Somewhere between 55 and 64 ISIS targets hit by Russia in a 24-hour Period.

 

Thoughts? It seems to me as though Russia's finally putting it's foot down and stepping in to protect Syria and Assad (a long-time Ally) from ISIS and rebel groups backed by various countries, such as US-backed "Moderate Rebels." 

One thing I thought was funny was CNN reporting that Russia was only bombing Civilians and "Moderate Rebels" before their planes had even took off, and then when reports came in that Russia had bombed Raqqa (the de-facto capital of the so-called Islamic State), CNN instead started reporting that Russian Missiles had crashed in Iran; a report which was disclaimed, and answered with video-footage from the Russians showing the missiles being launched as well as them hitting their targets.

 

Here's a video with a short overview of what's happening (I don't know how to embed videos)

 

It gets even more complicated when you take into account groups like the Syriac Military Council, which is a Christian Militia that, as far as I know, is only involved in combating ISIS' advances into areas that are predominantly Assyrian Christian.

 

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/67F1/production/_85790662_syria_control_map_624_v4.png

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34496583

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/10/syria-airstrikes-russia-reports-64-missions-isis-24-hours

 

 

We should be helping them protect Assad rather than handing supplies to ISIS and Al-Nusra. 

I seriously can't wrap my mind around how our government can be so stubbornly retarded in this situation. 

"OMG! Russia is doing something! We better oppose it, just because!"

Someone go slap the shit out of Obama for me.

Actually, we should just fire our whole military command. Bunch of incompetent fuckwits with zero strategy for anything ever over the last several decades.

We should be helping them protect Assad rather than handing supplies to ISIS and Al-Nusra. 

I seriously can't wrap my mind around how our government can be so stubbornly retarded in this situation. 

"OMG! Russia is doing something! We better oppose it, just because!"

Someone go slap the shit out of Obama for me.

 

Better men than me have tried

http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1179/11799911/2653381-pokemon.jpg

(Yes, that's a Pikachu hat)

 

It's like a cold-war style of Proxy-war going on, like what we did when the USSR invaded Afghanistan.

Syria is Russia's porthole into the Middle East, kind of like Israel/Saudi Arabia are for us. Thing is, why are our politicians trying so hard to cut down Russia instead of working with them? 

The US has accused Russia of running a "fundamentally flawed" campaign in Syria that risks further escalating the conflict there.

 

This is the main hypocrisy I have an issue with, isn't that all the US has being doing in the middle east for years. 

It's like they just think everyone is clueless about how much of a failure their campaigns have being. 

 

More people need to speak out about this hypocrisy in all regards. Only the US can wage war (mostly illegal war), other countries can't even legally enter war without getting slammed. 

I for one welcome this evaporation of Russian wealth for a useless purpose. Especially if Ukraine gets peace because of it. Resources are not limitless, and it's better they burn them in the Middle East than have them available for us. Syria is currently a shitshow on all sides, and it's better we let their own people take care of it. If ISIS causes trouble outside of Syria, bomb their leaders and then leave. Repeat as needed.

 

I just wish Bush & Obama had been smarter and less handcuffed about foreign policy *sigh*.

 

 

Thing is, why are our politicians trying so hard to cut down Russia instead of working with them? 

Because our politicians haven't realized the Cold War is over yet, so anything Russia does is automatically evil. Funny thing is, I'm not fond of Putin, but I've sided with Russia in Ukraine, Ossetia and Syria all the way. 

 

Thing is, why are our politicians trying so hard to cut down Russia instead of working with them? 

Because our politicians haven't realized the Cold War is over yet, so anything Russia does is automatically evil. Funny thing is, I'm not fond of Putin, but I've sided with Russia in Ukraine, Ossetia and Syria all the way. 

 

Come, visit us in Europe (but not the western part) and see if the cold war has indeed fully ended. That being said I feel very uneasy with myself supporting Russian recent actions, but Western politicians / medias are so much full of $#%# when it comes to Syria.

Come, visit us in Europe (but not the western part) and see if the cold war has indeed fully ended. That being said I feel very uneasy with myself supporting Russian recent actions, but Western politicians / medias are so much full of $#%# when it comes to Syria.

My thoughts exactly. At this point, the only way forward in Syria is to negotiate a deal with Assad. He's still the best option, the "Moderate Rebels" simply don't exist.

 

Come, visit us in Europe (but not the western part) and see if the cold war has indeed fully ended. That being said I feel very uneasy with myself supporting Russian recent actions, but Western politicians / medias are so much full of $#%# when it comes to Syria.

My thoughts exactly. At this point, the only way forward in Syria is to negotiate a deal with Assad. He's still the best option, the "Moderate Rebels" simply don't exist.

