Another day, another plane. Captain "Anger-Management" Tilden (As he was known secretly by the crew) had always been proud of how he handled the flights on his plane. Always smooth, orderly, and comfortable for the passengers. And he intended to keep it that way, he reflected, carrying his bags through the airport terminal. Today's flight was to be a tedious one over the atlantic. But never mind.

 

Got to keep alert, he mused as his bags went through a scanner. Terrorists were everywhere these days. The takeoff was, as always, impeccable. The passengers seemed fairly happy, apart from that hungover one complaining about the lack of painkillers, and Tilden settled himself down for a smooth flight.

 

A few hours into the flight, the door to the cockpit was nudged open, breaking the silence. Tilden stiffened. It was probably that flight attendant. It was no secret amongst the crew that Tilden had a thing for her. But he didn't care. He wasn't about to ruin his chances by shouting again.

"Ah, Marie, could you-"

 

That was as far as he got. Looking at the reflection in the window, he saw a man in plain clothes. A passenger? He was striding up to Tilden with purpose. Tilden's eyes widened as he saw the flash of a blade. He opened his mouth to speak, but couldn't. A knife was swiftly drawn across his throat. He choked, swiftly passing into unconsciousness.

 

And yet no-one noticed the 2 dead pilots in the cockpit. Marie, the flight attendant, was about halfway through serving drinks. She glanced to the left, flashed a fake smile to the passenger before seeing he was unconscious.

She sighed, and rolled her eyes, recognising the passenger as the one with the hangover. She was about to turn away, when something caught her eye. Had he spilt coffee on himself? She sighed again, reaching for some napkins.

 

Wait. That wasn't coffee.

She screamed, noticing the blood spread out over the man's torso. The passenger's heads turned round to look at her. The man's pocket identified him as a Police officer.

 

It was happening again...

 

PLANE CRASH II

 

ALIVE (Italics indicates confirmation)

1. Narsis

3. Electric Mango

8. AKCPLUTO

9. Falzis

11. Aquinas

12. CanucksDynasty

13. Martino

 

DEAD

'Anger Management' Tilden, Pilot, slashed N0.

Nameless Copilot, slashed N0.

Nameless Hungover Cop, stabbed N0.

crazyemolad, TOWNIE, lynched D1.

Junkahoolik, TOWNIE, lynched D2.

KevinH, TOWNIE, stabbed N2.

Sir Jesus, TOWNIE, lynched D3.

Kaziocore, TOWNIE, killed N3.

Junkahoolik II, TOWNIE, killed N4.

Edited February 11, 201016 yr by molestargazer

The following quote lists, what I believe, are the critical early posts about where people should go for the night.

 

Underline Text= Maximum Spread support

Italic Text= List vs. Free will room assignments

Bold Text= Non-connected Room Support

 

Aquinas Post #14

 

I think we should make an effort to spread out as much as possible each night. If we are grouped we would loose information on zones and diverse benefits and possibly suffer extra losses if the scum occupy those zones (implied that if there are benefits their are also very likely penalties). I would say we spread out and discover as much as we can on night one about each zone and then adjust for proper benefits (penalties?) on night two and so forth.

 

KevinH Post #15

 

I think we should make an effort to spread out as much as possible each night.

 

 

I agree with this strategy.

 

I can see some possibilities where it might not be optimal:

 

* Maybe, just maybe, a doc can protect everyone in their compartment.

* A cop has to be in the same compartment as the person they investigate.

 

 

Here's the big reason why we should do it:

 

* After someone is killed, we can put suspicion on everyone in the same and adjacent compartments.

 

Narsis Post #18

 

spreading out does have its benefits...but we do need to be careful about it. sure we spread out but scum could more or less fairly easily put people in such a position as to be capable of targetting everyone. so as a method to avoid getting killed by scum...not necessarily going to work. i guess it would narrow the list somewhat though.

 

what i think would make a bigger effect would be seeing in what order and how/why people choose their location. i mean if we get together and say: you go here and you go here it doesn't really give us a good idea of who's mafia and who's not.

