I have been kind of following this, although I have no skin in the game and have no idea how this will affect your lives, I would like to know how my British cousins feel about this issue. It looks to me, according to this piece, that you guys are favoring an exit from the European Union. I myself despise all forms of socialism, and I like to see nations stand on their own and make a difference, so I have been in favor of this move. Please, help me understand your positions.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-leave-campaign-10-point-lead-remain-boris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

Fun fact:

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

 

Read this, it is the guy who started that petition, OVER 1 MONTH AGO, he is on the LEAVE side!

 

I lol'ed

 

 

(btw, I already agree that the turnout is excellent, sure it aint Belgian +95% levels, but more people went to vote then in the last election in the UK, thats says plenty)

 

I laughed at this too.   

 

However..... 

 

 

"It also emerged today that the founder of the petition, which demands a re-count of the referendum because turnout was less than 75 per cent and the margin of victory was smaller than 20 per cent, is a Brexit supporter. 

 

William Oliver Healey, a final year student at De Montfort University, set up the petition in case the Leave campaign lost by s slim margin but ironically it was hijacked by Remain supporters after Thursday's 4 per cent win for Brexit.  

However, among the backers are people in the United States, Germany, France and even Syria.

More than 40,000 signatures come from people who said they live in Vatican City - a tiny state with just 800 residents. Civil servants are now investigating allegations of fraudulent sign-ups."

 

Dailymail; your voice of reason   

 

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Wow... this would be an insane move. The government calls a vote, then nullifies the vote, raises the bar, holds another vote, because they don't like the outcome of the first vote? This would mean open civil war... and the main reason why the USA will never give up our guns. It would validate all assumption that the UK cannot trust their government. You guys think you will have a rough patch? Do this, and you'll have much more than that for sure.

 

Hey Theo... I'm not a Fascist... I'm a Capitalist. I don't believe the EU is the best thing for the UK, or Germany, or France, or any member nation that can do much better without it. It doesn't matter what reasons they have for pulling out. They can just not want to be in it anymore. Cut the umbilical cord, and breathe. You might just like the feeling.

 

 

Thing is... I know you are not I simply applied your argument from a post above and that's the result

 

Let's leave the "reductio ad absurdum" out of discussion's such as this shall we?

It's not the government though.. It's the people who are signing those petitions. Obviously they've had a change of mind after seeing the lies these politicians spew.

 

imo Leave party are bloody liars and I do not trust their government setup one bit.

 

e.g

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYkhkNFt4IM

 

 

'I think they made a mistake'

 

Bastards.

 

 

By all means. Do remember that, when Britain starts begging to be let back in and the 27 start laughing

You're starting to sound like you're a Brit who voted remain lol

 

 

Not really. If I was a Brit, I would almost without doubt have voted to Leave...

 

lol contradicting yourself or what?

 

Nope the post about the 27 is the most likely reality (not an opinion). Me voting as if I were a citizen of UK is my opinion and in such a case I would most likely vote Leave.

 

Fun fact:

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

 

Read this, it is the guy who started that petition, OVER 1 MONTH AGO, he is on the LEAVE side!

 

I lol'ed

 

 

(btw, I already agree that the turnout is excellent, sure it aint Belgian +95% levels, but more people went to vote then in the last election in the UK, thats says plenty)

 that backfired lmao

 

 

So could this (Farage wanting second referendum if vote is 52% for Remain)

 

 

Fun fact:

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

 

Read this, it is the guy who started that petition, OVER 1 MONTH AGO, he is on the LEAVE side!

 

I lol'ed

 

 

(btw, I already agree that the turnout is excellent, sure it aint Belgian +95% levels, but more people went to vote then in the last election in the UK, thats says plenty)

 

I laughed at this too.   

 

However..... 

 

 

"It also emerged today that the founder of the petition, which demands a re-count of the referendum because turnout was less than 75 per cent and the margin of victory was smaller than 20 per cent, is a Brexit supporter. 

 

William Oliver Healey, a final year student at De Montfort University, set up the petition in case the Leave campaign lost by s slim margin but ironically it was hijacked by Remain supporters after Thursday's 4 per cent win for Brexit.  

However, among the backers are people in the United States, Germany, France and even Syria.

