761 replies to this topic

[Ali bin Turban]

 

Wasn't Rhizo proved to be town already? Why are you bringing his towniness up? Weird again.

 

Please read it again, maybe it will be less weird, because your previous post indicates you didn't understood my intention (which as I've said was not easy without checking the full context). Also it's hard to explain something again without mentioning that something again. I'm surprised that you were surprised because of this.

 

 

Post #314: Rhizo seals the fate: +1 on Lego - 1 on Wolfpacks. It's all decided now (Lego is the first one to reach required number of votes to by lynched).
-----------------------------------------------
Post #316: SM -1 on Rafay, +1 on Lego

Here is the relevant line from Ali's post that I should have included in my post a moment ago; after I hit post I figured the actual line would help with clarity. The phrasing seems pretty conclusive that he thought Rhizo's vote was the important one and SM's was secondary, he even had a dashed line separating them.

Now here's a fun question: if we assume for the moment that Ali is scum and this was how he interpreted the votes, could this be why Rhizo was chosen as the night's kill?

-Preston

 

 

I don't think Rhizo's position on the wagon was enough to get him killed. He was a great asset to us and a confirmed town to that. I've mentioned three possible reasons previously:

 

He was active enough, able to hunt down scums and was confirmed town (he hammered the vote). Only one that would fit this better is Samus.

 

But maybe you have some better idea as of why was he killed?

 

 

 

My thoughts on everybody

• Sister Midnight - Put the last vote on Legoboyvdlp which a scum would not have done. Almost as much townie cred as Samus, despite what Ali bin Turban may say.
• Ali bin Turban - Didn't vote for Legoboyvdlp and was on Wolfpacks' wagon. Seems like he's trying to confuse things by raising doubt about Sister Midnight.  He's not a Gryffindor Student or Helpful Hogwarts Staff. Maybe be one of the scum trying to save Legoboyvdlp?

 

Now you're trying to twist my words. I don't have any problem with SM, I do have doubts about you. I though I've explained it already, but you seemed to omit that. 

[KevinH]

You may have noticed as well I havent jumped on KevinH's bandwagon to save my own arse, because I have voted for who I believe is a scum

 

Wolfpacks was referring to the bandwagon on Rafay, while he kept his vote on me.  Was he trying to save Rafay, too?  It's still confusing though, because either a scum or a townie should change their vote at the end to try and save themselves.

 

Also, for what it's worth:

4 user(s) are reading this topic
4 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

KevinH, Lyner, Ali bin Turban, Mazuurek

[Lyner]

 

I heard Rafay and Samus have something to share?

that your lurking habits make you scum more and more.

 

If by lurk you mean I had to post something everytime I check out this thread then yes I'm a lurker

 

Or is this still about the day 2?

 

 

 

 

Regarding SM's debacle, I think this is the tl;dr version:

1. SM's vote is not the deciding vote, Rhizo's is

2. Kevin insists that SM's additional vote is a townie action that sealed Lego's fate

3. AbT insists that SM's additional vote is not necessarily a townie action

4. AbT is accusing Kevin based on point 2

[Ali bin Turban]

 

 

I heard Rafay and Samus have something to share?

that your lurking habits make you scum more and more.

 

If by lurk you mean I had to post something everytime I check out this thread then yes I'm a lurker

 

Or is this still about the day 2?

 

 

 

 

Regarding SM's debacle, I think this is the tl;dr version:

1. SM's vote is not the deciding vote, Rhizo's is

2. Kevin insists that SM's additional vote is a townie action that sealed Lego's fate

3. AbT insists that SM's additional vote is not necessarily a townie action

4. AbT is accusing Kevin based on point 2

 

Wow...I think it's time for me to hire a ghostwriter because it seems noone understands me

 

1. SM's vote is not the deciding vote, Rhizo's is

2. Kevin insists that SM's additional vote  is a townie action that sealed Lego's fate deserves a double townie points (thus was perceived as more townish than others on a wagon, except for Samus).

