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Big Donald Just Hit Syria


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#21
DarkFox

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Obama was scared to do anything on his own
 

 

Seriously...? The political environment for Obama was hostile at the time. The main difference from now and then is the Republicans didn't want to strike then, and now they do. Trump has the complete backing of congress and the house, Obama didn't have any backing. It is easy to say

 

What a difference a real President makes.

when Trump is on easy mode. 

 

  Second... Sarin Gas is illegal by international law. We are obligated to act, even when no one else has the courage.

 

 

land mines are illegal as well. Are we obligated to act when people use them? Incendiary Weapons weapons also are heavily restricted and/or banned, which we use by the way. 


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#22
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Seriously...? The political environment for Obama was hostile at the time.

Hysterical... the political environment has been hostile since Ronald Reagan and Robert Bork... it's never even slowed down. The latest example is Neil Gorsuch. Republicans didn't fall for Obama's blame switch because Republicans didn't trust Obama with any military action whatsoever... and neither did the military. If you think Trump is on "easy mode", you haven't been paying attention. He has all of the media totally against him at every turn, and still grinding out his promises. What he wants to defend is at his discretion. Let's see how it all works out. Just keep remembering it could have been Hillary, and things look much brighter.


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#23
DarkFox

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If you think Trump is on "easy mode", you haven't been paying attention. He has all of the media totally against him at every turn, and still grinding out his promises.
 

 

Media cant actually stop you from doing things. 


Let's see how it all works out. Just keep remembering it could have been Hillary, and things look much brighter.
 

 

Yes but I think we can both agree that Obama was better than Hillary will ever be.


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#24
onbekende

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If Obama pulled this shit, you'll would be bitching he didn't go through Congress.  The hypocrisy is astounding.  

 

One sides hypocricy is the other's petty revenge.

 

 

Second... Sarin Gas is illegal by international law. We are obligated to act, even when no one else has the courage.

 

Well for once, the main internation law around chemical weaponry, the Cemical Weapons Convention, states that "Assistance between State Parties and the OPCW in the case of use of chemical weapons" meaning you do what happended with Obama in 2013-2014.

 

Secondly, USA acting on international law for the "common good"? Well there is a first for everything I guess...


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#25
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If I remember correctly, Republican Congress didn't want to go ahead with strikes when Obama asked for the political backing..

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#26
Shahenshah

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I am more intrigued as to why Assad pulled that stunt now, perhaps his Russian overlords wanted to see what Trump would do? perhaps Assad did it on his own? Perhaps even Assad wasn't fully in the loop (with various stages of russians being in or out)?
 
Not that much changes on the ground, the airfield hit was a minor one (and still operational from what I hear) and it wasn't like chemial attacks were the backbone of Assad's whole strategy.
 
Basically you just pegged the bully's sideburns cause he brought a nailed baseball bat to a fight, in the mean time you don't care for his brass knuckles...
 
 
EDIT: HAHAHAHAHA, look what I just stumbled opun, someone go ask Obama to claim a copywrite infraction! (I will leave the talks about the "safety" of that room for US posters to fling poo at :D)


It's not like US backed rebels haven't used chemical weapons in the past.

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#27
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Let's see how it all works out. Just keep remembering it could have been Hillary, and things look much brighter.
 
 
Yes but I think we can both agree that Obama was better than Hillary will ever be.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more with that statement. I actually really liked Obama as a person. As a president, ehh...

But guys we gotta remember that being the most powerful person on the planet isn't a walk in the park. I don't agree with everything Trump says or does but honestly Obama wasn't getting a third term and we had to choose between Trump and a complete criminal.

This will be an interesting four years.
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#28
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It's not like US backed rebels haven't used chemical weapons in the past.

 

 

Haven't you heared, it only rains mana from the sky, nothing else!

 

that and internet.


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#29
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If I remember correctly, Republican Congress didn't want to go ahead with strikes when Obama asked for the political backing..

We have already discussed this. I'm a Republican. Obama declared he would do something if Assad used chemical weapons. Assad used chemical weapons. Everything Obama ever did was politics. Every move he ever made, the politics were calculated in the move. He didn't need Congressional approval to hit Assad. He needed political cover on his anti-war left... so he could tell his base the Republicans made him do it. Republicans would rather chew glass than ever give Obama more power to screw over our military. He didn't come to us with Libya... and that blew up in his face. No Sir... we would not be his bitch.

 

Maybe everyone is too young to know, but Bill Clinton never went to Congress for approval on everything he did in Kosovo. I wonder if everyone knows that we are still at war with North Korea? We have been at war with North Korea since 1950, and it has never ended... it's been a cessation of hostilities, not a peace treaty. Donald Trump doesn't even need Congress to take Kim Jong-un out... he has openly threatened the USA with nuclear weapons. NK has been a thorn in our side for decades, and I believe Trump has decided it's on him to end it. "God bless America... God bless the entire world".


