Besides, something being commonplace doesn't make it acceptable, and there's jack shit that is OK about a culture where there is the expectation or unspoken requirement to perform sexual favours. 

 

Exactly. But the thing I was trying to point out is that people who accept having sex for a getting something in return are equally as responsible as those wanting it for this culture. 

 

 

And this is why we can't have nice things, people equating "a look" to "rape some teenage movie stars".

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

And now we're back to "and they deserve it anyways"

 

When someone's thousands of dollars in debt and years in the whole in an attempt to build a career, giving into extortion, or even simply pressure to keep quiet in order to not have their life or career ruined is totes the same as sexually assaulting a person. When someone locks some 20 year old intern in a room with them and forces them to watch them masterbate, and then threatens them about saying anything, the intern is totally equally culpable 

 

 

When someone's thousands of dollars in debt and years in the whole in an attempt to build a career, giving into extortion, or even simply pressure to keep quiet in order to not have their life or career ruined is totes the same as sexually assaulting a person. When someone locks some 20 year old intern in a room with them and forces them to watch them masterbate, and then threatens them about saying anything, the intern is totally equally culpable 

 

If something bad happened to me I'd report it at once. You were a victim so go to police/courts. If you're being quiet then you are accepting that nothing bad happened. And these "celebrities" ruin their lives themselves with their addictions and high speed lifestyle. 

 

When someone's thousands of dollars in debt and years in the whole in an attempt to build a career, giving into extortion, or even simply pressure to keep quiet in order to not have their life or career ruined is totes the same as sexually assaulting a person. When someone locks some 20 year old intern in a room with them and forces them to watch them masterbate, and then threatens them about saying anything, the intern is totally equally culpable 

 

If something bad happened to me I'd report it at once. You were a victim so go to police/courts. If you're being quiet then you are accepting that nothing bad happened. And these "celebrities" ruin their lives themselves with their addictions and high speed lifestyle. 

 

 

So wait, i'm not even sure where to do here. Are you not familiar with what blackmail and extortion are? Do you think that because some prominent celebrities are addicts, that random interns deserve to be raped? 

 

 

So wait, i'm not even sure where to do here. Are you not familiar with what blackmail and extortion are?

 

I am!! I'm asking why are you giving into blackmail and extortion? There is no way out from that cycle. Once you give into blackmailing you're stuck there. Then the person who's abusing holds all cards. 

 

So wait, i'm not even sure where to do here. Are you not familiar with what blackmail and extortion are?

 

I am!! I'm asking why are you giving into blackmail and extortion? There is no way out from that cycle. Once you give into blackmailing you're stuck there. Then the person who's abusing holds all cards. 

 

 

Well it's absolutely fantastic that your in a position in your life where either you're not at risk being suddenly dismissed from your job for speaking out against your boss, or that you're financially secure enough to be able to handle the fallout from this. 

 

Not everyone has this luxury, and these assholes tend to not target people they're incapable of threatening. For many people the choice may be between shutting up or not making next month's rent, especially in the wonderful world that is at will employment. 

Sure some people willingly traded sex for roles or advancement but they shouldn't even be part of the discussion when you consider the actual victims who were forced or attacked. This thread has been eye opening and I now see why we are a society are having such a hard time following the rules that Bill and Ted laid out for us.

 

 

 

1, Is anyone really surprised that sexual abuse is widespread in places like the friggin MOVIE INDUSTRY? Anyone with half a brain knew that already, even if sunlight can help somewhat. Why the outrage now, and not before (Woody Allan, Polanski, etc...)?

 

 

Just because it is happening doesn't make it right.

 

 

 

2, Of course, the whole ordeal turned into a moral panic, because why wouldn’t it? While some guys like Weinstein are obviously dirty as hell, now a single, unproven accusation or awkward date is enough to have someone fired or his career destroyed. As lys pointed out, maybe it’s not such a great idea to abandon the “innocent until proven guilty” principle

 

I am not saying you are wrong but do you have any examples to back that up?

 

 

3, This entire thing was framed as a gender issue, when in fact (as we can see here) is clearly a power issue. It’s how Homo Sapiens works I’m afraid, give it power, and it will abuse it. We’re a horrible species, but again, this too shouldn’t really come as a surprise to anyone.

 

It is a power issue but lets not forget the men that are part of the #metoo movement. Terry Crews for example was sexually assaulted and the man who did it got away with it.