3. AbT asks why it was deemed to be more important (stating that Rhizo's for example was more important) insists that SM's additional vote is not necessarily a townie action

4. AbT is accusing Kevin based on point 2

[Ali bin Turban]

 

I am on the fence whether to include Wolfpacks here or not. I ironically still stand by the wagon on him having been better than the sheer-inactivity wagon on Rafay yesterday, but in light of Lego's scumminess I am wondering how much towniness that confers Wolfpacks. The Lego wagon came out of nowhere, and until the VERY end it was Wolfpacks vs Rafay... the Lego wagon did not seem to be in opposition to the other two so much as it rapidly snowballed with votes from them both. I'm not sure how to read that. Thoughts?

Now, in terms of whom I so far think is *TOWN*...
Samus - Started the Lego wagon.
King Hitler - Per my examination of Ali's vote post list above, KH's shift from Rafay to Lego was significant along with Rhizo's; without removing the 4th vote from Rafay, Lego would not have been in front.

So let's see how everything else goes from here; expect this will be an interesting day.

-Preston

 

That's the thing with the wagons on D2. There were 4 significant ones(well, 3 if we don't count Samus wagon), but they were volatile and it's hard to read them. That how it looked before Samus started Lego's one:

 

Rafay (4): King Hitler KevinH, Lyner, Sister Midnight

Samus (1): legoboyvdlp,

Wolfpacks (4): iSocialism, Ali bin Turban, Rhizoctonia, Preston

KevinH (1): Wolfpacks

King Hitler (1): Samus

not voting : Finster (for reference)

 

None of the people here have moved except for Finster, KH, Rhizo and SM . Those who have moved have clearly believed their vote will be used better. Thing is there were no counter moves (except of Lego's) and the fact that Rafay's wagon ended with 2 people and Wolfpacks with 4 was in fact decided by those who moved and not by those who stayed (So it wouldn't be accurate to say Wolfpack's wagon was in more opposition to Lego's than Rafay's).

[Finster Baby]

Boy I can't keep straight who is who and pointing fingers as the accusations are flying.

Could AbT potentially be scum? Sure, he could be. I'm not 100% convinced that he is. Hell I'm not even 25% convinced he is. His posts have been, IMO, pro-town designed to help us weed out scum, tho his analysis on Rhizo's kill is a touch too detailed for my liking, as it reminds me of the deliberations we had as scum in the last game I played....

I'm looking more at KevinH and continuing to point my finger at Wolfpacks, as Kevin's posts just don't pass my smell test, and Wolfpacks hasn't been in to clarify his D2 positions.

Again, if anyone has info it would be great to have it. There might be people with night actions to consider that would appreciate it.

*runs off to check on the Quiddich team again*

[Ali bin Turban]

As for the people that ended elsewhere (not on Lego's wagon):

 

- iSoc: I'm still leaning on the town side from him. He's chosen Wolfpack and not some easy to hit inactive. Also I got the feeling from the time I was prodding him that he indeed believed in that there was 1 scum on no lynch wagon (not know but believed).

- Preston: Townie feeling - he's trying hard to understand what's going on and is pushing town rather than sitting back and waiting for the rest to work things out.

- KevinH: Won't repeat myself.

- Wolfpack: Just as I've previously said. Could have voted on Lego, yet he didn't (and he got the opportunity, even though Lego's wagon grow super fast)...what's more he didn't vote on Rafay too (though that could make him a little more suspicious). On the other hand, I think there was just a small time frame when he was in fact in danger (he was a dominant wagon for just a few hours - when people were migrating to Lego's wagon).

Also he's very calm (not an accusation, merely an observation with a dose of an admiration) - no matter what happened he seemed to be OK with the situation.

- Lurking trio: Lyner, Rafay, Mazuurek - not much to say about them, especially Mazuurek. I was opposed to lynching him but he should either state if he's interested in playing the game or not (and if he's not we should replace him). Lyner is vague as usually and you could just as well go read a wall and Rafay is Rafay, making strange comments all the time.

