29 replies to this topic

[Shahenshah]

ABC News ‏@ABC
Peaceful protest followed by Oregon wildlife refuge action

[Icewolf]

So a racist twat has taken over a building because the terms of the government subsidy he received through very cheap grazing rights were not quite generous enough for his liking? And also because some friends of his got charged with arson because they wanted to hide the fact they were stealing deer from public land? 

[Lysistrata]

So a racist twat has taken over a building because the terms of the government subsidy he received through very cheap grazing rights were not quite generous enough for his liking? And also because some friends of his got charged with arson because they wanted to hide the fact they were stealing deer from public land? 

You're not a very nice person. You call people names and throw terms like "racist" around like you know something we all don't. Well, you know nothing Jon Snow. The Bundy's are angry because the Federal Government stole their land, under what we call "Imminent Domain". They stole it for no other reason than to make one criminal Senator, by the name of Harry Reid, and a group of his friends, more rich. I don't know all the details... who is right, who is wrong... but I live in Nevada where the Bundy's lost their ranch, and I hate my Senator Harry Reid with every cell in me. So happy this is his last year, but I will be watching what he does on his way out... trust me, he will not go quietly into the night.

 

On the other hand... this should be put down, and the law will prevail.

[Icewolf]

He has made a lot of very racist remarks in the recent past, including suggesting that Blacks would be better off as slaves. No, he does not to me sound like a nice person that I would want to have a cup of tea with.  

 

Additionally, there has been no emminent domain action against Bundy. If there has, seeing as it would require a hearing in open court, someone would have produced the court records by now. Bundy doesn't even claim that the land legally belongs to him, his claim is that it should belong to the State government and not the Federal Government, which in a common law system makes bugger all sense as Governments are as free as other people to set up a legal personality to own land. The idea that the Federal Government can't own land makes about as much sense as saying that the Federal Government cannot own a pencil. 

 

Now the Keystone Pipeline where private property is being handed to a private company in order to make private profits is something you might want to be concerned about. A whiny sod who wants to freeload off the Government by using publicly owned land for free (and therefore deny its use to other citizens) and is willing to use violence to achieve that aim, not someone you should really care about. 

[Lysistrata]

He has made a lot of very racist remarks in the recent past, including suggesting that Blacks would be better off as slaves. No, he does not to me sound like a nice person that I would want to have a cup of tea with.  

 

Additionally, there has been no emminent domain action against Bundy. If there has, seeing as it would require a hearing in open court, someone would have produced the court records by now. Bundy doesn't even claim that the land legally belongs to him, his claim is that it should belong to the State government and not the Federal Government, which in a common law system makes bugger all sense as Governments are as free as other people to set up a legal personality to own land. The idea that the Federal Government can't own land makes about as much sense as saying that the Federal Government cannot own a pencil. 

 

Now the Keystone Pipeline where private property is being handed to a private company in order to make private profits is something you might want to be concerned about. A whiny sod who wants to freeload off the Government by using publicly owned land for free (and therefore deny its use to other citizens) and is willing to use violence to achieve that aim, not someone you should really care about. 

Well I'll call Obama, John Kerry, the Pentagon, and notify the Joint Chiefs of Staff that we are surrendering our sovereignty back to our British superiors. The Federal Government owns what we allow them to own. They want a pencil?... they go to the House of Representatives to get it. The power the government has, is given to them by us. It's that whole "We The People" thing.

 

If the Federal Government takes your land that has been with your family for a century, through imminent domain, and then decides they will charge you for being on it... well I think the people will be a little pissed. Stop judging us from your lofty British ivory tower. We have laws here, and we'll sort it out ourselves. I think we had to fight you guys twice to be able to say that.

[Blade 619]

He has made a lot of very racist remarks in the recent past, including suggesting that Blacks would be better off as slaves. No, he does not to me sound like a nice person that I would want to have a cup of tea with.  
 
Additionally, there has been no emminent domain action against Bundy. If there has, seeing as it would require a hearing in open court, someone would have produced the court records by now. Bundy doesn't even claim that the land legally belongs to him, his claim is that it should belong to the State government and not the Federal Government, which in a common law system makes bugger all sense as Governments are as free as other people to set up a legal personality to own land. The idea that the Federal Government can't own land makes about as much sense as saying that the Federal Government cannot own a pencil. 
 
