761 replies to this topic

[Wolfpacks]

Actually there's a lot of follow my leader going on, the art of deflection is to stop someone looking into you too deeply, the best way to deflect from someone is to put an idea into someone else's head and let that person run with it, once suspicion is put into anothers mind then their job is done, they can then look into someone else. Reading back there is a lot of deflection and people running with it

[Rhizoctonia]

I haven't seen a whole lot, I see a little wagon going on wolfpacks.  I'm more concerned with the likes of Rafay and Mazuurek.  Rafay has been scum the last two games I've played in the same game (1 scum partners), and each game he is very quiet and hardly posts...now it's game 3, and looking at post count it's the same.  Could be scum a 3rd time?  Not sure, he has the same odds as anyone I suppose to be picked as scum.  Then you have Mazuurek who is new to Mafia, and if Isocialism count is right, is at 1 post.  Both Rafay and Mazuurek have logged on forums today as well.  Don't get me wrong, I log on the forums and still read in spare time I have even if I don't have the time to post, so it could be that, but who knows.

 

I am against killing inactive, but they both have logged on the forums at least, and Rafay has done the same twice now as scum.  Either try to contribute something, or find a replacement.  I haven't had tons of time, but still been reading and trying to put together something.  I get D2 it's really going to be hard with not much to go on, but need to start. Am at least happy to see some look to start questioning some people.  I don't think we can go another day with no lynch either at this point, D1 is one thing, not D2.  I wish I could say I've spotted anything that has caught me suspicious, but haven't too much.  The last few games I was able to pick up one something, even minor, but haven't been able to find anything that has really caught my attention.  

[Sister Midnight]

So Rhiz isn't a newbie. Good to know.

[Wolfpacks]

It's always easy to hit the real newbie then hit the real scum, I personally like being in the limelight, it obviously means I'm a threat to those who put my name out there. But that being said there were many who were on the NL wagon, being the new boy I was kinda tagging along

[Ali bin Turban]

Hmm...I can't really tell what to do with Wolfpack's posting. It's to obfuscated:

 

"He could only act on what He knew or was told, his head is sore from the pounding of blood, is it anger passing through him, no it couldn't have been, they can't have seen the truth, well not this early surely."

 

You can't actually be admitting you're scum, can you? What have you done? Who are you? Confess!!

 

I haven't seen a whole lot, I see a little wagon going on wolfpacks.  I'm more concerned with the likes of Rafay and Mazuurek.  Rafay has been scum the last two games I've played in the same game (1 scum partners), and each game he is very quiet and hardly posts...now it's game 3, and looking at post count it's the same.  Could be scum a 3rd time?  Not sure, he has the same odds as anyone I suppose to be picked as scum.  Then you have Mazuurek who is new to Mafia, and if Isocialism count is right, is at 1 post.  Both Rafay and Mazuurek have logged on forums today as well.  Don't get me wrong, I log on the forums and still read in spare time I have even if I don't have the time to post, so it could be that, but who knows.

 

I am against killing inactive, but they both have logged on the forums at least, and Rafay has done the same twice now as scum.  Either try to contribute something, or find a replacement.  I haven't had tons of time, but still been reading and trying to put together something.  I get D2 it's really going to be hard with not much to go on, but need to start. Am at least happy to see some look to start questioning some people.  I don't think we can go another day with no lynch either at this point, D1 is one thing, not D2.  I wish I could say I've spotted anything that has caught me suspicious, but haven't too much.  The last few games I was able to pick up one something, even minor, but haven't been able to find anything that has really caught my attention.  

This is because we're to kind, talking to each other as if we all were on our Aunt's tea party. Smiling and agreeing with each other. We need some difficult questions, some voting, some blood to be spilled (though not to much) With a bit more emotions coming into play, so that people start showing their true colors.

 

You say you're concerned with Rafay and Mazuurek, so please do something about it. Don't say you're afraid to get your hands dirty with the voting? Everyone have the same chances to be a scum, no matter what happened in the past games. We won't find out the truth until we start putting pressure.

[SeaBeeGipson]

Rhizo brings up a good point with Rafay. Every game I've played with him, he's scum. He keeps the same playstyle because it works. I'm not sure if he plays differently as town as I've never played with him where he's town.

Vote Rafay.

Same behavior as every other game he's scum. I know lynching someone who barely has posted gives us no information, but if he's scum (which his playstyle in my opinion would indicate from past games.) Well be down one scum.

As far as Wolfpack, I don't feel he's scum or worthy of a lynch. He gives off a townie vibe. I don't think he's the noob that would be on the scum side. I mean, if that's who we are going to lynch, so be it. I'm just adding my concern I think we would be better aiming for Rafay.

[Finster Baby]

UNVOTE

Having played scum with Rafay last game, he pays attention while he's lurking. He didn't post much in our last game, but he was absolutely watching what was going on. I wouldn't doubt that he's doing it again.