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#30
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Stupid. Just stupid. The one thing I liked about Trump and he couldn't even keep that campaign promise. 

 

 

I don't if this is over yet the Russian navy is approaching.

They have to act like they're doing something, or no one anywhere else will fear them. It's either send a ship to wave at us, or abandon Syria... they sent a ship to wave at us. It will be best for them to negotiate the removal of Assad and the end of ISIS, but I don't know how the Syrians feel about Russian influence in their country. We shall see.

 

Why is removing Assad so important? Why not just leave him alone and let the Syrians solve their own problems?

Also, Syria is a very valuable strategic ally to Russia as well as their biggest arms buyer. I wouldn't expect Russia to stand by and watch. 

 

 

This is not something that shouldn't be policed nor dealt with solely by the US.  

First... Congress is not Commander in Chief, the President is. The President can use military force in a limited action without approval of Congress. It's been this way since WWII.

 

Second... Sarin Gas is illegal by international law. We are obligated to act, even when no one else has the courage.

 

I like Rand Paul too, and I respect your Libertarian position on this issue. Opinion noted, but Trump chose a different path.

 

This isn't the first time chemical weapons have been used in Syria. The only reason we're even doing this now is because the rebels lost Aleppo and now we have nobody to fight our proxy war. So we're starting a whole new direct war. As if we didn't have enough wars already. 

Iraq 3.0 here we come. 


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#31
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Why is removing Assad so important?

He's not... and I hear everything you say, but Assad used those weapons again. Donald is trying to stop the flow of refugees, and Assad's cruelty is driving them out of Syria. They could have continued their war while we take out ISIS... but he used those weapons again. He has been told with force not to do that again, not on Trump's watch. They were testing Trump, and he answered their questions. Let's hope their questions have been answered.


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#32
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/09/no-peace-in-syria-until-assad-is-ousted-says-nikki-haley

Looks like they'll be reverting to policy that has failed and blew up on the face for past 20-30 years in the region. There are two forces, on ground, capable of knocking out ISIS, the govt Army, which is now the target of West and Kurds, some of whose factions are involved in terrorism in Turkey, so, they'll be locked out the moment Turks decide they're becoming a proxy too strong that will be used later to destabilize Turkey. Everyone else are ISIS and AQ wannabes.

So, we're back to square one. Frankly, the policy appears to be to keep Syria in perpetual destability.

When McCain starts to support Trump, you know something is actually wrong.
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GOP could've called Obama's bluff and taken the initiative but like everytime, they couldnt produce any result apart from making lots of noise and calling their own bluffs.

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#33
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I think I just got a concussion from face palming so hard.


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#34
onbekende

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Make it a Chinese protectorate, Xi gets Syria if he stops producing cheap mass-merchandize!


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#35
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Its been a few days as I have been busy and wanted time to organize my thoughts on everything. Some of you may consider comments I make biased in favor of Conservative leadership, but when it comes to Historical/Military/Political affairs, I strive my hardest to adhere to truth even if it may not appear that way on the outside. So let me offer some explanation as to my support of Trump's recent strike in Syria, and why I opposed Obama's "Red Line" (which subsequently turned out to be solely pure rhetoric).

 

Lets go back in time to 2011. The "Arab Spring" has begun, inflaming parts of North Africa and the Middle East. Libya became one of the countries engulfed in civil war. Obama declared to the world "Muammar Gaddafi must go". NATO agrees to start military operations and the UN institutes a No Fly Zone within Libya. Now, a No Fly Zone traditionally means any unauthorized aircraft (in this case Libyan aircraft) will be shot down. Also included were measures for further actions to prevent attacks on civilian targets. So now all Libyan aircraft more or less remain grounded and unused. But gradually the attack orders changed. It went from strictly targeting flying aircraft to now including Anti Air defenses. The reason being these defenses could kill or severely damage NATO air assets. This was a relatively reasonable choice as this tactic is still mostly 'defensive' based. The conflict drags on and the Rebels have barely gained any ground. So the US and NATO begin targeting armored vehicles, with tanks being the main target. The explanation being tanks have the possibility of destroying NATO helicopters (while this statement is technically true, the age of Libyan tanks, primitive fire control systems, and inadequate training make the possibility of this ever occurring remotely impossible). The Rebels begin gaining more ground due to increased NATO assistance but still are falling short of acquiring victory.  Experiencing mounting frustration over Rebel setbacks and length of conflict, so began the task of decapitating the head of state to institute regime change. Gaddafi's convoy eventually got caught in an airstrike and he was quickly captured by rebel forces and executed. Expecting immediate peace, Obama was surprised when 2 main factions vied for control of Libya and in 2012 a US Ambassador is murdered. Libya still to this day has a power vacuum and has only partially recovered from its civil war. This whole thing began as a No Fly Zone and while suffering from mission creep, grew exponentially into a major military commitment. Obama was never given Congressional approval for the 7 month military intervention in Libya.

