98 replies to this topic

[Lysistrata]

Some rather interesting commentary about the Women's March. First few minutes are about a guy getting banned off twitter, just skip it.

https://youtu.be/AHmmYDyyXXk

What I absolutely can not comprehend is how in THE HELL have Islamists managed to infiltrate feminist circles. Absolutely baffling.

Not just that one... stay tuned to the second woman he's talking about. Thanks for sharing.

[ccabal86]

I'd love to get some input on these observations from our more democratic leaning members. Am I the only one who finds these things objectionable and worried about blatant Islamist infiltration of progressive circles?

[onbekende]

Seeing as it's all americans, I can only vaguely react.

 

Linda Sarsour: sounds like a 2nd or 3rd generation who, as many of this catagory, has only heared the wonders of bygone which her (grand)parents have in their mind. Funnely enough you find these in all groups. Picking out some "progressive" elements of Sharia Law makes that obvious, further instilled by her (perhaps not totally) voluntairy following of the culture surrounding it (hi arranged marriage!). What she does pick out are things you can argue for, but to make them out as "look, with this x things present, all of y mentioned it but a distraction", also an arguement used ad nusea by either side. At the same time our commentator picks out alot of cultural "repulsive" behaviour while sticking it to the umbrella of Sharia Law. As with any culture laws, they are practice in levels of "intensity", both from within the group (family leader for example) as from outside the group (faraway "prophet" spreading his "truth" about the laws). Which also sticks to the notion that while any culture law might be practice in a group, it most certainly never is "the law of the land", don't tell me an american household can't have some "crazy" idea's about child upbringing for example, who knows.

 

Donna Hylton: first notion is that the law has been extended to her by what is the law. Neither makes this her innocent at end of punishment levied nor makes this lose her second chance like our cultural belief / law of the land gives her. Which group puts whom on a pedastel marks their group, no group has only unspoken people following their beliefs. Seems our commentator clearly will be against her for eternity, which is his perrogative.

 

 

 

But let me add as kicker: neither the postive/negative of something inside/outside your influence should mandate/obsolve you from efforts to adjust said thing. Think about all with context and don't forget we are neither completly isolated nor 1 organism. Their is no magical unique solution to a problem, let alone that magical solution to still be correct after time.

[ccabal86]

I think the argument here isn't really about Sarsour, she's far from being unique, and I don't even really want to argue Sharia right now as that would take us WAY off-topic (maybe a discussion for the Atheist thread). What really baffles me is how a person like Sarsour, who advocates for Sharia in one form or another managed the paint herself as a "feminist". How the hell did she win the sympathies of people who are triggered by merely having a door opened for them? There really are no words.

As for Donna Hylton, It's like having a CEO who was convicted of multiple cases of tax and marketing fraud give a lecture on business ethics. It's intellectually dishonest to the extreme.

[onbekende]

first: welcome to the Republican party of massive christian values run by men having 2 divorces. Humanity isn't big on consistancy. Also please use "radfem" for the couple folks who don't want the door opened for them, just feminists are a peg down.

 

second: read first, also LOL

[Shahenshah]

 

How does Trump intends to pay for all the infrastructure development while giving massive tax cuts to the rich?

 

Fed gonna print? given it's the same swamp there still. 

OMG! The corporate tax rate is 35% + up to 12% State and Local... That's about 50% higher than even Cyber Nations allows, and higher than anywhere on the real planet. If you really want to hurt the rich and take their money... lower the corporate tax rate, force them to stay in the USA, and force them to the table to negotiate Union scale wages to their workers. Wow... massive tax cuts to the rich. I think we'll take the jobs and the salaries, and Democrats can keep their "tax cuts to the rich" bumper sticker.

 

The idea is to get more people back in the workforce, making more money, paying more taxes. Paying for that infrastructure is what Republicans in Congress will have a problem with, but it still needs to get done. At least we now have a President that knows that there is more than one way to cook a steak.

 

i. Is 12% state and local for all states or does that vary?
ii. You gave rather vague/"hopefully" answer. I was under the impression, someone such as you would have Trump's economic plan memorized word to word. TBH, that's quite a BS of an answer for someone who runs a no-BS persona here

[Shahenshah]

Extreme vetting starts now: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38777437

 

If I agree on anything with Trump, it's this. The only thing unfair here is how they screw over former US army aides, they should make an exception with those people and their immediate families.

 

I ESPECIALLY like this part:

 

 The order also said all immigration programmes should include questions to "evaluate the applicant's likelihood of becoming a positively contributing member of society."

 

The EU should be taking notes.

The last point you made is important. It's so important that it's already been part of the process. Nice catch tho, you're on to it! bravo!

