926 replies to this topic

[Sister Midnight]

I jumped on you because it looked like a random act on your part. I was on the Rafay wagon and jumped onto you, Fin because random acts are very scummy. You explained, I returned to Rafay. If I were scum I would not have jumped because I'd have known Rafay was town and been happy to lynch him without calling attention to myself.

I am on my iPad, at work, it's hard to do an analysis right now, but I will try later.

[Rhizoctonia]

 

Jury is still out if the little fight between AbT and FB was real...or just a mere look to distance themselves from each other if 1 is found scum

Oh trust me, my anger with AbT was real and palpable. I still harbor suspicion, however, his quasi-apology at the beginning D3 is believable, at least to me.

I'm 100% with you that Lego is town. I still suspect something about KevinH, even with his role claim.

My suspects are:
1. Canik
2. 1cecream
3. Wolfpacks
4. SM
5. AbT

SM jumped on me hard when I voted for AbT. Was she protecting fellow scum?

 

 

 

The thing with Kevin is he isn't really diverting from his normal self.  He's doing what I've seen him normally do.  And tbh, a lot of times his usual analysis he uses the same each game usually causes suspicion his way.  It's obvious that me and him do not agree or see eye to eye on what he calls "townish" moves, nor him basing his votes solely off them instead of accepting scum will hide in it as well.  What he supplies as his analysis is no great indicator of true town, because every game scum or many scum hide in his so called "townish" moves, which has been proved.

 

But, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt on his PR.  I believe there is likely a tracker role in a game of this size, and the fact no one has came out and disputed it.  Could there be a scum tracker...maybe, I can't say I've played in a mafia game myself who has seen one that I remember.  I would of been more skeptical if when he was about lynched he came out as a VT or something, mainly because that's an easy one to use and doesn't risk saying a role someone else might have.

 

I like your list however FB, as many on there I agree with or have skepticism on.

 

At this point I'm pretty sold on two people (Canik, icecream), but am back and forth on who else makes up it, though I have a list of ones I likely think are. 

 

Where I'm at now is figuring Preston and CoD.  Preston seems to say my suspicion of Canik is unwarranted, and looking to indirectly try to take some heat off Canik.  He also has now voted Wolfpacks and CoD has followed.  So now it's figuring out if this is Preston's way to look to move a lynch off his scum buddy without trying to be blatantly obvious, or is wolfpacks scum.  Needless to say, him being suspicious of Wolfpacks is warranted, as Wolfpacks is as well to me.  If Wolfpacks is town...then Preston jumps from my town list instantly to my scum list and CoD moves up in scum list as well.  To know for sure, lynching Wolfpacks will give me that.  Might be a choice to do in following days, but this day there's a better choice, actually 2 better in my eyes.  

 

But your list currently makes you more townish in my eyes.  I don't see the likes of Lego, D34th, Maz on your list.  Your run ins with SM/ABT to me is either 2 townies fighting which I think happened with Lego and D34th, or possibly 1 or both are scum...at least at the moment with me giving you some town points.

 

I would like to add, look at how quickly the wagons of Lego and Rafay got jumped on, and even Kevin's (3 towns).  Now look at two people I've suspected D3, both haven't gotten near the quick jumping as past which makes me think I'm onto something with both people I've really gone after.  I've also seen 1cecream at the bottom of the forums show he is on the forums now the past 2 days, and nothing.  I remember him having to take his mother for treatment (forget the days), but we're now in day 3 of D3 and not a word.  I still believe (my gut) that not all 4 new players will all get lucky and be town....3 of the 4 are town in my eyes...that leaves 1cecream as the last.  

 

There are now a few people I've yet to see much of today.  I saw Samus reading the topic last night without a response.  I've seen about 1/2 really give their thoughts or suspect someone.

[KevinH]

In fact, let's remind ourselves about who preferred my lynch over Rafay.

 

The last 3 to jump on my wagon:

• Ali bin Turban
• legoboyvdlp
• Mazuurek

[iSocialism]

Finally read through all the D3 pages, Rhiz, you are still the king at making walls. The Canik and Rhiz fighting is interesting, a lot of it seems useless though. Fighting about what they meant, and how they see things. Lego, Maz, Ice you have to more then just be a follower, even if Lego is a town, your action aren't really pro-town. 

