Iron Helix

If Theo is a doctor, this will go spectacularly bad. Hopefully Yates knows that.

Unvote Vote Theophilos Let's get this over with.

Counter productive. Not proper town play. Trolling. Spaz. etc These are meaningless buzz words. All you're doing is making arguments by adjective. There's no actual reasoned argument to be debated. Either explain your points as to why I'm wrong in a reasoned and cogent argument or ignore it. Responding back that "I'm a troll" is absolutely worthless in any objectifiable sense. Irrelevant. My role is ultimately expendable. I had no control over the revelation that I was town. So you're not sure he's scum. Yet you're willing to mislead everyone. That's good to know. Speaks volumes for the rest of what you do. You're equivocating. If "not being forthcoming" is what you meant, you should have said that. The proper question you should have asked was: "If Theo is Town, why would he not be forthcoming?" He hasn't lied. Should he be forthcoming? Yes, if for no other reason to get this over with. I guess the question I should have asked was "Do you have a way to distinguish if he's lying?". If not, then any claim he makes isn't going prove anything. Then we'd have to ask why you did all this. If it makes sense for him to do it, it makes sense for you to do it, so you're contradicting your original point. It's good to know you didn't mean it. I suppose that means that when you said it, you weren't using it to confer some sort of undue influence over the game by writing that. That the reader wasn't meant to judge what you said in any game context.

Also if you're a tracker, you would have seen Theo visit CS if Theo were the SK Van Helsing.

If I'm a town player and someone calls me scum in that manner, then it's not unlikely. Yet you've made multiple reasons posts wanting us to make assumptions about your alignment. You claiming knowledge first would prove your alignment better than parroting back everything Theo says. Really you didn't make an argument. An argument is comprised of premises and conclusions. You merely said you could be a scumcop who claimed for "lulz?". This implied there was no other reason for scum to claim (even though you say you thought I outed you, sort of making that an irrelevant point). I inferred from what you said that you are making the argument that scum would never claim early. That in reality was just a conclusion with no supporting premises framed in a question format to imply that anyone who disagrees is an idiot. The above quote does nothing to address what I said in any way that can be debated, since it is not an argument, but merely a subjective evaluation designed to incur self doubt and self attack. Every time I see this, I move you further towards the scum side on my little chart. You said he was scum first post. Since then you've changed to saying you don't know if he's scum. If Theo is town, he doesn't need to lie. Has he lied? If he's scum (as you initially claimed), how will you distinguish if he's lying? Again, hopefully you have more information for us to evaluate this. Last game we played here at least half the players had a night action. If you have indeed done all this because of that limited amount of information, then, yes, I'd disagree with your actions. You have also violated game rules. If he is scum, then that is a point in your favor. If KH was part of the wolf mafia, it is unlikely you are a wolf. If Van Helsing is a SK, it's unlikely the SK would also be a tracker/watcher, so that's also a point in your favor. However, if KevinH is scum and part of the wolf mafia, why did Theo also push for KevinH's lynch? It would only be plausible if he were the SK Van Helsing. And if he is the SK Van Helsing, it's unlikely he would have visited EM as well as kill CS. So... was KevinH scum?

Although... maybe there are two types of werewolves...? Probably a stretch, but the whole Green Werewolf is extremely confusing.

Yates, I have no idea if you are town or scum. If I had to place odds one way or the other, I guess you're more likely to be town than scum. Honestly, I think EM has a point. This might just all be a ridiculous circle jerk. And MutedFaith has been quiet the whole day to boot. Unvote Vote MutedFaith

You called him scum on the first post. You didn't mention he had a night action until after Theo had voted for you. From Theo's perspective, it looked as if you were acting as a cop role rather than a watcher/tracker, yet one who didn't even bother to claim he was a cop. The reason is we wouldn't want to mistakenly solidify you as town player merely on the basis of you claiming Theo had a night action. Yes a scum could easily claim early. If your argument is scum would never claim early, that just makes a meta game where a scum could claim early to pass himself as a town investigative role. We don't know anything about your role other than you know Theo had a night action. You won't even tell us your character's name. As far as we know, you have called someone scum merely on the basis that they had a night action. We don't know if you even knew that Theo visited EM. More to the point, we don't know if you know that Theo is scum. You may just be fishing for his role. You say there are possible town roles that can explain the "fishy" thing you saw. The two claims you are making are: 1. He did something at night 2. That something was suspicious The only reasonable position you can have to make that would be if you are more than just a tracker who saw Theo visit EM. Having a night action is not fishy and worthy of calling someone scum in the first post of the day. Visiting EM with that night action is not fishy and worthy of calling someone scum in the first post of the day. So you better know more than that to base your accusations off of. If he claims he's a doctor and you don't have something to refute that, you're in trouble. If he claims he investigated EM and you don't have something to refute that, you're in trouble. Because if he claims either of those (or something similar) and your reaction was to call him scum and his actions fishy from the get go, you, sir, are the suspicious one. Hopefully you have an ace up your sleeve with what you know about Theo's night action. If you are going to share everything at some point today, then you shouldn't be worried about this.