VOTE: Rafay

[KevinH]

0 points, candidates to lynch

• Rafay, second on my list to lynch
• Mazuurek, top of my list to lynch 

 

 

Considering that I'm all alone on my top pick, I'm switching to to #2.

 

Unvote
Vote: Rafay

[Preston]

As the end of the day gets closer, we're starting to see people feeling out which wagons might get traction. I am particularly looking at Finster right now for semi-rapid vote switching - he joined Ali and iSoc on Wolfpacks, then joined King Hitler on Rafay. Combined with the earlier feel of him seeking people to spill night info this puts him currently on top of my suspect list, as thin as it is for the moment. 

 

Now with that said - the debate over inactives has been framed in terms of Rafay and Mazuurek for the past realtime day or so, but Samus is just as inactive on Day 2 and MORE active than Rafay outside of this thread (as far as I can see), and Lyner posted only to provide a cover excuse for why he is not posting. If we are looking at lurkers, we cannot look at anything less than all four of them - and the fact that Samus keeps getting forgotten when discussing inactives/lurkers is bothering me a little, as though he is being deliberately omitted by those talking about it. That's one reason I'm keeping my vote where it is - the other is that I still have not gotten an answer as to whether Samus is 'veteran' enough that he would have been a good N1 scum target over CoD. 

 

Saying that Rafay is "always scum" is a horrible concept to base a vote on - past games have absolutely zero influence on what roles you get THIS game, even if he plays the same. Finster's assertion that Rafay was absolutely watching while lurking in *previous* games carries no weight unless he has been observed to be doing so this game. I have no desire to defend Rafay specifically and think he needs to speak up, but I can't let misleading statements like that stand without challenge. 

 

We might be able to poke the inactives more directly as well. Back when I used to play, we could request the mod issue a prod message to inactives who had not posted for X real days, and if they did not return to the game in short order they were up for replacement. If TW has no problem with this, I would like to request a prod on Mazurrek, Samus and Rafay - or hell, say something to them on Discord. I'm not giving Lyner a free pass, but at least he has said SOMETHING today. 

 

Things are mixing up and that will be good for determining peoples' stances later on, but I dont want to move toward finishing the day just yet. 

 

-Preston

[Sister Midnight]

Rhizo brings up a good point with Rafay. Every game I've played with him, he's scum. He keeps the same playstyle because it works. I'm not sure if he plays differently as town as I've never played with him where he's town.
Vote Rafay.
Same behavior as every other game he's scum. I know lynching someone who barely has posted gives us no information, but if he's scum (which his playstyle in my opinion would indicate from past games.) Well be down one scum.
As far as Wolfpack, I don't feel he's scum or worthy of a lynch. He gives off a townie vibe. I don't think he's the noob that would be on the scum side. I mean, if that's who we are going to lynch, so be it. I'm just adding my concern I think we would be better aiming for Rafay.

I'm not defending Rafay, but in the game I played with him he wasn't scum, but rarely posted. I don't know who to vote for, but I'm fingering Rafay atm because I have nothing else to go on. I need more info to confidently vote for anyone, but if I were forced to vote right now I would either vote for Rafay because I don't like his continued silence and I don't want to reward it, or I'd vote Wolfy (I'm sorry, Mr. Hot Guy) because his posts don't make much sense to me and he's a newbie and I think there is a scum newbie. I'm also eying Samus for his silence, but he's not in my top two.

Addendum: I wrote the above before seeing Preston's post, I stand by my statements, but Samus is looking more suspicious to me now.

[Preston]

Addendum - and now KevinH has joined Finster on Rafay, bringing it to three votes- one shy of the number needed to secure a lynch at deadline. No reason was given for the vote shift other than Kevin being alone on his other pick, and Rafay being second on Kevin's prior list - which excluded Samus' inactivity while focusing on Rafay and Mazuurek. Per my above post, the exclusion of Samus and Lyner when discussing inactives is becoming a pet peeve of mine, because the same numbers and metrics should apply to all four and I'd be surprised at Kevin for missing that. 

 

It would be a stretch to say Samus, Finster and KevinH are ALL scum, but right now I am looking at them all and wondering if the scum team could be stacked that heavily. If nothing else it might explain why CoD was taken out instead of any of them. 

 

We're not at 4 votes yet, but the scrambling for a wagon is starting to feel like they are testing the waters to see what will stick with the rest of us.

 

-Preston

[Rhizoctonia]

Hmm...I can't really tell what to do with Wolfpack's posting. It's to obfuscated:

 

"He could only act on what He knew or was told, his head is sore from the pounding of blood, is it anger passing through him, no it couldn't have been, they can't have seen the truth, well not this early surely."

 

You can't actually be admitting you're scum, can you? What have you done? Who are you? Confess!!