Sister Midnight - not adding too much, but is getting more active, Considered VT/NA by Kevin actions. 

Mazuurek - jumps on any wagon, and chases any wagon.

Rhizoctonia - Has been calling people out and asking questions. Back and fourth with Canik

legoboyvdlp - Believe to be town, but a bad one right now.

Ali bin Turban - Has made amends with FB. 

Finster Baby - has been scum hunting IMO. made amends with AbT

Samus - seems pro-town but haven't seem to much deep analysis. 

iSocialism - myself

Wolfpacks - not adding a whole lot to the conversation. 

Chaplain of Death - has been calling people out and asking questions.

1ceCream - nothing to say, double meaning. 

KevinH - claims tracker, hasn't been counter. Wants to lynch inactive, which doesn't sit well. Maybe he wants to buy time for himself. Though he might be gone tonight.

D34THBR1NG3R - quiet, has been targeted by lego since D1

Preston - consider NA/VT by kevin action. started the wagon on KevinH, I kind of helped though. but IMO had a good reason. His posting is very well thought out.

Canik - fighitng a lot with Rhiz, and I see Rhiz as being pro-town.

 

top four town, no order

Kevin, I believe his role claim

CoD, I think he has been asking questions and calling people out.

Rhiz - He's calling a lot of people out, and making a good stir of the conversation. 

FB - seems to be scum hunting, and looks to have town best interest.

 

In the middle

lego

Samus

SM

Preston

AbT

D3ath

 

Top four scum, no order

Wolfpack, hasn't been adding much, and people have been making good cases against him

Maz, quiet, and his jumping from wagon to wagon doesn't sit well with me.

1ce, not adding much, needs to speak up

Canik, the vote on lego seems strange, I also think rhiz has been making some good points in reality only has one vote on him because lego and maz votes for anything.

 

I'm not sure how many scums there are, definitely 4-5

also I'm pretty sure there is only one of each role

The rafay wagon seems pointless, because it happen towards the last 24 hours of the day and had almost double the votes it needed. Analyzing that is hard to do, without using other stuff to do so. In the end every wagon helps, just some are harder than others.

[Chaplain of death]

In my opinion, a townie following the best course of action for the town would have voted for No-Lynch on Day 1 and Rafay on Day 2.
Scum could easily have masqueraded as townies and made those vote, too.
 
However, these are the players that didn't do either:

• Rhizoctonia
• Samus
• Preston
• Chaplain of Death
• Ali bin Turban
• Mazuurek

Townies following KevinH's patented "best course of action", would have wasted day 1, and then lynched an inactive on day 2 who could have been lynched day 1 instead of wasting it. Not only that but knowing now that he was town, you still consider that the best course of action?

Unlike those on the rafay wagon, we were scum hunting, we ended up stuck on you Kevin because you were behaving strangely but your role claim has checked out thus far. Nobody ever voted for Rafay because he was suspicious or they thought he was scum, they voted because he was inactive. Fair enough, as you've said inactive townies hurt us late but don't act like if you were scum hunting on day 2 that you look scummy. That's just ludicrous.

[Preston]

This week has been eating my free time more than usual, so sorry for the relative sparsity of my posts lately - I'm aiming for at least one GOOD post per night to keep current on developments and weigh in my thoughts.

Overall it looks like Rhizo has taken lead on directing wagons for Day 3. Lego and Mazuurek bandwagoning is unsurprising because that seems to be the style for both of them, but we also have FoSes from Finster, CoD and D34TH as well. Ironically Rhizo's own shift makes me think of Rhizo as *MORE* town, because if a scum got traction on a wagon like he did for 1ceCream I would expect them to be more likely to stay on it... he feels more like he is scum hunting, albeit all over the place.

With that said, I'm reading back over Rhizo's posts about Canik... unless I am mis-reading, it all appears to originate from Canik's vote for Lego and the comments he made about Lego being a good target because he has already claimed VT. I can see that rationale as sounding scummy, but some of the analytical weight Rhizo brings is diminished in my eyes by his later posts that feel more like personal attacks than rational collections of information - very similar to what Ali was doing attacking me on D1, which makes me cautious now when I see that pattern again. There's also so much back and forth that even I am having trouble keeping track of it all, and that's me saying that.