[iSocialism]

Samus is convinced that he knows who the next scum is, and think everyone will wait and vote for whoever samus says to vote for. When that happen, I think scum will try be on that wagon, regardless if samus is right. I would, rather samus not vote at all unit the last few hours. He's waiting to see what people will do, but the people are scared of what is going to happen. I think it's time to cast our votes on are suspicions.

 

Vote Rafay

 

I'm not voting for him because he's inactive but rather the fact that he hasn't provided much info to help the town. I think the only way we can get info from him, is by lynching him and see the results.

 

King Hitler - was early on lego wagon and seems to want  to help the town. His play style is confusing to get a read on.

Finster Baby - was with samus on the vote with lego, and has been active. Along with seeming to scum hunt.

Preston - not really sure

iSocialism - myself

Lyner - not helping the town

KevinH - I'm leaning more towards scum, I think his manipulating his numbers and statements to look like he helping town, but really he's trying to convince people to lynched townies.

Wolfpacks - At first I thought he was scummy, he has gotten a little bit more town points IMO, but I would like to see a list of all the players from him.

Samus - town - push and initiated the vote on lego 

Ali bin Turban - was agreeing with samus way before the vote on lego. Leaning towards town, but I know he's a clever guy, and will still watch out for him.

Sister Midnight - the switching of the votes and following the flow does not sit well with me. The fact that her and AbT are arguing over if her vote on lego was pro-town needs to stop. The more you have to prove yourself town, the scummy you my seem. I would suggest also presenting a list.

Rafay - inactive and not helping the town

Mazuurek - inactive and not helping the town

 

Top suspects

KevinH

Rafay

SM

 

In the middle

Preston

Wolfpack

Lyner

KH

 

Top townies (IMO)

Samus

FB

AbT

 

Others,

Mazuurek

[Wolfpacks]

I have got something to say but I have been at work all day and only got home an hour ago, I have read everything people have put and will give an explanation on what ABT calls my actions, but I'm extremely tired so please excuse me until then

[KevinH]

Unvote.

Nobody has joined me on Mazuurek

Vote: Rafay

Second choice, same as yesterday.
 

[Samus]

King Hitler - in on the lynch of Legoboyvdlp.  Posts seem analytically townie.

 

He switched votes when lego had already f'd up though, which makes him even more suspicious in my eyes.

[Sister Midnight]

King Hitler - was early Lego voter, but not sure about the vibe I get from him.  Moderate scum suspicion

 

Finster Baby - Also a Lego voter.  Seems to be pretty good at looking at evidence and concerned with Townie things. Not high scum suspect lsit

 

 

Preston - Has an authoritarian (in a good way) air about him.  Did not vote Lego.  Makes very perceptive posts.  Not high on my scum suspect lsit

 

iSocialism - Shows insight, but a bit aggressive in his approach.  Fingering me, when I think it is very clear I'm town.  Moderate scum suspect

 

Lyner - Not very active, when participating doesn't add much to the discussion by way of new insights.  Moderate scum suspect

 

KevinH - Very townie sounding and analytical, consistently shows perceptiveness.  Didn't vote Lego.  Not high scum suspect, but has potential for scum.

 

Wolfpacks - This is his first game, he's still figuring things out.  Hasn't come across as overly scummy, but worth watching.

 

Samus - Led lynch on Lego, posts unscummy things.  Probably the only person, other than myself, I feel confident is town.  Not on scum list at all.

 

Ali bin Turban -  I am not sure what to make of Ali.  I don't really know what the big deal is about Kev's double town points, I understand he isn't fingering me, but some of his points are not valid and we'll have to agree to disagree.  Moderate scum potential

 

Sister Midnight - Not scum

 

Rafay - inactive, I realize that is his style, but he isn't helping the town and I don't like the vibe I'm getting from him.  High scum potential

 

Mazuurek - inactive lurker, giving me a bad vibe, high scum potential.

[Preston]

I'm a little surprised the discussion about Ali's interpretation of Rhizo and SM's votes went on as long as it did. The clarification helped, but I am not sure it's taken us anywhere useful.