 

I haven't seen a whole lot, I see a little wagon going on wolfpacks.  I'm more concerned with the likes of Rafay and Mazuurek.  Rafay has been scum the last two games I've played in the same game (1 scum partners), and each game he is very quiet and hardly posts...now it's game 3, and looking at post count it's the same.  Could be scum a 3rd time?  Not sure, he has the same odds as anyone I suppose to be picked as scum.  Then you have Mazuurek who is new to Mafia, and if Isocialism count is right, is at 1 post.  Both Rafay and Mazuurek have logged on forums today as well.  Don't get me wrong, I log on the forums and still read in spare time I have even if I don't have the time to post, so it could be that, but who knows.

 

I am against killing inactive, but they both have logged on the forums at least, and Rafay has done the same twice now as scum.  Either try to contribute something, or find a replacement.  I haven't had tons of time, but still been reading and trying to put together something.  I get D2 it's really going to be hard with not much to go on, but need to start. Am at least happy to see some look to start questioning some people.  I don't think we can go another day with no lynch either at this point, D1 is one thing, not D2.  I wish I could say I've spotted anything that has caught me suspicious, but haven't too much.  The last few games I was able to pick up one something, even minor, but haven't been able to find anything that has really caught my attention.  

This is because we're to kind, talking to each other as if we all were on our Aunt's tea party. Smiling and agreeing with each other. We need some difficult questions, some voting, some blood to be spilled (though not to much) With a bit more emotions coming into play, so that people start showing their true colors.

 

You say you're concerned with Rafay and Mazuurek, so please do something about it. Don't say you're afraid to get your hands dirty with the voting? Everyone have the same chances to be a scum, no matter what happened in the past games. We won't find out the truth until we start putting pressure.

 

 

I'm not against voting for either of them.  I wanted to address where I'm currently at in regards to my votes and how I'm leaning.  Not posting could be a sign of a scum move (some have used in the past), but doesn't necessarily mean it either.  I hate that currently that is the most "feeling" I have on someone, as like I said, when I've played in the past I was able to pick up on cues from some early on that turned out to be scum, but I haven't been able to yet here, and so I'm currently at having to base my opinion on posting.  I just wanted to say, those are the two at the moment I feel most comfortable with voting, and I will vote someone, because I feel a no lynch on D2 is bad.  You may have noticed in the past as well, I'm usually not one to jump from vote to vote(change my vote multiple times)...I try to pressure people by calling them out, but usually I wait a bit to vote while I take everything in and make 1 final choice.  Maybe I need to change my mentality to actually put a vote on someone to pressure them if me calling them out or saying the're likely my vote doesn't get them to respond.  

 

What I find more alarming is the amount of people after my post jumped on Rafay.  We already have 3 people since my post that have jumped on him.  Which also gives me a little to think about.  Is all 3 of these people town and they think the best vote is Rafay, or is there scum in one or so of the votes that are voting Rafay and are doing so because they know Rafay is town and likely the easy kill.  TBH, if Rafay comes up scum...the first people to vote him will earn some town points because no way do I think a scum would jump on a wagon on a fellow scum that early on.  

 

And just to add, my 3rd person as someone have mentioned as well is Samus.  I hate to see someone constantly voted out early, so I'm happy Samus wasn't for the sake of someone being able to play.  That being said, he is still alive D2 and doesn't seem to be participating in a game he finally is able to.  He, out of all 3 I have listed, not only has logged on the forums, but posted on other areas of the forums, whereas the other 2 haven't actually posted anything anywhere on the forums in days.  

 

So to change my mentality for now and cast a vote to pressure someone,

 

Vote:  Samus

 

Rafay has enough pressure on him already that he better start posting.  I will if need be, put the 4th vote needed to see him lynched if he doesn't, but I think Samus needs to come play or he gets the lynch.

[Finster Baby]

Since I started the Samus questioning before, I see it's come full circle.

Samus still needs to come here to defend himself, however, I'm sticking with Rafay.

Preston: Yeah, I jumped a bit on voting. I bandwagoned Wolfpacks, but further reflection upon what he says leads me away from him being the BEST choice as scum. Rafay, IMO, fulfills that role right now, only based on what he's shown to be his pattern of play in the past. Also, information is always knowledge, and any info will help those with night roles be able to perform those roles in a manner that benefits the town. Right now, based on what we're seeing, who should the doctor protect? Who should the cop investigate? Who should be watched and tracked? If the town wants to win, without straight up role claims, information to help those in the power roles make intelligent choices to help us win is imperative.

[KevinH]

Nobody was with me on my #1 choice.

Switching to my #2 choice doesn't require much justification.

[Preston]

Since I started the Samus questioning before, I see it's come full circle.

Samus still needs to come here to defend himself, however, I'm sticking with Rafay.