Looking at Canik's other posts - for one he points out a Nurse is possible as a backup doctor, which seems to be a reference to Mazuurek's excuse about multiple doctors. But then he turns around and posts suspicion about Mazuurek for voting right after Lego did - a curious reversal. He also suggested Lyner's investigation list, and goes through posting a bunch of people who have been swapping their votes around this game, as part of his back-and-forth with Rhizo - but that does not add much to the conversation as far as I can tell.

I consider Wolfpacks to objectively be more of a serious suspect over Canik at this stage, for three reasons:
1. I have difficulty seeing ANY townie looking at a D2 no-lynch vote seriously - to me that heavily looks like trying to back off to something "safe" and out of the way. This vote stands out as highly unusual to me.
2. His D2 vote after his no-lynch retreat was for Mazuurek - a wagon with zero chance of starting, parking his vote where he won't be on Rafay's list going forward.
3. Wolfpacks attacked Samus for prodding inactives - but at that point it was Kevin who had actually VOTED for an inactive (mazuurek), the same one Wolfpacks voted for on D2 - and Samus had even commented on that, questioning Kevin for voting an inactive. I think Wolfpacks only responded to Samus's post, skipping Kevin's actual VOTE post and Samus's response to Kevin, because Samus actually called Wolfpacks out in his - suggesting that in Wolfpacks' lurking, he is more focused on defending himself than actually scum hunting or even getting his attack targets straight. That feels very scummy to me.

As curious as Canik's post about Lego was, I don't see it in the same way that I see Wolfpacks' D2 votes - that just seems objectively stranger to me, and more difficult to justify.

So with all of that said, I'll touch on Rhizo's questioning my preference for Wolfpacks over Canik:

Preston seems to say my suspicion of Canik is unwarranted, and looking to indirectly try to take some heat off Canik.  He also has now voted Wolfpacks and CoD has followed.  So now it's figuring out if this is Preston's way to look to move a lynch off his scum buddy without trying to be blatantly obvious, or is wolfpacks scum.

I do not consider suspecting Wolfpacks and Canik to be mutually exclusive - both are valid suspects, but I see one as scummier than the other. You yourself have posted about Wolfpacks' behavior, using several of the same points I have already made and reiterated above. I consider suspicion of Wolfpacks to be objectively clearer because it is based on his unusual votes - concrete actions as opposed to interpretations of Canik's Lego vote and associated comments. It also does not help that your later posts about Canik were more Ali-attack-style, per my comments above. So I don't think my focus on Wolfpacks should reduce your focus on Canik - both are on your suspect list even - and if it turns out that those are the two main wagons of the day, we can see what results as people take sides. And if you can offer something more concrete about Canik, I am open to being convinced to shift which of the two deserves attention first.

---

Kevin has also had a few posts since my last:
1. Commented that I spelled out his reasons for releasing his investigation quite well, and that Lynching Rafay was the town thing to do on D2... I'm not fully sure I agree on the latter, but it's his stance.
2. Posted people who did not no-lynch D1 or vote Rafay D2 - i.e. those who do not meet his criteria of what he thinks a townie should have done D1 and D2. Again I am not sure I agree with his assertion about what choices are and aren't pro-town, but this isn't new from him.
3. Listed last three to jump onto his wagon D2 - This may have more merit to it if Kevin ultimately proves to be town - those who were trying to get him lynched.

Per my prior post, Kevin could still very easily be scum at this point - if he produces another confirmed result that will become a less likely possibility, though still not impossible. All we can do at this point is wait and see.

SM had a strange non sequitor post that caught my eye - she says she is watching Mazuurek because he has played town of salem? I know it is loosely connected to this game in terms of knowing what role is what, but I am not sure how that leads to her conclusion. She also is apparently fingering Kevin... she likes fingering

Yeah, I'm getting tired - been reading over the thread for an hour plus now. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

-Preston

[Canik]

Let me start off first by correcting you. My quote of Lyner was not way back on D1, it was not on D1 at all, it was in fat on D2...you know the same day you took your other quotes from. So you're in fact wrong...maybe look it up first next time. So in fact, they're quite close together....less then 2 days between.