I did however raise an eyebrow at Ali's response to the hypothetical question I dropped onto the end of my last post:

Now here's a fun question: if we assume for the moment that Ali is scum and this was how he interpreted the votes, could this be why Rhizo was chosen as the night's kill?

I don't think Rhizo's position on the wagon was enough to get him killed. He was a great asset to us and a confirmed town to that. I've mentioned three possible reasons previously:
 
He was active enough, able to hunt down scums and was confirmed town (he hammered the vote). Only one that would fit this better is Samus.
 
But maybe you have some better idea as of why was he killed?

I threw out the 'fun question' to see what discussion it would generate, and moreso from others instead of from Ali himself - i.e. to see what scum pairings they might spin based on that premise. No one else took it anywhere that I saw, but Ali's last line felt a bit defensive/lashing out. Perhaps that is just his style, but it did make me pause.

Putting Ali aside - KevinH has switched to Rafay so he can have two votes on a wagon, abandoning his earlier metrics-based vote. It seems strange to shift this early just for sake of building a wagon; if you felt conviction enough for Mazuurek, what shook it and made Rafay the better option?

i think i can vote? if can i vote SM :3

Mazuurek... I THINK he just voted for SM? O.o And no one else seems to have noticed this. Combined with his earlier "I'm sorry for deciding not to vote" statement, I'm not sure what's going on here. However Kevin still swapped his vote away to Rafay instead, even after this. Mazuurek is listed as 'other' by iSoc and Ali says there isnt much to say about him... that worries me a bit to have him remain this undefined.

Wolfpacks has posted for time - saying he has something to say but he's tired. It's possible, but stalling doesnt always sit well with me.

Finster at least is saying he's looking at KevinH while suspecting Wolfpacks - gives us something specific to work with.

There are a lot of moving parts right now that make it hard to follow. I'd like to hear more scum/town thoughts from Rafay, since he now leads with 2 votes, and if Wolfpacks has something to say then let's hear it. And we still have the lingering half-claims that need to at some point resolve.

iSoc wants Samus to wait for last - but the longer we wait, the less discussion time we leave ourselves on what Samus thinks. When yesterday ended with Lego proving scum, I think everyone knew Samus would be someone to watch for Day 3 because of him starting that wagon all but proving him town; whatever he says is going to have a lot of weight. Once both Samus and Finster resolve their teased claims, I suspect that is when the day's discussion will really begin.

-Preston

[Sister Midnight]

Mazuurek... I THINK he just voted for SM? O.o And no one else seems to have noticed this.

Oh I noticed!  I decided to take it as a joke since he didn't use the right format. But I was also curious to see if anyone else would notice.

[KevinH]

KevinH has switched to Rafay so he can have two votes on a wagon, abandoning his earlier metrics-based vote. It seems strange to shift this early just for sake of building a wagon; if you felt conviction enough for Mazuurek, what shook it and made Rafay the better option?

 

They are close to the same in my view -- barely active, didn't vote, possibly scum in the theory that inactive scum-mates didn't save Legoboy.

 

The difference is that nobody joined me on Mazuurek but Rafay got a vote before mine.

[Mazuurek]

 

Mazuurek... I THINK he just voted for SM? O.o And no one else seems to have noticed this.

Oh I noticed!  I decided to take it as a joke since he didn't use the right format. But I was also curious to see if anyone else would notice.

 

i havent paid much attention and im new to mafia, and since everyone is voting on rafay i'll join in :3

Vote: Rafay

 

EDIT: learned english

Edited by Mazuurek, 07 July 2016 - 05:49 AM.

[Lyner]

Eh if Samus have conclusive proof on someone then it's best to reveal it in the last moment, if he doesn't then I'll leave the better judgment to him.

 

 

Newer Players:

Wolfpacks - Nothing suspicious if we take account that this is his first game. His scum friends could do better than that if he is truly a scum.

 

Mazuurek - Nothing suspicious if we take account that this is his first game, the lack of commitment is saddening, could also mean his scum friends told him to play the inactive card

 

Sister Midnight - Only following wagons, playing the newbie card really well

 

 

Not so new players:

Rafay - I've said it all on the past two days, you guys still let him have his way.