 

anyway i think that for at least tonight when it comes we should spread out with at least one person in each area. most will have two.

 

so that aside... i guess the question now is...who is scum?

 

Electric Mango Post #19

 

I agree with this strategy.

 

I can see some possibilities where it might not be optimal:

 

* Maybe, just maybe, a doc can protect everyone in their compartment.

* A cop has to be in the same compartment as the person they investigate.

 

 

Here's the big reason why we should do it:

 

* After someone is killed, we can put suspicion on everyone in the same and adjacent compartments.

 

MOD: When the next morning comes, will the passengers know who spent the night with them in their compartment?

 

No. But all movements at the end of the day are posted in-thread.

Movements for night actions are unknown to anyone but the movers.

 

FOS: Aquinas and KevinH

 

 

Electric Mango Post #20

 

EBWP: I submitted it accidentally, will explain more when I hear about the mod ruling.

 

Also to make it official,

 

MOD: Please answer my question above.

 

KevinH Post #22

 

Since there are 13 of us and 8 locations to which we can each spend the night, maximum spread would give 5 locations with 2 players and 3 locations with 1 player. If the cop or doc is stuck in a location with only 1 player, they won't be effective. I propose we leave 2 locations empty and have 5 locations with 2 players and 1 location with 3 players.

 

 

Angel of Doom Post #23

 

 

that sounds good

 

 

Narsis Post #24

 

hmm...so like section 4 with 3, section 1 with 2 and section 9 with 2? or something similar.

 

come to think of it that would definitely narrow down suspect lists and the like. i'm assuming of course that section 4 and 1 aren't connected as well.

 

MOD: just to confirm but are section 4 and 1 connected?(and likewise 6 and 9)

 

No.

 

also i would like to hear why EM FOS'd Aquinas and Kevin...

 

 

Firkked Post #25

 

I'm all for finding out the nuts and bolts of how the map works, I'm not sure that having people follow a pre-determined strategy can benefit the town over scum (eg anytime scum know where to find town it makes their job easier).

If a strategy for placement comes into discussion later that is obvious, brilliant and definitely works in favor of the Town I will change my opinion, otherwise I feel a maximum spread strategy may confuse more than help.

 

This is due to the connectedness of the map. A max spread would still give scum access to 3-5 people depending on the area.

 

Breaking up into groups where the scum can't move would help, if there were no pro-town power roles (eg agreeing to stay in only areas 1,4,7 and 8 as they are not connected to each other and scum couldn't move to any other group as they would be 2 moves away).

 

This is why I'm not convinced on a strategy for where people go for the night, other than being in areas 4 or 6 gives you the most areas to move to/from (good for scum, bad for town).

 

Also, EM - reasons for FOS?

 

Narsis Post #27

 

doing some quick math:

 

if we want to limit the ability of power roles as much as possible(not really a bad idea for the first night) then splitting into areas: 2, 3, 7, and 8 in groups of 3 and one of 4 will mean that whoever dies must have been targetted by someone in their section, greatly narrowing down the suspect list. although we do limit what pro-town power roles can do consider:

 

1) they likely won't have someone in particular they want to target(or won't mind picking someone else)

 

2) there will be little to no additional limitations of who they can target nor would there be any less information available to them.

 

 

so at least for night one(and probably night two as well) i think that our best move is to split into groups of 3 and 4 spread out over sections 2, 3, 7, and 8.

 

Aquinas - Suggested max spread.

KevinH - Agreed, added CYA clause.

EM - FOS'd Aquinas and KevinH by quoting KevinH

AoD - Agreed with no supporting reason.

Narsis - Initial support of Max Spread, & supports free choice of rooms, changes to Non-connected after my post

Firkked - First posted statement of non-connected strategy.

EM - While I don't disagree that you had the same idea, I believe I beat you to the punch by posting first. However, my "Townie vibe" for Narsis was from his immediately seeing the folly of a 'max spread' strategy after seeing my post (and the previous mod rulings). I understand your skepticism, but that's my reason for why I gave him townie points.

 

FOS: Angel of Doom - Blanket support of max spread with no support reasons.

