47 replies to this topic

[Shahenshah]

Those countries aren't sitting on the world's largest stockpile of nuclear weapons though

And what does that has to do with this? When has Russia attacked any country with a nuke? Nukes are for deterrence. They are also the most effective deterrent when someone bigger than you is out to screw you. Look at the North Koreans, arguably the worst regime on Earth before ISIS showed up. The tyrant sits happy on the throne knowing there will be no overt external military intervention.

The politician in question was marginal at best, served one of the most corrupt regimes of its time and never really made a come back after several attempts. Putin and his friends are probably corrupt, the rich have gotten richer (like everywhere else) but so have the Russian people been much better off economically then they were under previous Russian regimes.

This IMO is an attempt to engineer unrest. If Putin was involved, there would probably would have been no CCTV footage, no dashcam footages nor the Ukrainian girlfriend around for the whole scene. This isn't a KGB or CIA quality job, its quite poor. Putin is sitting on peak popularity ratings, he doesn't needs this drama when his opponents are being sidelined perfectly well by the public anyway. The bottom line is, this does not benefit Putin, he does not do shit that doesn't benefit him. Think whatever of Putin, but he's not dumb and stupid, arguably the smartest guy in room when all the world leaders sit on a table.

Edited by Shahenshah, 05 March 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[James]

I'm with Shah on this one. Besides, every country does it. Including the United States. I still don't think this was done by the Kremlin.

[ccabal86]

And what does that has to do with this? When has Russia attacked any country with a nuke? Nukes are for deterrence. They are also the most effective deterrent when someone bigger than you is out to screw you. Look at the North Koreans, arguably the worst regime on Earth before ISIS showed up. The tyrant sits happy on the throne knowing there will be no overt external military intervention.

So far, the Russians have used nukes only for deterrence. That's precisely the point, it can deter from adequate response to Russian aggression in Georgia and Ukraine. Of course they can do this relatively easy, Georgia and Ukraine are unaligned. But Russia has been following the same script for a while now, which is to agitate Russian minorities in country X, spark unrest, then intervene militarily and go for a nice landgrab. But then there are NATO countries with significant Russian minorities like the Baltic states and Poland. The question is, when will the Russians feel brave enough to try the same shit there, and how far NATO is willing to go to protect these states in the face of Russian nuclear "deterrance". This threat might not be very real or concerning to you, but as a resident of a country that has been under Soviet occupation from 1945-1989, and where the far-right party (current ranked the second most popular) is openly financed by the Russians, it's hard for me to take a laid-back attitude.

The politician in question was marginal at best, served one of the most corrupt regimes of its time and never really made a come back after several attempts. Putin and his friends are probably corrupt, the rich have gotten richer (like everywhere else) but so have the Russian people been much better off economically then they were under previous Russian regimes.

This IMO is an attempt to engineer unrest. If Putin was involved, there would probably would have been no CCTV footage, no dashcam footages nor the Ukrainian girlfriend around for the whole scene. This isn't a KGB or CIA quality job, its quite poor. Putin is sitting on peak popularity ratings, he doesn't needs this drama when his opponents are being sidelined perfectly well by the public anyway. The bottom line is, this does not benefit Putin, he does not do shit that doesn't benefit him. Think whatever of Putin, but he's not dumb and stupid, arguably the smartest guy in room when all the world leaders sit on a table.

Truth is, there's been an ongoing string of murders against Russian polititians and journalists who have been critical with Putin ever since he came to power. Of course, he might not be responsible for each and ever one of those, but it's increasingly hard to give the benefit of doubt. The quality of the job also means very little, what matters is that the job was done. One can just as easily say that it was staged that way PRECISELY because we'd think secret services were more professional than that. Much easier to blame it on some mafiosos that way, wouldn't surprise me if they found the "killers" in a couple of months, wrapping up the case for good.

Edited by ccabal86, 05 March 2015 - 05:18 PM.

