Jump to content

Welcome to IRON Forums Website
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Russia - Where the opposition gets shot.


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#41
Shahenshah

Shahenshah

    Minister of the Dark Arts

  • NM⎪Inactive
  • 9,117 posts
  • Resources:
  • CN Nation ID:162944
  • Souls Baptized:1,876,873
  • Squadron:Kilo

 

I believe Putin will go too far. Power hungry with an enormous ego.

Combine that with mafia style politics and he either ends up dead or causes a coup. A matter of time.

I don't know about that. Stalin lasted until his death, and he was Georgian. I imagine an actual Russian would last at least that long. 

 

There's a huge gap in body count between Stalin and Putin tbh. Bush along with his poodle called Blair probably tops the list if we're going contemporary.


Edited by Shahenshah, 06 March 2015 - 06:39 PM.


Awards Bar:

Users Awards

#42
ccabal86

ccabal86

    IRON Rose

  • NM⎪Inactive
  • 12,373 posts
  • Resources:
  • CN Nation ID:362483
  • Souls Baptized:5,083,976
  • Squadron:Kilo

Are you saying you're the international law police?, because I have bridge to sell you and the sky is green. You engineer a coup, put in place an illegal govt under which an election occurs etc and cry foul when Russia responds in a similar but in a more swift and determined manner. I'm sorry but that's a very laughable comment, especially in context of international law which gets trampled over by you and allies every couple years or so.

 

Temporary. A temporary government whose mandate ran out when closely monitored elections took place. The temporary government took office when Yanukovich, instead of calling early elections himself, fled the country with his riches. We're also talking real elections, not like the mock one they had in Crimea where voters could only effectively pick one answer
 

One of the main governing principle in international relations is pacta sunt servanda which basically means "agreements should be fulfilled". Of course there's no nation that adheres fully to this rule, governments break international law from time to time, but these breaches are usually minor. Such gross violations like in the case of Russia are very rare, and others keep tab.


Posted Image

Posted Image

"Baptized in Fire and Blood"


Awards Bar:

Users Awards

#43
onbekende

onbekende

    IRON King/Queen of Spam!!!

  • Special Betsy Mask
  • 26,898 posts
  • Resources:
  • CN Nation ID:012501
  • Squadron:Foreign Diplomat

Lets just split the country in half, east and west. Germany fared well by it no? :D


Emperor of the Benelux
Founder of the Commonwealth of Planets
Founder and CEO of JF

2021-03-21-sig.jpg


Awards Bar:

Users Awards

#44
ccabal86

ccabal86

    IRON Rose

  • NM⎪Inactive
  • 12,373 posts
  • Resources:
  • CN Nation ID:362483
  • Souls Baptized:5,083,976
  • Squadron:Kilo

I would agree that at this point, that would be best. The Ruskies can go right ahead and rebuild the ruined infrastructure, pay the pensions, civil servants etc.


Posted Image

Posted Image

"Baptized in Fire and Blood"


Awards Bar:

Users Awards

#45
Perez

Perez

    Cast IRON

  • NM⎪Inactive
  • 582 posts
  • Resources:
  • CN Nation ID:539807
  • Souls Baptized:0
  • Squadron:Alpha

 

 

 

 

And what does that has to do with this? When has Russia attacked any country with a nuke? Nukes are for deterrence. They are also the most effective deterrent when someone bigger than you is out to screw you. Look at the North Koreans, arguably the worst regime on Earth before ISIS showed up. The tyrant sits happy on the throne knowing there will be no overt external military intervention.

So far, the Russians have used nukes only for deterrence. That's precisely the point, it can deter from adequate response to Russian aggression in Georgia and Ukraine. Of course they can do this relatively easy, Georgia and Ukraine are unaligned. But Russia has been following the same script for a while now, which is to agitate Russian minorities in country X, spark unrest, then intervene militarily and go for a nice landgrab. But then there are NATO countries with significant Russian minorities like the Baltic states and Poland. The question is, when will the Russians feel brave enough to try the same shit there, and how far NATO is willing to go to protect these states in the face of Russian nuclear "deterrance". This threat might not be very real or concerning to you, but as a resident of a country that has been under Soviet occupation from 1945-1989, and where the far-right party (current ranked the second most popular) is openly financed by the Russians, it's hard for me to take a laid-back attitude.

The politician in question was marginal at best, served one of the most corrupt regimes of its time and never really made a come back after several attempts. Putin and his friends are probably corrupt, the rich have gotten richer (like everywhere else) but so have the Russian people been much better off economically then they were under previous Russian regimes.

This IMO is an attempt to engineer unrest. If Putin was involved, there would probably would have been no CCTV footage, no dashcam footages nor the Ukrainian girlfriend around for the whole scene. This isn't a KGB or CIA quality job, its quite poor. Putin is sitting on peak popularity ratings, he doesn't needs this drama when his opponents are being sidelined perfectly well by the public anyway. The bottom line is, this does not benefit Putin, he does not do shit that doesn't benefit him. Think whatever of Putin, but he's not dumb and stupid, arguably the smartest guy in room when all the world leaders sit on a table.

Truth is, there's been an ongoing string of murders against Russian polititians and journalists who have been critical with Putin ever since he came to power. Of course, he might not be responsible for each and ever one of those, but it's increasingly hard to give the benefit of doubt. The quality of the job also means very little, what matters is that the job was done. One can just as easily say that it was staged that way PRECISELY because we'd think secret services were more professional than that. Much easier to blame it on some mafiosos that way, wouldn't surprise me if they found the "killers" in a couple of months, wrapping up the case for good.