 

 

 

 

Also guys no personal attacks. It doesn't strengthen your argument nor does it look good upon your character. It is okay to disagree

I am!! I'm asking why are you giving into blackmail and extortion? There is no way out from that cycle. Once you give into blackmailing you're stuck there. Then the person who's abusing holds all cards. 

 

 

Fear is an extremely powerful tool. In a business like being an actor someone who is well connected could literally make it so you cannot work, and you would have no proof or recourse to stop them from doing it. So if you were to deny someone with this power you wouldn't have a career anymore and there is nothing that you can do about it.

 

For a moment I want you to pretend you are an actress, you went to school for acting, you are quite good and you were lucky enough to be naturally attractive on top of that you spent your entire life up until now building a solid portfolio and casting directors like you. You are cast in a movie but as a formality you have meet with a producer because he wants to make sure you are right for the role so he invites you to dinner with the casting director. Once dinner is over the casting director leaves and the producer asks you to his room to go through a set of lines, and you don't want to say no because he is your boss. You go up there and start the lines but then he wants you to strip or he starts feeling you up. Here is your decision you leave and hope nothing comes from it or you worry that if you leave you at the least lose your part. Since you have an anti black mailing stance you leave and first thing in the morning you get a call and are told that you aren't right for the part.

 

From here you probably think whatever there are more parts what does one movie matter? You are a trained, experienced and good looking actress with a good reputation. Months go by and despite doing hundreds of auditions lesser actresses get the parts you were going for, and your agent finally finds out you were blacklisted because you turned down that producer. You cant tell on him because you have no proof, its your word against his. This is where you discover your word isn't as good because the producer will do anything to discredit you including saying that you are just angry about being fired for incompetence while citing your act of roles since then. So here you are unable to follow your dream and without any marketable skills. Sure you can get a job in a theater but that wont pay you anything, or perhaps you can get lucky and get on a tv show but when you are blacklisted then tv might be a pipe dream as well.

 

 

I guess what I am getting at is try to see the world from the victim's point of view and never blame them. Even if the victim is partially to blame the predator never should have done it to begin with.

It is a power issue but lets not forget the men that are part of the #metoo movement. Terry Crews for example was sexually assaulted and the man who did it got away with it.

I mean, just look at the reaction terry crew got. forced out of the expendables, endless amounts of harassment online, had venit using his connections with producers and his clients to threaten Terry, etc.

 

 

If that's the kind of shit kicking terry crews takes, just imagine how it goes down for some mid 20s nobody.

 

 

Hell it doesn't even take active threats. Shitty mc shitface in a senior position gets their jollies by cornering people and flashing them. You report that shit to HR and what happens next? In a good world HR starts investigating, pulls camera footage, talks to other people who's worked with them, finds a pattern of behaviour and takes action. But we don't give in a good world, and HR isn't there for your benefit so it's entirely possible they "investigate" and decide that the best way to protect the company is to fire your ass. Or god forbid your dealing with some actively malacious fuckwhits who pull out shit fuckery with "performance improvement plans" in order to dismiss you with cause, cause  hey now they have a defense against a retaliation suit and can put up a fight over EI. So worst case you get fired, and when your new employer calls up your previous employer they say "So and so was dismissed and is not eligible for rehire" 

 

If you've got a family to feed, you wanna roll those dice? 

 

Hell jfc just take a look at how some parts of society will leap up to defend convicted rapists. Remember convicted rapist Brock Turner who got off with a slap on his wrist for raping someone. Remember who we  had all sort of people giving his victim shit because his being a convicted rapist would "ruin his life" and it's just not fair to do that to him. 

I'll take the proud me too movement serious when they lock up Bill Clinton, when they put Kevin Spacey on trail, and stop saying that a female teacher had sex with a minor and start using the word rape.

 

 

I'll take the proud me too movement serious when they lock up Bill Clinton, when they put Kevin Spacey on trail, and stop saying that a female teacher had sex with a minor and start using the word rape.

 

PC  culture tends to not consider men, especially white men victims despite facts against it. This movement is far from perfect but its what we have. Perhaps it can becomes something better or a movement that is more ideal sprouts out of it.

“I am not saying you are wrong but do you have any examples to back that up?”

 

I can give you an example from just a handshake away:

 

A senior associate at an international law firm complimented a secretary in the morning by saying “Wow, you look absolutely great in that dress”, then went into a meeting. When he finished, he was called into the Managing Partner’s office and was fired on the spot for sexual harassment. I don’t know him personally, but a friend of mine does, and I trust his word that that was it, nothing more.