 

FOS: Aquinas - Suggested max spread and didn't follow up with a support of the strategy, instead went to dissecting List/Free-will

 

Vote: KevinH - Strongly supporting max spread strategy almost immediately after suggesting it and becoming the main proponent, plus added the convenient CYA statement in case the strategy was invalidated.

 

Don't forget to unvote before voting. I've still counted your vote.

Edited October 30, 200916 yr by molestargazer

4. Different locations may contain items or useful things. The distance of an area to the discussion site has no relevance as to its contents.

 

I would say we spread out and discover as much as we can on night one about each zone and then adjust for proper benefits (penalties?) on night two and so forth.

 

Strongly supporting max spread strategy almost immediately after suggesting it and becoming the main proponent, plus added the convenient CYA statement in case the strategy was invalidated.

 

So let's see. I initially supported a strategy where we could discover as much as we could. A strategy that would narrow down the list of potential scum if a night-kill occurred.

 

For this, I'm accused of being scum?

I'm accusing you for strongly supporting a strategy that put the town at greater risk than needed

EBWOP

I'm accusing you of being scum for....

At least I supported a strategy that had some pro-town basis.

 

"Scum-hunters" would not find that quite so bad.

was the strategy for spreading out agreed upon?? can we start scum hunting??

I think we've agreed to spread into 4 non-adjacent rooms.

 

How about guys we have a poll here to see if we should pick our own rooms or if someone will make a list

I think we've agreed to spread into 4 non-adjacent rooms.

 

How about guys we have a poll here to see if we should pick our own rooms or if someone will make a list

 

 

This is a good idea. I'll keep track of the voting for us but I would like to hear from Narsis 1st. He promised a post to explain why he thinks a pick your own room strategy would work the best. Right now I think it should be random but I'm willing to hear from him first.

 

 

@ Firkked - good break down of who supported which strategy.

 

@ Kevin - The evidence against you isn't damning but if I had to vote for someone........

No Lynch Strategy Worst Case Scenario (providing nk on N1)

 

D1 = no lynch

N1 = dead townie on N1 (max 3 suspects)

D2 = mis-lynch dead townie (from N1 suspects)

N2 = dead townie (may be a totally new set of suspects...max 2)

D3 = mis-lynch dead townie

N3 = dead townie (probably N1 suspect)

D4 = yay lynch mafia (N1 suspect)

N4 = dead townie

D5 = ?

 

So far = 6 dead townies and 1 mafia by start of D5

 

 

Lynch Strategy Worst Case Scenario (providing nk on N1)

 

D1 = mis-lynch dead townie

N1 = dead townie on N1 (max 2 suspects)

D2 = mis-lynch dead townie (from N1 suspects)

N2 = dead townie (probably N1 suspect

D3 = yay lynch mafia

N3 = dead townie (new set of max 2 suspects)

D4 = ?

 

So far = 5 dead townies and 1 mafia by start of D4

 

 

That's why I think lynching is our best option.

Right now...I'm starting to be more suspicous of those that have voted for a no-lynch

(KevinH and SJ)

For my purposes...

 

Townies

CD (me obviously)

Narsis (provided details in 4 separate room strategy)

Firkked (first to post 4 separate room strategy)

EM (presumably he had the same idea as Firkked...I'll believe him on this one)

 

Unknown

Kaziocore

crazyemolad

Martino

Falzis

Aquinas

AoD

 

Suspects

KevinH (voted no lynch - which I believe doesn't help town)

SJ (voted no lynch - which I believe doesn't help town)

 

VOTE COUNT

KevinH (1): Firkked

 

No Lynch (1): Sir Jesus

 

Not Voting (11): Narsis, Junkahoolik, Electric Mango, KevinH, crazyemolad, Falzis, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Martino, CanucksDynasty, angel of doom

Edited October 30, 200916 yr by molestargazer

"for my purposes......"

 

Does anyone here actually think this is for CD's purposes btw?