[Lysistrata]

It varies... that's why I said "+ up to 12% State and Local". The 35% alone blows everything out of the water. I have never been bored enough to read anything on Trump's economic plan. I just listened to him speak and watch the news pretty much 24/7. Nothing gets past the media about Trump without scrutiny.

[ccabal86]

The last point you made is important. It's so important that it's already been part of the process. Nice catch tho, you're on to it! bravo!

Really? Is it? Has Italy stopped importing random African dudes by the tens of thousands off the coasts of Libya? Awesome!

[onbekende]

 

The last point you made is important. It's so important that it's already been part of the process. Nice catch tho, you're on to it! bravo!

Really? Is it? Has Italy stopped importing random African dudes by the tens of thousands off the coasts of Libya? Awesome!

 

Fishing, they are fishing them up.

 

And it has somewhere subsided for now, but thats motly due to winter weather conditions.

[ccabal86]

They're fishing them up, because the smugglers know all too well they only need to get these people a couple of kilometers off shore before they can set off a distress signal and the Italian Navy will come running to take them all the way across the Med.

 

I guess it never occured to anyone to take them back to shore instead. Libyan Government doesn't want them?

 

1. Which Libyan government? Is there one?
2. They could be offered a choice to take them back voluntarily, or we establish a beachhead by military force and take them back regardless. Their pick.

Should be easy-peasy. Of course we'd have to a.) grow some balls b.) have an actual military.

[ccabal86]

I'm just going to post this video here, as it sums up my feelings PERFECTLY. I hope this gives a little more perspective of where I'm coming from

https://youtu.be/hiVQ8vrGA_8

Dave Rubin, recently mentioned in the moroccan terrorist thread expalins

[Lysistrata]

I'm just going to post this video here, as it sums up my feelings PERFECTLY. I hope this gives a little more perspective of where I'm coming from

https://youtu.be/hiVQ8vrGA_8

Dave Rubin, recently mentioned in the moroccan terrorist thread expalins

Thank you for posting this. If only it would catch on...

[onbekende]

They're fishing them up, because the smugglers know all too well they only need to get these people a couple of kilometers off shore before they can set off a distress signal and the Italian Navy will come running to take them all the way across the Med.

 

I guess it never occured to anyone to take them back to shore instead. Libyan Government doesn't want them?

 

1. Which Libyan government? Is there one?
2. They could be offered a choice to take them back voluntarily, or we establish a beachhead by military force and take them back regardless. Their pick.

Should be easy-peasy. Of course we'd have to a.) grow some balls b.) have an actual military.

Well there was talk about a "push back" routine, generally made more difficult by the flimsyness of the boats/rafts used.

 

Alot of immigrants already get put back on a plane to their nation (unless the nation disallows it, which some do, talks and economical pressure are applied to those). Refugees on the other hand are more difficult to return due to the situation on their homefront (quite literal a front usually).

 

1) Think EU is talking with the somewhat "medium" Libyan government in place around Tripoli, even with accords to fund their border/coast guards so they can (try) to stop people getting on tiny boats.

2) Fine, let me drop you off in Ukraine circa 1933, enjoy.

 

I'm just going to post this video here, as it sums up my feelings PERFECTLY. I hope this gives a little more perspective of where I'm coming from

https://youtu.be/hiVQ8vrGA_8

Dave Rubin, recently mentioned in the moroccan terrorist thread expalins

 

Brilliant video that showcases the biggest problem we have today. People use labels and -ism's that don't suit them in the slightest.

 

For instance he rails against "progressive's" because they switched the value's they had of old. Well grats, that means they stopped being progressive! Heck "progressive" may indeed have altered from the value's he placed opun it, but thats cause of the very nature of the word, progressive means to look ahead, to progress. Perhaps I am kinda silly and think progressiveness is currently doing a 180°, but I rather think people are just mishandling the term itself.

 

Nearly any label given by a group of LOUD people these days is wrong, or atleast wrong in term of the actual meaning of the term so described in your run-off-the-mill dictionary. And in relation to people misappropiating such terms, the people who actually fall under these philosophies have to "re-invent" themselfes to actually make a stance again.

 

All the anger of 1 group (who have a high chance of being labelling themselfes wrong) against a political/economical/sociatal philosophy is entirely skewed the wrong way cause they themselfes are being off-label and they people they wish to rally against to are misappropiating the label aswell.

 

The video guy still sounds progressive to me, with left leaning sociatal thinking, right leaning economics and with a core believe in fair and impartial judgement. Perhaps he shouldn't redefine his progressiveness into "classical liberal", cause that just highlights his knowledge that the label of "progressive" is being mangled up beyond recognition.

 

 

- EDIT: my spelling goes out of the window when I start ranting >_>

[ccabal86]

We could argue the semantics, but "branding" is also important in the social discourse, having an appealing "brand" can make all the the difference. People tend to stick around even if the content changes. Movements have and continue to be hijacked, progressivism is just the latest case.

