57 replies to this topic

[Niels]

John McCain is a Naval Aviator. Defense is his business, and he would have gone the traditional route of working with our friends like the UK, France, Germany, Japan, South Korea, Israel, ect. Peace through strength. Either of these men would have been better than what we have had.

I'm just curious who you think negotiated the deal with Iran.

From the US State Department photo, I see the following:

Hailong Wu - People's Republic of China

Laurent Fabius - France

Frank-Walter Steinmeier - Germany

Federica Mogherini - European Union

Javad Zarif - Iran

[not captioned in photo] - Russia

Philip Hammond - United Kingdom

John Kerry - United States

 

Although not participating in the talks, the other governments on this list have responded:

FAVOR - South Korea

No official response - Japan (Ministry of Foreign Affairs website lists no statements on the deal)

OPPOSE - Israel

 

So from the list of traditional allies, we have 4 countries who participated in the negotiations or favor the announced framework, one no response, and one opposed.

[Lysistrata]

John McCain would have never pushed for this. This is the work of Barack Obama, Valerie Jarrett, and John Kerry. Have you ever looked into where Valarie Jarrett comes from? ... Iran. She's a lapdog to George Soros. Everything Barack Obama does right now is temporary, a new president comes in and reverses everything with a signature. That's why he's trying to complicate everything with the U.N., IRS, EPA, and artificially stacking the courts with liberal judges supplied by none other than his partner in crime Harry Ried, by killing the filibuster during their last year holding the Senate. They knew they would lose it, because he has never worked for the American people, only their own agenda that they were able to lie to and exploit impressionable voters. Harry Ried was recently asked in an interview with CNN if he regretted lying on the Senate floor about Mitt Romney and the Koch brothers... he said no... "Romney didn't win did he?" What an asshole. That's what Democrats do.

[Niels]

Have you ever looked into where Valarie Jarrett comes from? ... Iran.

 

Are we criticizing people over where they were born now?
From Wikipedia, with some emphasis:
"Jarrett was born in Shiraz, Iran, to American parents James E. Bowman and Barbara Taylor Bowman. ... Her father, a pathologist and geneticist, ran a hospital for children in Shiraz in 1956, as part of a program where American physicians and agricultural experts sought to help developing countries' health and farming efforts."

Do we also hate any other Americans who were born in places that, through no fault of their own, became politically different more than 20 years later (Iran was an ally in 1956)?  Or do we just hate people whose parents wanted to make the world a better place by helping kids in foreign countries?


If you have political criticisms of a person, pick a better reason for them, and focus on actual policy choices ... you know, the things that supposedly make you upset.

[DeathMerchant]

The victory in Vietnam and Iraq were strategic and solely militarily. Enemy combatants were wiped out and proved no more current threat. However, it was a hollow victory. Victory in Vietnam was achieved by killing and bombing the NVA enough to force them to the peace table. That's where the technicality part come sin because the war was won because of the racked up body count and the fact during the course of the war, the US never lost an engagement. But nevertheless, it was considered a hollow victory based on what happened in 1975.

[Lysistrata]

You showed me your hand. Those infamous words "through no fault of their own". Liberal speak giving blanket excuse, and absolving responsibility for anything that happens to come up. Where Jarrett is from explains where her sympathies lay, and her many connections that no one ever investigates. You want to know what Barack Obama is really about? Look into Valarie... she created him. Thank you for looking her up... and Adolf Hitler was born in Austria, through no fault of his own. He was still evil.

[onbekende]

"Look folks, my group of powermongering politicians and shady backroom financers is better then the current group of powermonering politicians and shady backroom financers"

 

90% of people don't care and vote for the least of all evil. The other 10% are so far up an ideologies butt they fail to see that 1 line of thinking is only ever the work of 1 person and not for the collective good of all.

[Lysistrata]

"Look folks, my group of powermongering politicians and shady backroom financers is better then the current group of powermonering politicians and shady backroom financers"

 

90% of people don't care and vote for the least of all evil. The other 10% are so far up an ideologies butt they fail to see that 1 line of thinking is only ever the work of 1 person and not for the collective good of all.

