Two NYPD officers were apparently killed 'execution' style as a result of this whole failure to indict the two officers who killed two unarmed civilians.

 

http://nypost.com/2014/12/20/2-nypd-cops-shot-execution-style-in-brooklyn/

 

Also note this wasn't a specific race issue as the officers killed today were both of colour, its more a war on these 'thugs' with badges who are meant to be protecting the law.

 

This is a picture from the gunmans instagram prior to killing the cops:

 

 

I don't condone the killing, but this whole incident just reinforces my issue with America and its gun policies

Guns don't kill people.

People kill people.

--

So i guess you still could say unchanged.

A couple cops get killed like that every couple of years in America, whether due to narcos or crazy people. If we can't even keep drugs out of America, banning guns won't keep them out either. Given American culture, you'll just have a replay of the Prohibition era, with gangsters making tons of money selling guns to normally law-abiding people. At least half the people I know would keep or buy illegal guns if they had no other choice. Yeah, gun culture is just that ingrained here. I remember the Economist posting a chart showing that there were at least 3 guns for every person in the U.S. That is not going to go away.

 

If anything, the U.S. murder rate is declining despite being awash in guns. I credit video games for that (people spend less time getting drunk, high, or in social situations where they'll get angry), and believe the best thing you could do for crime is distribute game systems to poor families. Religion is a decent opiate for the masses, but games work better.

I remember heating a story last year told by a New York State Sheriff regarding one of his Deputies. The Sheriff Deputy was responding to an incident regarding an armed man somewhere around his residence. Upon arrival the Sheriff exited the vehicle and immediately took at least 1 rifle round. I believe he was shot a second time. The suspect was apprehended shortly after. During recovery the wounded Deputy was visited by his boss, the Sheriff, in the hospital. After talking with him for some time, the Sheriff asked the how the deputy views firearms now. He asked if he thought these 'assault rifles' should be banned. The deputy replied that his viewpoints on firearms have not changed even after being shot. The deputy still believes that it is a man or woman's right to keep and bear arms for defense. No one should be allowed to take away an individuals right to protect them self.

 

Only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Taking away the good guys gun will still allow the bad guy to keep his gun.

 

As someone who is law abiding even I can attest to how ridiculously easy it I to acquire an illegal firearm. Whether it be making one yourself, which building a single shot device using a .22 or small pistol cartridge is incredibly easy. Or designing a fully automatic recoil operated firearm also isn't too difficult. Then there are also numerous websites that exist in the dark web that offer firearms, drugs, and other illegal services. And there's always the find the guys who can sell you drugs, as one of them will likely know how to acquire a firearm. Illegally importing a firearm into a country also isn't that difficult if you know what your doing. Any country with land access to another country can do this with some ease.

 

This is all coming from someone who observed what other people have been doing. And in some course, in the event of acquaints I've known over the years. All of this people were inexperienced and still managed some degree of success. So I can safely say an expert on illegal activities would be able to achieve better results.

 

How do I know all this stuff without actually doing anything illegal? I graduated college with a criminal justice degree and partook in various criminal justice/political science clubs. Not only did I do lots of textbook reading, but I went beyond the course material to see what 'other world' really does exist out there. It truly is amazing to hear the things people are willing to share. People traditionally love to talk and subsequently spill secrets. Whether in accident or due to boasting. But I suppose this is a good fault of humanity. Many crimes have been solved and criminals sent to prison all because they felt the need to converse about their illegal activities.

Doesn't change my mind at all. If you want a gun, go buy one ( I have 3 legally bought handguns). If some one wants to kill some one, they will do it with or without a gun. I guess we should outlaw knives so no one can be stabbed to death?  We should outlaw ties so no one can be strangled with them? No more screwdrivers either, they could be used to kill some one too.

Somehow I don't think criminals would care about guns being banned or not, they aren't known for being law abiding citizens after all. 

There are no guns in the country I currently live in, that doesn't mean that living here is safer. It simply means that if someone was to get into my house and point a gun at me, I'd have no way of defending myself.

