What concerns me the most is... what was Mandalay Bay armed security doing when this was happening? I heard a 911 call from the guy that was in the room on the 31st floor, right under the room when the guy started shooting out the windows. I know when things like this happen 5 minutes feels like an eternity, but I have also heard that he had 20-30 minutes of uninterrupted time to rain hell down on those people. Some kind of action by those at the scene could have prevented a lot of pain. I'm sure it will all come out during investigation.

 

Las Vegas Metro PD was all over this and they called in Henderson PD as well. My friend in Henderson PD was home at the time because he is graveyard shift and was not on duty yet. He was watching it on TV like the rest of us, and was not called in. I think they waited for SWAT to deal with it, and the dude killed himself before they got to him. They got the girlfriend... let's bring back waterboarding and follow the money... that usually explains everything.

I think they waited for SWAT to deal with it, and the dude killed himself before they got to him. They got the girlfriend... let's bring back waterboarding and follow the money... that usually explains everything.

 

From what I've read online, he had a camera covering the exterior of the door to the room he had rented.  When he saw SWAT coming, he took his own life.  Haven't seen an "official" police report or conference that confirmed that, just remember seeing that on a couple of news sites.

 

As for the girlfriend, I thought I heard she returned willingly from the Philippines and is being questioned by the FBI.  Doesn't sound like waterboarding will be necessary.

Glad to know you're okay Lys. Horrible horrible news!

 

Baffles your mind someone's just sitting there unloading 100s? of rounds uninterrupted for so long all by himself. 

 

A little bit of vigilance could have avoided this tbh. Someone ought to have noticed one guy taking up bags now and then.

 

 

Doesn't sound like waterboarding will be necessary.

That was a joke... following the money was not a joke. This guy was a heavy gambler, was transferring huge amounts of cash, and made several large wagers before he did this. He could have been in a lot of trouble with powerful people, in great debt, was paid, or blackmailed, to do it. Since the Trump election, and the appointment of Neil Gorsuch to the SC, the left has gone completely bats with the nauseating feeling that they are losing everything they have done to destroy our country, our history, and our freedom. What better way to move outrage to gun control, and punish those that elected Trump, at the same time?

 

The girlfriend is the key to unlocking the mystery. It was too convenient for her to be out of the country at the time. Right now in my mind, nothing is off the table, and anything is possible at this point. There are too many unhinged individuals out there that would like nothing more than open civil war, and willing to do anything to achieve it. It's happened before, and no one wants to talk about that, but there was a time when several states declared in an extremely loud voice, that if Abraham Lincoln was elected, they would leave the USA. They were not joking either.

 

I can't help but believe this man wanted to kill a large number of Christian Conservative white people because that's what you will find at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, and I'll believe that until they can come up with another motive that makes any sense whatsoever.

 

One of the first things I heared about the perpetrator was his love for country music, guess what the festival was all about...

 

And grats, you just added politics to his alleged motive, which if true would only paint him in an even more clinical psychopathy then already present by just the actions itself. For gods sake the current info on him screams Republican: older retired white gentlemen, massive gun collection, penchant for country (cause we all know democrats/other don't enjoy this music), massive pick-up truck (cause we all know dems can't drive 4x4 and above), possible filipino mail order bride (cause we all know dems just go to hookers, reps atleast try to be christian), ...

 

yes the italics are jokes and stereotypes.

 

 

And grats, you just added politics to his alleged motive

I believe this was an act of terrorism. The definition of terrorism is "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims". So if they are to call this a an act of terrorism, there must be a political motive. It's not me that will determine that, but it's what I believe until it's proven otherwise. If it's not an act of terrorism it must be an act of criminal mass murder. That would mean it didn't matter and we have to stop calling it terrorism. So, what do you think it was?

I'm leaning towards mass murder, but we'll see...

I'm leaning towards mass murder, but we'll see...