 

Ain't that the truth. But the moderate "fighters" exist, they're just on their way to Germany. Nobody in Syria wants to bleed for that piece of dirt besides fascists and fanatics.

 

 

Thing is, why are our politicians trying so hard to cut down Russia instead of working with them? 

Because our politicians haven't realized the Cold War is over yet, so anything Russia does is automatically evil. Funny thing is, I'm not fond of Putin, but I've sided with Russia in Ukraine, Ossetia and Syria all the way. 

 

Come, visit us in Europe (but not the western part) and see if the cold war has indeed fully ended. That being said I feel very uneasy with myself supporting Russian recent actions, but Western politicians / medias are so much full of $#%# when it comes to Syria.

 

 

It hasn't ended because the US and Western Europe insists on stirring the pot.

And yeah Crimea voted to leave Ukraine, that's democracy in action. Crimea wasn't always a part of Ukraine and Tibet wasn't always a part of China.

Does that mean the West think China should keep Tibet due to it belonging to China. I don't know what logic they use to be honest. 

It's more that Tibet will be impossible to get away from China. Just look at where it is located: surrounded on all sides by mountainous and populous countries. Talk about a logistical nightmare.

 

And there wasn't a giant outcry against Crimea (minus the standard tut-tutting of the media & politicians). I even stated to KH once that it was a historical part of Russia that maintained its Russian identity. The outcry was against Russia's invasion of Eastern Ukraine, an area that was Ukrainian until Russia took uniforms off of its soldiers and sent them in. Until those fighters leave, sanctions should be maintained to indicate that the West will not lay down if Russia drives further into Europe.

It hasn't ended because the US and Western Europe insists on stirring the pot.

It takes two to play at that game and Russia is all too willing partner for that

 

And there wasn't a giant outcry against Crimea (minus the standard tut-tutting of the media & politicians). I even stated to KH once that it was a historical part of Russia that maintained its Russian identity. The outcry was against Russia's invasion of Eastern Ukraine, an area that was Ukrainian until Russia took uniforms off of its soldiers and sent them in. Until those fighters leave, sanctions should be maintained to indicate that the West will not lay down if Russia drives further into Europe.

I was going to address that as well, I think it's more of same hypocrisy.

US backed Rebels overthrowing Ukrainian government = Good

Possibly Russian backed Rebels reclaiming their Ukraine = Bad

 

I say possibly because I think it's a bold claim, US is dismissive of claims about them so obviously you can't trust claims they make about others. 

 

 

It hasn't ended because the US and Western Europe insists on stirring the pot.

It takes two to play at that game and Russia is all too willing partner for that

 

 

Quite true, a few years ago I came to the understanding everything in the world needs balance.

The world needs countries like China and Russia to be the opposition to the US. A stronger US and a weaker Russia & China is bad for most people in the world. 

US needs to be knocked down a notch to make things more balanced.

I don't know how the U.S. would be knocked down without a nuke or two. I might argue with Lysistra about public healthcare, but there's a reason the U.S. system has built an economy few others can match. Either countries are too small (Americas minus Brazil), too divided (EU), too corrupt (Russia) or have a rule of law that is too weak (China). Not saying China's anarchy, but everything is skewed towards the government's benefit. That will always anchor the economy.

 

If anybody wants to "knock the U.S. down a peg or two", then they're in for a fight. I believe in a multi-polar world, but would rather have a peaceful one.

 

It hasn't ended because the US and Western Europe insists on stirring the pot.

It takes two to play at that game and Russia is all too willing partner for that

 

I disagree. Russias former SSRs are being swallowed by NATO and we, the west, are basically putting up the new iron curtain. I remember hearing Putin say something along the lines of "If the cold war is over, why does NATO keep expanding toward Russian borders?"

Put yourself in their shoes for a change. We are effectively trying to box in and contain Russia. Our stance towards them has not changed one bit since the cold war. On the other hand, they have shown much more willingness to cooperate with the west since the USSR. They even erected a memorial to 9/11.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/scubastza/Blog%20Stuff/Tearsofgriefbayonne.jpg

http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2013/39/440497b74bc9c3709f07150df30e1482932db536.jpg

But let's not forget, they are super bad and everything they do is super bad, because the dictator of Europe called the United States told European leaders it's so since 1945. 

 

America: Producing the worlds most ass backward foreign policies since 1945!

In a way, the West is still trying to wage the Cold War still. But it's not like the mutually assured destruction we all enjoyed back in the day; now it's more ideological than anything, with the ideologies flip-flopped. Russia and the East has become more Conservative, and the West has become so extremely Liberal that we're importing "refugees" without questioning potential consequences out of fear of being called racist - while Russia and the East refuse to take part, and even when some do come, they are told that they must integrate.

 

For example, I've read reports that the German Government has been censoring reports of crimes, such as rape, committed by refugee groups while people riot in the streets and literally burn down refugee camps and riots happen across the EU.