 

Anyhow,I grew up in the US and my father had quite a large gun collection, he thought me about gun safety and what guns are for: protecting yourself.  
I don't understand why people think that guns being legal is a bad thing. I can guarantee you that with or without, it wouldn't make a noticeable difference in the amount of crimes involving guns..it would how ever make it harder for you to defend yourself.

A Disarmed populace is a dangerous thing. 

Good morning Master S... I knew someone would mention this. People are pissed.

 

I completely understand your position on this, but it will fall on deaf ears. This event will increase gun sales, and in the short term, not as many guns will be on the street. When police are getting gunned down while they're sitting in their cars, they will be on high alert and more likely to shoot first. This will make most criminal minds leave their heater in the closet. Not many really want to die.

 

This was a bad man, who did alot of bad things. The only teachers he ever had probably told him all his life that he had no chance to make it in this world... because he was black. He hated authority, wanted to kill cops, and wouldn't even allow the cops to kill him.

 

The real criminals here are Eric Holder, Bill De Blasio and Al Sharpton. They have created themselves a movement, based on "unity and solidarity", to get themselves some facetime on the TV... and bring together every looney left group of shit-heads, to get themselves some "dead cops". It's not the guns fault Master S... it's the people.

 

Edit: I forgot to include that racist on-his-way-out Attorney General... Eric "I belong in prison" Holder. What a tool.

Edited December 21, 201411 yr by Lysistrata

A Disarmed populace is a dangerous thing. 

 

For whom?

 

A Disarmed populace is a dangerous thing. 

 

For whom?

 

When you make owning a gun a crime... only criminals will have guns.

Doesn't change my mind at all. If you want a gun, go buy one ( I have 3 legally bought handguns). If some one wants to kill some one, they will do it with or without a gun. I guess we should outlaw knives so no one can be stabbed to death?  We should outlaw ties so no one can be strangled with them? No more screwdrivers either, they could be used to kill some one too.

That point is irrelevant.

 

A knife was created for cutting items, generally food.

Ties are used for dressing occassions.

Screwdrivers are used to screw screws.

 

A guns only purpose is to kill or cause physical harm.

And how convinient that NYC happens to be one of most restrictive places in terms of gun possesion...

 

The gun control in NYC must be not so well enforced, he? Or maybe the primary cause of crime is poverty, lack of perspectives, people spending all their life in slums, more than this/that much amount of people having a gun? If you live in a typical crime neighbourhood and you need a gun, no law is going to stop you.

 

Doesn't change my mind at all. If you want a gun, go buy one ( I have 3 legally bought handguns). If some one wants to kill some one, they will do it with or without a gun. I guess we should outlaw knives so no one can be stabbed to death?  We should outlaw ties so no one can be strangled with them? No more screwdrivers either, they could be used to kill some one too.

That point is irrelevant.

 

A knife was created for cutting items, generally food.

Ties are used for dressing occassions.

Screwdrivers are used to screw screws.

 

A guns only purpose is to kill or cause physical harm.

 

I begged a pardon on that one. I understand why the firearm was design, and yes as a weapon for lethal action. But not everyone owns a firearm so they can have it to kill someone. Where I'm from, we have the most firearms per capital in our county. With that it's a very rare case that someone will be killed by a gun. Now, I'm not saying that we are safer because we all have firearms, but my point that I'm making is that most people in my area use their firearms for hunting and target practice as a hobby. Because we like to know where are food is coming from and we like to make sure we can pull the trigger right.

 

As other people have mention, most people who kill people with firearms have this disconnection from society or people. Here, we're told about never pointing a weapon at something you didn't  want to destroy. That it's the person choice to kill someone. With all this killing it's disgusting, and it can take the pro-firearm side from you and make you question it. But in reality it's about teaching people the value of life and creating an environment where there isn't as much hate going around.

While I don't own a gun, and even if I did, odds are I wouldn't have any reason to use one. Unless a Zombie apocalypse happens. Lol. 

 

However, the right to bear arms is still there, so while this is a controversial topic, I do believe guns do have a purpose more than just killing people. Guns can be used as deterrent. Meaning, if an armed police officer is stationed somewhere, I'd be willing to bet crime in the area he is at, is going to plummet. I'm not saying Police officers can do no wrong, but there are good ones out there. I've met them, and used to talk to them frequently. 