I would be satisfied with that determination, but where would that leave the lefties and their "background checks" argument? They would have to draw some kind of invisible line somewhere that decides that this guy was too crazy, or too evil, to own his guns, and then attempt to enforce that line on everyone else.

 

This is why I believe it was a terrorist attack. I have to think like Democrats to understand it, but this is the only time the gun control advocates get any traction on restricting the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. Trump will not do it, Gorsuch will not do it... so the only way to do it is the people have get mad enough to do it themselves. How can people get mad enough to do it? Stage a horrible mass murder using modified semi-automatic weapons. It had to be a white guy or it would damage their racist lies. Attack a white Christian group so you're not killing your own. This is not rocket science.

 

I heard a guy from Australia this morning talking about their gun control. He says all the good guys don't have guns anymore, but all the bad guys still have all their guns. Sorry, I don't want that happening here in the USA.

I try to look at all things rationally when it comes to things like this. I like to remove politics from it and just believe it was a guy that was deeply disturbed for one reason or another and that he snapped and planned (very well I might add) an extensive way to get back at society as a whole through the use of larger then life means (add a couple of explosions and I think he would have done that.) All that said I can not overlook the idea that it was in fact a politically motivated job or at the very least allowed by someone in power, I try not to be a conspiracy theorist but in times like these I find it hard not to.

 

1) The amount of firearms, ammunition, electronics, the amount of money needed to rent out two rooms at a high end luxury hotel, to transfer $100,000+ more money to an offshore account for his girlfriend, is an awful lot of money for a retiree.

 

2) The fact he was able to rent two rooms in a high end luxury hotel and not have some sort of suspicions raised is a bit alarming.

 

3) The fact he was able to move that large amount of ammo and weapons into the rooms as well as establish electronic equipment.

 

4) The fact that many of the firearms were legally obtained and were "Modified" weapons that were not originally intended for auto fire but had been modified with "bumper stops" which made them more rapid fire then without.

 

5) The fact that the subject had 0 known mental illness's, 0 arrests, 0 signs to anyone that he was having a mental issue or come apart, and the fact that he has had 0 work place incidents reported against him.

 

In other words we have a guy that is retired spending a great deal of money and time and effort, a hotel that lacks basic understanding of security apparently or at the very least checking to see why a man needs two rooms and enough electronic equipment to put the CIA to shame, and a lot of modified weapons that are at this time being said to have been bought legally along with large amounts of ammo.

 

PLUS lets not forget that no sooner did the incident happen that the Democrats along with Hilary pushed to have Congress reintroduce a bill that would have started a chain reaction against the Second Amendment.

 

All this put together makes me believe this was done in order to bring power to the anti-gun movement as well as the Liberal anti-2nd Amendment movement.

 

This is just my opinion though...and like butt holes everyone has them and they all stink so just remember that. 

I'm leaning towards mass murder, but we'll see...

Isn't it terrorism under the state law?

 

But, regardless, we know of the arrogance and bias regarding the word 'terrorism'.

 

 

--

 

An excellent opinion piece on NYT:

https://www.google.ae/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/opinion/stephen-paddock-las-vegas-terrorism.amp.html

Here is the police response timeline for those interested.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/las-vegas-swat-team-waited-one-hour-entering-killers-hotel-room/

 

 

Isn't it terrorism under the state law?

 

It may be, but the FBI is investigating, so it falls back to federal law for them to classify it.

 

Federal law requires a political motivation to be classified as terrorism.  Since we still haven't heard the motive, they're not going to classify it as terrorism (although, knowing motive in the past was political still didn't cause them to classify the act as terrorism, so not holding my breath either way).

