57 replies to this topic

[emudevelopment]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/world/iran-nuclear-talks/

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Hmmmm

[Lysistrata]

Obama wants something to call an accomplishment and Kerry wants to run for President again.

They will lick Ayatollah nut-sack and guaranty the destruction of Israel to get that.

A deal will be made and there will be hell to pay... both here and there.

Democrats are like a Slinky. Good for nothing, but it's still fun to push them down a flight of stairs.

[Fox Fire]

Nuclear power is a Pandoras Box. You can't keep it out of peoples hands for long.

I personally don't care because I'm 99% sure Iran is not going to nuke anyone. I'm more afraid of Pakistan or NK with nukes, but nobody seems to care about that.

[ccabal86]

Finally a positive development in a LONG time

[onbekende]

if Iran needed something nuked, they would have stolen one from the Pakistans...

[Road2Victory]

.........

[Perez]

I personally don't see any harm having this agreement with them. The regulations implied in the deal are very strict.  This is a benefit for us and for them.

[Lysistrata]

Iranians lie about everything and never keep their word. The deal is good for them if they get the sanctions dropped, and bad for us because it's really hard to get the sanctions imposed. Obama just wants to screw everything up like he's been doing for 6 years now. Everyday it's some new way of screwing things up. They want nukes, maybe we should just send some over? Japan has never wanted anything to do with them, and everyone knows why.

[Shahenshah]

Finally a positive development in a LONG time

 

Agreed. 

 

But I think in long-run, Iran will somehow get screwed. There's alot of lobby money involved and it's conditional on bending over for outside parties and wage a war on their behalf. You can always count on politicians to sell your best interests for the highest bid.

 

Nukes are the only sure-shot way of making sure you don't get attacked by someone bigger and stronger than you. You develop the means to execute the MAD scenario if it comes to that and make them believe in those capabilities. A good deterrence always works. 

 

With the growing trend of illegal interventions, occupations and threats by global and regional hegemonies, it's imperative that the little guys develop the necessary means to defend themselves and there's only one sure thing that can do it, a nice little nuke with multi-platform capabilities based on land, sea, air and Space (coming soon?) to guarantee a MAD scenario. That is called deterrence and that is the name of the game. 

Edited by Shahenshah, 03 April 2015 - 02:15 AM.

[Keepitred]

I personally don't see any harm having this agreement with them. The regulations implied in the deal are very strict. This is a benefit for us and for them.

Finally a positive development in a LONG time

Agreed.

But I think in long-run, Iran will somehow get screwed. There's alot of lobby money involved and it's conditional on bending over for outside parties and wage a war on their behalf. You can always count on politicians to sell your best interests for the highest bid.

Nukes are the only sure-shot way of making sure you don't get attacked by someone bigger and stronger than you. You develop the means to execute the MAD scenario if it comes to that and make them believe in those capabilities. A good deterrence always works.

With the growing trend of illegal interventions, occupations and threats by global and regional hegemonies, it's imperative that the little guys develop the necessary means to defend themselves and there's only one sure thing that can do it, a nice little nuke with multi-platform capabilities based on land, sea, air and Space (coming soon?) to guarantee a MAD scenario. That is called deterrence and that is the name of the game.

Agreed. Some people think Iran's nuclear program is justified, it has Pakistan to the east, Israel to the west, and Russia to the north. As a person with mainly Persian ancestry living in the US myself I hear a LOT about this every day. In my opinion sanctions DO work if you want to affects a country's economic position, but it mainly dosent work on trying to dynastically change a country like on Cuba. Venezuela still has these same problems.

[Owney]

Obama wants something to call an accomplishment and Kerry wants to run for President again.

They will lick Ayatollah nut-sack and guaranty the destruction of Israel to get that.

A deal will be made and there will be hell to pay... both here and there.

Democrats are like a Slinky. Good for nothing, but it's still fun to push them down a flight of stairs.

This won't guarantee the destruction of Israel, I know everyone thinks Iran wants to nuke Israel because of their nutbag previous President and his outrageous comment, but let's be real. Israel has nukes, they're backed by the US, nobody is really going to really attempt to "destroy" them, or they would have done it already imo.

[emudevelopment]

 

I personally don't see any harm having this agreement with them. The regulations implied in the deal are very strict. This is a benefit for us and for them.

 

Finally a positive development in a LONG time
 

Agreed.

But I think in long-run, Iran will somehow get screwed. There's alot of lobby money involved and it's conditional on bending over for outside parties and wage a war on their behalf. You can always count on politicians to sell your best interests for the highest bid.

Nukes are the only sure-shot way of making sure you don't get attacked by someone bigger and stronger than you. You develop the means to execute the MAD scenario if it comes to that and make them believe in those capabilities. A good deterrence always works.