 

There was probably more going on in the background (office politics), but this was a good enough justification to fire someone in 2018.

 

Had I lived in the US, I would probably just give up on complimenting people for anything, ever, especially females. Not out of fear, but out of sheer disgust for the idiocy of the zeitgeist. Sign me up for misanthropy!

For people moaning, thusfar the amount of attention this got in our press is about the same as the first story got. Perhaps you folks really need to think again with sensation drive news instead of actual news.

 

 

Clearly Lys demands sex from his wife. Cause that is what marriage is, a license to shackle someone to your whims.

Your opinions are fair, but this crossed a line my friend. If hurting me personally was your intention... congratulations.

 

It was a complete hyperbole from your "they should have expected it, and thus deserved it" line of reasoning. If you take personal hurt with this, expect that your lines did the same to many victims (both female as male) of such acts you just callously downplayed or victimblamed them for.

 

 

Let me even lament on a possible lawyer defence on this:

1) Argento gets intimitated/blackmailed/... into sexual acts with Weinstein

2) Argento rises up and beyond Weinsteins reach, stars together with Bennett in movie

3) they have an amicable relation and bumb into eachother the following years

4) comes into position of "power" over Bennett, who perhaps idolizes Argento for her success in movies

5) Stupid teenager flirting from Bennett gets answered by recently divorced Argento

6) Currently (as of now) single sexual encouter happens

7) Years later Bennett can better place this act and asks for $$ aid in legal battle against his family

8) Bennett tries to up the $$ desired, in part spurred on by his lawyer

9) Argento comes to term with what she did to Bennett, and together with Boudain, pays ~10% of demanded $$

10) Argento starts vocalizing with #metoo, possibly as a way to redeem herself with Bennett

 

 

PS. her name is hilarious.

“I am not saying you are wrong but do you have any examples to back that up?”

 

I can give you an example from just a handshake away:

 

A senior associate at an international law firm complimented a secretary in the morning by saying “Wow, you look absolutely great in that dress”, then went into a meeting. When he finished, he was called into the Managing Partner’s office and was fired on the spot for sexual harassment. I don’t know him personally, but a friend of mine does, and I trust his word that that was it, nothing more.

 

There was probably more going on in the background (office politics), but this was a good enough justification to fire someone in 2018.

 

Had I lived in the US, I would probably just give up on complimenting people for anything, ever, especially females. Not out of fear, but out of sheer disgust for the idiocy of the zeitgeist. Sign me up for misanthropy!

 

 

I'd be willing to bet actual money that either never happened, did not happen as described, happened after a long chain of previous events that were not relayed to you or your friend, or some combination thereof. They may also have independently fallen victim of a firm with an up or out policy, and having been passed over promotion to partner multiple times was told to get out. 

 

Here's a more likely set of events: It was decided that this senior associate was not going to make partner, and therefore was going to go. The law firm, being run by asshats, saw the first flimsiest excuse to fire them for cause, because "you know, being fired for harassment is one of the things that guarantees EI doesn't pay out!" and then did so. 

 

This has literally nothing to do with the metoo movement or any other such thing. Exactly that sort of shit has been a favoured tactic of shitty employers for longer than any of us have been alive and is a product of the USA's pathetic to non existent protection for workers against such behaviour. You can go back to the 80s and find similar stories. 

 

 

A senior associate at an international law firm complimented a secretary in the morning by saying “Wow, you look absolutely great in that dress”, then went into a meeting. When he finished, he was called into the Managing Partner’s office and was fired on the spot for sexual harassment. I don’t know him personally, but a friend of mine does, and I trust his word that that was it, nothing more.

 

 

Really sounds like there was a lot more going on. Without more knowledge on the situation it would be foolhardy to take that example as fact for a common practice. Also if someone got fired for such a harmless comment would open the door for a wrongful termination suit.

 

Also if you only have a single example that is iffy at best then I cant feel negative about a movement that tries to bring more professionalism in the workplace.

 

“I am not saying you are wrong but do you have any examples to back that up?”

 

I can give you an example from just a handshake away:

 

A senior associate at an international law firm complimented a secretary in the morning by saying “Wow, you look absolutely great in that dress”, then went into a meeting. When he finished, he was called into the Managing Partner’s office and was fired on the spot for sexual harassment. I don’t know him personally, but a friend of mine does, and I trust his word that that was it, nothing more.