 

In contrast, Hungary completely shut off it's borders to the "refugees" and, as of the last time I saw, wasn't letting any of them in.

 

This is leading up to some countries, such as the UK and Slovakia, threatening to leave the EU

Meanwhile, in the USA....

 

(I use the term "refugee" loosely, as reports have come out that the majority of these so-called refugees aren't from Syria, and are majority young men of fighting age)

A personal thank you to George Jarvis for posting the link to Bill Whittle. I have been a fan of his for 7 years and everyone would benefit from his wisdom. Thank you George.

A personal thank you to George Jarvis for posting the link to Bill Whittle. I have been a fan of his for 7 years and everyone would benefit from his wisdom. Thank you George.

 

Found out about him today - A page I follow on Facebook shared that video. Quite good, he knows how to orate and has his opinions are thought-out.

I'm going to take this moment to rant about Syria and Obama.... If your eyes are virgin, I'd step away now.....

 

I'm 99.99% sure that Obama and his staff, deep down inside, all agree, that supporting Assad is the best option in Syria. 

But none of them. Not one. Not even one of those ass backward, leg hugging, "Oh this is just a job and I do what I'm told", cunts will say a god damn thing about it. They all know it's true. They all KNOW it's true. If there is any such thing as moderates in Syria, it's the Syrian government. Corrupt? Yes. Moderate? The only moderate there is.

The FSA is a joke. It was from day one. On one hand, I do have some slight respect for them. They are similar to the original IRA of my ancestors. But as this conflict has progressed, all I've seen is more and more religious divide. It was there from the beginning when the FSA demanded the removal of all Alawites from power. 

You can't just demand the representation of half the nations population be removed and replaced without a fight. This has come down to a fight between Sunni Muslims and everyone else in the area. 

Sorry Sunnis, but I have to side with the side that I know isn't going to result in the massacre of millions of innocent people and give into a radical religious reform.

 

Why does America insist on fighting Assad, even though we all know the truth? Even though everyone of his staff knows for a god damn motherfucking fact that his campaign has not only failed, but handed countless weapons to ISIS and Al-Nusra? 

 

It all comes down to Russia. Because Assad is an ally of Russia. The true fact is, Assad could be the single most terrible and warmongering asshole on the fucking planet and WE would be his ally, as long as he served our interest. Just look at the differences between Iran and Saudi Arabia. 

Where do you ever hear CNN complaining about Saudi Arabian human rights violations? But fuck me! Every god damn fucking time there is SOMETHING to complain about in Iran, you can expect EVERY American media station to have it covered. Fuck the fact that Saudis have TV shows about how to properly beat your wife. Let's focus on how Iranian women are actually allowed to go outside! (Only we're gonna make it sound so much worse).

 

This country is great, by our foreign policy makes me sick to be an American. Thinking about it makes me want to move back home every single fucking time.

First of all, while Cold War in its previous form has ended, a rivalry between West and Russia has never ceased. It's a matter of Russian ambitions that want to be treated as a superpower equal to USA and UE and not as a partner, one of many...sort like Germany is. Now, while Russia's military is still superpower level it's economy is way lower, not even Germany level. So they play aggressive game (also trying to use China to lever their position) with the west to prove they're still the force to be reckoned with. Obviously West is playing that game too since they'd rather have Russia as a weaker, submissive partner. Problem is, that according to the Chinese doctrine there can be only one superpower in Asia and sooner or later (assuming there won't be anything of nuclear war sort) Russia is going to loose this game due to sheer disproportion of economical potential.

 

Secondly former SSR's are not being swallowed by NATO. They just want to get out of the reach of Russian claws. I'm certain you westerners are informed well enough to know how USA performed in South America. They didn't saw their southern neighbors as partners, but rather vassals and that's why they're not very liked out there.

Imagine Russia was treating their neighbors same way...even worse due to their weak economy (who do you think was funding their arms race? Older people in my country still remember those jokes about trading deals with Russia, like "we were sending them canned meat and as their part of the bargain they sent us their shoes for resoling").

Every nation wants to be independent. And what do they do when they're threatened by powerful neighbor? They turn to other strong player to protect them. That's why some of them turn to NATO and some of them (like Kazakhstan) turn to China (and I don't remember Putin speaking anything against China...and that's because he desperately needs them as allies). On the other hand Russia needs those countries back firmly in their influence sphere (they made half of USRR population back in the days) if they dream about bringing their empire back.

 

Thirdly about Ukraine. 'Crimea' and 'democratic voting' does not sit very well in one sentence. Rather gunpoint democracy, with Russian armed forces swarming all over the peninsula. Also I'd like to remind you what was the cause of Chechen wars. They also had democratic voting, but then it wasn't secured with Russian guns and went quite the opposite way.