More than 40,000 signatures come from people who said they live in Vatican City - a tiny state with just 800 residents. Civil servants are now investigating allegations of fraudulent sign-ups."

 

Dailymail; your voice of reason   

 

 

well it is the internet, wouldn't be surprised if some marked themselfes as being from Coruscant...

 

 

I hope the Scottish people put Sturgeon back in her box.  

 

I am not proposing an end to immigration from the commonwealth or its dissolution, merely an Australian style points system where you are allowed in if you are a benefit not a drag on the nation.  Turn up on the beach claiming asylum?  Where did you come from, how did you get here?  So you walked though 6 EU member states for the "safety of the UK" which those states couldn't provide you? Deport them.

 

Again, you are making a pointless argument. Reread my post and then address the points I made - namely that your claim re immigration from EU is false and factualy wrong. I don't care much about what kind of system you want or not, that's entirely up to the UK, personally I couldn't care less, but I do care about untrutfull statements.

 

We are having a load of the third world dumped on us.  EU resettlement and our own government allowing in these people.  See EU resettlement quotas; these haven't come out yet but I am very interested to see what they will be in the coming months; good luck with that Europe.  I don't care; fight for your freedoms, don't go holding out the beggar bowl to others; make the country one that you would want to live in rather than fleeing whatever third world shithole you are from and demanding the state your are resettled in comply to your customs and whims - you are a guest in this country and should act like one.

 

Again, an utrutful statement. EU resetlement wise - Relocations from Greece and Italy by 11 April 2016 to UK add up to a whopping 0.

 

Pledges made (freely) by the UK re refugees amount to a huge and completly overwhelming 2200 refugees. Out fo that pledge 1864 refugees have been resettled. It breaks my heart that the UK can not take care of such incredeably large numbers >.>

 

Seriously, I don't care if you allow no immigrants or only quotas. Do whatever you want it's your country. But do not post untrutful statements.

 

 

 

A case of definitions maybe.  

 

As stated previously I am not against the migration of people that would bring a benefit to the nation, what I am against is illegal EU migration into the UK.  By "immigration from the EU into the UK" I mean the undocumented immigrants that pass through the EU, often illegally as they are bound to document their asylum claims at the first EU country they reach, usually the Southern EU states.  They are to be processed, claims looked over.

 

This often does not happen; I believe its called the Dublin system.  What then happens due to the Schengen area is these people move through the EU unchecked, undocumented and in an uncontrolled manner due to no border controls.  This is a failure of EU law and national law that permits this to happen.  

 

You then have many congregating in northern France that attempt to make the crossing into the UK.  Either by the channel tunnel, boarding UK bound freight lorries, (2), (3), or rocking up in a boat or attempting to swim the channel.  As for the people jumping into the lorries when they arrive in the UK they then become our problem and often the transport companies are left with fines for having migrants aboard when the port of Calais is like Mad Max.  By "dumped on us" maybe a better term would have been "having multiple EU countries turn a blind eye to the legal obligations of the migrants to register themselves and the multiple police forces within the EU turning a blind eye to the fact that these are unregistered migrants and thus have no idea who is in their countries that ultimately end up on our shores claiming asylum".  

 

These people haven't gone partying to Magaluf; had a great weekend and lost their passport.  Total economic migrants; not that I care much for the genuine migrants.  These people are ignored and are not processed in France, nor any other EU nation and are allowed to continue on their way lest they become someone else's (French/transit countries) official problem.

 

The amount of people that have been voluntarily let into the country by my government are spit in the ocean.  The people arriving via the above points or overstaying visas has been put at anywhere between 417,000 and 863,000 as of 2007 by the London School of Economics; this is obviously rather old now with migration having accelerated further in the past 9 years.  

 

Its rather hard to quantify the numbers given the obvious illegal methods of entry used and then these people obviously want to keep under the radar.  

 

I hope my definition clarification of immigration from the EU helps, if not I have little doubt that you will ask further

 

 

Aha! This is more like it. Ya, I agree, this (above) is clearly a failure of the EU and a number of Member States. Fair point, as I more or less with what you said, I have nothing to add

 

 

Nope the post about the 27 is the most likely reality (not an opinion). Me voting as if I were a citizen of UK is my opinion and in such a case I would most likely vote Leave.