Now the Keystone Pipeline where private property is being handed to a private company in order to make private profits is something you might want to be concerned about. A whiny sod who wants to freeload off the Government by using publicly owned land for free (and therefore deny its use to other citizens) and is willing to use violence to achieve that aim, not someone you should really care about.

Well I'll call Obama, John Kerry, the Pentagon, and notify the Joint Chiefs of Staff that we are surrendering our sovereignty back to our British superiors. The Federal Government owns what we allow them to own. They want a pencil?... they go to the House of Representatives to get it. The power the government has, is given to them by us. It's that whole "We The People" thing.
 
If the Federal Government takes your land that has been with your family for a century, through imminent domain, and then decides they will charge you for being on it... well I think the people will be a little pissed. Stop judging us from your lofty British ivory tower. We have laws here, and we'll sort it out ourselves. I think we had to fight you guys twice to be able to say that.

Yeah... I bet the Indians are pretty pissed.

[Rusken]

 

 

He has made a lot of very racist remarks in the recent past, including suggesting that Blacks would be better off as slaves. No, he does not to me sound like a nice person that I would want to have a cup of tea with.  
 
Additionally, there has been no emminent domain action against Bundy. If there has, seeing as it would require a hearing in open court, someone would have produced the court records by now. Bundy doesn't even claim that the land legally belongs to him, his claim is that it should belong to the State government and not the Federal Government, which in a common law system makes bugger all sense as Governments are as free as other people to set up a legal personality to own land. The idea that the Federal Government can't own land makes about as much sense as saying that the Federal Government cannot own a pencil. 
 
Now the Keystone Pipeline where private property is being handed to a private company in order to make private profits is something you might want to be concerned about. A whiny sod who wants to freeload off the Government by using publicly owned land for free (and therefore deny its use to other citizens) and is willing to use violence to achieve that aim, not someone you should really care about.

Well I'll call Obama, John Kerry, the Pentagon, and notify the Joint Chiefs of Staff that we are surrendering our sovereignty back to our British superiors. The Federal Government owns what we allow them to own. They want a pencil?... they go to the House of Representatives to get it. The power the government has, is given to them by us. It's that whole "We The People" thing.
 
If the Federal Government takes your land that has been with your family for a century, through imminent domain, and then decides they will charge you for being on it... well I think the people will be a little pissed. Stop judging us from your lofty British ivory tower. We have laws here, and we'll sort it out ourselves. I think we had to fight you guys twice to be able to say that.

 

Yeah... I bet the Indians are pretty pissed.

 

Nah... they're totally okay with the genocide, right? I mean, can't you just see their ecstatic faces as they were told "Hey! You only get this little plot of land!"

 

Because we're just that nice, right?

 

/sarcasm (in case anyone misses it and tries to blast me)

[Icewolf]

He has made a lot of very racist remarks in the recent past, including suggesting that Blacks would be better off as slaves. No, he does not to me sound like a nice person that I would want to have a cup of tea with.

Additionally, there has been no emminent domain action against Bundy. If there has, seeing as it would require a hearing in open court, someone would have produced the court records by now. Bundy doesn't even claim that the land legally belongs to him, his claim is that it should belong to the State government and not the Federal Government, which in a common law system makes bugger all sense as Governments are as free as other people to set up a legal personality to own land. The idea that the Federal Government can't own land makes about as much sense as saying that the Federal Government cannot own a pencil.

Now the Keystone Pipeline where private property is being handed to a private company in order to make private profits is something you might want to be concerned about. A whiny sod who wants to freeload off the Government by using publicly owned land for free (and therefore deny its use to other citizens) and is willing to use violence to achieve that aim, not someone you should really care about.

Well I'll call Obama, John Kerry, the Pentagon, and notify the Joint Chiefs of Staff that we are surrendering our sovereignty back to our British superiors. The Federal Government owns what we allow them to own. They want a pencil?... they go to the House of Representatives to get it. The power the government has, is given to them by us. It's that whole "We The People" thing.

If the Federal Government takes your land that has been with your family for a century, through imminent domain, and then decides they will charge you for being on it... well I think the people will be a little pissed. Stop judging us from your lofty British ivory tower. We have laws here, and we'll sort it out ourselves. I think we had to fight you guys twice to be able to say that.

Even Bundy doesn't claim to have ever held legal title to the land. Or that a member of his family has. As I said if you think I am wrong show me the court records for the exercise of emminent domain.

And the Federal Government is fully allowed under the constitution to own land. So you are right that they own what they are allowed to own as there is no bar on them owning land. This doesn't address the fact that Bundy's claim that they can't is stupid.