 

There was probably more going on in the background (office politics), but this was a good enough justification to fire someone in 2018.

 

Had I lived in the US, I would probably just give up on complimenting people for anything, ever, especially females. Not out of fear, but out of sheer disgust for the idiocy of the zeitgeist. Sign me up for misanthropy!

 

 

I'd be willing to bet actual money that either never happened, did not happen as described, happened after a long chain of previous events that were not relayed to you or your friend, or some combination thereof. They may also have independently fallen victim of a firm with an up or out policy, and having been passed over promotion to partner multiple times was told to get out. 

 

Here's a more likely set of events: It was decided that this senior associate was not going to make partner, and therefore was going to go. The law firm, being run by asshats, saw the first flimsiest excuse to fire them for cause, because "you know, being fired for harassment is one of the things that guarantees EI doesn't pay out!" and then did so. 

 

This has literally nothing to do with the metoo movement or any other such thing. Exactly that sort of shit has been a favoured tactic of shitty employers for longer than any of us have been alive and is a product of the USA's pathetic to non existent protection for workers against such behaviour. You can go back to the 80s and find similar stories. 

 

 

Maybe you're right, maybe not, we'll never know for sure. I just brought this as an example because it happened in my near(-ish) environment and not some similar story off the internet which there are plenty of. You're also right that it has nothing to do with the #metoo movement per se, however it has a lot to do with the moral panic which is happening in the wake of it - for reference of that happening, see the other 2 articles I linked.

 

EDIT: As I said, I'm not in the US, maybe I could bring more personal examples that aren't off the internet if I were. We've got much different problems here, though I honestly don't know which are worse.

Well either it's another example of a  well known, long record behaviour of such firms using or manufacturing flimsy excuses to fire "out" employees, or it's a moral panic you say you have no first hand experience of, and most of your information  about seems to come from media sources that have a vested political interest in convincing you there's a moral panic. 

 

Take your pick there. 

For people moaning, thusfar the amount of attention this got in our press is about the same as the first story got. Perhaps you folks really need to think again with sensation drive news instead of actual news.

 

 

Clearly Lys demands sex from his wife. Cause that is what marriage is, a license to shackle someone to your whims.

Your opinions are fair, but this crossed a line my friend. If hurting me personally was your intention... congratulations.

 

It was a complete hyperbole from your "they should have expected it, and thus deserved it" line of reasoning. If you take personal hurt with this, expect that your lines did the same to many victims (both female as male) of such acts you just callously downplayed or victimblamed them for.

 

No sorry... my opinions in this thread are based on knowledge of the legal process here in the U.S.A., personal experience working in Hollywood, and working with actors and musicians. How many of these people do you know? Have you ever lived and worked in Hollywood? Didn't think so.

 

I don't really care what you think of me, but when you say this kind of thing about my wife, who I have known since 1975, and is the hardest working, most thoughtful person I have ever known... well, this just makes you an ass.

 

I live by a pretty simple code, and another example of that happened this morning when we were spending a couple thousand dollars to see Aerosmith when they come to the MGM Grand next year. Steven Tyler and his attorney sent a cease a desist letter demanding the President to stop using his music at his rallies. Well, we canceled those plans. Being an ass has consequences.

Lets try another analogy then: altar/choir boys shouldn't only expect to be fiddled with, they are actually all gay cause there are only male priests and them chosing said line of work/volunteering clearly shows they know whats comming. See, I can generalize to!

 

Being an ass to your POTUS is a badge of honour, something that happens to any POTUS you guys had in the last century. I see no loss Also this is the third letter they send, clearly who's the ass here?

Well either it's another example of a  well known, long record behaviour of such firms using or manufacturing flimsy excuses to fire "out" employees, or it's a moral panic you say you have no first hand experience of, and most of your information  about seems to come from media sources that have a vested political interest in convincing you there's a moral panic. 

 

Take your pick there. 

 

So now, you're saying there can be no moral panic, because I have no first hand experience, and the mediums reporting on it are politically biased.

 

Well, if you want to have it like that, then you have to discard anything Buzzfeed and the HuffPo are reporting on this matter, because they too have a vested political interest in convincing you that it is NOT a moral panic.

 

Either way, I did not bring up this case to support the argument for the existence of a moral panic, but because Dark Fox asked whether I know of any case when someone was fired based on an accusation alone. I provided one.