KevinH - Same old methodical Kevin, haven't said anything scummy yet, I got a good vibe.

Ali bin Turban - Playing a bit more defensive than his past games.

Finster Baby - Looking good, his actions have been on point.

 

iSocialism - I don't see why he suddenly targetted Rafay on day 3, not on day 2 or day 1.

 

King Hitler - Got a bad vibe from his style of postings. Early vote on Lego wagon gave some town credits though.

Preston - Took a neutral approach for things, as in not taking sides. Posting good kinds of wall of text.

Samus  - The only confirmed townie for now.
 

 

So possible suspects, without order:

-Preston

-King Hitler

-iSocialism

-AbT

-Rafay

 

 

Possible towns:

-Samus

-Finster

-KevinH

[Samus]

Possible towns: -Samus -Finster -KevinH

 

Funny your name does not appear in that list

 

iSoc wants Samus to wait for last - but the longer we wait, the less discussion time we leave ourselves on what Samus thinks.

 

I have a good reason why i'm waiting for close to end days, I simply don't want to go into D4 without being able to bring new info from D3.

 

If i'm right, (hopefully) everyone else will follow the wagon.. And it will be a simple end to D3, i'd rather generate more discussion on other leads so we have leads to take into D4 too.

 

Also guys Rafay is definitely town. 

Think about it, everyone was going to vote to lynch him on D2 - it was an easy lynch because he was inactive and wasn't going to defend himself. Scum must definitely knew this and it worked as an easy lynch to their advantage, they had nothing to do, no manipulating or persuading because everyone followed the agenda.

 

Scum would've discussed to save Rafay if he was really scum, and that wagon wouldn't have been lead on him so easy, if you read back, there was no defense for Rafay whatsoever apart from me and when Lego turned out to be scum, that's exactly how I knew Rafay was town.

 

So in my eyes, anyone who agrees with this and is still voting Rafay or pointing fingers at him does not have the towns agenda at heart.

 

 

/ooc

 

I got a new job, and I barely have time for anything at all anymore, but will post a longer reply sometime later about what happened last night

[Rafay]

Rafay - inactive and not helping the town

 

Doesn't make sense. I'm inactive that's why you vote for me but Kevin and SM who are more active than me are still top suspects?

 

The scum probably didn't save lego cuz he was new and inactive.

 

Vote: iSocialism  

 

Kevin and isoc have recently been pushing recklessly for a lynch w/o any evidence or facts.

[KevinH]

Rafay could be scum.  Here's a likely scenario.

The votes when Rafay was on the block:

Vote Count
 

Rafay (4): King Hitler KevinH, Lyner, Sister Midnight

Samus (3): legoboyvdlp, Preston, Rhizoctonia

Wolfpacks (2): iSocialism, Ali bin Turban

KevinH (1): Wolfpacks

King Hitler (1): Samus

Ali bin Turban (0):

Finster Baby (0):

iSocialism (0):

legoboyvdlp (0):

Lyner (0):

Mazuurek (0):

Preston (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):

Sister Midnight (0):

 

No Lynch (0):

Not voting: Finster Baby, Mazuurek, Rafay

 

 

Legoboyvdlp, now known as scum, was on Samus, whose wagon was at 3. Rafay and a third scum could easily be planning to jump on the Samus wagon late and bring it to 5.

 

Then Rhizoctonia  and Preston switched to Wolfpacks bringing his wagon to 4.  Assuming Wolfpacks is town, the scum still had a plan to save Rafay because they could easily bring Wolfpacks to 5.

 

Then King Hitler unvoted from Rafay, and Rafay the scum was out of danger.

 

I'm sure they were surprised when Legoboyvdlp accumulated votes from Samus, Finster Baby, King Hitler, Rhizoctonia, and Sister Midnight very quickly.  

 

Legoboyvdlp switched to Wolfpacks hoping his inactive scum buddies Rafay and Mazuurek would join him and bring Wolfpacks to 6,  It didn't happen.

 

He who hesitates is lost.