So last month an unarmed man was shot by police near where I live. Given all the talk about police brutality lately, initially you would think "Great. Cops being dicks again." But then they released the video and my thoughts are simply "wat?"

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv8wWGUl1N8

 

A few things to note:

 

• He was unarmed.
• He was drunk.
• He survived.
• He was stopped after cops received a domestic violence call. (He beat his pregnant girlfriend and drove off I guess).
• He claims he was trying to throw his keys to the police when they shot him.
• You can't really hear what he's saying in the video, but he's more or less talking crap to the cops, saying things like "You guys aint got shit," etc.

 

I just can't figure out if he was trying to kill himself or if he was just being a complete drunk idiot and didn't think they would shoot. But he definitely wasn't throwing any keys. Good luck trying to take that to court. No charges have been filed last I heard.

if he was drunk, we was a drunken fool.

 

Now the question is, does these kind of video's go national to show that cops also do the work properly?

This is proper work? Americans are idiots.

Literally the dumbest country ever. 

 

But it's easy for me to speak since I'm European and we don't usually give morons guns so stupid shit like this doesn't happen.

But that's more of a point against America as well. 

fools like him deserve to get shot.

if he was drunk, we was a drunken fool.

 

Now the question is, does these kind of video's go national to show that cops also do the work properly?

Not usually. All the American media is focused on unjustified shootings.

 

 

This is proper work? Americans are idiots.

Literally the dumbest country ever. 

 

But it's easy for me to speak since I'm European and we don't usually give morons guns so stupid shit like this doesn't happen.

But that's more of a point against America as well. 

I'd say it's proper work. They were pretty nice with that guy. And around this area, gun laws are almost non-existent and tons of people own guns, so it was safe for them to assume he probably had one, which he didn't. But with that being said, shootings are pretty rare in this area.

plus if the fool had shown his hands as they repeatidly asked for over 2 min, nothing bad would have happended.

At least the idiot is still alive.

Yeah, pretty much an idiot that should be dead. This video also shows the open hostility that police deal with on a daily basis. Even when a suspect is unarmed, many police killings happen with the officer's own gun. A man with a knife is more dangerous within 20 feet than a man with a gun, because using a knife is instinctual while a gun requires higher brain processes that take longer to focus. Don't bleeding heart for criminals or "thugs" that like to wag their dicks at police officers. A real thug speaks softly so the officer doesn't search his car. There's a reason it's called "being cool" and that's because testosterone-laden emotion has no part in it.

 

I'm not an expert on intercontinental intelligence, but most people try to see the U.S. as a single country, when its breadth and history of immigration gives it multiple cultures and characteristics. Europe doesn't deal with the sheer wave of uneducated immigrants that the U.S. has to process, plus it has its own hooligan culture among the lower classes that would do the same thing depicted in this video. These immigrants tend to drag lower-classes to their level, including those that have no excuse for acting this way.

 

This however, does not change my views on the militarization of police (bad) and the drug war (also bad). Both of those simply encourage bad behavior on the law enforcement side. I'd actually rather see an enforced hand-to-hand combat training for police, since that generally leaves suspects alive if you train correctly.

Nothing new, same old America yo

If this is ok then I wonder why people are bitching about cops shooting black people given there is also probable cause. 

Either shut the fuck up about police brutality or take an actual fucking stand, I don't want to hear bullshit from Americans just looking to complain and then turning the other cheek or taking equally stupid view regarding police brutality. 

If this is ok then I wonder why people are bitching about cops shooting black people given there is also probable cause. 

Either shut the fuck up about police brutality or take an actual fucking stand, I don't want to hear bullshit from Americans just looking to complain and then turning the other cheek or taking equally stupid view regarding police brutality. 

There's a big difference between the incident in the OP and say this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJus8tU6NCE

 

The guy in the OP was literally asking to be shot without actually saying "shoot me." The guy in this other video however did nothing wrong and was murdered. The cop had no legal justification for trying to pull him out of the car, and he certainly didn't have a reason to shoot him in the face.

It's cases like that which are absurd and happen too often.

I can't really see what the black guy was doing, but it clearly wasn't a good thing idea on his part much like the guy in the OP.