[Perez]

 

And what does that has to do with this? When has Russia attacked any country with a nuke? Nukes are for deterrence. They are also the most effective deterrent when someone bigger than you is out to screw you. Look at the North Koreans, arguably the worst regime on Earth before ISIS showed up. The tyrant sits happy on the throne knowing there will be no overt external military intervention.

So far, the Russians have used nukes only for deterrence. That's precisely the point, it can deter from adequate response to Russian aggression in Georgia and Ukraine. Of course they can do this relatively easy, Georgia and Ukraine are unaligned. But Russia has been following the same script for a while now, which is to agitate Russian minorities in country X, spark unrest, then intervene militarily and go for a nice landgrab. But then there are NATO countries with significant Russian minorities like the Baltic states and Poland. The question is, when will the Russians feel brave enough to try the same shit there, and how far NATO is willing to go to protect these states in the face of Russian nuclear "deterrance". This threat might not be very real or concerning to you, but as a resident of a country that has been under Soviet occupation from 1945-1989, and where the far-right party (current ranked the second most popular) is openly financed by the Russians, it's hard for me to take a laid-back attitude.

The politician in question was marginal at best, served one of the most corrupt regimes of its time and never really made a come back after several attempts. Putin and his friends are probably corrupt, the rich have gotten richer (like everywhere else) but so have the Russian people been much better off economically then they were under previous Russian regimes.

This IMO is an attempt to engineer unrest. If Putin was involved, there would probably would have been no CCTV footage, no dashcam footages nor the Ukrainian girlfriend around for the whole scene. This isn't a KGB or CIA quality job, its quite poor. Putin is sitting on peak popularity ratings, he doesn't needs this drama when his opponents are being sidelined perfectly well by the public anyway. The bottom line is, this does not benefit Putin, he does not do shit that doesn't benefit him. Think whatever of Putin, but he's not dumb and stupid, arguably the smartest guy in room when all the world leaders sit on a table.

Truth is, there's been an ongoing string of murders against Russian polititians and journalists who have been critical with Putin ever since he came to power. Of course, he might not be responsible for each and ever one of those, but it's increasingly hard to give the benefit of doubt. The quality of the job also means very little, what matters is that the job was done. One can just as easily say that it was staged that way PRECISELY because we'd think secret services were more professional than that. Much easier to blame it on some mafiosos that way, wouldn't surprise me if they found the "killers" in a couple of months, wrapping up the case for good.

 

Sorry guys but I would have to side with CC on this. It honestly makes more sense.

[Lanyaie]

When you put world leaders in one room, Putin certainly has shown he's the smartest. The man knows exactly what he's doing and how to get away with it, and as he has proved it's working quite well.

[Fox Fire]

OMG! That's it! You nailed it! Tywin is Vlad Putin in RL!

Holy shit! XD

 

 

 

 

So, Putin went on record saying it must have been "outsiders intending to destabilize the country" and that the assassins had "sacrificed" an ally for that purpose. That's Tywin level propaganda right there.

 

The sad thing is, the idiot Russians believe it.

 

What is there not to believe? They get propaganda shoved down their throat. Even if Putin is involved, do you really think any Russia would be dumb enough to accuse him of being involved?

  

I'd rather be an idiot than a dead man.

 

All nations shove propaganda down their citizens throats.
Some more than others, but they all do.

 

 

 

Russia in its current state is friendly then the hundred gangs that want take it over.

apart from the current gang thats running the place no? >_>

 

^^^^^

 

 

 

 

 

Russia in its current state is friendly then the hundred gangs that want take it over.

apart from the current gang thats running the place no? >_>

 

I never said I liked the current ones. But there are worse possibilitys. 

 

Worse than the Russian Mafia and KGB having a kid?

[Fox Fire]

Truth is, there's been an ongoing string of murders against Russian
polititians and journalists who have been critical with Putin ever since
he came to power. Of course, he might not be responsible for each and
ever one of those, but it's increasingly hard to give the benefit of
doubt. The quality of the job also means very little, what matters is
that the job was done. One can just as easily say that it was staged
that way PRECISELY because we'd think secret services were more
professional than that. Much easier to blame it on some mafiosos that
way, wouldn't surprise me if they found the "killers" in a couple of
months, wrapping up the case for good.