 

Also, something else should be said. I live in North Denver, and while the neighborhood is slowly degenerating, crime isn't something we worry about too much. Except, just don't leave things on your front lawn or on the side of your house otherwise they may be stolen. I went to a very nearby King Soopers, to get groceries. After getting everything I wanted, went to the check out. I ended up seeing a man, probably a little older than me, have a gun in plain sight via his gunbelt. As you can imagine, people were staying clear of him, and even I decided to go to a different check out lane. I did see a police officer near the front of the store, and continue to see one to this day there so who knows. Now, I don't know this person, he could've been a undercover cop, or a regular civilian. I don't know. I just decided to move away from this person as I felt uncomfortable, and went to the other side of the checkouts.

 

So, I think there, at least to me, a point to what Civs can do. While I personally think if a Civ going to own a gun, a hand gun is ok, but at the same time don't think he should parade it around ether. Though I can see the counter argument of why it might be best for people who legally own guns if they are to bring them around in public, they should be clearly visible. But anything other than a simple handgun should be off limits, or be restricted to safe area's. Meaning, you could buy an SMG, or assault rifle, but it can't be at your home. It can be at a locked up spot at a police station, or a Military base and I'd be fine with that. 

 

Just my thoughts. 

Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

To be honest, gun ownership discussion is pointless. Like it or not, they're here to stay.

 

As of right now, there is 1 gun for every citizen in the USA that's a minimum of 300 million. What if everyone got their way and had gun sales banned? there'd still be at least 300 million guns in circulation. Good luck trying to reduce that...

 

 

PS: mandatory image someone showed me when this was brought up elsewhere:

http://thefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/250798_178761738920903_1659366679_n.jpg

 

Edited December 22, 201411 yr by Lanyaie

Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

Master Master Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

This

 

Plus the fact that somehow the weapon lobbyist have found a way to connect the 'American' way of thinking towards freedom with the ownership and legalization of firearms. If those were photos of weed and you'd replace the word 'firearm' or 'gun' with marihuana, the whole discussion would be backwards. 

 

 

Master Master Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

This

 

Plus the fact that somehow the weapon lobbyist have found a way to connect the 'American' way of thinking towards freedom with the ownership and legalization of firearms. If those were photos of weed and you'd replace the word 'firearm' or 'gun' with marihuana, the whole discussion would be backwards. 

 

lol good point.

 

 

 

Master Master Master Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

This

 

Plus the fact that somehow the weapon lobbyist have found a way to connect the 'American' way of thinking towards freedom with the ownership and legalization of firearms. If those were photos of weed and you'd replace the word 'firearm' or 'gun' with marihuana, the whole discussion would be backwards. 

 

lol good point.

 

Doesn't Switzerland issue every male between 20 & 30 an assault rifle? Granted, they get militia training as well, but you don't exactly hear about a lot of gun violence in Switzerland.

 

Also, the NY shooter was already a felon, who should not have been sold a gun by federal law. Yet he found one, anyway.

 

 

Master Master Master Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

This

 

Plus the fact that somehow the weapon lobbyist have found a way to connect the 'American' way of thinking towards freedom with the ownership and legalization of firearms. If those were photos of weed and you'd replace the word 'firearm' or 'gun' with marihuana, the whole discussion would be backwards. 

 

Okay I'm sorry, but this is just about the stupidest thing I have read here on the topic of guns. Firearms have never had to be "legalized" in the USA. It's in the Constitution that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. It's the "gun control lobbyists" that have been trying to get around that right for over a hundred years. Progressives cannot turn the country into a massive Federal Government as long as the American people are armed... and to trivialize the Bill of Rights with your insignificant need to smoke weed is insulting.

Why is this unfortunate incident not being labelled terrorism by mainstream media?

Why is this unfortunate incident not being labelled terrorism by mainstream media?

I think that's a good question Shah. A terrorist act is pretty much killing innocent people for the purpose of changing government policy.

I believe an arguement can be made that this was for that purpose. Is it a stronger arguement than this guy was just a criminal that wanted to murder a couple of cops? To give it some "higher purpose" would encourage more people to view it as some kind of noble act. There is no evidence that he was acting on behalf of anyone but himself, and his own hatred. Still your question is a valid one.

