would be no charges.

Surrendering to oligarchs would be ignoring that we are making a negative impact upon the planet and should fix our ways in a manner that both allows us to have our cake and not burn it too. There is a ton of obstruction, I would be shocked if you didn't see it. Trump has not been subtle with interfering with the investigation. Hell the investigation was needed because even Trump admitted that the Russians helped get him elected. The fact of the matter is that a foreign power messed with our elections and not only got away with it but the ruling party has decided it was okay and wont do anything to prevent further meddling.

Natural co2 emissions are unavoidable and we shouldn't be adding to it at the rate we are. With our current level of technology we cannot combat the changes and within reason should avoid anything that causes further damage. Also I am more worried about not doing something we should do because fear of a "socialist agenda". Well Mueller did find plenty of obstruction which is a crime, what he couldn't find was evidence that Trump didn't collude with the Russians. As it stands we know that Russia did help get Trump elected, we know that Trump has been a constantly crying snowflake about the whole investigation and that people involved in his campaign including his son have had interactions with the Russians. As for Mueller's statement it is my opinion that the statement is in line because it is what the report said, his job was to find out if the Russians interfered with the election and if Trump was colluding. Mueller couldn't disprove collusion so he had to say that, especially when people like that Barr decided to lie about the report and say it proved no collusion when it reality it said no such thing. Haha yeah I can agree with that.

From what was said on the Mueller report the only reason that they did not press charges was because Trump is president and he believes that criminal proceedings cannot be done on a sitting president. Honestly the Democrats don't have any guts in my opinion. I would have gone after Trump by now. However as you know I have no love for most our current elected officials so perhaps I am just too eager to clean house (partial pun). I really hope you aren't calling me a Democrat again because we disagree on something. If so I reiterate that I am not a Democrat, never have been and only have voted for 5 total in my 12 years of voting, where as I have voted for 50+ Republicans. Right now Fossil fuel companies are paying literally anyone they can buy to deny climate change because it would kill them, just like they stoked fears with nuclear energy which is the safest, cleanest and cheapest energy. Also the Green Bill does not say not to drive, it does not say to not eat burgers its mainly keeping companies accountable for the carbon footprint they are causing, because honestly even if every American stopped eating beef it wouldnt matter much.

Mueller recommended impeachment, at this point its just getting the ducks in a row. So your theory is that climate change isn't real because someone is essentially bribing/blackmailing almost every expert in the world, and has been for over 20 years?

Most of all scientists agree that climate change is real and you can literally see the impact we have had in 20 years. Also like I said the green deal the bill that is being discussed is super tame. The case isn't closed because the house is still investigating, therefore defying subpoenas is a direct violation of the constitution regardless of your opinion. The wording in our laws leave no loop holes, these folks are in violation. That is a welcome surprise.

Well in that case I counter argue that the GOP has just as little respect for the constitution as the Democrats if not less. Lindsey Graham and several others have told people to not appear for subpoenas and to essentially ignore the house, because checks and balances aren't a thing apparently. The Green New deal saves lives, makes jobs and is in our best benefit. I cant find anywhere in the constitution that protects the rights of companies to seek profit despite it actively ruining the future of the American people. I am all for rights but I don't want anyone to have the right to leave a ticking time bomb on my front lawn.

We were discussing AOC though, where is she hating on the constitution? In what way?

Any proof? Because I see plenty of people ignoring the constitution but she isn't one of them. Beating someone else in an election isn't a crime, and as long as the GOP control everything anything a Democrat tries to pass cannot be. The green bill has been completely misrepresented by many news outlets, Fox news especially. If you take the time to read it, quite a bit is just common sense.

Yeah not being owned by big business is pretty Anti-American. It's their hatred of the Constitution, propping up Illegal Immigrants over the safety of our tax paying citizens, and despising anyone who isn't a hardline Democrat that defines both of them as Anti American. I don't use the term Anti American likely, it's the most shameful insult you can receive as a US Citizen. Do they hate the constitution though? As far as I can tell AoC is just new and vocal, generally speaking she is at worst a necessary evil since there are so many career politicians that need a kick in the butt. Shoot a lot of the policies that are being asked for are just versions of stuff we should already have.

Yeah not being owned by big business is pretty Anti-American.

I am always up for infrastructure. Our bridges especially need to be redone.

I prefer Eastwood.

I remind you that there is no need to try and discredit William Barr he did it himself on video. Also I am curious about those texts, I look forward to seeing what comes from an investigation. The very fact we have an electoral college proves that we are not a normal Republic but a Democratic Republic like I said and linked to said wiki page which uses the USA as the first example. Technically we are something a bit different but anyway considering how unique the US is we could be arguing about this for weeks and still not be at the exactly truth of the matter so as is the closest definition we can find is its both. Also I never said a Republic, Democracy or any combination is unfair. The Electoral college is poorly designed and should be either fixed or removed, and since it would just be easier to remove and tack on run off voting I don't see why we don't just do that. quote name='Lysistrata' timestamp='1557184525' post='975357'] I guess I should remind you that the majority of American voters voted against Bill Clinton as well... with 43% of the vote he captured enough Electoral Votes to become President... you didn't hear us complaining about the outcome. Not once did I ever hear George H.W. Bush say that William Jefferson Clinton stole the election from him. Democrats have turned into the Snowflake Party. Clinton was before my time as a voter so I really never looked into him. Though considering what he did in office he is a criminal and as you know I do not like presidents without moral fiber. If we voted for the biggest and badass I am super confused why we picked a lying coward who cant even stand up to anyone. He can throw shade from a safe distance but that isn't badass at all. I wonder how our economy will be doing during the election. Especially since the debt has been climbing and less companies are paying taxes. Thank you for your input on the other candidates, I feel like with what you said and my feelings on each beforehand that only Bernie Sanders will have a chance. This next election will hopefully be pretty exciting.[

