So last month an unarmed man was shot by police near where I live. Given all the talk about police brutality lately, initially you would think "Great. Cops being dicks again." But then they released the video and my thoughts are simply "wat?"

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv8wWGUl1N8

 

A few things to note:

 

• He was unarmed.
• He was drunk.
• He survived.
• He was stopped after cops received a domestic violence call. (He beat his pregnant girlfriend and drove off I guess).
• He claims he was trying to throw his keys to the police when they shot him.
• You can't really hear what he's saying in the video, but he's more or less talking crap to the cops, saying things like "You guys aint got shit," etc.

 

I just can't figure out if he was trying to kill himself or if he was just being a complete drunk idiot and didn't think they would shoot. But he definitely wasn't throwing any keys. Good luck trying to take that to court. No charges have been filed last I heard.

Oh yes, the OP video... that guy wanted the cops to shoot him. He played like he had a gun and moved like he was gonna use it.

 

I'm sorta leaning toward the idea that he was simply shit faced drunk, being stupid, thinking he was tough and that the cops wouldn't actually shoot him. You have gang bangers here, and then you have gang bangers born and raised in Idaho who are a total joke but think they're something.

Humans are smart but very stupid creatures.

 

Either way, a country full of humans with guns is asking for eternal chaos.

 

This is never going to change about America and it's been talked about to death

Humans are smart but very stupid creatures.

 

Either way, a country full of humans with guns is asking for eternal chaos.

 

This is never going to change about America and it's been talked about to death

I disagree. Shootings and even murder is quite rare here. When it does happen, there is usually a justified reason. People don't go around doing drive bys or killing the liqueur store employee very often. In fact, most store robberies tend to take place when they are closed. I personally think a big reason for this is that guns around here are as available as candy and you never really know who's got one on hand at any given time in any given situation. It's not even uncommon to see regular civilians open carrying pistols in very public places like stores, parks, etc. Other people conceal carry, some people drive around with a handgun in their car. I mean, I've even done all this myself. So unless you're willing to die for it, you probably won't go around shooting at people here.

 

Humans are smart but very stupid creatures.

 

Either way, a country full of humans with guns is asking for eternal chaos.

 

This is never going to change about America and it's been talked about to death

I disagree. Shootings and even murder is quite rare here. When it does happen, there is usually a justified reason. People don't go around doing drive bys or killing the liqueur store employee very often. In fact, most store robberies tend to take place when they are closed. I personally think a big reason for this is that guns around here are as available as candy and you never really know who's got one on hand at any given time in any given situation. It's not even uncommon to see regular civilians open carrying pistols in very public places like stores, parks, etc. Other people conceal carry, some people drive around with a handgun in their car. I mean, I've even done all this myself. So unless you're willing to die for it, you probably won't go around shooting at people here.

 

What is 'rare' in America?

 

20 shootings a month?

 

And when you say 'here' i'm not referring to your state, i'm talking about the whole country.

 

You have gangbangers shooting rival gang members all the time

 

 

Humans are smart but very stupid creatures.

 

Either way, a country full of humans with guns is asking for eternal chaos.

 

This is never going to change about America and it's been talked about to death

I disagree. Shootings and even murder is quite rare here. When it does happen, there is usually a justified reason. People don't go around doing drive bys or killing the liqueur store employee very often. In fact, most store robberies tend to take place when they are closed. I personally think a big reason for this is that guns around here are as available as candy and you never really know who's got one on hand at any given time in any given situation. It's not even uncommon to see regular civilians open carrying pistols in very public places like stores, parks, etc. Other people conceal carry, some people drive around with a handgun in their car. I mean, I've even done all this myself. So unless you're willing to die for it, you probably won't go around shooting at people here.

 

What is 'rare' in America?

 

20 shootings a month?

 

And when you say 'here' i'm not referring to your state, i'm talking about the whole country.

 

You have gangbangers shooting rival gang members all the time

 

Right. And that is generally a bigger problem in states that have tighter gun regulations. In my state, it's very rare. And living here, I would think it's because everyone is armed. I sure as hell would not want to walk into any house (be it high class homes or poverty stricken apartments) and try to rob anyone. Not because it's a crime or anything, but for the sole fact that there is probably a 50% chance or more I might never come out alive. 

On the other hand, the only other major factor I can think of in all this is population. Compared to California, Idaho is nothing in terms of population. 

But regardless. I really think you see gun regulation in order to keep it out of gangsters hands. But at the same time, you're assuming that criminals and gangs abide by the law. So it leaves countless other people defenseless in the face of guns, but if everyone had a gun and everyone knew everyone had a gun, how often do you think shootings would take place?

Smaller population yes, but around here it seems to be a deterrent quite nicely. Especially in cases of armed robbery. Like I said, stores get broken into after closing time. Rarely when they are open. Nobody wants to fuck with the 12g under the cash register. 

 

Oh yes, the OP video... that guy wanted the cops to shoot him. He played like he had a gun and moved like he was gonna use it.

 

I'm sorta leaning toward the idea that he was simply shit faced drunk, being stupid, thinking he was tough and that the cops wouldn't actually shoot him. You have gang bangers here, and then you have gang bangers born and raised in Idaho who are a total joke but think they're something.

 

Yes I agree with you. The liquid courage was probably just what he needed to do what he did. What has gone completely off the rails is somehow people have got it in their heads that when dealing with the police they have options. The only option you have is to do exactly what they say. If you don't do what they say... well then you are endangering your own life.

 

 

Oh yes, the OP video... that guy wanted the cops to shoot him. He played like he had a gun and moved like he was gonna use it.