So everyone should remain stupid and just vote for the guy that lies the best. Barack Obama was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize on the assumption that he was the man that would bring world peace. Six years later the whole world is on fire, and the USA is everyone against everyone else. So much for "we're not red states and blue states... we're the United States". This guy has been the most polarizing, hate inspiring narcissist, to ever be elected President. We need a fixer and a world leader quick... and it ain't Hillary.

[onbekende]

You know what the US needs? Democracy. Real democracy. Not the plague/cholera devide you guys like to nurture so much. Which didn't start with Obama, neither did it get fixed well seeing all them reports of senate/congress gridlocks.

 

Come to belgium, we haven't gone into anarchy and we had no government for over 500 days. Come and learn what a compromise is, come and learn what it takes to listen to more then 2 parrots.

[Fox Fire]

The victory in Vietnam and Iraq were strategic and solely militarily. Enemy combatants were wiped out and proved no more current threat. However, it was a hollow victory. Victory in Vietnam was achieved by killing and bombing the NVA enough to force them to the peace table. That's where the technicality part come sin because the war was won because of the racked up body count and the fact during the course of the war, the US never lost an engagement. But nevertheless, it was considered a hollow victory based on what happened in 1975.

It wasn't a victory at all. Sure, we killed a shit ton of people, but that doesn't equal victory. Winning wars is not simply a matter of who can kill more people, as Vietnam proved. Wasting all those lives for absolutely nothing is what I would call a defeat.

[Road2Victory]

You know what the US needs? Democracy. Real democracy. Not the plague/cholera devide you guys like to nurture so much. Which didn't start with Obama, neither did it get fixed well seeing all them reports of senate/congress gridlocks.

 

Come to belgium, we haven't gone into anarchy and we had no government for over 500 days. Come and learn what a compromise is, come and learn what it takes to listen to more then 2 parrots.

They need the Greek version of democracy 

[onbekende]

 

You know what the US needs? Democracy. Real democracy. Not the plague/cholera devide you guys like to nurture so much. Which didn't start with Obama, neither did it get fixed well seeing all them reports of senate/congress gridlocks.

 

Come to belgium, we haven't gone into anarchy and we had no government for over 500 days. Come and learn what a compromise is, come and learn what it takes to listen to more then 2 parrots.

They need the Greek version of democracy 

 

everyone gets 3 pottery shards!

 

1 for naming the person to throw out

1 for naming the person to get in

1 for naming the person to get the next pottery shards!

[Road2Victory]

 

 

You know what the US needs? Democracy. Real democracy. Not the plague/cholera devide you guys like to nurture so much. Which didn't start with Obama, neither did it get fixed well seeing all them reports of senate/congress gridlocks.

 

Come to belgium, we haven't gone into anarchy and we had no government for over 500 days. Come and learn what a compromise is, come and learn what it takes to listen to more then 2 parrots.

They need the Greek version of democracy 

 

everyone gets 3 pottery shards!

 

1 for naming the person to throw out

1 for naming the person to get in

1 for naming the person to get the next pottery shards!

 

Socrates game done

[Lysistrata]

Hey Foxy, I read your piece on Libertarian Socialism and nope, Ron Paul is not that. There are a lot of "ism's" in there and many different versions, some of which make my stomach turn. You do know, nothing like that will ever occur here in the U.S. right? It's fantasy, and I hope you are only taking it as philosophy. You must be very unhappy with our government. I can see you in a couple decades as a tenured Professor at Berkeley, teaching Libertarian Socialism... locally adored, and nationally hated. I of course, could be dead or close to it by then. But I must tell you... I have had the greatest life. I should tell you about it sometime.