Ultimately these two cases have the same thing in common "trigger happy" cops.

As for the headshot, it was the most visible area and the cop seemed to be in a rush so I can't really blame him and the guy had no license.

I can't really see what the black guy was doing, but it clearly wasn't a good thing idea on his part much like the guy in the OP.

Ultimately these two cases have the same thing in common "trigger happy" cops.

As for the headshot, it was the most visible area and the cop seemed to be in a rush so I can't really blame him and the guy had no license.

The guy was also carrying a bunch of pot, but legally speaking, the officer was entirely in the wrong and now he's being charged with murder.

The cops in the OP weren't trigger happy, they spent over 2 minutes telling him to show his hands and when he did, he was obviously pretending to point a gun at them. Any person would have shot him in that situation. 

It's possible that we have a difference of agreement on whether it is ever justified to kill someone. I think that anyone, cop or civilian, has a right to defend themselves with lethal force if they think their life is in danger. Police officers have a further duty to protect the lives of others, as well. The big question is on what constitutes self-defense. It's also possible to have a scenario when two different people shoot each other but both legitimately believe they are acting in their own defense. Perception is a tricky thing, especially in short time periods.

 

As Fox Fire stated, the OP shows a legitimate use of force. Why? The man brings his hands out into a classic 3-point stance that a trained gunman would use to shoot. In the half-second the cops are given to make their decision, it is impossible for them to see small details, like whether the man actually has a gun or not. What they can see and react to is the man's larger motions, which indicate he is going to shoot them. If they waited to be certain about a gun, the guy could have shot all of them already.

 

The second video is not quite as black-and-white (a car can be a lethal weapon as well and the man is obviously about to drive off before the shot occurs), but the officer had non-lethal options that he could have taken rather shooting the suspect in the face. It's possible the officer had intended to reach for mace or a taser, similar to the officer in California who shot a handcuffed suspect. That's something his superiors and he will have to deal with. The officer also shows a lack of control in the situation by not affirming to the guy that he is not under arrest (officers can lie to civilians despite what TV and the movies say) and by not getting out his mace before attempting to open the door. It might've ended in a similar fashion, but at least the officer would not have ended someone's life over a suspended license.

 

Officers all need to learn de-escalation techniques to reduce the fear and anger that results in these sorts of reactions by suspects. I have convinced an angry, tinfoil-hat landowner to let me on his property despite doing work for the government (which was going to take some of his property) and have verbally steered off a potential mugger on a dark and isolated street. It is possible to control another person's emotions and actions through your own behavior. It's called "keeping cool" and officers need more training in it. They are the professional in the situation and should act like it.

 

This sort of training would be far more valuable than the millions of dollars flushed into SWAT and other programs that encourage police to act like a paramilitary force that shoots at the first provocation. Sadly, the U.S. has lots of spare military hardware that police need training to use properly, which takes away from more legitimate programs.

They shot like half a dozen times, if that's not trigger happy then... well maybe not to Americans.

As for the second video,  illegally stopping the guy isn't exactly the point I was chatting about which is what you're focusing on and that seems to be the main reason this cop was charged with murder since that supposedly makes everything else wrong.

 

But ignoring that, everything was completely justified because ultimately the black guy was an idiot as well and got himself killed.  

They shot like half a dozen times, if that's not trigger happy then... well maybe not to Americans.

As for the second video,  illegally stopping the guy isn't exactly the point I was chatting about which is what you're focusing on and that seems to be the main reason this cop was charged with murder since that supposedly makes everything else wrong.

 

But ignoring that, everything was completely justified because ultimately the black guy was an idiot as well and got himself killed.  

If someone went to shoot me in a standoff like that, I would probably empty my magazine into them. Or at least keep shooting until they stop moving. That's not trigger happy, it's just not taking the chance of getting shot. I'm certainly not just going to shoot once and hope that stops the person from shooting at me.

Honestly, I think DuBose had every intention of driving off from the start. I think he was trying to get the cop to go back to his car and run his name to give him a chance to take off. But the shooting was still illegal. 

They shot like half a dozen times, if that's not trigger happy then... well maybe not to Americans.

As for the second video,  illegally stopping the guy isn't exactly the point I was chatting about which is what you're focusing on and that seems to be the main reason this cop was charged with murder since that supposedly makes everything else wrong.