 

My point is, you would vote Leave as a citizen, but as a non-citizen your other posts have been condemning the UK for its decision. Which is what i'm confused at

 

Nope the post about the 27 is the most likely reality (not an opinion). Me voting as if I were a citizen of UK is my opinion and in such a case I would most likely vote Leave.

 

My point is, you would vote Leave as a citizen, but as a non-citizen your other posts have been condemning the UK for its decision. Which is what i'm confused at

 

 

I'm not condeming the decision as such, what I profoundly disagree with is the reasoning that was used by the 'leave camp' to propagate the leave vote. Not that the remain camp was unproblematic...

 

So delivering innovation hubs and start up enterprise support, along with training for socially excluded persons to help them get back to the job market is the same as collaborating with Nazis to commit an act of mass murder?    Christ...there is some dumb shit posted here but that really takes the piss.

Obviously, taken completely out of context. You are a British citizen, working in the UK, for the Europeans, enforcing European will. I can understand why many of your own people would not trust you. They view it as a foreign government. Cry xenophobia... that'll work.

 

No....that is directly in the context of you stating that working for the ERDF reminds you of Nazi Collaborators. 

 

Either own your statement, in which case I will chalk you up as an utter piece of human shite, or apologise for it. Don't try some useless chickenshit "it was all out of context" when every person here can see exactly what context it was in and exactly what you said. 

 

 

In other news, Sterling continues its fall, and the Brexit camps promises have gone from promising that everything would be made of gold in our glorious days of freedom to....well actually nothing. Seems there is a clear passage towards a Swiss or Norway type of arrangement were you exclude yourself from the Parliament and Council of Ministers but still pay into the EU budget and accept the overwhelming majority of EU law...hrmmmm. "Take Control" anyone? 

 

Even Boris Johnson is now promising free movement will remain. 

 

Meanwhile 1/3rd of firms surveyed by the institute of directors have announced 1/3rd of their members are planning recruitment freezes...just what this years crop of graduates and school leavers wanted to hear. 

 

 

No....that is directly in the context of you stating that working for the ERDF reminds you of Nazi Collaborators.    Either own your statement, in which case I will chalk you up as an utter piece of human shite, or apologise for it. Don't try some useless chickenshit "it was all out of context" when every person here can see exactly what context it was in and exactly what you said. 

Oh okay... let me make myself absolutely clear. A British citizen working for the European Union, for the purpose of weakening the sovereignty of the United Kingdom, and chaining the British people to European law, reminds me of a Nazi collaborating Jew in Warsaw Poland in 1940. Is that sufficient enough "owning" for you? I'm happy to hear you saved enough of the 30 pieces of silver to get you by until you find something more productive to do.

 

I'm an American, Capitalist, Conservative, Republican, Trump supporter... I already know what you think of me. Will I be asking your permission to post what something reminds me of in the future? No.

 

No....that is directly in the context of you stating that working for the ERDF reminds you of Nazi Collaborators. Either own your statement, in which case I will chalk you up as an utter piece of human shite, or apologise for it. Don't try some useless chickenshit "it was all out of context" when every person here can see exactly what context it was in and exactly what you said.

Oh okay... let me make myself absolutely clear. A British citizen working for the European Union, for the purpose of weakening the sovereignty of the United Kingdom, and chaining the British people to European law, reminds me of a Nazi collaborating Jew in Warsaw Poland in 1940. Is that sufficient enough "owning" for you? I'm happy to hear you saved enough of the 30 pieces of silver to get you by until you find something more productive to do.

 

I'm an American, Capitalist, Conservative, Republican, Trump supporter... I already know what you think of me. Will I be asking your permission to post what something reminds me of in the future? No.

Why couldn't you just call him judas then? Or a traitor, why did you have to bring nazi Germany into it. Is it because the EU reminds you of Nazi Germany? If so I'd like to say trump reminds me of Hitler so have fun with that.

True

 

No....that is directly in the context of you stating that working for the ERDF reminds you of Nazi Collaborators.    Either own your statement, in which case I will chalk you up as an utter piece of human shite, or apologise for it. Don't try some useless chickenshit "it was all out of context" when every person here can see exactly what context it was in and exactly what you said. 