[Lysistrata]

It's a legal issue Ice... I don't care. I pay for a legal system to care. It's in the news because they will probably end up dead. What gets me is I live here and I don't care, but you don't live here and just leap at the chance to insinuate that we're just a bunch of armed racists that just don't want to pay our taxes. You're wrong, and the Bundy's live, or used to live, about 30 miles that way from me. I don't know if they are still there, but they are not alone in their hatred for Harry Reid.

[DarkFox]

Odds are the ATF and such will just surround the malcontents until they surrender. Really just a bunch of morons using "protest" as a shield from legal action.

[Lysistrata]

Odds are the ATF and such will just surround the malcontents until they surrender. Really just a bunch of morons using "protest" as a shield from legal action.

I hope so Fox. This smells like Waco all over again, but worse. Waco was their own place and they all died, these guys seized what I think is a Federal facility. I don't believe Lynch wants to be the next Janet Reno, but this is Obama, and he's wanting a big splash somewhere to justify taking the guns. He tries to do that... this thing can get out of hand.

[DarkFox]

I am pretty sure they already said that they would surrender Monday, but even so there are no women and children there to my knowledge so it couldn't be Waco even if they went in guns blazing.

[Icewolf]

It's a legal issue Ice... I don't care. I pay for a legal system to care. It's in the news because they will probably end up dead. What gets me is I live here and I don't care, but you don't live here and just leap at the chance to insinuate that we're just a bunch of armed racists that just don't want to pay our taxes. You're wrong, and the Bundy's live, or used to live, about 30 miles that way from me. I don't know if they are still there, but they are not alone in their hatred for Harry Reid.

I apologise for any offense caused, but my statements were directed purely at Bundy, not at the citizenry of Oregon in general. 

[Shahenshah]

So a racist twat has taken over a building because the terms of the government subsidy he received through very cheap grazing rights were not quite generous enough for his liking? And also because some friends of his got charged with arson because they wanted to hide the fact they were stealing deer from public land?

You're not a very nice person. You call people names and throw terms like "racist" around like you know something we all don't. Well, you know nothing Jon Snow. The Bundy's are angry because the Federal Government stole their land, under what we call "Imminent Domain". They stole it for no other reason than to make one criminal Senator, by the name of Harry Reid, and a group of his friends, more rich. I don't know all the details... who is right, who is wrong... but I live in Nevada where the Bundy's lost their ranch, and I hate my Senator Harry Reid with every cell in me. So happy this is his last year, but I will be watching what he does on his way out... trust me, he will not go quietly into the night.

On the other hand... this should be put down, and the law will prevail.

I had the misfortune of visiting Trumps Reddit fan/official? Page. They were all having a healthy debate on how Eugenics is a solution to genetically low IQ of blacks, perhaps they should force.mixing it up with Asians to get average IQ up and stop high IQ blacks to marry within their race as a recess gene will kick in and bring down the IQ in future generations. Sure, this all free speech and it is unfair to club them up with all Republicans, but since the logic Republicans pass around that all Muslims are not terrorist but all terrorists are Muslims, Itd be fair and use the same logic and say not all Republicans are racist but most of the racists in America are Republicans. Wait no, I'm not reducing myself to that level, but you get the idea people less interested in nuances and complexities and rather have simpler frameworks in which they define the world would have such an impression.

I'll try to find that specific link, but you could Google it yourselves, I don't want to be sick to the stomach.

Edit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/3ygkab/rpolitics_is_fucking_pathetic/

Edited by Shahenshah, 04 January 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[Shahenshah]

He has made a lot of very racist remarks in the recent past, including suggesting that Blacks would be better off as slaves. No, he does not to me sound like a nice person that I would want to have a cup of tea with.   Additionally, there has been no emminent domain action against Bundy. If there has, seeing as it would require a hearing in open court, someone would have produced the court records by now. Bundy doesn't even claim that the land legally belongs to him, his claim is that it should belong to the State government and not the Federal Government, which in a common law system makes bugger all sense as Governments are as free as other people to set up a legal personality to own land. The idea that the Federal Government can't own land makes about as much sense as saying that the Federal Government cannot own a pencil.  Now the Keystone Pipeline where private property is being handed to a private company in order to make private profits is something you might want to be concerned about. A whiny sod who wants to freeload off the Government by using publicly owned land for free (and therefore deny its use to other citizens) and is willing to use violence to achieve that aim, not someone you should really care about.

