21 replies to this topic

[Teufel Hunden]

So I haven't been very active lately due to the RL monster and one of the things taking up my time is the fact that I recently got fired for a post I made on facebook. I have been looking into the legality of this and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. The following is the whole conversation for context. (Gus is the General Manager of my store who fired me)

 

 

OLD Manager: This doesn't surprise me. Working 13 years in the shipping/receiving dept. I seen plenty of unsafe stacking of pallets and many near misses. Lack of training and over stuffing the stores with merchandise is the problem. Sad to see someone get fatally hurt.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/09/06/wife-sues-menards-for-100000000-after-husband-crushed-to-death-by-falling-pallet/

 

CO-Worker: Working where we do (or did) you have to wonder how the Team Members are feeling about the situation. Could you imagine if it was one of your guys that put the pallet up? I feel awful for this man, his wife and his family, I really do. But what about the guy that has probably put up hundreds of pallets that has to deal with this the rest of his life. It's horrible on both ends and I'm not surprised by the lawsuit, I am surprised about some of the charges. You know this will definitely bring a change to over stock, receiving, and training. And that specific store and it's TMs will also suffer.

 

Other Employee: An outside warehouse for all the stupid shit they carry not accessible to guest traffic is needed. Or better yet leave this stuff at the DC and utilize just on time delivery. Training is bad i can remember being told to give a forklift license to newbies the day their hired, i never believed in this idea. Unfortunately this person is dreaming for that amount of money they will at best close the single store and or settle out of court.

 Old Manager: I agree with both of you. I don't know how many times I put up a pallet and was unsure if it was safe or not. There should be a separate warehouse for overstock. Kind of like the new Moline store has. Also more forklift training. They wanted us to license a kid the first day. Dumb. You can't show someone everything in one day.

 Other Employee: I know of a couple of times i came close to a serious accident because of shotty re used pallet racking as well. Again this is why they forced managers to sign training documents that could never be done with the proper time allowed. Only to cover their ass.

 Other Employee: Ok last rant about this. For goodness sake use a third shift. That way guests are not in this situation and the people who are good at their job and are passionate to help people do just that while product is always stocked right the first time.

 Current Asst. Manager of a Department: Amen to all your comments! Hopefully this becomes an eye opener for go to rebook some of the stores flaws.

 Me: What are you all talking about gus knows best and he says rush the training and just get shit done as fast as possible with half the staff we should actually have.

 

 

 

[ccabal86]

Gus being the big boss I guess?

The first thing that comes across is that everyone was being constructive to some degree, while you came across as quite passive-aggressive.

That said: Facebook sucks, don't post on it.

[ihateaaron]

It depends a lot on your state laws.

 

If you have no disciplinary record with the company you can fight it, and probably win.  If there is documentation for just about any issue than it will be an uphill battle.

 

Regardless of the laws, I avoid Facebook and work mixing as much as possible.

[Finster Baby]

The way I see it, you don't have much of a case to stand on. They can fire you for pretty much anything they want, especially if you're an at-will employee.

You did name a name and weren't very constructive about it.

Lesson learned: Don't let your co-workers on your facebook. That's my mantra.

[Teufel Hunden]

I find the whole thing utterly ridiculous. It's on my own time on my own computer and my opinion which I gained through experience and what others have said. Granted I probably shouldn't have used a name and just left it for everyone to assume who i was talking about.. I don't think it warrants termination or any disciplinary action since it was done outside of work. Just because you work for a company doesn't mean they have the right to tell you what you can and can't do in your personal time and what you can and can't think. 

[d3mon]

A lot depends on the Social Media and Internet Usage policy of your company.

 

Anyhow, were you given this as the reason for firing you? If that is the case then you might want to reach out to NLRB ( www.nlrb.gov ), as discussing about workplace is considered part of protected speech under NLRA.

 

Just my personal opinion but Facebook is not the place to discuss workplace or politics. All employers look at your facebook profile during background checks and while there are laws that are supposed to protect you from discrimination, they don't help when you are looking for a new job.