No, that's been happening since the Soviet Union fell. Russia is one of the most dangerous nations for journalists to travel to. The place is described by the US government as a "virtual mafia state."

[ccabal86]

When you put world leaders in one room, Putin certainly has shown he's the smartest. The man knows exactly what he's doing and how to get away with it, and as he has proved it's working quite well.

I have to disagree here, I believe Putin's grand strategy is surely a losing one on the long term. He's busy making enemies in Europe and busy proving his untrustworthiness to others like the OPEC countries he screwed over a few years back. It's no wonder they told the Russian negotiator to fuck off when they tried to broker a deal with them a few months ago. Even his closest allies, Lukashenko and Nazarbajev don't trust him anymore, and are busy making huge profits on the sanctions by means of re-exports. Meanwhile, the entirety of the Russian economy is built and focused on oil and gas exports while green energy is becoming ever more prevalent, even in China, yet the Russians are doing little to adapt if anything at all.

Edited by ccabal86, 06 March 2015 - 03:45 AM.

[Owney]

Putin, a cold, calculated man. Makes Obama look like a pussy.
 

I respect Russia, at least they have testicular fortitude. 

[ccabal86]

Maybe, but if you make nothing but enemies, it will eventually come back to bite you in the ass.

[Fox Fire]

Maybe, but if you make nothing but enemies, it will eventually come back to bite you in the ass.

Russia has their friends. In fact, I hear their relations with Germany weren't too bad before this. I think the Russians are just sick of us trying to box them into the east and buddying up to the post Soviet states, luring them away from Russia's influence.

[Shahenshah]

 

And what does that has to do with this? When has Russia attacked any country with a nuke? Nukes are for deterrence. They are also the most effective deterrent when someone bigger than you is out to screw you. Look at the North Koreans, arguably the worst regime on Earth before ISIS showed up. The tyrant sits happy on the throne knowing there will be no overt external military intervention.

So far, the Russians have used nukes only for deterrence. That's precisely the point, it can deter from adequate response to Russian aggression in Georgia and Ukraine. Of course they can do this relatively easy, Georgia and Ukraine are unaligned. But Russia has been following the same script for a while now, which is to agitate Russian minorities in country X, spark unrest, then intervene militarily and go for a nice landgrab. But then there are NATO countries with significant Russian minorities like the Baltic states and Poland. The question is, when will the Russians feel brave enough to try the same shit there, and how far NATO is willing to go to protect these states in the face of Russian nuclear "deterrance". This threat might not be very real or concerning to you, but as a resident of a country that has been under Soviet occupation from 1945-1989, and where the far-right party (current ranked the second most popular) is openly financed by the Russians, it's hard for me to take a laid-back attitude.

The politician in question was marginal at best, served one of the most corrupt regimes of its time and never really made a come back after several attempts. Putin and his friends are probably corrupt, the rich have gotten richer (like everywhere else) but so have the Russian people been much better off economically then they were under previous Russian regimes.

This IMO is an attempt to engineer unrest. If Putin was involved, there would probably would have been no CCTV footage, no dashcam footages nor the Ukrainian girlfriend around for the whole scene. This isn't a KGB or CIA quality job, its quite poor. Putin is sitting on peak popularity ratings, he doesn't needs this drama when his opponents are being sidelined perfectly well by the public anyway. The bottom line is, this does not benefit Putin, he does not do shit that doesn't benefit him. Think whatever of Putin, but he's not dumb and stupid, arguably the smartest guy in room when all the world leaders sit on a table.