They held an extensive press conference last night to put to bed misinformation. I was concerned about Mandalay Bay Security, and as it turns out, it was a Mandalay Bay Security guard that spooked this guy into ending his own life after 10 minutes of shooting. The guard was the first to the door, and he was wounded when this guy shot through the door, and then he killed himself. An hour after the shooting stopped, SWAT entered the room... they needed to make sure the room wasn't rigged to blow up. I'm satisfied with how they handled the entire event, but it was a security guard that got there first, caused the end of the shooting, and not a single shot was fired by anyone but the perp. Bonus points for Mandalay Bay Security!!

 

They are all hot on banning this "Bump Stock" modification. I have never heard of it myself because I'm not that much into guns, but I guess it's a simple modification, the effects are deadly, and it has a good chance of jamming. The big problem is how to ban a technique? You don't really have any control of the tool until after it's been used, and then of course, it's too late.

 

 

I have never heard of it myself because I'm not that much into guns, but I guess it's a simple modification, the effects are deadly, and it has a good chance of jamming.

 

The bump stock is a very specific device.  It replaces the standard stock on a semiauto rifle, and makes rapid firing much easier.  The problem is, this is a device to do that.  I'm seeing people online that are basically saying "yeah, we can do that without a bump stock, here's how".  Doesn't take a bump stock to do it.

 

Also, not just better chance of jamming, but really really lowers accuracy.  Worked well for the murderer in this instance, with essentially a pray and spray attack into a crowded area.

 

 

 

The big problem is how to ban a technique?

 

Exactly. I read someone was able to do this using the belt loops on their pants or a shoestring (didn't see a video of it, so it's questionable to me).

 

Feinstein and Sanders have already introduced a bill to ban the bump stock by name, but with the vague way it's written, could also make illegal replacement triggers that have a lower pull weights that are used in competition.

Feinstein and Sanders have already introduced a bill to ban the bump stock by name, but with the vague way it's written, could also make illegal replacement triggers that have a lower pull weights that are used in competition.

It seems to me they just want to pass some legislation for the sake of the appearance of doing something, when they really end up gumming up enforcement and nothing is accomplished in the end. Democrats are always diving into issues hot and bothered to change things, but rarely consider the consequences of that road to hell they pave with good intentions.

You can modified the trigger and spring too easily allow the AR model to become fully auto. It's illegal though, and so on....

From what I've understand this guy was wealthy and was a big gambler. He probably had help delivering the bags to his room by an hotel employee(s). Those poor employees though knowing that they helped the guy, and only if they would had noticed. It's Vegas though, I bet people bring a lot of strange with them that it wasn't too out of the norm for a whole bunches of bulky heavy bags.

There is no gun ban out there that can prevent pure evil.

 

 

There is no gun ban out there that can prevent pure evil.

 

I'd actually change that to there is no ban or law out there that can prevent pure evil.

 

There are truly evil people out there, and the best you can do is be prepared to defend yourself in case the worst happens.

 

 

 

You can modified the trigger and spring too easily allow the AR model to become fully auto.

 

I gonna claim ignorance here.  Have heard people say that, but usually it's people that have no idea about guns (like Kevin De Leon and his "ghost gun" that can fire faster than a squad automatic weapon when you do the math on his numbers)

 

 

For anyone that is curious about bump stocks, the ATF determined them to be legal in 2010.  This is the best description I've heard of why the ruled the way they did.

 

The bump stock replaces the stock on the semi-automatic rifle and uses the firearm’s recoil to “bump” the trigger back into the finger, which causes it to fire more rapidly when compared to manual shooting.

While fully automatic weapons have been illegal since 1986, bump stocks are legal because the trigger is still manually pulled for each subsequent round.

 

 

He probably had help delivering the bags to his room by an hotel employee(s).

He checked in on Thursday, and had 4 days to move his hardware. It's not like he had to load everything on a cart, and I doubt he would trust anyone carrying anything that was not in on it with him. I hear he had 1,600 rounds of ammo... that's a lot of metal to carry.

 

I don't see an effective way to ban the "bump stock" other than points to politicians for passing a law. It would be right up there with banning cruise control by using a brick on your gas pedal.