 

We now jump to 2013. The Syrian Civil War is ongoing. Obama goes on TV and proclaims the infamous "Red Line". He implied that if Syria were to use chemical weapons, the US would retaliate. Assad ignores this threat and uses them anyway in multiple gas attacks. Now this is where things get a little odd. Obama chose to not act immediately. He could have retaliated quickly (using a method similar to Trump's recent cruise missile strike), but instead he waits 10 days and then proceeds to talk to Congress and our allies. But Obama also mentioned that when he asked Congress for approval, he stated he legally didn't even have to ask Congress to approve. He could have launched his own small strike and be done with it. The UK subsequently back out of helping, and Congress declines to give any form of support. Obama goes back on TV and says maybe he will launch a cruise missile strike from several US ships stationed off the coast of Syria, but admits it would be barely be anything, it would be a very minor attack. The statement was incredibly vague and Obama backs down quickly from this idea. Shortly after this, Russia offers to remove Syrian chemical weapons if the US does not retaliate militarily. Obama saw this as a lifeline and way out of the hole he dug, so he accepted the deal.

 

I am very glad Obama did not launch a strike on Syria. His proposed missile strike would have done next to nothing, given the rhetoric he used as it being something along the lines of 'barely anything and minor', so in all seriousness why bother at all if no real objectives will be achieved. It reminded me a lot of Bill Clinton's Operation Infinite Reach, which launched cruise missiles into Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998. Nothing noteworthy was achieved during this Operation and it is worth bringing up it happened 3 days after Bill Clinton's testimony on the Monica Lewinsky scandal. It was an easy way out for him even though the targets were failures and accomplished little. If Obama had agreed to launch strikes into Syria he just just revealed his hand in regards to a possible strike. Unlike Libya, Syria has a more modernized Anti Aircraft defense. With these defenses on high alert and given the length of time Obama took to consider launching a strike, its very feasible numerous US cruise missiles would have been shot down, and any aircraft entering the area would need Electronic Warfare equipped planes capable of jamming Radar, and stealth aircraft such as the F-22, B1, and B2 would had to have been used. Syria knew we would have been coming and with ample time to prepare, it would have reduced US effectiveness of strikes on military targets. And who knows how this would have even ended. The thought of establishing a No Fly Zone is Syria was tossed around a couple times but got shelved rather quickly. But with how badly Libya had been recently handled, no one wanted to see mission creep escalate itself to the point of another "Libyan style intervention".

 

In contrast, Trump's swift action demonstrated to Syria not to use banned weaponry, and it did so in a confined appropriate manner. The attack destroyed multiple planes (even after those at the base were warned right before the strike, they still didn't scramble planes off the base) and severely damaged the airbase (check out the before and after satellite photos of the airbase). Overall this military action was a success, something I doubted Obama was capable of achieving. Obama has never struck me an effective military leader. He promised to quickly pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan upon winning his first term and never did. He started a small operation in Libya and escalated it into a massive operation, and I felt his involvement within Syria would have suffered the same fate.

 

To help reiterate my point of non bias, I do feel that any further military action in Syria should be given Congressional approval or at least establish some clear guidelines. The Syrian Civil war has a chance of igniting a powder keg with Russia so it seems logical to write up a concrete plan of action. Even though it isn't legally required, it would still be the 'proper' procedure for a President who wishes to not risk starting a grave, international incident.


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#36
Shahenshah

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Regardless of the geopolitical mess, killing civilians with chemical weapons is a no no.

Tho, I do wonder ifs ok instead if they're killed with Russian and American conventional arms?

:Thinking:

The world's response to last night's military action in Syria was very telling.
 
European leaders, as well as the leaders in key middle-eastern states (Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc), were very supportive of the action that President Trump took. Meanwhile Russia, China, and Iran were critical of the move. It's shocking I know that the majority of the world responded positively to these actions with the exception of those who are being challenged by Trump.
 
In addition to the above, there have been dozens of reports from Syrian nationals who have praised Trump for taking action against Assad.
 
It is nice to see decisive action for a change instead of idle threats.


To be honest, there were dozens of reports of Syrian Nationals praising Putin when he entered the arena.

The response of the world has been along the party lines, those opposing Assad praised it, those supporting him denounced it. Neutrals kept shut or put out a token statement.

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#37
onbekende

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Something extra for dessert.


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#38
Shahenshah

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General: "President Sir, The rebels aren't playing along in Crimea, our ships are locked and loaded to strike them".

Trump: "You have my approval, please proceed to strike" *ISIS gonna regret this, what a beautiful cake, like my daughter, gotta tweet about this while I take a dump*.

An hour later, Russia strikes back, we're in WW3.

Meanwhile,
Trump tweets: I had the most beautiful cake ever folks, it was made in America, by Americans 1/2

2/2 you gotta buy original American stuff folks, not Fake like media and Chinese goods. MAGA.

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#39
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^lol


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