 

But even if this particular story isn't true, the general pattern is that A accuses B of sexual harassment, and B is immediately suspended/fired/placed on paid leave pending an investigation. What I'm not seeing, are employers saying: "Well, there may be truth to this, but we will believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. We will conduct an investigation, and if the accusation proves true, we will immediately fire B." If you know of any such case when an employer acted this way, please share.

 

Well either it's another example of a  well known, long record behaviour of such firms using or manufacturing flimsy excuses to fire "out" employees, or it's a moral panic you say you have no first hand experience of, and most of your information  about seems to come from media sources that have a vested political interest in convincing you there's a moral panic. 

 

Take your pick there. 

 

So now, you're saying there can be no moral panic, because I have no first hand experience, and the mediums reporting on it are politically biased.

 

Well, if you want to have it like that, then you have to discard anything Buzzfeed and the HuffPo are reporting on this matter, because they too have a vested political interest in convincing you that it is NOT a moral panic.

 

Either way, I did not bring up this case to support the argument for the existence of a moral panic, but because Dark Fox asked whether I know of any case when someone was fired based on an accusation alone. I provided one.

 

But even if this particular story isn't true, the general pattern is that A accuses B of sexual harassment, and B is immediately suspended/fired/placed on paid leave pending an investigation. What I'm not seeing, are employers saying: "Well, there may be truth to this, but we will believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. We will conduct an investigation, and if the accusation proves true, we will immediately fire B." If you know of any such case when an employer acted this way, please share.

 

 

It's almost like the later case isn't going to make national media. It's almost like many of the prominent cases are ones where the person's behaviour has been a known issue for decades. It's almost like companies tend to announce that people are being removed *after* concluding the investigation, not before. It's almost like an inveistgation where HR goes "uh yea, we've got like 3 decades worth of reports on this guy, but the CEO told us under no uncertain terms to drop the matter" doesn't take very long. 

 

A moral panic looks like crank physicists on the TV floating theories about repressed memories of ritual satanic abuse. A witch hunt looks like senator mccarthy percedingin over a commission in part with the FBI to ferret out suspected communists. It looks like the FBI demanding that it's employees sit in it's homosexual detection device in order to determine if they will continue to be employed there.

 

This? This is a couple dozen semi prominent assholes, quite a few of whom have outright admitted to it being removed after their company decides that the accusation is sufficiently credible  to be worth removing them. If you think a company is going to pay out a massive golden parachute in order to remove someone who's making them money on a "moral panic" you're kinda off your tit. And as said, I guarantee either your buddy is making up shit, whoever told them that story was making up shit, or your buddy is in no way party to all the details. I will bet money that person either had a longer history or was one of a long line of people in the legal industry fired for bullshit reasons because their employers didn't want to keep them around any more. You can find people fired in the 80s for jumped up sexual harassment claims in those industries simply because it one of the reasons where EI doesn't pay out, and that was an era when molesting the secretaries was considered just another job perk. 

 

 

Also no, no we do not need to treat every source as equal. Sexual harassment in these industries are so prevlevant there are literally hundreds of studies that attempt to quantify exactly how bad it is. Something like one person in five will experience it at some point. No one is inventing sexual harassment. So you know, pretending that buzzfeed is the only source is just a wee bit disingenuous. 

 

Of course that's utterly irrelevant. You seem to think there's some big moral panic. It's not on me or anyone else to disprove your claim, it's on you to prove it. Your moral panic does not get to exist by default until disproved, and you shouldn't expect people to prove the negative. The null hypothesis is true until you demonstrate otherwise. 

This is a recent case that went too far because of a one sided accusation from a bad relationship. The very popular host of The Walking Dead after-show talk show, Talking Dead... Chris Hardwick, was absolutely crushed, slandered, humiliated, fired, and virtually kicked out of anything and everything he created... because an ex-girlfriend wrote a letter accusing him of sexual and emotional abuse. After months of hell, being replaced, and investigated, it was determined to be untrue, and he was reinstated.

 

This whole way of doing things is just all wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVCqFok_DGw

If by put through hell you mean Hardwick decided the letter which never mentioned him was about him, turned the entire thing into a public shitfit and embarrassment to AMC, which means they put the  premier of the second season of his show on hold for three weeks while they sorted out said shitfit.