With the growing trend of illegal interventions, occupations and threats by global and regional hegemonies, it's imperative that the little guys develop the necessary means to defend themselves and there's only one sure thing that can do it, a nice little nuke with multi-platform capabilities based on land, sea, air and Space (coming soon?) to guarantee a MAD scenario. That is called deterrence and that is the name of the game.

Agreed. Some people think Iran's nuclear program is justified, it has Pakistan to the east, Israel to the west, and Russia to the north. As a person with mainly Persian ancestry living in the US myself I hear a LOT about this every day. In my opinion sanctions DO work if you want to affects a country's economic position, but it mainly dosent work on trying to dynastically change a country like on Cuba. Venezuela still has these same problems.

 

Sanctions are a effective punishment but are merely a deterrent. Once you play the sanctions card and let it sit for years it is no longer a deterrent and rather a  incentive. Therefore the relieving of international sanctions will aid a fledling Iranian economy it cetainly is not enough to be a even trade. Heres a quick sum up of the deal: We are going to allow Iran to develop all the infrastructure nessecary for a nuclear weapon and allow them to enrich the materials nessecary so they can use nuclear energy to 'power' their cities despite them being one of the largest exporters of oil in the world... But we are going to stop them from getting the last pieace of the puzzle for nukes and only the last bit and god forbid they get it but dont worry we will send inspectors in to instrusively inspect the facilities that they tell us could make nukes. Then after this bit of the deal we will reward them for agreeing to these terms by improving their states economy and allowing them to deal arms..... Sound like a fair trade to you?

 

Obama wants something to call an accomplishment and Kerry wants to run for President again.

They will lick Ayatollah nut-sack and guaranty the destruction of Israel to get that.

A deal will be made and there will be hell to pay... both here and there.

Democrats are like a Slinky. Good for nothing, but it's still fun to push them down a flight of stairs.

This won't guarantee the destruction of Israel, I know everyone thinks Iran wants to nuke Israel because of their nutbag previous President and his outrageous comment, but let's be real. Israel has nukes, they're backed by the US, nobody is really going to really attempt to "destroy" them, or they would have done it already imo.

 

They have actually given Hamas weapons to fight against Isrealis

[DeathMerchant]

So current news sources are stating the U.S. wimped out and agreed to better Iranian terms. Largely because Kerry wanted a deal.

 

I definitely fear a Middle East nuclear arms race. If it appears Iran has the capability of one day acquiring nuclear weapons, you can sure bet that North Korea will share technology on ballistic missiles. Mate the two together and you have some rather crude Intercontinental Nuclear Missiles. Saudi Arabia will probably begin development on their own program (with likely assistance from Pakistan). Israel may attempt to increase its stockpile (assuming of course the rumors of them possessing nuclear weapons are true.) And the Iron Dome Anti Missile Shield would be increased.

 

Even if Iran allows International Inspectors in the country, they have a huge network of underground bunkers and facilities. All of these can't be known to the International Community. So it wouldn't be extremely difficult for Iran to secretly be subverting a portion of its nuclear stockpile to classified facilities. Some of these sites are reportedly beyond the reach capabilities of U.S. Bunker Busters. Although the U.S. has upgraded some Bunker Busters to hit even deeper, more fortified targets.

 

I doubt Iran would be stupid enough to actually use nuclear technology as a weapon, for fear of repercussions. But what if that technology/materials ends up in the hands of unstable organizations or terrorist factions? Whether covertly given to them or a false flag security breach? Now that would be an incredibly scary event.

[Third King]

 

Finally a positive development in a LONG time

 

Agreed. 

 

But I think in long-run, Iran will somehow get screwed. There's alot of lobby money involved and it's conditional on bending over for outside parties and wage a war on their behalf. You can always count on politicians to sell your best interests for the highest bid.

 

Nukes are the only sure-shot way of making sure you don't get attacked by someone bigger and stronger than you. You develop the means to execute the MAD scenario if it comes to that and make them believe in those capabilities. A good deterrence always works. 

 

With the growing trend of illegal interventions, occupations and threats by global and regional hegemonies, it's imperative that the little guys develop the necessary means to defend themselves and there's only one sure thing that can do it, a nice little nuke with multi-platform capabilities based on land, sea, air and Space (coming soon?) to guarantee a MAD scenario. That is called deterrence and that is the name of the game. 

 

 

Do you mean to force a MAD scenario between Iran and similarly equipped nations, or between Iran and the US?

[emudevelopment]

He probably means Isreal.