I might look it up first next time, if I have the time. It's a pain to look back through 20+ pages before every post. I assumed it was from D1 because he quoted post #8. If I had really seen it and just tried to ignore it, I wouldn't have claimed it was from D1 knowing that was wrong. Either way, in the end Lyner still said Lego was a safe pick for town.

I also find it ironic that in your response, you now look to single out Maz. Maz, who also didn't change votes sporadically as others....yet that's the name that sticks in your head as someone else mostly. Maz, who is someone who is currently on the vote for you. So now, you've successfully singled out 2 of the 3 people currently voting you....that's quite ironic.

lol, trying to suggest I'm reacting in a OMGUS way towards them? This time it's you who would've done well to do your homework. I 'singled out' and voted for Lego before he voted for me. He responded with a classic OMGUS vote, a classic scum tell. But ignore that and try to act like I'm reacting to him and not the other way around.

As for Maz, I've been critical of him long before now. D1 he did switch votes quite a few times and never provided any reasoning. Maybe D2 he didn't switch as much, though it's not simply the amount of times changing votes that I'm criticizing. I try to consider the context of the votes as well. Maz definitely deserves mention if we're talking about scummy voting patterns.

 

[Canik]

Looking at Canik's other posts - for one he points out a Nurse is possible as a backup doctor, which seems to be a reference to Mazuurek's excuse about multiple doctors. But then he turns around and posts suspicion about Mazuurek for voting right after Lego did - a curious reversal.

It's consistent in that they're both facts and I thought everyone should be aware of them. Even if one isn't really in my interests as Maz had already voted for me at the time.

[Wolfpacks]

If Wolfpacks is town...then Preston jumps from my town list instantly to my scum list and CoD moves up in scum list as well. To know for sure, lynching Wolfpacks will give me that. Might be a choice to do in following days, but this day there's a better choice, actually 2 better in my eyes.

If I was you I'd start working on that premise now Rhizo, because lynching me would be a win for the scum and a loss for town.

Admittedly I have been inactive of late which I wasn't in the first game, I think I need to balance that out. I'm at work at the mo so I'll give a better account of myself when I'm home.

[KevinH]

I'm travelling on a 4-day weekend so depending on circumstances, I might be a bit inactive.  

 

We need to lynch someone and Mazuurek is my first choice, but if that doesn't get traction then I'll switch to a wagon with some traction.

[Sister Midnight]

I still do not have the time to do an analysis or properly read everything.  I am going on vacation to Canada on Saturday and I'll be gone for 8 days.  I'm scrambling to get everything done and my concentration isn't great.  I retract my finger from Kev because I tend to believe his role claim.  I don't want to finger anyone until I can sit down and properly read with proper concentration.

[Chaplain of death]

 

If Wolfpacks is town...then Preston jumps from my town list instantly to my scum list and CoD moves up in scum list as well. To know for sure, lynching Wolfpacks will give me that. Might be a choice to do in following days, but this day there's a better choice, actually 2 better in my eyes.

If I was you I'd start working on that premise now Rhizo, because lynching me would be a win for the scum and a loss for town.

Admittedly I have been inactive of late which I wasn't in the first game, I think I need to balance that out. I'm at work at the mo so I'll give a better account of myself when I'm home.

 

 

Considering you all but role claimed a PR (sounds like cop) you might as well come out with your results. You're likely to be killed tonight since you even insinuated that you might be the cop since if scum hit the cop the game is pretty much over, unless Kevin starts getting some lucky hits on tracking.

[Wolfpacks]

Whoa where did I say I was a cop, I never even RC I said lynching me was a win for scum and a loss for town
Just because of that statement I

Vote COD

[Sister Midnight]

Okay, the reality is I cannot get through all the walls of text.  I am getting frustrated by how much people are writing.  especially Preston and Rhiz.  The danger of writing too much is that I start to wonder if you are making walls of text as a distracting device instead of being helpful.    When I think this way it  makes me look at Rhiz and Preston a little differently than I used to.  However I am not getting a scum vibe from either.