This is going to be a heated and controversial conversation no matter how it is brought up.  The current round being started by the murder of two police officers is only going to give the issue a little extra fire.

 

To the point made earlier.  Gun ownership has never had to be legalized in the Unites States of America.  It has been a right since the foundations of the constitution were laid.  The founders of the country believed that it was important enough to follow only freedom of speech.  That says a lot.

 

Gun ownership in the US is higher than anywhere else I know of.    There are statistics thrown around by a lot of people that are either incorrect, or intentionally skewed to support their sides case.  But taking a look at it myself this is what I can see.

 

The ATF statistics show that in 2007 there were 3,922,613 firearms in the US.  In 2010 there was 5,459,240.  That is an increase of just over 39%.  With those numbers and the rhetoric I see in the news all the time it would suggest a similar increase should be seen in homicides that involve firearms.

 

Heading over to the FBI statistics page I found the following data.  in 2007 there was 10,129 homicides involving firearms of any type.  In 2010 that number dropped to 8,874, which is a decrease of just about 14%.

 

In 2011 the number of homicides involving a firearm continued the downward trend and landed at 8,583.  I do not have the numbers available to me at the moment for gun ownership, but there is multiple reports stating that gun ownership is still on the rise.

 

All of these numbers show that legal gun ownership is not directly linked to the homicide rate with firearms.  If I get the time I will see if I can find the numbers for how many of the homicides were committed with illegal guns, or by people who could not legally own a gun.

 

I put all of this out here as a reminder to not blindly follow the media for either side.  The media is taking sides, pushing agendas, and attempting to sway those who fail to do their own research.  It is no longer an acceptable method of research to turn to the media of any form.

 

To the point of the purpose of a firearm.  Yes they were designed for more efficient killing.  They have been around since about 1000AD when the Chinese first started using what is credited as being the origin of the current firearms.  Firearms have distinct purposes.  Some are designed to hunt, so for self defense, some are made for the joy of just target shooting.  They have as many purposes as there are classifications.

 

The fact that they are efficient at what they are designed for is not the problem in my opinion.  It has more to do with who is using this tool in a manner which violates the laws surrounding the use of them.  No matter what laws you make, or the level of enforcement, the only people that will be affect by the laws are those who willingly follow them.  Meaning that I will be affected because I legally own all of my firearms, but Johnny Gang Banger with his illegal weapons cash will be unaffected because he doesn't give two craps about what laws are out there, or that he is in violation of them.  More restrictive gun laws will not stop the majority of firearm related incidents.

 

Also, when I get the chance I will dig up some of the statistics that I have seen that show a sharp drop in crime, especially violent crime, in areas where concealed carry license issuance has increased.  An armed citizen is harder to rob, and not knowing who is armed means a roulette wheel spin every time.

 

 

 

 

Master Master Master Master Samus, you are barking up the wrong tree with this, its a different society as the european (or british if you want to go that way) and they are working with it their way.

 

Yeah, different society, different thought processes I guess

 

This

 

Plus the fact that somehow the weapon lobbyist have found a way to connect the 'American' way of thinking towards freedom with the ownership and legalization of firearms. If those were photos of weed and you'd replace the word 'firearm' or 'gun' with marihuana, the whole discussion would be backwards. 

 

lol good point.

 

Doesn't Switzerland issue every male between 20 & 30 an assault rifle? Granted, they get militia training as well, but you don't exactly hear about a lot of gun violence in Switzerland.

 

Also, the NY shooter was already a felon, who should not have been sold a gun by federal law. Yet he found one, anyway.

 

Military training even, its a kinda-draft system they got going there.

 

Now if this directly relates to their hightend ratio of suicide and gun murders is up for debate. It is related and certainly doesn't aliavate (lovely word >_>) it, but I won't say its the sole reason (aka you don't kill yourself just cause you got a gun, but it does make it easier).

 

As for the "society" difference, americans are ingrained with the idea that the 2nd amendment protects their freedom thruw firearms, how europe is less free then america is another debate thou >_>