 

But ignoring that, everything was completely justified because ultimately the black guy was an idiot as well and got himself killed.  

If you have the right to shoot once, you have the right to shoot a dozen times. This is not the movies and a single gunshot wound does not send someone into a dramatic seizure. An angry, or drunk, or drug-addled person can shoot you no matter how many holes are in them, depending on the location of the hole. The typical trained reaction is to squeeze the trigger until well past the point that the gun runs dry. The more holes in the suspect, the more likely you've prevented them from shooting you or someone you care about.

 

Disregarding the reason for the stop in the second video, the officer had better ways to handle the entire encounter, but he chose the testosterone-laden power trip. He did not even ask the suspect to exit the car, and just went straight for the door. He did everything possible to ratchet up that guy's adrenaline level, and then acted surprised when it sparked a fight-or-flight reaction. If you are dealing with someone angry or distrustful, you want to wind down their adrenaline, despite your own body's adrenaline trying to get a similar reaction out of you. That is, unless you intend to drive them into irrational behavior. Cops should never encourage irrational behavior on the street (in the interrogation room is another story).

5 fat policemen for one guy?

 

lolamerica

5 fat policemen for one guy?

 

lolamerica

That's actually bad in Idaho in particular. Mostly because nothing ever happens in this lame ass state, so if something goes down, every cop in the area shows up to see whats going on.

 

5 fat policemen for one guy?

 

lolamerica

That's actually bad in Idaho in particular. Mostly because nothing ever happens in this lame ass state, so if something goes down, every cop in the area shows up to see whats going on.

 

More police generally means a better outcome for a suspect. An unarmed suspect is far more likely to be shot by a single policeman than multiple policemen. A single policeman has to worry if he has enough physical strength to subdue a suspect. Multiple don't.

 

If I'm going to be arrested, feel free to use as many policemen as is necessary to keep me from getting shot. It's like the old joke about inviting teetotalling Baptists to a party. You always want at least two, because one will drink all your beer.

 

 

5 fat policemen for one guy?

 

lolamerica

That's actually bad in Idaho in particular. Mostly because nothing ever happens in this lame ass state, so if something goes down, every cop in the area shows up to see whats going on.

 

More police generally means a better outcome for a suspect. An unarmed suspect is far more likely to be shot by a single policeman than multiple policemen. A single policeman has to worry if he has enough physical strength to subdue a suspect. Multiple don't.

 

If I'm going to be arrested, feel free to use as many policemen as is necessary to keep me from getting shot. It's like the old joke about inviting teetotalling Baptists to a party. You always want at least two, because one will drink all your beer.

 

are we watching the same video?

 

it looked like all 5 of them fired at least 2 shots each

 

They shot like half a dozen times, if that's not trigger happy then... well maybe not to Americans.

As for the second video,  illegally stopping the guy isn't exactly the point I was chatting about which is what you're focusing on and that seems to be the main reason this cop was charged with murder since that supposedly makes everything else wrong.

 

But ignoring that, everything was completely justified because ultimately the black guy was an idiot as well and got himself killed.  

If you have the right to shoot once, you have the right to shoot a dozen times. This is not the movies and a single gunshot wound does not send someone into a dramatic seizure. An angry, or drunk, or drug-addled person can shoot you no matter how many holes are in them, depending on the location of the hole. The typical trained reaction is to squeeze the trigger until well past the point that the gun runs dry. The more holes in the suspect, the more likely you've prevented them from shooting you or someone you care about.

 

Disregarding the reason for the stop in the second video, the officer had better ways to handle the entire encounter, but he chose the testosterone-laden power trip. He did not even ask the suspect to exit the car, and just went straight for the door. He did everything possible to ratchet up that guy's adrenaline level, and then acted surprised when it sparked a fight-or-flight reaction. If you are dealing with someone angry or distrustful, you want to wind down their adrenaline, despite your own body's adrenaline trying to get a similar reaction out of you. That is, unless you intend to drive them into irrational behavior. Cops should never encourage irrational behavior on the street (in the interrogation room is another story).

 

 

Well my point would be they could have had non lethal ways to take down both guys in both videos.