Oh okay... let me make myself absolutely clear. A British citizen working for the European Union, for the purpose of weakening the sovereignty of the United Kingdom, and chaining the British people to European law, reminds me of a Nazi collaborating Jew in Warsaw Poland in 1940. Is that sufficient enough "owning" for you? I'm happy to hear you saved enough of the 30 pieces of silver to get you by until you find something more productive to do.

 

I'm an American, Capitalist, Conservative, Republican, Trump supporter... I already know what you think of me. Will I be asking your permission to post what something reminds me of in the future? No.

 

 

So it wasn't enough to do this folly once, you have to repeat it?

 

Saying that a citizen of the UK is working for the EU in order to weaken UK's sovereignty is nothing more than base slander. It cannot, not even in the realm of fiction, compel you or anyone else to become reminiscent of any aspect of nazism. There is nothing to compare, there are no paralels.

 

I am frankly shocked that you are so intolerant that you would resort to such a base and deplorable claim for no other reason but for the fact that someone does not share your view(s). You should feel ashamed, comparing a supposed (albeit untrue) infrigment of sovereignty to a process of dehumanisation of a people is utterly shameful, insulting and devalues their suffering.

Lys, while I generally see where you're coming from (even if there is much we disagree on), this comparison is totally uncalled for, and even worse, without basis. I'm all for calling a spade a spade, even if that is the unpular opinion, but comparing the EU to Nazi Germany and Icewolf to a nazi official is is not only dishonest, but also objectively untrue.

 

No....that is directly in the context of you stating that working for the ERDF reminds you of Nazi Collaborators.    Either own your statement, in which case I will chalk you up as an utter piece of human shite, or apologise for it. Don't try some useless chickenshit "it was all out of context" when every person here can see exactly what context it was in and exactly what you said. 

Oh okay... let me make myself absolutely clear. A British citizen working for the European Union, for the purpose of weakening the sovereignty of the United Kingdom, and chaining the British people to European law, reminds me of a Nazi collaborating Jew in Warsaw Poland in 1940. Is that sufficient enough "owning" for you? I'm happy to hear you saved enough of the 30 pieces of silver to get you by until you find something more productive to do.

 

I'm an American, Capitalist, Conservative, Republican, Trump supporter... I already know what you think of me. Will I be asking your permission to post what something reminds me of in the future? No.

 

Right...

 

The Programme I work for was signed off by a UK minister. I have to answer to UK officials. I am constantly reminded that I have to answer to the member state. It is now paralysed because we can't find a UK minister willing to make a decision. 

 

The decision of the council I work for to bid for the management of this programme was taken by elected representatives in the UK. The decision to be in the EU was taken by the British government in 1960s and 70s, then by the British people in 1975, then by successive British governments, of both colours, which also signed of on the creation of the structural funds. The same elected government that firmly nailed its colours to the mast in support of the objectives of the structural funds in the 2020 strategy. 

 

How the fuck am I undermining sovereignty? The UK still has its sovereignty. If it didn't then it wouldn't have the ability to leave the EU. The fact it is planning to leave demonstrates that it is still a sovereign nation and nothing I have done has ever undermined that. Now I happen to believe that the best way to make use of that sovereignty is to work with other countries. I happen to believe that after 2 world wars that ripped the world asunder and caused tens of millions of deaths across the world for the sake of petty nationalism we in Europe have a duty to build something better and look for co-operation across our borders rather than ripping them apart. We owe that to the world and to each other. Too many died when we didn't. 

 

The EU is NOT a fucking nazi state. You are an idiot if you believe that to be true. A bloody fool. My family were in Poland in 1939, some made it to France to fight in the Free forces, others ended up in fucking Siberia. They never went home. The communists would have shot them. You wave your bloody capitalist credentials and sneer at socialism as though it makes you a big man. Try growing up in Europe. The scars still exist. The concentration camps. The lines between east and west. The old war defenses littering every beach. The fact you can't build a house in London or Paris or Berlin without disturbing an old bomb.

 

You want to see someone who actually fights communism and dictatorship? Look up the past of Juncker, his time building resistance on Poland. Why is the East so desperate to be in the EU if it is as bad as the old dictatorships? Why would Germany tolerate it? Italy, Spain, Greece, the lands of the old fascist dicatators? Why do they tolerate it? 