[Yehom]

First of all I want to say that i don't have any experience with the labor laws of the US, therefore I can only give you an insight on how it is done in the EU. There are European laws stating that there should always be a very legitimate reason for you to be fired unilaterally. If you say that this is no way a legitimate reason, i.e. this is the only thing that you've ever said to have you getting fired, then I suggest you get legal assistance asap and go to court, because they firing you has absolutely no legal leg to stand on. But again this is the case with the law applicable here. I can understand that the labor laws in the US or even in your particular state can differ from this, especially the more liberal states, as our labor laws are far more socialistic in that sense. 

[onbekende]

Ignoring the legality, $100m? seriously?

 

America

[Robert2424]

I'd look into it legally. Considering its your facebook, not the company facebook. But yeah, I don't speak much about my job on my facebook or much of anything on facebook. Not that I think I have nosey co-workers. I just don't post on facebook much at all. Most likely though one of your co-workers showed your GM. Your GM can't put the company before his own feelings, and therefore fired you for what you posted on facebook. though it seems like you chimmed in at the end of it, and didn't seem that bad. That is what you were told. So I can understand that unless there was something else this is a weird situation. 

[FS108]

 People these days have no since of the human work ethic and fire over stupid shit they see on the net

[Lysistrata]

First of all... it's Facebook. The most you should do on Facebook concerning this, is post condolences to the family for their loss.

The company is obviously under a ton of pressure due to the death of a worker and a monster wrongful death lawsuit.

They won't play around with any opinion of an employee on a social media website the size and scope of Facebook.

You may as well have been chatting it up on the evening news.

 

My opinion is Facebook is evil... I won't have anything to do with it... too bad I can't convince my wife of that.

I know the reputation of Geoffrey Fieger, and his staff already has everything that was said there. He is relentless, and very smart.

In December 2012, Michigan became the 24th Right to Work state. That means you can work wherever you wish.

At the same time it means they can fire you for no reason... they can fire you because they don't want you working there anymore.

 

You can get something from your Labor Board if they determine an unfair termination, but you'll never get your job back.

Best to move on, get a new job, and don't post on Facebook anything you don't want the whole world to read.

Hopefully you're young enough to work somewhere where people don't die, and they appreciate your talents. Good Luck.

[Rhizoctonia]

Personally speaking, I'd never post anything negative about a job I'm currently working at out on any social media outlet.  I've just found, that when you do that, it's bound to get back to the person or company and it's not gonna be good, be it in your case, termination, or the bosses would just make your life a living hell to make you want to quit.  Unless I didn't care about that job, or care if I lost it, I'd never do it...because word of mouth or media can carry fast.

 

That being said, I'm not positive on the laws where you live.  I fully understand this is your opinion, and you weren't doing it at work, but nonetheless I could see plenty of people getting fired over something like this.  If someone cooks food at a restaurant, and they go home and say "I don't know why people would come to such and such restaurant to eat, I make the food and I wouldn't eat it," well more then likely the company would look to see you removed for possibly causing a bad reputation.  I don't know if insubordination is a reason for firing, but that could be something they could list as your reason for firing.  That being said, I know in my state, you can be fired for anything.  There is nothing preventing someone from firing someone for no reason...but I know that's not every state.  

 

If you feel you were wrongly fired, I would certainly look at the federal and state labor laws to see if you have a case and go from there.  Also if you believe your company is making people work in an unsafe manner or one that doesn't follow proper laws/regulations or OSHA standards, then you could always contact OSHA or the proper channels about this explaining you got fired over expressing such on social media, and could end up making your old company go through a lot of hell if OSHA comes in and starts investigating.  

[Shahenshah]

There can be other loopholes that they could stand behind, do see your employement contract carefully, see if there is any vulneberity there.

 

In either case, even if you go back to your job and Gus has backing, many people are going to make it a hell for you.

[Icewolf]

I find the whole thing utterly ridiculous. It's on my own time on my own computer and my opinion which I gained through experience and what others have said. Granted I probably shouldn't have used a name and just left it for everyone to assume who i was talking about.. I don't think it warrants termination or any disciplinary action since it was done outside of work. Just because you work for a company doesn't mean they have the right to tell you what you can and can't do in your personal time and what you can and can't think. 

Own time or not, it is still a very risky action. 