 

Suspicious in no particular order:

 

Maz - very quick to jump on wagons, claims to be a newbie, but has experience with the Salem game thingy, which makes him suspicious to me.  He doesn't post much at all, except to join bandwagons, this seems scummy.

 

Canik - looks suspicious, scum vibe, some convincing arguments to vote for him made by Rhyz

 

Icecream - not being particularly helpful, noticiable  scum vibe

 

Wolfy - Has not been playing a townie game at all this time.  I don't know if it is because he's still getting the hang of things or what.

 

Townie feeling In no particular order:

 

Lego - probably town, or else has brilliantly manipulated everyone with his role claim and mod baiting.  He is

 

Kev - role claim is mostly believable, but did he really have to identify who he followed on the seond night?  i don't think so, so I'm not as sure that he's a townie as I might be, nonetheless I lean towards town with him.

 

Finster Baby - seems town, despite his suspicions about me.

 

ISoc - has a town vibe for me atm

 

Rhiz - too verbose, but feels townie

 

Preston - See comment about Rhiz.

 

Chaplain of Death - seems pro town, makes reasonable statements

 

Not getting a major vibe one way or the other from the following (I don't know what I did to the formatting, but whatever):

 

Ali Bin Turbin - just not sure how I feel atm.

 

Samus - unusually quiet, this may be because he's scum, or because he's got a PR or is  VT and doesn't want scum paying any attention to him.

 

D34THBR1NG3R - I don't know what to think of him.
 

[legoboyvdlp]

He is

 

 

I am, you are, he she or it is

 

Were you going to say anything else?

[Sister Midnight]

 

He is

 

 

I am, you are, he she or it is

 

Were you going to say anything else?

 

You simply are, aren't you?  Obviously it was a deep philosophical statement.  That, or I meant to delete "he is" and forgot.

[legoboyvdlp]

I am indeed

 

Anyway, lovely post as always. See you all tomorrow, and if you haven't, VOTE CANIK!

 

Need I tell you why? Read Rhizo's post!

[Chaplain of death]

Whoa where did I say I was a cop, I never even RC I said lynching me was a win for scum and a loss for town
Just because of that statement I
Vote COD

Interesting. So your "accounting" of yourself is to throw a random vote out because of a logical deduction based on what you said. In other words instead of explaining your lurking and getting your thoughts out you are just going to try to divert attention.

[Rhizoctonia]

To be honest, I read your comment Wolfpacks in a different way the first time I read it.  I read it as saying if you were lynched basically you were saying the game would be a win for scum and a loss for town.  Now re-reading it, I can get what I assume you meant, which was town would lose a player and be a "win" per say in getting another townie killed.  

 

I don't have time tonight to go into arguing points, or replying to a few people I want to, will hopefully tomorrow. 

 

But I'll make a general observation and that I'm starting to think Preston/CoD and I maybe hitting on both scum and scum are trying to figure out what to do next.

 

It's now 4 days from the start of D3, and only about 1/2 the players have said a word this day, and a few have made maybe 1 post and nothing more.  I for one understand being busy with RL and such, but honestly...8 players all suddenly being too busy to post in 4 days is not real believable, especially when I've seen most on the forums.  I think at this point we have some scum on the ropes a bit and looking to figure out the best move to make, and or waiting for a RC or hoping no one is lynched.

 

The fact by D2, there were all kinds of votes and wagons by this time with many people on them makes me think both Preston/CoD and I are likely onto something, just different people.  If either of us were voting a town...I would bet we'd see more action and votes happening by now.  What I see is a scum pushing a lynch on a VT while simultaneously looking to push suspicion on Maz as well, with the likes of Wolfpacks and SM a bit looking to hint at Maz being someone to maybe go after and seeing if gains any traction, with now Wolfpacks voting CoD.  Kevin's on Maz as well, but I am just counting that as a misguided town at this point with me still believing his RC.  

 

Anyway, need sleep, good night for today.  

[Wolfpacks]

I knew you would get it Rhizo,

COD how is that random, you had been considered by other people but because I voted you im now random, if you hadn't had question me i'd have probably voted Preston, because he started the wagon on me. Either way I believe both or one are scum and I'm edging my bet your way.