 

Also yea, it took a couple weeks, not "months of hell", and said "weeks" was almost entirely a product of him deciding to A release his own statement  that was bascily a hit piece on Dykstra turning the thing ot a mess and then B  release a bunch of shit to TMZ  for them to publish. When you go out of your way to turn the thing into a public shitfit....yea your gonna end up mildly inconvenienced. If your a network personality and turn anything into public shitfit with international notoriety and the networks gonna put your shit on hold for a while.  That ain't new, the network wants to make sure none of that will get on them. 

 

 

Also it's hardly like there was a police investigation and he was cleared of charged or something. Even assuming it was about Hardwick (and Dykstra still hasn't said so, the closest is that she in no way wants his career disrupted as a result of said letter), the letter at worst presents a picture of a shitty jealous and demanding boyfriend, and it's hardly like AMC has published  a detailed report on if Hardwick was shit boyfriend or not.

 

And since even Hardwick has gone on record about how his relationship is Dysktra was a mutually dysfunctional mess, he probably was a bit of a shitty boyfriend. 

 

 

If by put through hell you mean Hardwick decided the letter which never mentioned him was about him

She talked about when, and supplied dates. Their relationship was well known, and everyone knew who she was talking about. There was no way for him to stay silent, and it would just go away. I don't watch his show very often, and I don't watch "Fear" at all. I do know he's very popular within that world, and it effected many people. If anyone has a bad relationship... just get out of it, and move on. He's actually married to Patti Hearst's daughter now... yeah, that Patti Hearst. There was absolutely no reason to do this to him. No one cares except that stupid mob that jump on every opportunity to destroy someone's life. It's a bunch of online babies that never grew up.

 

If by put through hell you mean Hardwick decided the letter which never mentioned him was about him

She talked about when, and supplied dates. Their relationship was well known, and everyone knew who she was talking about. There was no way for him to stay silent, and it would just go away. I don't watch his show very often, and I don't watch "Fear" at all. I do know he's very popular within that world, and it effected many people. If anyone has a bad relationship... just get out of it, and move on. He's actually married to Patti Hearst's daughter now... yeah, that Patti Hearst. There was absolutely no reason to do this to him. No one cares except that stupid mob that jump on every opportunity to destroy someone's life. It's a bunch of online babies that never grew up.

 

 

Given that after about two weeks, it went away...yea it probably would have gone away. Chloe Dykstra is bascily a semi amatuer model, and wasn't exactly hitting up all the media looking to sell the story. She posted a rant, unlisted [ie, you had to go out of your way to find it] about an ex being a shitty boyfriend. Hardwick is the who turned around and published a retaliatory hit piece via a god damn press release, and then proceeded to sell a bunch of their text messages to TMZ.

 

That's the point it became a Big Thing. And that's about the time AMC wanted to make sure they weren't going to get any of this shit one them. It's also about the time Hardwick shut up, probably because AMC told him to stop  selling shit to TMZ and go sit in the corner while mommy and daddy talk. And hey, know what happened when AMC started "investigating him?"  Dykstra's response was to tell them to go away and bother someone else. . 

 

 

It wasn't some epic hit piece, Dykstra had no interest in making it into some dog and pony show, and it didn't turn into one until Hardwick decided to make it one. And when you're in a prominent media job highly tied into the face of a major television network and quite a few of its major products, any personal drama that involves *you* selling shit to TMZ will result in said network making sure their own ass is covered. I guarantee AMC would have vastly prefered to handle it quietly, they will have lost money of their own by pushing back the new season.  Instead, and I can't state this enough, he wrote a drama laden press release and *sold shit to TMZ*. 

 

You've said "well what do you expect of hollywood/the media " quite a few times like it's an explanation for sexual harassment and abuse, but apparently it's waaaay to unreasonable to expect a major TV network to cover it's own ass at the expense of others?  

 

 

If by put through hell you mean Hardwick decided the letter which never mentioned him was about him

She talked about when, and supplied dates. Their relationship was well known, and everyone knew who she was talking about. There was no way for him to stay silent, and it would just go away. I don't watch his show very often, and I don't watch "Fear" at all. I do know he's very popular within that world, and it effected many people. If anyone has a bad relationship... just get out of it, and move on. He's actually married to Patti Hearst's daughter now... yeah, that Patti Hearst. There was absolutely no reason to do this to him. No one cares except that stupid mob that jump on every opportunity to destroy someone's life. It's a bunch of online babies that never grew up.

 

 

All this that you took entirely too much time to type...

 

I don't care... and all the more reason to ignore these people.