[Shahenshah]

The victory in Vietnam and Iraq were strategic and solely militarily. Enemy combatants were wiped out and proved no more current threat. However, it was a hollow victory. Victory in Vietnam was achieved by killing and bombing the NVA enough to force them to the peace table. That's where the technicality part come sin because the war was won because of the racked up body count and the fact during the course of the war, the US never lost an engagement. But nevertheless, it was considered a hollow victory based on what happened in 1975.

Were the political goals achieved in Vietnam? I.e. to prevent the rise of communism? I don't think so, war is another tool to achieve political aims of a nation state. At the end of the day, Vietcong was willing to sacrifice more for their goals, US wasn't and they knew exactly that the weakness of US wasn't its military, but the lack of willingness of the electorate to digest rising casualties even if they were peanuts compared to Vietcong itself.

You don't win or loose based on technicality, but rather if the political objective was achieved or not. But that is my personal opinion.


About Iraq, to be honest, I have not figured out what that was about, what the goals were etc, remember, the soldiers were greeted by flowers, sent off by bombs, something went really really wrong in between.

Edit:
Don't leave Afghanistan completely, it'll end up worst than Iraq.

Edited by Shahenshah, 06 April 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Fox Fire]

Hey Foxy, I read your piece on Libertarian Socialism and nope, Ron Paul is not that. There are a lot of "ism's" in there and many different versions, some of which make my stomach turn. You do know, nothing like that will ever occur here in the U.S. right? It's fantasy, and I hope you are only taking it as philosophy. You must be very unhappy with our government. I can see you in a couple decades as a tenured Professor at Berkeley, teaching Libertarian Socialism... locally adored, and nationally hated. I of course, could be dead or close to it by then. But I must tell you... I have had the greatest life. I should tell you about it sometime.

I'm well aware. There aren't many Americans who share my political views, though I'm not liberal one every subject. Gun rights for example, I'm more in favor of than most Americans.

[Niels]

You showed me your hand. Those infamous words "through no fault of their own".

 

Sigh.

Please explain how being born in Shiraz in 1956, and moving to the UK in 1961 made her or her family responsible for the 1979 Iranian Revolution.

 

That is what I meant by "through no fault of their own", because you would not be upset over her personal origin if the Shah's family was still running the country.

[Lysistrata]

Valerie Jarrett is Senior Advisor to Barack Obama, the worst President ever, (it was really hard to beat Jimmy Carter). I don't care if she was born in San Antonio, Texas and her parents owned a gun store. She is personally responsible for every wrong thing this man has done to my country, and everything he has not done to help it. It's not where she was born that upsets me... it's what she has done.

 

Barack Obama doesn't know what moves the USA. I heard him complaining once that he "never had his megaphone moment". He's talking about when George W. was not really embraced as President until he stood on that rubble after 9/11 and did the "we hear you" speech. One instance that Obama had that would make the country love him was with Andrew Tahmooressi, an American Vet that lost his way, ended up on the Mexican side of the border, and had 3 legally owned guns in his car. He was arrested and sat in a Mexican prison for 214 days, before Greta Van Sustren and Montel Williams created enough pressure to get him released. Stupid Obama, with one phone call, could have stuck up for his soldier and got him the hell out of there. But no, didn't lift a finger.

[Niels]

Valerie Jarrett is Senior Advisor to Barack Obama, the worst President ever, (it was really hard to beat Jimmy Carter). I don't care if she was born in San Antonio, Texas and her parents owned a gun store. She is personally responsible for every wrong thing this man has done to my country, and everything he has not done to help it. It's not where she was born that upsets me... it's what she has done.

 

That's fine - it was just really strange to bring up where she was born as if it was actually important regarding your disagreements with her political actions.

 

Even if we subscribed to the notion that people were inherently biased in favor of where they lived while 0-4 years old, it would have been subtle support for Iran as it existed under the Pahlavi dynasty (i.e. the place where women's suffrage and non-Muslim rights were introduced over the complaints of the imams, where the Ayatollah Khomenei was exiled from for 15 years, and the Shia clergy had been stripped of their control over family law), which is to say, not modern Iran.