As far as Ukraine goes, I'm sure both parties (west and east) had put their hands into that mess and invested some money. However there were never a rebellion against prorussian government. Has anyone saw protesters sporting assault rifles or driving around Kiev in APC's? True, there was violence, there were even dead, but it stayed on riot level and never escalated into armed rebellion. For those that are not very familiar with the topic, it went like this:

 

1. Anti government protests in Kiev turning into riots.

2. As a response pro government protests in multiple cities of eastern and northern Ukraine.

3. Prorussian gov falls and escapes to Russia.

4. When pro russian protests turn out to be ineffective, they suddenly dissipate (in many cites it all just collapsed, going from violent protests into calm atmosphere in a matter of a single days).

5. Immediately armed groups appear in a specific region in the east. That's the first moment we're seeing "civilians" armed with rifles.

 

It was all a "game" between west and east. However due to prowestern sentiments of people, all USA/UE or whomever just need to do was to support it with cash. Russia was in worse position, so it had to alter the stake by introducing military aspect, in order to stay in game. West did it many times in the past too (for instance in Iran), so they all have dirty hands.

Still it's better to look for truth rather than blindly following one side of the story because you either hate USA or Russia.

Really naive to believe the whole "we the people" fairy tale. Cmon, it isn't the 90s where you can't find both sides of the story.

 

And also yea most of the stories in mainstream western media are sourced to some obscure Syrian human rights observatory, ran by one single guy..sitting in UK and hasn't been in Syria for a few years, Its really a big joke and half, if not more the media in west is ran by a right wing xenophobe.

Edited October 11, 201511 yr by Shahenshah

In my opinion Putin is the only serious statesman on the world stage today. Consider that he took over Russia at its lowest point in many centuries, after the chaotic collapse of the USSR and the ruinous looting of the Yeltsin years. Just look at Russia now; a confident serious player on the world stage. Putin's strength is that he has a sense of history and a grasp of the big picture, two things totally lacking in the American and EU leadership.

 

NATO has been playing dangerous tricky games in Syria, and not playing them well. Claiming to be fighting ISIS but wanting to overthrow the Syrian gov't at the same time. This lead to a four year bloody stalemate and a refugee crisis pouring across into Europe. Can you say "blowback?"

 

The Russian intervention possibly with Iranian assistance will quickly resolve the situation in the legitimate Syrian government's favour. Smartest thing the NATO powers could do at this point is just to gracefully get out of the way. But will they?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vApBZlaePec

I'm glad you guys are able to discuss these issues and debate without getting person; this is a good discussion!

All of you are making good points and raising ideas I had not considered. 

 

 

I, personally, see Putin as the complete opposite of Obama; Strong, ruthless, Nationalistic, etc. So I am partial to him because I've seen the kinds of ridiculous things that have happened in the past almost-decade under Obama's administration. 

I'm glad you guys are able to discuss these issues and debate without getting person; this is a good discussion!

All of you are making good points and raising ideas I had not considered. 

 

 

I, personally, see Putin as the complete opposite of Obama; Strong, ruthless, Nationalistic, etc. So I am partial to him because I've seen the kinds of ridiculous things that have happened in the past almost-decade under Obama's administration. 

This is why IRON is my home. We are all from different parts of the world, we have vastly different opinions, but we have mad respect for each other. I don't see this ever changing, therefore I'm with you until CN dies... or I die... at least.

For example, I've read reports that the German Government has been censoring reports of crimes, such as rape, committed by refugee groups while people riot in the streets and literally burn down refugee camps and riots happen across the EU.

 

In contrast, Hungary completely shut off it's borders to the "refugees" and, as of the last time I saw, wasn't letting any of them in.

Sorry, but Hungary = West = Germany. They are EU aswell. Its the whole Shengen agreement that started that ball rolling.

 

 

1. Anti government protests in Kiev turning into riots.

2. As a response pro government protests in multiple cities of eastern and northern Ukraine.

3. Prorussian gov falls and escapes to Russia.

4. When pro russian protests turn out to be ineffective, they suddenly dissipate (in many cites it all just collapsed, going from violent protests into calm atmosphere in a matter of a single days).

5. Immediately armed groups appear in a specific region in the east. That's the first moment we're seeing "civilians" armed with rifles.

well I heared it was:

3a. Agreement between protesters (pro-EU) and government (pro-Putin)

3b. Same night, pro-Putin president "flee's/leaves/moves/..." (whatever you want, nobody is actually sure what word should be used) to Eastern Ukraine via helicopter

3c. Gov in dissarray, protesters basically walk into an empty palace (really, seen the video?) and are defacto government now

 

He basically had an agreement, went away and suddenly he got sidetracked completely. radio-silence for a week or so, then in Russia to speak against agreement.