By definition we are a Democratic Republic which I backed up with actual evidence, you can spin it as much as you want the fact remains. There is no evidence of "frame the Trump campaign for treason", literally none. I have looked for evidence of that claim and cant find any, perhaps you can link some? There is evidence that there was wrong doing and the people going to jail and in jail now supports that. So how am I spinning anything when I am literally pointing out what is? Also I remind you the majority of American voters voted against Trump. Honestly it appears to me that you are the one trying to spin things, and I am saddened that you don't care about the honesty and integrity of elected officials. On a side note I am curious on who you feel is the Democrat that will give Trump the most trouble next election.

We are both a Republic and a Democracy. Democratic republic. Dude you don't believe that Trump and Barr are liars despite video evidence and I am the one who is looking stupid? Seriously you aren't stupid but you are doing a damn good job pretending to be.

I hope you have your tin foil hat on at all times. Lets say it was led by Trump haters, that doesn't mean that it wasn't justified. When more people vote for one candidate and the other one wins that means the system is broken. Yep I am whining that apparently people like you think that a system that was seen as flawed even back when it was made is still here with no improvements. When you can win the election by having less than 10% of the population voting for you and literally the other 90% voting against you then that is not Democracy. I feel like I am watching Fox news. Are you just trolling me at this point?

That literally has nothing to do with what I said. The investigation was lead by Republicans. Mueller, Rod Rosenstein and James Comey all being republicans. For an added note more people voted for Hillary than him but since our voting system is broken he won. Though with a good voting system we wouldn't have had her get that far either, funny how Trump complained about the system, wins because of it and does nothing to fix it. You are right, firing one of the investigators and ordering people to interfere is totally reasonable. You don't have an actual counter argument so you decide to run wild with my example of how a president should act with dignitiy but if you are okay with a liar representing you I guess that just says the standards you have. Barr lies about the report that is fact, he also delayed the report and then did a press conference that barely actually addresses the report and he lies again there. You can say the sun is made out of icecream and that the news channels are all fake save for whoever the hell you get yours from but the report is out we can see everything that was said there, and your ignorance at this point is sad. You are right all those "witch hunts" and other related tweets weren't whining at all. Totally stable and we can ignore all the evidence you don't like. Haha dude when I pointed out that Trump lies constantly you argued against me and then ignored proof. A leader lying to his people is the most basic type of corruption you can get. Barr ignored his job and lied. Mitch McConnell constantly veto things just to spite the Democrats ignoring his duty. You are right I hate Trump, I hate what the Republican party has become since he has been involved and I hate that people ignore blatant misbehavior because their dislike of the opposite party. If this is a fucking team game then I pick America and I really wish some people would take their heads out of their asses and do the same. On the off chance you are actually willing to look into the Mueller report here is a couple legal breakdowns. Legal eagle part 1 and 2 Bonus Last week tonight for fun

There have been numerous fictitious things about the entire "investigation". The whole Trump-Russia thing was created to destroy Trump. Everyone knew it was BS from the beginning. They kept it going for as long as they could so they could gather up everything Trump does to defend himself, and declare that he obstructed justice and have cause for impeachment. There was never a crime, therefore no foundation for obstruction. The entire Obama Administration should lawyer up now... it's coming for them. Do you have any proof of that claim? Everyone involved in the report are Republican, and Trump was obstructing from day one or at least attempting to. Trump had no dignity about it when the whole goal was to prove or disprove the collusion. Instead we get Barr who is proven to be a liar claim no collusion (the report couldnt prove or disprove) and all the GOP crying and starting their own investigations to distract from the fact that Trump broke the law and attempted to break it. But hey you have proven you dont give a shit how corrupt anyone from the current admin is or acts so this will just fall on deaf ears.

I think this alone ends our conversation. I will also keep it in mind next time you complain about a democrat.

GOP has been terrible at getting bills passed, running the country and just not doing shady shit like locking kids in cages. 9 Indictments from the Mueller probe all linked to Trump, five of which have been convicted. Then Trump constantly lying, GoP backing up his lies and oh yeah doing shit like telling our Customs and Border Protection Commissioner he would pardon him if he illegally blocks asylum seekers from entering the US. Election fraud in North Carolina. The tax cut that was advertised to help poor Americans Trump hiding his tax returns when he bitched and moaned about Obama's birth certificate. Jared and Ivanka getting security clearances when they shouldnt have, hell why do they even have a job in the white house while they are running companies? Why is Trump allowed to keep running his company in office? Trump hotels exempted from ban on foreign payments? Is that enough, would you have let the Democrats get away with that stuff?

He said the opposite before hand so yes admitted, as in he is hiding shit. Smoke and mirrors. The GOP has been terrible at it. "WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT ELECTION TAMPERING" then when a Republican gets caught doing it I don't see them saying shit about it. The party is full of degenerates, liars and racists yet you seem to be okay with overlooking that because "OH NO OBAMA BAD, LOCK OF HILLARY" while ignoring all the wrong doings that the current administration is doing.