Truth is, there's been an ongoing string of murders against Russian polititians and journalists who have been critical with Putin ever since he came to power. Of course, he might not be responsible for each and ever one of those, but it's increasingly hard to give the benefit of doubt. The quality of the job also means very little, what matters is that the job was done. One can just as easily say that it was staged that way PRECISELY because we'd think secret services were more professional than that. Much easier to blame it on some mafiosos that way, wouldn't surprise me if they found the "killers" in a couple of months, wrapping up the case for good.

 

 

Agression in Ukraine? You overthrew a democratically elected neutral govt and replaced it with stooge govt, you went into Russia's backyard and tried to steal their ball, they kicked you in the balls instead as a response, this isn't aggression, it's an adequate response. You complain about funding of pro-Russian politicians, pro-western politicians get funded too, openly, to the tune of billions, in all the neighboring states of Russia, probably alot more than what Russians can afford. Quid Pro Quo.

 

Putin is smart enough to not go and poke a proper member of NATO, as is NATO that is smart enough to not use one of it's members to poke Russia, instead they use more grey or red areas rather than the blue.

 

Job doing and quality matter a lot, the job was done in Iraq too, but you can see the results and job now needs to be done again, quality absolutely matters, the politician could have been knocked out due to heart attack or some accident, but getting shot in middle of kremlin on cameras, that's custom designed for taking a PR shot at Putin. Putin had no reason to knock out someone who doesn't even have the political stature to be a viable opposition leader nor managed to build up one for the past few years and Putin had the capability and the means to knock em out where it wouldnt hurt him politically.

 

Putin played the cards he had, he inherited a country falling on it's own weight and turned it around into something. All these incompetent liberal petty politicians, the so-called opposition, they had their chances, they did nothing, this guy who got killed was part of the previous administration that devoured Russia from within. The only mileage they get is in western media because they repeat verbatim whatever propaganda that's flowing from west to east, that's the limit of their worth. 

Edited by Shahenshah, 06 March 2015 - 11:21 AM.

[Commander Shepard]

It's funny people think, by people I mean Americans and westerners think the US does nothing wrong and everything that happens is just crazy conspiracy theorists making up stories. 

But when something goes wrong in a different country it's obviously the government because we say so. 

 

 

I actually avoid shit like this because I know there is going to be stupidity.

To call Russians idiots for believing this makes you a massive dumbass imo or a hypocrite at the very least. 

[Perez]

 

 

And what does that has to do with this? When has Russia attacked any country with a nuke? Nukes are for deterrence. They are also the most effective deterrent when someone bigger than you is out to screw you. Look at the North Koreans, arguably the worst regime on Earth before ISIS showed up. The tyrant sits happy on the throne knowing there will be no overt external military intervention.

So far, the Russians have used nukes only for deterrence. That's precisely the point, it can deter from adequate response to Russian aggression in Georgia and Ukraine. Of course they can do this relatively easy, Georgia and Ukraine are unaligned. But Russia has been following the same script for a while now, which is to agitate Russian minorities in country X, spark unrest, then intervene militarily and go for a nice landgrab. But then there are NATO countries with significant Russian minorities like the Baltic states and Poland. The question is, when will the Russians feel brave enough to try the same shit there, and how far NATO is willing to go to protect these states in the face of Russian nuclear "deterrance". This threat might not be very real or concerning to you, but as a resident of a country that has been under Soviet occupation from 1945-1989, and where the far-right party (current ranked the second most popular) is openly financed by the Russians, it's hard for me to take a laid-back attitude.

The politician in question was marginal at best, served one of the most corrupt regimes of its time and never really made a come back after several attempts. Putin and his friends are probably corrupt, the rich have gotten richer (like everywhere else) but so have the Russian people been much better off economically then they were under previous Russian regimes.

This IMO is an attempt to engineer unrest. If Putin was involved, there would probably would have been no CCTV footage, no dashcam footages nor the Ukrainian girlfriend around for the whole scene. This isn't a KGB or CIA quality job, its quite poor. Putin is sitting on peak popularity ratings, he doesn't needs this drama when his opponents are being sidelined perfectly well by the public anyway. The bottom line is, this does not benefit Putin, he does not do shit that doesn't benefit him. Think whatever of Putin, but he's not dumb and stupid, arguably the smartest guy in room when all the world leaders sit on a table.