 

Imagine you are down the pub with your work mates, and you start bitching about the boss in a very loud voice. Would you expect there to be no consequences? Facebook is essentially the same situation as that. This is why I never bitch about my job in writing. 

 

I don't know the law were you work but for the UK it is possible for a company to sack you for this-essentially you can have an obligation to maintain the image of the company. However there would be a requirement that this had been made known to you. You would also be protected in the UK if you had in the past made a complaint regarding health and safety for the same issue (because then the sacking looks like protecting unsafe behaviour). 

 

But if you have not previously taken action against unsafe practices (reporting them etc) then your case would be fairly weak. 

[Teufel Hunden]

I hated the job and I'm actually kinda glad I got fired. I just wanted to see the different opinions on the matter. I still find it upsetting that it seem that companies own you once you start to work for them. It's borderline tyranny since you have to live in fear of expressing your opinion of things and people. I also agree with the facebook being evil part and I hardly ever post and if I do it's normally a song that I like. There were a lot more things that lead up to that post and I personally don't think it was that bad. It could have been a lot worse. I do however think I will contact OSHA because there are unsafe things going on in that store.

[Shahenshah]

Would vary from org to org, even dept to dept, depending on whatever culture you got going and how lucky/unlucky you are with the type of boss you got.

[The Warrior]

This is actually a very interesting topic and one that I literally just got out of a conference about. I don't know if Menards has a clearly defined social media policy or not since I have never been employed there but I can tell you Dustin that if they do NOT have a clearly defined policy, it is unlawful for you to have been terminated over this Facebook post. You have freedom of speech protected by the NLRB in this instance I believe. It might be worthwhile to contact the NLRB and get their opinion.

Having said that, I wouldn't openly criticize a company or person that I worked for on Facebook.

[Icewolf]

I hated the job and I'm actually kinda glad I got fired. I just wanted to see the different opinions on the matter. I still find it upsetting that it seem that companies own you once you start to work for them. It's borderline tyranny since you have to live in fear of expressing your opinion of things and people. I also agree with the facebook being evil part and I hardly ever post and if I do it's normally a song that I like. There were a lot more things that lead up to that post and I personally don't think it was that bad. It could have been a lot worse. I do however think I will contact OSHA because there are unsafe things going on in that store.

If you hated the job then the reason they fired you is probably more to do with the fact they knew you didn't want to work there and the official reason is more of an excuse. Typically managers will work on the basis that employing someone who does not want to work for you is doing neither side a favor. 

 

I would also tend to not protest too much about it. Your manager can probably cover themselves well enough and even if you were to win a case, "I openly bitched about my boss and company on facebook, got fired for it and then sued the company" will probably hurt your employment prospects more than any settlement you would get. It will spell "trouble" out above your head far more than just getting on with life. 

 

I get the living in fear of expressing yourself and how that must be very frustrating. I go through the same thing because if I criticise my organisation I run into the problem that I am making political statements from the position of being a government employee. Whilst my job is sufficiently low grade that I am not barred from political activity it would certainly hurt my advancement. But the bottom line is that employers do not exist for the benefit of their employees. The "system" is good at protecting itself and that is one of the ways it does. 

[Cadana]

(...)

That said: Facebook sucks, don't post on it.

 

Yep. Facebook is the Satan of privacy... don't put anything on it that might be "used" against you. Just stick with happy stuff if you have to post (personally, I only have an account so I can manage a few pages for websites I am involved with.

[Greatest Mothers]

In our family we are four: none have facebook. My younger son use tweeter, sometimes, but I'm not aware about how it works. I avoid social networks, because are evil for privacy, and also it seems to me a waste of time: there's e-mail, there's the phone, it's more than enough for me. I don't care of pure virtual friendship: I want (and I have) few real and trusted friends in real world.

About the frustration about not be able to express yourself: I know very well what is. My woman, due her job, cannot make political statements at all! I mean: she cannot even say "I have intention to vote that party". I'm theorically much more free, since I'm an university professor, but, however, sometimes I must be quite careful with other professors, because they are almost all very opinionated politically speaking, when instead I'm a very independent free-thinker. Oh, I want to make it clear: in fact their opinion cannot really hurt my work, but I prefer to work in a more relaxed environment.

Spider.