Preston: Yeah, I jumped a bit on voting. I bandwagoned Wolfpacks, but further reflection upon what he says leads me away from him being the BEST choice as scum. Rafay, IMO, fulfills that role right now, only based on what he's shown to be his pattern of play in the past.

So is Wolfpacks still on your scum short list, and if so what keeps him there? Adding some detail to flesh out your votes after the fact won't be a complete excuse for the bandwagoning, but it will help explain your case.

Also, information is always knowledge, and any info will help those with night roles be able to perform those roles in a manner that benefits the town. Right now, based on what we're seeing, who should the doctor protect? Who should the cop investigate? Who should be watched and tracked? If the town wants to win, without straight up role claims, information to help those in the power roles make intelligent choices to help us win is imperative.

All of this is generically true, but I fail to see how your recent vote shifts would provide this information to anyone.
 

Nobody was with me on my #1 choice.
Switching to my #2 choice doesn't require much justification.

You did include Rafay in your earlier list; what I want to understand is what makes Rafay your #2 choice over others like Samus and Lyner who are (or in Lyner's case, were) doing the same thing he is. It feels off to me that you seem to be disregarding two of the four inactives for no clear reason. Also the relative brevity of your posts in switching your vote and now explaining it when prompted also has my attention...

I get that Rafay's scum-play style is apparently to lurk, but according to SM (and what I vaguely remember from earlier games as well), he does the same thing as town too. So when I see people justifying their vote as "Well he is always scum" I can't see how that can possibly hold true unless he has literally turned out to be scum in every game he's played. I think I'm reacting more to that fallacy and contradiction than to anything else. It'd be a hell of a lot simpler if our inactives got back in here.

-Preston

[Finster Baby]

Wolfpacks is absolutely on my short list, along with Samus. Wolfpacks for the same reasons I initially voted for him - his seemingly random postings and musing, no real substance, no real attempts to see what's going on townwise.

My vote shifts don't give knowledge at all. I probably should have held off on the vote for Wolf, but that's my still relative noobishness. I'll get the hang eventually.

I agree with you 100% - we need our inactives to get with the program.

[KevinH]

You did include Rafay in your earlier list; what I want to understand is what makes Rafay your #2 choice over others like Samus and Lyner who are (or in Lyner's case, were) doing the same thing he is. It feels off to me that you seem to be disregarding two of the four inactives for no clear reason. Also the relative brevity of your posts in switching your vote and now explaining it when prompted also has my attention...

 
Why do you say I'm ignoring 2 inactives?  I'm listing 6 "candidates for lynch":
 

0 points, candidates to lynch (in order of activity)

• legoboyvdlp
• Samus
• iSocialism
• Lyner
• Rafay, second on my list to lynch
• Mazuurek, top of my list to lynch
   

 

 
The ordering came from this:

Post Count:                          
legoboyvdlp 10
Samus 9
iSocialism 7
Lyner 6
Rafay 2
Mazuurek 1

That should explain why Rafay is #2.

 

Does anybody need help interpreting #3 through #6?

[KevinH]

Only the following roles may exist in this game:

Vanilla Townie, Bodyguard, Commuter, Cop, Sane Cop, Insane Cop, Day Cop, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Flavor Cop, Doctor, Framer, Friendly Neighbor, Follower, Gunsmith, Innocent Child, Jack of All Trades, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia Ninja, Mafia Strongman, Mafia Traitor, Mason, Miller, Motion Detector, Neapolitan, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Nurse, Roleblocker, Rolestopper, Serial Killer, Tracker, Universal Backup, Vigilante, Voyeur, Watcher

 

The following modifiers may also exist in this game:

Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, Enabler (with or without primary role present), Even/Odd Night, Macho, Neighbor, Non-Consecutive Night, Weak, X-Shot

 

 

It is interesting to find these differences from "Normal":

• Insane Cop
• Flavor Cop
• Framer
• Mafia Godfather
• Nurse

The take-away is that we need to be hesitant to rely on investigations.

[Finster Baby]

I look at the modifier "May" as being the key here.

[Wolfpacks]

Wolfpacks is absolutely on my short list, along with Samus. Wolfpacks for the same reasons I initially voted for him - his seemingly random postings and musing, no real substance, no real attempts to see what's going on townwise, I probably should have held off on the vote for Wolf, but that's my still relative noobishness.

My actual noobness may have led me to misenterpret how I was to be within the game, i want to be active in the game but mayhap I took it too far, I see a lot of intelligent people playing possibly far away from my own intelligence, will l still be random probably but a little more stoic,
So in my humble opinion I personally find people who talk more have more to hide then people that talk less, they make big speeches to direct people into going the way they want to lead, by just watching you see who is more experienced players are . There are a couple who I actually think are scum but for now I'm quite happy with my vote and it has nothing to do with sour grapes