Truth is, there's been an ongoing string of murders against Russian polititians and journalists who have been critical with Putin ever since he came to power. Of course, he might not be responsible for each and ever one of those, but it's increasingly hard to give the benefit of doubt. The quality of the job also means very little, what matters is that the job was done. One can just as easily say that it was staged that way PRECISELY because we'd think secret services were more professional than that. Much easier to blame it on some mafiosos that way, wouldn't surprise me if they found the "killers" in a couple of months, wrapping up the case for good.

 

 

Agression in Ukraine? You overthrew a democratically elected neutral govt and replaced it with stooge govt, you went into Russia's backyard and tried to steal their ball, they kicked you in the balls instead as a response, this isn't aggression, it's an adequate response. You complain about funding of pro-Russian politicians, pro-western politicians get funded too, openly, to the tune of billions, in all the neighboring states of Russia, probably alot more than what Russians can afford. Quid Pro Quo.

 

Putin is smart enough to not go and poke a proper member of NATO, as is NATO that is smart enough to not use one of it's members to poke Russia, instead they use more grey or red areas rather than the blue.

 

Job doing and quality matter a lot, the job was done in Iraq too, but you can see the results and job now needs to be done again, quality absolutely matters, the politician could have been knocked out due to heart attack or some accident, but getting shot in middle of kremlin on cameras, that's custom designed for taking a PR shot at Putin. Putin had no reason to knock out someone who doesn't even have the political stature to be a viable opposition leader nor managed to build up one for the past few years and Putin had the capability and the means to knock em out where it wouldnt hurt him politically.

 

Putin played the cards he had, he inherited a country falling on it's own weight and turned it around into something. All these incompetent liberal petty politicians, the so-called opposition, they had their chances, they did nothing, this guy who got killed was part of the previous administration that devoured Russia from within. The only mileage they get is in western media because they repeat verbatim whatever propaganda that's flowing from west to east, that's the limit of their worth. 

 

The only reason we went to his backyard is because he (Putin) broke international laws. Do you expect the world leader to watch blindly? 

[ccabal86]

Russia has their friends. In fact, I hear their relations with Germany weren't too bad before this.

 

Indeed, before this, which means when Europe was still hopeful that Russia would recognize the obvious benefits of long-term cooperation rather then confrontation. Could have been a win-win, but instead it turned into a lose-lose.  Still, Russia, has more to lose than Europe, after all, European economies are built on more than the export of two types of energy resources. Of course, Russia can pack up its toys and just sell to China for a lot less,  but hey, they sure showed us, right?
 

 

Agression in Ukraine? You overthrew a democratically elected neutral govt and replaced it with stooge govt, you went into Russia's backyard and tried to steal their ball, they kicked you in the balls instead as a response, this isn't aggression, it's an adequate response.

Actually, the Maidan protests began precisely because Yanukovich gave up the neutrality, in favor of developing closer ties with the Russians, and severing any hopes of a closer European integration. Events lead to early elections In May 25, 2014, which were closely monitored by the OSCE (in which Russia is also a member) except for areas under direct Russian occupation or proxy-financed rebellion. Clearly, those areas were not interested in voicing their opinions peacefully anymore.

 

But either way, I was under the impression that Ukraine was a sovereign country that had the right for self-determination? And that Russia itself guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity DIRECTLY in two(Article 2 & 3) different (Article 1; 2 & 3) treaties. Not even going to mentions more generic stuff like the the UN and OSCE charters.

 

 

The politician could have been knocked out due to heart attack or some accident, but getting shot in middle of kremlin on cameras, that's custom designed for taking a PR shot at Putin. Putin had no reason to knock out someone who doesn't even have the political stature to be a viable opposition leader nor managed to build up one for the past few years and Putin had the capability and the means to knock em out where it wouldnt hurt him politically.