Most of the shots seemed to miss anyway so I suppose it wasn't too bad for the guy but the attitude I'm getting from you guys is that it is ok to shoot first and ask questions later.

The guy in the second video was just unlucky that he got charged for murder because he had no reason to stop him.

Making up excuses for the guy in the second video is strange since he also brought being gunned down on himself, you say the guy should be dead for being an idiot in the first video and I think the same true for the second guy and well he is dead. 

 

I can only hope the cop isn't convicted because it's not his fault, he's getting mixed messages from all directions. Made a mistake stopping the guy but by the logic Americans have regarding shooting people he was totally justified to shoot him.

 

 

They shot like half a dozen times, if that's not trigger happy then... well maybe not to Americans.

As for the second video,  illegally stopping the guy isn't exactly the point I was chatting about which is what you're focusing on and that seems to be the main reason this cop was charged with murder since that supposedly makes everything else wrong.

 

But ignoring that, everything was completely justified because ultimately the black guy was an idiot as well and got himself killed.  

If you have the right to shoot once, you have the right to shoot a dozen times. This is not the movies and a single gunshot wound does not send someone into a dramatic seizure. An angry, or drunk, or drug-addled person can shoot you no matter how many holes are in them, depending on the location of the hole. The typical trained reaction is to squeeze the trigger until well past the point that the gun runs dry. The more holes in the suspect, the more likely you've prevented them from shooting you or someone you care about.

 

Disregarding the reason for the stop in the second video, the officer had better ways to handle the entire encounter, but he chose the testosterone-laden power trip. He did not even ask the suspect to exit the car, and just went straight for the door. He did everything possible to ratchet up that guy's adrenaline level, and then acted surprised when it sparked a fight-or-flight reaction. If you are dealing with someone angry or distrustful, you want to wind down their adrenaline, despite your own body's adrenaline trying to get a similar reaction out of you. That is, unless you intend to drive them into irrational behavior. Cops should never encourage irrational behavior on the street (in the interrogation room is another story).

 

 

Well my point would be they could have had non lethal ways to take down both guys in both videos.

Most of the shots seemed to miss anyway so I suppose it wasn't too bad for the guy but the attitude I'm getting from you guys is that it is ok to shoot first and ask questions later.

The guy in the second video was just unlucky that he got charged for murder because he had no reason to stop him.

Making up excuses for the guy in the second video is strange since he also brought being gunned down on himself, you say the guy should be dead for being an idiot in the first video and I think the same true for the second guy and well he is dead. 

 

I can only hope the cop isn't convicted because it's not his fault, he's getting mixed messages from all directions. Made a mistake stopping the guy but by the logic Americans have regarding shooting people he was totally justified to shoot him.

 

key phrase here is American logic

First things first. If you don't live in the U.S.A., then you have nothing to worry about. Your opinions about this are just that, and that's what it's worth. This is nothing new. The only reason these situations are continually brought up now is wherever you go there is a camera. You only see the ones that advance someone's political agenda.

 

In 2008 the U.S.A. elected the very first half black President. Just about every black American voted for him. They were promised "change", but they never asked what kind of change, or what the definition of change was. They thought they were getting a man that was going to make everything wonderful for them, but things got worse. This President had more important things to do. I can go into the things that were more important, but it's too much and very off topic.

 

So they are running out of time with their black President. His time is running out, and the closer it gets, the louder they will scream. The "Black Lives Matter" people are the same people you saw during the Occupy Wall Street circus. It's not about black lives at all... it's about Capitalism, and just another wedge issue that they will use to try to anger people. A race war would be just the thing to create enough chaos to divide the country enough to hopefully, once and for all, break our economy. These people will stop at nothing to destroy people that have more stuff than they do.

 

Law enforcement do what they are trained to do. We do the best we can to evaluate and train them for the very hard job we expect them to do. Nothing is ever perfect and mistakes are made. We have to deal with them case by case, and make changes as we go along... but there are more black people in prison because they do more crime. It's as simple as that. It's not a conspiracy.

 

Oh yes, the OP video... that guy wanted the cops to shoot him. He played like he had a gun and moved like he was gonna use it.

 

 

 

5 fat policemen for one guy?