[Shahenshah]

The last point you made is important. It's so important that it's already been part of the process. Nice catch tho, you're on to it! bravo!

Really? Is it? Has Italy stopped importing random African dudes by the tens of thousands off the coasts of Libya? Awesome!

I assumed we were talking about the legal process of migration to USA.

Did you mention Italy and Libya there? Weren't everyone happily bombing the shit out of Libya from Italy and arming the extremists fighting Gaddafi? Oh yes, now you're complaining that shit loads of Libyans are escaping the shit hole you helped create. Cause, meet effect
Yes, Gaddafi was a dick, turns out millitias that were armed, trained and supported by the usual suspects in yet another regime change policy have been bigger dicks.

Seriously, think everyone and yourself will be better off if your armed forces are at your border and not inside someone else's. Let others manage their own shit, but if you do go stir up shit elsewhere and then cry about its effects, I just don't see any merits to that complain.

I dunno about you guys, but my parents taught me that if I cause trouble, I face the consequences and own up tp that shit. They didn't bring me up as a bully. I'm pretty sure you all were brought up to be decent humans.

[Shahenshah]

We could argue the semantics, but "branding" is also important in the social discourse, having an appealing "brand" can make all the the difference. People tend to stick around even if the content changes. Movements have and continue to be hijacked, progressivism is just the latest case.

Similarly, alot of right wing and conservative movements have been hijacked by ultra nationalists, racists, misogynists and neo Nazis.

[ccabal86]

 

 

The last point you made is important. It's so important that it's already been part of the process. Nice catch tho, you're on to it! bravo!

Really? Is it? Has Italy stopped importing random African dudes by the tens of thousands off the coasts of Libya? Awesome!

I assumed we were talking about the legal process of migration to USA.

Did you mention Italy and Libya there? Weren't everyone happily bombing the shit out of Libya from Italy and arming the extremists fighting Gaddafi? Oh yes, now you're complaining that shit loads of Libyans are escaping the shit hole you helped create. Cause, meet effect
Yes, Gaddafi was a dick, turns out millitias that were armed, trained and supported by the usual suspects in yet another regime change policy have been bigger dicks.

Seriously, think everyone and yourself will be better off if your armed forces are at your border and not inside someone else's. Let others manage their own shit, but if you do go stir up shit elsewhere and then cry about its effects, I just don't see any merits to that complain.

I dunno about you guys, but my parents taught me that if I cause trouble, I face the consequences and own up tp that shit. They didn't bring me up as a bully. I'm pretty sure you all were brought up to be decent humans.

 

 

As far as capacities go, the US is a lot more prepared to deal with legal and illegal immigration than Europe ever was and, as I sadly suspect, always will be. I will also agree that the entire "Arab Spring" was spectacularly mishandled by the West, in fact it's the biggest blunder we made since the end of the Cold War. The policy of exporting Democracy has failed miserably.

 

 

We could argue the semantics, but "branding" is also important in the social discourse, having an appealing "brand" can make all the the difference. People tend to stick around even if the content changes. Movements have and continue to be hijacked, progressivism is just the latest case.

Similarly, alot of right wing and conservative movements have been hijacked by ultra nationalists, racists, misogynists and neo Nazis.

 

 

No arguments there. In fact, moving towards extremities on both sides seems to be the norm today and the future looks ever more grim. I don't like where the world is headed and I feel utterly powerless to do anything about it.

[onbekende]

We could argue the semantics, but "branding" is also important in the social discourse, having an appealing "brand" can make all the the difference. People tend to stick around even if the content changes. Movements have and continue to be hijacked, progressivism is just the latest case.

 

Definatly. I am just baffled at the willingness of middle and "soft" sides to be sweeped away into this uphill shoutfest of derogatory terms flung to eachother.

 

 

 

 

We could argue the semantics, but "branding" is also important in the social discourse, having an appealing "brand" can make all the the difference. People tend to stick around even if the content changes. Movements have and continue to be hijacked, progressivism is just the latest case.

Similarly, alot of right wing and conservative movements have been hijacked by ultra nationalists, racists, misogynists and neo Nazis.

 

 

Very true, seems nuance is basically lost on humanity at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

We could argue the semantics, but "branding" is also important in the social discourse, having an appealing "brand" can make all the the difference. People tend to stick around even if the content changes. Movements have and continue to be hijacked, progressivism is just the latest case.

Similarly, alot of right wing and conservative movements have been hijacked by ultra nationalists, racists, misogynists and neo Nazis.

 

 

No arguments there. In fact, moving towards extremities on both sides seems to be the norm today and the future looks ever more grim. I don't like where the world is headed and I feel utterly powerless to do anything about it.

 

 

We can only hope that most of it stays on the internet, not that it makes itself to be a backbone of society.