 

Actually, what CCTV footage are we talking about, because funnily enough, the cameras weren't working at the time. How unfortunate! If you mean this video (with the ant-sized people on it) it's from a TV Center webcam, which they use as a live background for news reports and whatnot, and wasn't designed to identify anyone or anything. As for Nemtsov being insignificant: yes, in a way, you are right. That's because there's no friggin opposition left to sperak of!

 

 

Putin is smart enough to not go and poke a proper member of NATO, as is NATO that is smart enough to not use one of it's members to poke Russia, instead they use more grey or red areas rather than the blue.

 

Agreed about NATO, but you give Putin WAY too much credit. Never underestimate what unchallenged and yet surprisingly lonely megalomaniacs are capable of.

 

Putin played the cards he had, he inherited a country falling on it's own weight and turned it around into something.

 

True, but on the long term, you still need allies to have your back and they are getting fewer and fewer

 

 

It's funny people think, by people I mean Americans and westerners think the US does nothing wrong and everything that happens is just crazy conspiracy theorists making up stories. 

But when something goes wrong in a different country it's obviously the government because we say so.

 

Certainly didn't say that, the fine people of Latin America could elaborate on this subject at length. If you want MY PERSONAL opinion though, I'd pick US influence over the Russians any fucking day.

 

To call Russians idiots for believing this makes you a massive dumbass imo or a hypocrite at the very least.

 

LOL

[ccabal86]

I already know what the reactions will be: ITS ALL JUST WESTERN PROPAGANDA HARRRRRRRGH!

[Lysistrata]

I believe Putin will go too far. Power hungry with an enormous ego.

Combine that with mafia style politics and he either ends up dead or causes a coup. A matter of time.

[Duderonomy]

I believe Putin will go too far. Power hungry with an enormous ego.

Combine that with mafia style politics and he either ends up dead or causes a coup. A matter of time.

I don't know about that. Stalin lasted until his death, and he was Georgian. I imagine an actual Russian would last at least that long. 

[Lysistrata]

 

I believe Putin will go too far. Power hungry with an enormous ego.

Combine that with mafia style politics and he either ends up dead or causes a coup. A matter of time.

I don't know about that. Stalin lasted until his death, and he was Georgian. I imagine an actual Russian would last at least that long. 

 

Yes my friend, you are correct. The Castro brothers are proof positive that they can defy the laws of mortality.

[Shahenshah]

 

 

 

And what does that has to do with this? When has Russia attacked any country with a nuke? Nukes are for deterrence. They are also the most effective deterrent when someone bigger than you is out to screw you. Look at the North Koreans, arguably the worst regime on Earth before ISIS showed up. The tyrant sits happy on the throne knowing there will be no overt external military intervention.

So far, the Russians have used nukes only for deterrence. That's precisely the point, it can deter from adequate response to Russian aggression in Georgia and Ukraine. Of course they can do this relatively easy, Georgia and Ukraine are unaligned. But Russia has been following the same script for a while now, which is to agitate Russian minorities in country X, spark unrest, then intervene militarily and go for a nice landgrab. But then there are NATO countries with significant Russian minorities like the Baltic states and Poland. The question is, when will the Russians feel brave enough to try the same shit there, and how far NATO is willing to go to protect these states in the face of Russian nuclear "deterrance". This threat might not be very real or concerning to you, but as a resident of a country that has been under Soviet occupation from 1945-1989, and where the far-right party (current ranked the second most popular) is openly financed by the Russians, it's hard for me to take a laid-back attitude.

The politician in question was marginal at best, served one of the most corrupt regimes of its time and never really made a come back after several attempts. Putin and his friends are probably corrupt, the rich have gotten richer (like everywhere else) but so have the Russian people been much better off economically then they were under previous Russian regimes.