 

lolamerica

That's actually bad in Idaho in particular. Mostly because nothing ever happens in this lame ass state, so if something goes down, every cop in the area shows up to see whats going on.

 

More police generally means a better outcome for a suspect. An unarmed suspect is far more likely to be shot by a single policeman than multiple policemen. A single policeman has to worry if he has enough physical strength to subdue a suspect. Multiple don't.

 

If I'm going to be arrested, feel free to use as many policemen as is necessary to keep me from getting shot. It's like the old joke about inviting teetotalling Baptists to a party. You always want at least two, because one will drink all your beer.

 

are we watching the same video?

 

it looked like all 5 of them fired at least 2 shots each

 

Fuck yeah. They completely unloaded on his ass and only shot him 4 times. 

Regardless, I and even you, would do the same. 

 

 

They shot like half a dozen times, if that's not trigger happy then... well maybe not to Americans.

As for the second video,  illegally stopping the guy isn't exactly the point I was chatting about which is what you're focusing on and that seems to be the main reason this cop was charged with murder since that supposedly makes everything else wrong.

 

But ignoring that, everything was completely justified because ultimately the black guy was an idiot as well and got himself killed.  

If you have the right to shoot once, you have the right to shoot a dozen times. This is not the movies and a single gunshot wound does not send someone into a dramatic seizure. An angry, or drunk, or drug-addled person can shoot you no matter how many holes are in them, depending on the location of the hole. The typical trained reaction is to squeeze the trigger until well past the point that the gun runs dry. The more holes in the suspect, the more likely you've prevented them from shooting you or someone you care about.

 

Disregarding the reason for the stop in the second video, the officer had better ways to handle the entire encounter, but he chose the testosterone-laden power trip. He did not even ask the suspect to exit the car, and just went straight for the door. He did everything possible to ratchet up that guy's adrenaline level, and then acted surprised when it sparked a fight-or-flight reaction. If you are dealing with someone angry or distrustful, you want to wind down their adrenaline, despite your own body's adrenaline trying to get a similar reaction out of you. That is, unless you intend to drive them into irrational behavior. Cops should never encourage irrational behavior on the street (in the interrogation room is another story).

 

 

Well my point would be they could have had non lethal ways to take down both guys in both videos.

Most of the shots seemed to miss anyway so I suppose it wasn't too bad for the guy but the attitude I'm getting from you guys is that it is ok to shoot first and ask questions later.

The guy in the second video was just unlucky that he got charged for murder because he had no reason to stop him.

Making up excuses for the guy in the second video is strange since he also brought being gunned down on himself, you say the guy should be dead for being an idiot in the first video and I think the same true for the second guy and well he is dead. 

 

I can only hope the cop isn't convicted because it's not his fault, he's getting mixed messages from all directions. Made a mistake stopping the guy but by the logic Americans have regarding shooting people he was totally justified to shoot him.

 

Alright, I'd like to point out that the guy in the OP was shot with a tazer. In fact, I think the tazer hit him before any bullets did, and that is why he suddenly tensed up and dropped (but they all opened fire at once so...). Regardless, if you were the cop in that situation, are you really going to rely on a tazer to stop a (possible) handgun? 

I wouldn't, unless I had no choice. But if I had the choice to use lethal force to stop lethal force from stopping me, it's going to happen. I actually just drove right past the location that film took place tonight and although I don't know the guy, you really can't deny when watching the video that nothing less than lethal force was qualified. 

I was seriously surprised at how calm those cops were with him, and he responded by pretending to aim a gun at them while running at them. They didn't shoot first and ask questions later. They did what any intelligent person would have done. They even looked him up once they stopped him nd were calling him by name. They did what they were trained to do by the book. They gave him every fair chance in the world for 3 minutes straight. His shooting is entirely his own fault. 

He was stopped by lethal force instantly in a town where gun regulation almost doesn't exist. It's quite literally asking to be killed. That stupid ass is lucky to be alive.

 

As for the second video.

Say I come to your house for a small party one day. I don't like the way one of your friends is behaving so I start asking him questions. He starts to walk aw- Oops. I shot him in the face. But it was justified because I was stressed out. 

 

No. We have laws. And those laws apply to cops just as much as they apply to me.