Well I'll call Obama, John Kerry, the Pentagon, and notify the Joint Chiefs of Staff that we are surrendering our sovereignty back to our British superiors. The Federal Government owns what we allow them to own. They want a pencil?... they go to the House of Representatives to get it. The power the government has, is given to them by us. It's that whole "We The People" thing. If the Federal Government takes your land that has been with your family for a century, through imminent domain, and then decides they will charge you for being on it... well I think the people will be a little pissed. Stop judging us from your lofty British ivory tower. We have laws here, and we'll sort it out ourselves. I think we had to fight you guys twice to be able to say that.

Yeah... I bet the Indians are pretty pissed.

But they all assimilated voluntarily via Indian boarding schools.

"Transfer the savage-born infant to the surroundings of civilisation, and he will grow to possess a civilised language and habit." Captain Richard H Pratt.

[Rhizoctonia]

They should be classified as what they're, terrorists.  They're occupying a federal building and are armed.  I'm not disputing their reason for being there, or what they're speaking out against is wrong, but what they're doing is.  Though it seems they must feel they've done everything possible that they have to resort to this action, what they're doing is wrong, they're holding up a Government building with guns, and police/swat/etc should do whatever is needed to end it.  

 

You want a prime example of how not to protest, here it is.  I hope they all get locked up for it. 

[Commander Shepard]

They aren't terrorists, they're freedom fighters/rebels. The United States usually supports rebels. 

[Lysistrata]

They should be classified as what they're, terrorists.  They're occupying a federal building and are armed.  I'm not disputing their reason for being there, or what they're speaking out against is wrong, but what they're doing is.  Though it seems they must feel they've done everything possible that they have to resort to this action, what they're doing is wrong, they're holding up a Government building with guns, and police/swat/etc should do whatever is needed to end it.  

 

You want a prime example of how not to protest, here it is.  I hope they all get locked up for it. 

^This^

 

First... Ice I accept... and I apologize for my undeserved over-reaction. When all is said and done, in reality we're on the same side. We are traveling to the same place my friend, and we will not always agree on which path to take.

 

I see "racist" thrown around a lot here. I guess being a racist is hating, or not trusting someone, because of skin color. What is it called if you hate or not trust someone because they're rich? What is it if you hate or not trust someone because they're transgender? or a Jew? or a Republican? or a politician? or a car salesman? or a union rep? or anyone really.

 

The only thing in common in all that is "hate" or "not trusting". The person it's pointed at is irrelevant... it doesn't matter. What is true about it is it's a human condition. We all have this, and it's not illegal. The condition can cause us to do things that are illegal, and that's when it becomes wrong. Until then, we're just human. Punish the crime my friends... not the emotion.

[Finster Baby]

They should be classified as what they're, terrorists.  They're occupying a federal building and are armed.  I'm not disputing their reason for being there, or what they're speaking out against is wrong, but what they're doing is.  Though it seems they must feel they've done everything possible that they have to resort to this action, what they're doing is wrong, they're holding up a Government building with guns, and police/swat/etc should do whatever is needed to end it.  
 
You want a prime example of how not to protest, here it is.  I hope they all get locked up for it.

If they were black and/or muslim, they'd be labeled exactly that, and the federal lands under their so-called control would be back under federal control.

But since they're "White, Christian Men"™ they will be called everything BUT terrorists.

I'm not saying their gripes aren't valid. But lets call them what they are right now: Criminals and terrorists.

[Lysistrata]

 

They should be classified as what they're, terrorists.  They're occupying a federal building and are armed.  I'm not disputing their reason for being there, or what they're speaking out against is wrong, but what they're doing is.  Though it seems they must feel they've done everything possible that they have to resort to this action, what they're doing is wrong, they're holding up a Government building with guns, and police/swat/etc should do whatever is needed to end it.  
 
You want a prime example of how not to protest, here it is.  I hope they all get locked up for it.

If they were black and/or muslim, they'd be labeled exactly that, and the federal lands under their so-called control would be back under federal control.

But since they're "White, Christian Men"™ they will be called everything BUT terrorists.

I'm not saying their gripes aren't valid. But lets call them what they are right now: Criminals and terrorists.

 

Not really true my friend. Indians took over Alcatraz to change government policy. They were never called "terrorists" and what they did worked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Alcatraz

 

"The Occupation of Alcatraz had a direct effect on Federal Indian policy and, with it's visible results, established a precedent for Indian activism."