 

 

 

Yeah I'm a mafia-suspect because I voted no lynch ..... that's just retarded. The night system gives us townies a power outside of simple voting and logic, we can choose our location. This gives us an amazing ability to deduce who does what, based on our positions. This gives us a large amount of information.

 

Lynching also gives us information, but at a very high cost. I believe that in normal games, the benefit of vote-tracking is worth the cost. However, we have information that can/will be acquired without possibly lynching one of our own. If the mafia has an NK, it's going to happen regardless of us voting to lynch or not...

 

I really believe that 2,3,7,8 is the best combo.

It gives access to every single room for power-roles (exploration).

It divides the plane into two distinct parties.

None of the rooms are adjacent to one another.

"for my purposes......"

 

Does anyone here actually think this is for CD's purposes btw?

 

 

 

Yeah I'm a mafia-suspect because I voted no lynch ..... that's just retarded. The night system gives us townies a power outside of simple voting and logic, we can choose our location. This gives us an amazing ability to deduce who does what, based on our positions. This gives us a large amount of information.

 

Lynching also gives us information, but at a very high cost. I believe that in normal games, the benefit of vote-tracking is worth the cost. However, we have information that can/will be acquired without possibly lynching one of our own. If the mafia has an NK, it's going to happen regardless of us voting to lynch or not...

 

I really believe that 2,3,7,8 is the best combo.

It gives access to every single room for power-roles (exploration).

It divides the plane into two distinct parties.

None of the rooms are adjacent to one another.

 

It is for my purposes.

I don't keep everything on a xcel spreadsheet or notepad.

I keep it here so that I can review my thoughts.

 

I gave reasons for why I think a no lynch is not a good idea in my previous posts.

What would the mafia want...to be lynched on D3 or lynched on D4?

 

I have my suspicions and they are just that...my suspcions.

Why are you being so defensive about that?

Nobody else has come up and said they think you're suspicious too.

 

2,3,7,8 rooms are good for exploration??

Oh my god this thread is so long and meaty. What kind of game is this? All this just on the first mafia day. I'm reading... and reading.....

@SJ - using only rooms 2, 3, 7, 8...how is it better than 2, 3, 6, 9?? Power roles can still access 2 rooms while #6 has access to 3 areas or 1, 4, 7, 8 with #4 access to 3 areas.

tbh i had a huge reply written up and after it got deleted realized what you were actually saying. and tbh...i'm not opposed to the idea.

the list idea imo is selling us short. we are giving up valuable information. both my idea and the hybrid more or less give us the info.

 

but what info is it?

 

it is very comparable to lynches. no one here, except for Kevin and maybe crazy, would say that no-lynching is a good idea. why? one reason is because lynching gives us good information. so why would we turn down the chance at getting information here? to save a townie from making a mistake that could get him killed? yet lynching for info would guarantee that townies death. could vs. guarantee...i'll take the could.

 

not to mention that can fairly easily limit the chance of a mistake while maintaining the ability to gather information. that's why VCs exist, so why not do something similar for moving? an MC of sorts.

 

 

This is a good idea. I'll keep track of the voting for us but I would like to hear from Narsis 1st. He promised a post to explain why he thinks a pick your own room strategy would work the best. Right now I think it should be random but I'm willing to hear from him first.

 

 

@ Firkked - good break down of who supported which strategy.

 

@ Kevin - The evidence against you isn't damning but if I had to vote for someone........

 

quoted the post above. essentially it all comes down to information. the mafia want to keep as much information to themselves as possible. by following a list, they can keep the information of why they wanted to be in a particular room to themselves, even though they may not have gotten a room as good as they wanted. by forcing them to choose a room, we are forcing them to provide us with information about why they choose that room, whether directly or indirectly stated by them.

 

also, i have yet to hear what the benefits of having a list is over choosing...save a townie from making a mistake? i already said we could easily keep a move count and that would do the job just fine. so what other benefits are there? from what i see nothing.

sorry i havnt been as active as i normally am but i've been busy as hell the last couple days.

 

that4 being said

 

@CD if your going to keep a suspect list for "yourself" dont post it here. also KevinH votes no lynch on day 1 just about everytime and when he doesnt he gets blasted for it, look at the last game for my point. if you want us to know your suspect list, show it in your votes.