True wasn't really thinking of that.

Bump stocks are just a laughable item for me. I'm a gun owner, and would never buy that or want someone around me with it. It's sounds like something someone would buy to be the "cool guy." Which means the careless one. It's sounds like something that's hard to control, and not highly accurate. It might have actually prevented many lives from being loss. Side note, Has anyone seen anything about what the may cause of injuries were from. Such as from being hit or trampled on?

 

As for the modification to the "trigger" it's more like the hammer. All you are doing is modifying it to stop the hammer from catching which would require another trigger squeeze. It's not easily done, you have to have the know hows and tools. Nothing that youtube doesn't have information on though.

 

And grats, you just added politics to his alleged motive

I believe this was an act of terrorism. The definition of terrorism is "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims". So if they are to call this a an act of terrorism, there must be a political motive. It's not me that will determine that, but it's what I believe until it's proven otherwise. If it's not an act of terrorism it must be an act of criminal mass murder. That would mean it didn't matter and we have to stop calling it terrorism. So, what do you think it was?

 

 

To strike terror indeed, but I wouldn't (as of yet) add a political view to it. I'd rather lean towards a social slant, something had to give this person the idea that his actions were needed. We also can't rule out a pure psychological motive, a basic psychosis can also be the trigger.

 

 

I'm leaning towards mass murder, but we'll see...

 

Depends on motive really, the effect is the same but motive could be devoid of "hurt people" and be "hurt society". Then again we are more talking terminology here and don't think we need that (yet?).

 

 

I heard a guy from Australia this morning talking about their gun control. He says all the good guys don't have guns anymore, but all the bad guys still have all their guns. Sorry, I don't want that happening here in the USA.

 

 

 

 

Funny their gun violence rate is that much smaller in comparison the US (by a factor of 10). Specifically look at homicides (2x for US), all the others are kinda the same percentage wise but that one is a clear difference. It is also the one with the "bad guy with gun" deal.

 

Yes many gun violence acts can be detained/halted/averted by a "good guy with gun", but the question should be if that difference outweighs the one were it didn't happen (for various reasons, I'd guess in las Vegas some concert visitors were packing aswell, they didn't help one bit). It is that much more a societal discussion that it is a pure numbers one.

 

 

*SNIP*

 

 

His money came from his "vast" property collection, guess his bookkeeping job gave him both good insights and spending cash to build it.

 

 

Yes many gun violence acts can be detained/halted/averted by a "good guy with gun", but the question should be if that difference outweighs the one were it didn't happen (for various reasons, I'd guess in las Vegas some concert visitors were packing aswell, they didn't help one bit).

There are many things that are not allowed in all shows, concerts, and sporting events... and everyone is searched before entry. I have never tried to bring a gun in when I went to see the Eagles, Rush, Journey, The Jersey Boys, Tom Petty (RIP), or even Disneyland, so I don't know if there is any way possible to get a gun through. I seriously doubt it.

 

And YES! Every time a "good guy with a gun" stops the bad guy, it outweighs any time that it didn't happen. I strongly wish that everyone would stop complaining about guns long enough for everyone to vote on repealing the 2nd Amendment. Please! Someone introduce the repeal so it can get soundly defeated by the people... maybe then we can stop the insane arguing about guns.

True wasn't really thinking of that.

Bump stocks are just a laughable item for me. I'm a gun owner, and would never buy that or want someone around me with it. It's sounds like something someone would buy to be the "cool guy." Which means the careless one. It's sounds like something that's hard to control, and not highly accurate.

Back when the Slide Fire stock first came out, I wondered what the big deal was. So I researched it, watched a few videos, and my interest quickly went away. Rather impractical and its not the most reliable. There is a certain rhythmic movement to it which requires a great deal of consistency. How someone managed to use it effectively to murder a bunch of people is beyond me. This guy must have practiced for a few years and expended a great deal of ammo to train with it. My evaluation is that it is just a range toy, and its employed use as a self defense tool is horribly unpredictable.