[Lysistrata]

I'm glad you said something TK because Shah has admitted what every Iranian has been denying. They are, and have always been, developing nuclear weapons. The word "deterrence" can hardly be mentioned with a straight face. Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism, and there is no shortage of death-wish lunatics wanting to kill themselves in favor of the biggest boom. What Iran wants is their money back. They have no intention of honoring any agreement, and will laugh all the way to the podeum and scream death to America even louder. Any nation that threatens the United States should be crushed. Just start at one end, and a week later leave the other end. Leave behind smoldering rubble and crying widows. The only way to peace is fear of war.

 

Oh did I forget to mention... in political circles, I'm known as a hawk. Doves usually get eaten.

[emudevelopment]

Lystrata, what makes Iran fundamentally different from Isreal in their possession of nukes? You could always use the Hamas example but: http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/iran-pre-purim-stunt-israel-trains-isis-terrorists-in-sinai/2015/02/22/

[Lysistrata]

Okay listen carefully... Israel is our friend. Iran is not. Fundamental enough?

Are you trying to make a "fairness" arguement? I myself feel much better with advantage.

[Niels]

The thing about nuclear weapons is that they're fairly easy to make, as can be seen by the fact that 1940s technology allowed it, and even a 17 y.o. boy scout was able to assemble a sub-critical breeder reactor in his backyard once:

http://harpers.org/archive/1998/11/the-radioactive-boy-scout/

 

Ultimately, the US was unable to prevent the USSR or China from developing nuclear weapons (the latter able to do so despite the massive economic disruptions of the Great Leap Forwrd).  The world was unable to prevent Pakistan or India from making their own, despite knowing that they hate each other as well.  Iran may make speeches about wanting to destroy Israel, and fund groups that attack it, but Pakistan and India have actually gone to war with one another - several times now.

Even the hated and internationally sanctioned Apartheid regime in South Africa was able to make their own:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

 

And of course, North Korea, despite a non-functioning economy, sanctions by most of the world, and other hardships, has almost been able to do so too.

Ultimately, it seems that the international community doesn't have the power to prevent countries from developing nuclear weapons.  Maybe that means the best we can do are treaties that try to have countries use atomic power for peaceful purposes ... I don't know.

[Shahenshah]

I'm glad you said something TK because Shah has admitted what every Iranian has been denying. They are, and have always been, developing nuclear weapons. The word "deterrence" can hardly be mentioned with a straight face. Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism, and there is no shortage of death-wish lunatics wanting to kill themselves in favor of the biggest boom. What Iran wants is their money back. They have no intention of honoring any agreement, and will laugh all the way to the podeum and scream death to America even louder. Any nation that threatens the United States should be crushed. Just start at one end, and a week later leave the other end. Leave behind smoldering rubble and crying widows. The only way to peace is fear of war.

Oh did I forget to mention... in political circles, I'm known as a hawk. Doves usually get eaten.

I did not admit what Iran is denying, I have nothing to admit. I just said Iran has taken a bad deal, they have put all their cards on the table, they are at the mercy of people they signed with, they have no leverage. Iran's nuclear and military infrastructure can be wiped out within a week if US acts. But unlike Bush et al, I do not think Obama wishes to sacrifice more than trillion dollars, thousands of lives with nothing to show for it. I think in the end this is probably one of the better outcome.

Regarding Iran being sponsor of terror, I think it will take them a century to match what republicans achieved in a decade.

Finally a positive development in a LONG time

Agreed.

But I think in long-run, Iran will somehow get screwed. There's alot of lobby money involved and it's conditional on bending over for outside parties and wage a war on their behalf. You can always count on politicians to sell your best interests for the highest bid.

Nukes are the only sure-shot way of making sure you don't get attacked by someone bigger and stronger than you. You develop the means to execute the MAD scenario if it comes to that and make them believe in those capabilities. A good deterrence always works.

With the growing trend of illegal interventions, occupations and threats by global and regional hegemonies, it's imperative that the little guys develop the necessary means to defend themselves and there's only one sure thing that can do it, a nice little nuke with multi-platform capabilities based on land, sea, air and Space (coming soon?) to guarantee a MAD scenario. That is called deterrence and that is the name of the game.

Do you mean to force a MAD scenario between Iran and similarly equipped nations, or between Iran and the US?

MAD as a deterrence is useful for the little guy. I do not think Iran can enforce that scenario on US. Even if they had the bombs, they had no means to deliver.

Regarding Israel, Israel is not getting nuked, nuking Israel would mean nuking Palestine.

Regarding Pakistan and India, they can enforce MAD on each other, so the deterrence is there. Similarly NK can enforce such scenario probably with SK, hence, there is deterrence.

Regarding the others in club, well they can enforce MAD scenario on any of their strategic rivals.

Only exception is Israel, which has the bomb and its rivals have none.

Edited by Shahenshah, 03 April 2015 - 05:41 PM.