 

and

 

@everyone else

 

no matter what way we come up with in choosing the rooms, there is going to be some degree of suspicion of who is making the list, thats the nature of the game. but i suggest we have a completely neutral party make the list.

 

@MOD

is it possible for you to use some kind of random choosing to assign the rooms? cause if it keeps up the way its going we're never going to decide

 

No. I'm not interfering with your choices.

Edited October 29, 200917 yr by molestargazer

we still havent decided if using a list is teh best method yet!

@AoD - nah...I'll keep my list here. If it's a major problem...then the mod can delete it then.

...

 

@MOD

is it possible for you to use some kind of random choosing to assign the rooms? cause if it keeps up the way its going we're never going to decide

 

3-2. If any player does not submit an action, they will be distributed randomly and refused any potential benefits for that night.

 

I think that's the MOD's way of saying if you don't decide I'm gonna shove you somewhere and you get nada, nothing, goodnight to you sir!

 

With that said I go back to my second statement on lists: Make one and have people explain themselves when they don't follow it. Heck, have 'em explain why they stuck to the list as well...

 

I'll make my decision if and when a list is out and night is upon us.

 

Finally, a no lynch position isn't a reason to vote for someone on it's own. It can be a reason for suspicion, just as posting or even lurking in the post without posting...

3-2. If any player does not submit an action, they will be distributed randomly and refused any potential benefits for that night.

 

I think that's the MOD's way of saying if you don't decide I'm gonna shove you somewhere and you get nada, nothing, goodnight to you sir!

 

With that said I go back to my second statement on lists: Make one and have people explain themselves when they don't follow it. Heck, have 'em explain why they stuck to the list as well...

 

I'll make my decision if and when a list is out and night is upon us.

 

Finally, a no lynch position isn't a reason to vote for someone on it's own. It can be a reason for suspicion, just as posting or even lurking in the post without posting...

 

but they would say "it was the suggested list so why not". and like i've said i doubt that anyone wouldn't follow a list.

but they would say "it was the suggested list so why not". and like i've said i doubt that anyone wouldn't follow a list.

 

That's probably the best arguement for not having a list.

No one would stray from it for fear of being lynched...especially mafia.

In the end...all it would do is prevent simple townie mistakes.

 

I would have to agree with Narsis on this.

The mafia would likely target someone they think is a cop/doc or a veteran player.

They would have to move in the same room in order to take them out.

These can be somewhat insightful (as Narsis mentioned) as vote counts...patterns may develop.

 

I am in favour of having no list.

Make everyone accountable for their own actions.

"for my purposes......"

 

Does anyone here actually think this is for CD's purposes btw?

 

I like to see what people are thinking so it doesn't matter if it's for their purposes or mine ...

 

What I'm thinking:

• The mafia won't night-kill since we'll automatically have a narrowed list of suspects.
  
• We shouldn't lynch since there's no rush to beat the night-kills.
  
• Assigning players to locations is best (until I know more)
  

• Assigning players to locations is best (until I know more)
  

 

what do you mean until you know more? i have already pointed out several times why it wouldn't be best.

13 players...I think there would be at least 3 mafia with an outside chance of 1sk (as Kazio mentioned in a previous post).

 

The plane will crash eventually with no pilots flying the plane.

So we will lose the advantage of the plane setup soon.

 

If we go with the no lynch strategy.

I'm assuming the 3 mafia will spread themselves so as to have a greater chance to be in the room with 4 people in it.

They will do a nk (this is their power) in the room with 4 people in it and yes it will make one of them a suspect.

But mafia will have a chance to last up to D4 before being lynched and make the body count up to 6 dead townies.

 

Whereas if we go with the lynch...mafia would be lynched on D3 with a body count of 5 dead townies.

 

I sincerely doubt mafia will not do a nk as they will be just giving the cop more time to do his investigations.

After hearing the reasons for a "No list strategy" I am swayed and am in favor of it.

 

What rooms will we have a choice of tonight?