 

 

There are many things that are not allowed in all shows, concerts, and sporting events... and everyone is searched before entry. I have never tried to bring a gun in when I went to see the Eagles, Rush, Journey, The Jersey Boys, Tom Petty (RIP), or even Disneyland, so I don't know if there is any way possible to get a gun through. I seriously doubt it.

Unless you are physically searched or have to go through metal detectors, its practically impossible to be caught carrying a weapon. A lot of venues will search bags and backpacks, but they won't physically search you. The few concerts I have attended only searched bags. I've been to Disney World a few times, and they always check bags. Within the past few years, they now randomly select people going through the entrance for an additional screening. This consists of emptying out your pockets and going through a metal detector. They say its randomized who gets picked, but I believe there is some formula. My wife or I would get picked everyday or every 2 days, and then we would stopped being picked for a few days, and then it would start up again.

 

 

The few concerts I have attended only searched bags.

I never carry a gun around, although I have seriously considered it, but it's another one of those things you have to get permission to do, and if I have to go through any government bullshit... I'll just pass. I hate red tape, and I hate someone telling me what to do, so it's best for me to avoid it. Recently took my grandson to Disneyland, and that was ridiculous. It was worse than getting on a plane.

There are many things that are not allowed in all shows, concerts, and sporting events... and everyone is searched before entry. I have never tried to bring a gun in when I went to see the Eagles, Rush, Journey, The Jersey Boys, Tom Petty (RIP), or even Disneyland, so I don't know if there is any way possible to get a gun through. I seriously doubt it.

.

So wait, that search wouldn't be an infraction on your hallowed 2nd amendment? Even going further and denying entry when in possession of a weapon isn't an infraction? Clearly I am drawing arbitrary lines now but atleast know you do the same...

.

And YES! Every time a "good guy with a gun" stops the bad guy, it outweighs any time that it didn't happen. I strongly wish that everyone would stop complaining about guns long enough for everyone to vote on repealing the 2nd Amendment. Please! Someone introduce the repeal so it can get soundly defeated by the people... maybe then we can stop the insane arguing about guns.

.

And any time neither "good guy" or "bad guy" was present all together? Wouldn't that even be that much better?

 

And for the umptienth time, nearly everyone discussing this want an ADJUSTMENT to the reach of the 2nd amendment, heck it doesn't even have to be changed in the amendment itself. Just a clarification on what is and isn't allowed, a clearer and (for some) saner amount of gun ownership is all that is sought. Heck find me 1 post where I advocated for complete gun proliferation, let alone me stating the US should do this (I specifically start with the notion that a "gun-free" US is a myth, nor that I would even consider it possible).

 

A brilliant and simple notion many construct fir this is coupled with your even sacredest 1st amendment, for instance you aren't allowed to yell "fire" in a theatre. The notion carries with it the understanding that certain limits are already present on the 2nd amendment, or are you gonna tell me you folks hoard tanks and other military equipment the US army has?

 

 

So wait, that search wouldn't be an infraction on your hallowed 2nd amendment? Even going further and denying entry when in possession of a weapon isn't an infraction?

Don't confuse the 4th Amendment with the 2nd.

 

The 4th prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. The cops can't break your door down and go through your stuff without a warrant.

 

A business can refuse to allow things inside the establishment... like a theatre can prevent you from bringing in a Coke, or video recording the movie. I remember when I had to sneak in a camera into concerts, and just try to go into a night club with your own bottle of Jack Daniels. Some Starbucks won't allow anyone in with a gun... I worry about the guy that brings in the gun and doesn't care what their stupid sign says.

 

I live in Las Vegas, and it's very gun friendly here, but I hear horror stories about cities like Washington DC, where it's illegal to have a gun in your home? I mean seriously... that's clearly unconstitutional.