 

I'm sorta leaning toward the idea that he was simply shit faced drunk, being stupid, thinking he was tough and that the cops wouldn't actually shoot him. You have gang bangers here, and then you have gang bangers born and raised in Idaho who are a total joke but think they're something.

 

Yes I agree with you. The liquid courage was probably just what he needed to do what he did. What has gone completely off the rails is somehow people have got it in their heads that when dealing with the police they have options. The only option you have is to do exactly what they say. If you don't do what they say... well then you are endangering your own life.

 

Up to a point. You should follow any commands for your physical behavior, barring illegal or life-threatening commands, but it's best if you just shut up until you get a lawyer. They'll want you to talk, threaten you with obstruction, do just about anything to get you to talk, but you should only tell them what they need to know to assist someone whose life is in danger, and that's about it. Police are happy to take the easy route when it comes to solving the crime. If they can pin it on you and call it a day, that is what they will do. Never assume that the cop is your friend OR has the interests of justice in mind. It's very easy to end up innocent and in jail if you meet up with the wrong cop. Ask if you are free to go. If the answer is "no", then ask for a lawyer and shut up.

 

FoxFire and Lysistra pretty much explained it. The cops in the first video did just about all they could to defuse the situation. The guy threatened their life, so they were allowed to take his. The second video had a cop doing everything he could to get the guy to run. He did, the cop shot him, charges were filed. The key is in the intent of the cops making the stop. You have to put yourselves in their heads to understand why what they did was wrong. First video, they just wanted to arrest the guy and shot because he would've killed them otherwise (or appeared that he could do so). Second video, he wanted to physically attack the suspect and show that he was the one with power. It's likely the suspect could have run with few to no negative consequences.

 

You cannot use logic and rationality to judge split-second decisions. You have to use the training and emotions behind those decisions. If you shoot a suspect because he runs from you, it's a reflection on your attitude towards civilians in general (that they are all guilty and deserve to die). If you shoot one that is about to shoot at you, you value your life and the ones around you. Not that hard.

 

What I'm getting from Master Master Samus & Shepard is that their country does not accept lethal force to protect your own life. That's a difference in values well worth discussing, and pacifism is a worthy philosophy, even if I don't hold to it. I don't believe it works in the real world (sociopaths have no problems killing, no matter if you resist or not), but I'm a sheepdog kinda guy rather than a sheep kinda guy. I hold great admiration for those who choose not to harm others in any circumstance, although I think they'd be dead without others who were willing to harm criminals under certain circumstances.

 

The gun debate involves a natural distrust of government that is valuable for an alert and questioning populace. If you want to come down on America, do it for the lack of political participation from citizens that would rather hole up with a bazooka than engage with the politicians "infringing" on their freedoms. I may denigrate tea-partiers, but at least they are a part of the political process, unlike the militias that sequester themselves in the mountains.

I don't have a problem with guns per se, they have their uses no doubt.

 

I have a problem with giving retards guns.

 

My country's police don't usually carry guns, but we do have armed divisions in our force. Which means these armed policemen have been thoroughly trained on the responsibility they hold with their guns.

 

I don't see the same thing in countries like America. It looks like any retard with a badge gets a gun and that's that.

I don't have a problem with guns per se, they have their uses no doubt.

 

I have a problem with giving retards guns.

 

My country's police don't usually carry guns, but we do have armed divisions in our force. Which means these armed policemen have been thoroughly trained on the responsibility they hold with their guns.

 

I don't see the same thing in countries like America. It looks like any retard with a badge gets a gun and that's that.

True, although I would argue that you shouldn't even give a badge to a retard. Unfortunately, law enforcement isn't a prestigious position in government-fearing America, nor is it a high-paid one. Most rural officers make less than half of the median income. Urban officers usually make more, but generally not enough for a high-stress and high-danger position. It's one reason I have no problem with the Houston Police Department's lax moonlighting policy. I would rather allow officers make extra money as security guards (and trust me, many can pull six figures if they get a good gig) than deal with the trash we would get without a decent income for them. I'd rather the city pay them better, but governments rarely pay well. Even the U.S. president makes about 1/20th or less of the money he could make in the private sector.

 

Guns in the U.S. police is largely about leveling the playing field between officers and citizens. I agree that they need more training, but the feds would rather hand over surplus military equipment and train them how to use grenade launchers. They should pay for genuine training instead.

 

An important thing to recognize is that all policing is local in the U.S. I mean really local. I mean, most departments don't see a dime from the national government and have little to no oversight. That's a huge difference from most countries, where the national government provides officers and pays for their training. Traditionally, this separated law enforcement from far-away political elites and made them more responsive to local concerns. Unfortunately, Americans are more disengaged from local government than they ever have been. Less than a third typically even vote in local-only elections.

 

Obama and the feds have little to no control over local police in the U.S. Citizens would have control, if they would only go to town hall meetings and take a genuine interest in local elections. Instead of watching "The Bachelor" or reading about Kim Kardashian, volunteer for your councilman's campaign. Find a rep for the local policeman's union and ask if you can speak to them. This gives you far more social currency to enact change in your community and doesn't cost much, if anything. Local police don't want to be dicks any more than most people do. However by viewing them as a separate and problematic part of your community, you only encourage them to treat you the same way. People tend to be emotional mirrors 90% of the time. So the citizens of these neighborhoods should show their officers what they want reflected back.

Best quote: "Their job is to serve and protect. Not to serve and die."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7mZQvaQDk

My wife showed me that this morning from her Facebook. Wish we had more moms like that. Here's one from me.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kMkJAeeH4E

and at 1.15 it want south. literally.

 

the rest are such obvious truths, you keep wondering why you need to say them to the small fraction of the population who dn't belief in them.