This IMO is an attempt to engineer unrest. If Putin was involved, there would probably would have been no CCTV footage, no dashcam footages nor the Ukrainian girlfriend around for the whole scene. This isn't a KGB or CIA quality job, its quite poor. Putin is sitting on peak popularity ratings, he doesn't needs this drama when his opponents are being sidelined perfectly well by the public anyway. The bottom line is, this does not benefit Putin, he does not do shit that doesn't benefit him. Think whatever of Putin, but he's not dumb and stupid, arguably the smartest guy in room when all the world leaders sit on a table.

Truth is, there's been an ongoing string of murders against Russian polititians and journalists who have been critical with Putin ever since he came to power. Of course, he might not be responsible for each and ever one of those, but it's increasingly hard to give the benefit of doubt. The quality of the job also means very little, what matters is that the job was done. One can just as easily say that it was staged that way PRECISELY because we'd think secret services were more professional than that. Much easier to blame it on some mafiosos that way, wouldn't surprise me if they found the "killers" in a couple of months, wrapping up the case for good.

 

 

Agression in Ukraine? You overthrew a democratically elected neutral govt and replaced it with stooge govt, you went into Russia's backyard and tried to steal their ball, they kicked you in the balls instead as a response, this isn't aggression, it's an adequate response. You complain about funding of pro-Russian politicians, pro-western politicians get funded too, openly, to the tune of billions, in all the neighboring states of Russia, probably alot more than what Russians can afford. Quid Pro Quo.

 

Putin is smart enough to not go and poke a proper member of NATO, as is NATO that is smart enough to not use one of it's members to poke Russia, instead they use more grey or red areas rather than the blue.

 

Job doing and quality matter a lot, the job was done in Iraq too, but you can see the results and job now needs to be done again, quality absolutely matters, the politician could have been knocked out due to heart attack or some accident, but getting shot in middle of kremlin on cameras, that's custom designed for taking a PR shot at Putin. Putin had no reason to knock out someone who doesn't even have the political stature to be a viable opposition leader nor managed to build up one for the past few years and Putin had the capability and the means to knock em out where it wouldnt hurt him politically.

 

Putin played the cards he had, he inherited a country falling on it's own weight and turned it around into something. All these incompetent liberal petty politicians, the so-called opposition, they had their chances, they did nothing, this guy who got killed was part of the previous administration that devoured Russia from within. The only mileage they get is in western media because they repeat verbatim whatever propaganda that's flowing from west to east, that's the limit of their worth. 

 

The only reason we went to his backyard is because he (Putin) broke international laws. Do you expect the world leader to watch blindly? 

 

 

Are you saying you're the international law police?, because I have bridge to sell you and the sky is green. You engineer a coup, put in place an illegal govt under which an election occurs etc and cry foul when Russia responds in a similar but in a more swift and determined manner. I'm sorry but that's a very laughable comment, especially in context of international law which gets trampled over by you and allies every couple years or so.

 

You intervened not to defend some law, you intervened to contain Russia, because you deem it in your self-interest and to cut Russia's wings, power is a relative thing, gotta keep a check on it and all that is perfectly fine and understandable, you don't get to be super power sitting doing nothing, you gotta kick any threat to your power every now and then, that's how the game is played. But cmon, if you honestly believe this has to do with international law, then my friend, you're very naive. 

 

I think Putin's biggest challenge now would be to develop  a sustainable governance institution  robust enough to withstand enormous outside pressure and with an ability for a clean and smooth succession and transition. South Korea managed it well as a case study, they developed and progressed under a dictator and then transitioned into a functioning democracy without a lot of drama. However, geopolitics would mean there will be strong intent and resources poured in Russia to destabilize it internally like in Ukraine and countless other countries over the past few decades.

 

 

Once again, the issue is not that Russia is a democracy or not, or the govt is run like a mafia or anything, let's not insult each other's intelligence by pretending as such, the problem is Russia isnt bending the knee. I can understand where ccabal is coming from, but this has nothing to do with style of governance, you know it wont be hard enough to point out bff/own govts having worst record than Putin.

Edited by Shahenshah, 06 March 2015 - 06:34 PM.