 

Because it is not, never has been, and never will be a fucking nazi state. Only a moron would think that. 

 

I actually cannot believe that you would be frankly that stupid. But then you said before you don't care about politics outside America, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are actually just that ignorant about European affairs and really have no idea of the history of Europe, how the EU came about, or what it actually does. But I am not going to forget that without basis you said my job was on the level of gassing jews. You are vile. 

I never called the European Union, Nazi Germany. I never called you a Nazi. I never said you were gassing anyone.

 

I said that you working for the EU could be viewed by some of your people as you are working for the enemy, that your involved too much to have an unbiased view of the issue, and it reminded me of something I saw in a movie. That's it... but like I said when I started the thread... I have no skin in this game, other than my stocks that are experiencing a burp. Nothing changes. You will remain in favor of global law and tying yourself to underachieving nations, and I will remain forever against it. In my opinion, it was just a bad idea, and I feel bad for you.

"A British citizen working for the European Union, for the purpose of weakening the sovereignty of the United Kingdom, and chaining the British people to European law, reminds me of a Nazi collaborating Jew in Warsaw Poland in 1940."

 

Really not comparing someone to a Nazi? 

 

I think everyone here can see what you wrote. 

It does seem to be we cannot have a thread without someone being called a Nazi; its just one of those internet things.

 

 

In a rather British attempt to lighten the mood (Hitler's view on BREXIT - I laughed) and since I didn't let the Nazi's out of the bag first.  

 

I seem to remember one thing about this vote:

 

It's non-binding.

 

Meaning, 100% of the population could vote to leave, and the UK Parliament can say "Bugger off"

I seem to remember one thing about this vote:

 

It's non-binding.

 

Meaning, 100% of the population could vote to leave, and the UK Parliament can say "Bugger off"

 

This is true, however given the ramifications of it I anticipate civil unrest if it is ignored.  That is not me offering up violence or proposing it, merely stating that should Parliament ignore this I feel that things would descend rather quickly into civil unrest +/- major rioting and political turmoil.  

 

If 17,000,000 had voted to leave and 17,000,001 had voted to remain I can guarantee you that the establishment would be taking the result of the referendum as a mandate.

 

If this is ignored it will become clear very quickly that democracy is dead in the UK.  

Europe is stronger together. That's my view in a nutshell. 

RIP EU. I thought you had great potential. Shame on Brits who voted to leave. You're all reactionary idiots. 

Europe is stronger together. That's my view in a nutshell. 

RIP EU. I thought you had great potential. Shame on Brits who voted to leave. You're all reactionary idiots. 

 

There there, there there, we are entitled to different views    

 

Again; if the EU had anything to offer it would have been a differently fought campaign; it would have been a positive campaign as opposed to "if you leave it will bring about the end of days" which we had in spades for months.  

 

Arguably the reacting was done by the legions of foreigners and British tax exiles (ie Richard Branson) that came to our shore threatening us with Armageddon and telling us how to vote or else, we just went to the ballot box and said no thanks.  

 

I don't understand what your issue is. 

There was a lot of positive message. The problem is that Cameron was allowed to dominate and he was too cowardly to go against the eurosceptic parts of the Tory Base and make a pro European argument. Just as he was too cowardly to stay and fix a mess of his own making.

 

And the media effectively just ran the negative campaigns of both sides as a headlines, not helped by the most dishonest campaign in history from vote leave.

What's he point in stayin in Europe, we can't win their cup or their song contest, dont see what the fuss is all about myself

What's he point in stayin in Europe, we can't win their cup or their song contest, dont see what the fuss is all about myself

The song contest alone is a serious argument for leaving!

Well Eurovision has nothing to do with the EU (why you think Russia is in it? ), so you still got that to look forward to

 

So Corbyn just got voted of, hilarious actually knowing that it is "the establishment" that wanted him off after the Labour base voted him in. Very ironic that the same voter base that probably voted "Leave" just cost them their leader

 Well Eurovision has nothing to do with the EU (why you think Russia is in it? ), so you still got that to look forward to

 

It's so bad the spillover alone is enough!