 

 

Agression in Ukraine? You overthrew a democratically elected neutral govt and replaced it with stooge govt, you went into Russia's backyard and tried to steal their ball, they kicked you in the balls instead as a response, this isn't aggression, it's an adequate response. You complain about funding of pro-Russian politicians, pro-western politicians get funded too, openly, to the tune of billions, in all the neighboring states of Russia, probably alot more than what Russians can afford. Quid Pro Quo.

 

Putin is smart enough to not go and poke a proper member of NATO, as is NATO that is smart enough to not use one of it's members to poke Russia, instead they use more grey or red areas rather than the blue.

 

Job doing and quality matter a lot, the job was done in Iraq too, but you can see the results and job now needs to be done again, quality absolutely matters, the politician could have been knocked out due to heart attack or some accident, but getting shot in middle of kremlin on cameras, that's custom designed for taking a PR shot at Putin. Putin had no reason to knock out someone who doesn't even have the political stature to be a viable opposition leader nor managed to build up one for the past few years and Putin had the capability and the means to knock em out where it wouldnt hurt him politically.

 

Putin played the cards he had, he inherited a country falling on it's own weight and turned it around into something. All these incompetent liberal petty politicians, the so-called opposition, they had their chances, they did nothing, this guy who got killed was part of the previous administration that devoured Russia from within. The only mileage they get is in western media because they repeat verbatim whatever propaganda that's flowing from west to east, that's the limit of their worth. 

 

The only reason we went to his backyard is because he (Putin) broke international laws. Do you expect the world leader to watch blindly? 

 

 

Are you saying you're the international law police?, because I have bridge to sell you and the sky is green. You engineer a coup, put in place an illegal govt under which an election occurs etc and cry foul when Russia responds in a similar but in a more swift and determined manner. I'm sorry but that's a very laughable comment, especially in context of international law which gets trampled over by you and allies every couple years or so.

 

You intervened not to defend some law, you intervened to contain Russia, because you deem it in your self-interest and to cut Russia's wings, power is a relative thing, gotta keep a check on it and all that is perfectly fine and understandable, you don't get to be super power sitting doing nothing, you gotta kick any threat to your power every now and then, that's how the game is played. But cmon, if you honestly believe this has to do with international law, then my friend, you're very naive. 

 

I think Putin's biggest challenge now would be to develop  a sustainable governance institution  robust enough to withstand enormous outside pressure and with an ability for a clean and smooth succession and transition. South Korea managed it well as a case study, they developed and progressed under a dictator and then transitioned into a functioning democracy without a lot of drama. However, geopolitics would mean there will be strong intent and resources poured in Russia to destabilize it internally like in Ukraine and countless other countries over the past few decades.

 

 

Once again, the issue is not that Russia is a democracy or not, or the govt is run like a mafia or anything, let's not insult each other's intelligence by pretending as such, the problem is Russia isnt bending the knee. I can understand where ccabal is coming from, but this has nothing to do with style of governance, you know it wont be hard enough to point out bff/own govts having worst record than Putin.

 

In your first paragraph: 

1) I rather be corrected by a police(US) than a thief(RUS).

2) The coup was made by the people, it was their choice. If the previous Ukrainian president would just accept to join the EU, non of this would of happened, people got pissed and said: "Hey this guy doesn't want to listen our opinions, lets protest".  We influenced it, yes but that doesn't mean we engineer it. 

3)At least the way we trample it is way less comprising than Russia. Name me one sovereign country who has been annexed in the 21 century, apart from Crimea. None...

 

In second paragraph:

Exactly, to contain a potential threat that might just keep moving forward if no one does something. 

 

In third paragraph:

Yep, just killing the opposition.


"%20alt=

Halo 5 f@%ing HYYYYYYYYYYPE!!!!!!

Awards Bar:

Users Awards

#46
ccabal86

ccabal86

    IRON Rose

  • NM⎪Inactive
  • 12,373 posts
  • Resources:
  • CN Nation ID:362483
  • Souls Baptized:5,083,976
  • Squadron:Kilo

As expected, they already "caught" the "killers" :rolleyes:

 

They were - of course - Chechnyans: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31788073


Posted Image

Posted Image

"Baptized in Fire and Blood"


Awards Bar:

Users Awards

#47
onbekende

onbekende

    IRON King/Queen of Spam!!!

  • Special Betsy Mask
  • 26,898 posts
  • Resources:
  • CN Nation ID:012501
  • Squadron:Foreign Diplomat

If the world can agree on 1 thing, it is that Chechnyans are excellent warriors. The issue sadly is, they are on everyones paycheck.


Emperor of the Benelux
Founder of the Commonwealth of Planets
Founder and CEO of JF

2021-03-21-sig.jpg


Awards Bar:

Users Awards

#48
Tripl3 Thr3at

Tripl3 Thr3at

    Wrought IRON

  • NM⎪Inactive
  • 175 posts
  • Resources:
  • CN Nation ID:564020
  • Souls Baptized:3446

As expected, they already "caught" the "killers" :rolleyes:

 

They were - of course - Chechnyans: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31788073

 

I hope you didn't actually believe that report. It smells like evidence has been planted, and scapegoats have bloomed.

 

By the way... hope you read this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/12/vladimir-putin-sick-kremlin-cancels-meetings-uses-old-photos


Th3 Tripl3 Thr3at R3publik
IRON Diplomat
______________________

Posted Image


"Speak softly, and carry a big stick!" -- Teddy Roosevelt, U.S. President
"No bastard ever won a war dying for his country. He won it by causing the other poor dumb bastard to die for his country." -- Gen. George S. Patton


Awards Bar:

Users Awards




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users