In regard to that, it was 1 crossbow (singular) and wolves (plural) that killed CS.

For the record I do not have a night action.

Objectively, the only thing that tells us is you know Theo had a night action. It doesn't prove alignment if that's what you're getting at. I'm not sure what"spill the beans" means, but if he's scum, I can't imagine him doing anything other than coming up with a plausible town claim. If you have some sort of result that is extremely specific, I suppose I'd agree with this approach. But it'd need to be so specific that it eliminates any plausible fake claims. After all you've said on this subject, if Theo comes up with a generic town claim and you don't have something extremely damning to refute it, in my book, you become more suspicious than Theo. We'll see as this plays out if your approach works for you.

Pshh. I prefer being single. My advise: women are pretty evil. Go gay. o/ She ain't lying! http://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/the_manipulated_man.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoPTPe33PQY

More than that he has said Theo had a night action. I'm certainly waiting for Theo before making any sort of final judgement. Also, a lot of people are being quiet. Not sure what to make of that. But Yates says he saw Theo do something "fishy". I'm just having trouble coming up with plausible events that can be classified as "fishy". Did Yates see Theo visit Commander Shepard? Did Yates just see that Theo had some sort of night action (akin to leaving one's house)? What else is there? Theo visited someone other than CS? The only thing I can come up with that can be called "fishy" and worthy of calling Theo scum on its own would be if Theo visited CS.

The worst possibility that a tracker/watcher would know about Theo would be that he visited CS the night he died. If that is what he knows, then I don't see the issue with coming out and saying that. My guess is he doesn't know that. As for claiming BP, I don't know if he is still claiming that. My assumption after all this was that he is not. I still don't see the problem with role claiming.

Also, I'm voting for you mostly because you won't role claim. There's no reason not to. You've already made the claim that you have investigative power. The rest of the role claim should be easy peasy.

Whoops, part of what I wrote got cut out. No, I think you should explain it. I have no reason to believe you actually have an investigative role. If you indeed do not have one, then you might just be making a gambit to solidify an investigative role claim****

It's not independent (roles had been sent out by then) and you've backed up that claim multiple times here. Maybe you were confused by what I said. I find it a bit hard to believe, but I might set it aside for now. In any event, after all this chances are you or Theo are getting lynched today. 50/50 shot. Not bad. Which is why I asked if you were still accusing Theo or knew about his night actions. No, I think you should explain it. I have no reason to believe you actually have an investigative role. If you indeed do not have one, then If you don't reveal what you know, then Theo will either deny having a night action or corroborate having a night action. If he denies it, all we know one of you is lying. If he corroborates having a night action, then you'd have to confirm if it matches with what you know. If you say it's different from what you know, then all we know is one of you is lying. If they are the same, then that might just be you trying to pass yourself off as having an investigative role. You might not have known anything at all to begin with. As opposed to: If you revealed what you know about Theo's night actions he'll either corroborate or deny it. If he corroborates it, then we judge it solely on the night action claim. If he denies it, all we know is one of you is lying. I'm not claiming to be an expert here, so if you are so great a player you should delineate your reasoning, not just trying to make me come up with it for you. Tell me what I'm missing.

Just to be clear: -You made a joke about a role claim. -You then claim that is your actual role multiple times -You use that role claim to call Theo scum, -claim he had a night action, -that you "have a reason for voting for him" -and "he knows what that reason is" -still won't tell us your actual role Do you still stand behind your accusation of Theo? To your knowledge, did Theo have a night action or not?

Right... Unvote Vote Yates

How exactly could I know that you are a bulletproof cop role if you hadn't have claimed it first? You say theo is scum first thing today, then you ask him to explain his night action. So which is it? Do you know if he's scum or just that he had a night action? And again, you might as well just tell us your role. Let us judge the full claim.

In fact, since you have outright claimed to be those things, you should just go ahead and tell us your role.

There are certain things that are known about my role.Those things have been verified by a mod confirmed Townie. 1. I have investigative abilities 2. I am BP There is a reason I am voting for you. You know what that reason is. You have exactly 1 post to explain what your night action was and why we shouldn't lynch you on the spot. If you're referring to me, I haven't verified either of those. Those were things that you claimed to be. So neither of those things are known to us. You still haven't told us the nature of what was revealed to you (if anything was).

Well there are only 4 people alive who didn't vote for Kevin. My role is already known. iSoc appears to be claiming to be an investigative role of some kind. That leaves MutedFaith and Robert2424. If: 1. werewolves are a faction, and as such know each other 2. Kevin was part of that faction then I would expect at least one of you two to be associated with him. Again, if nobody comes forward, the assumption is werewolves (or whoever killed CS) are evil.

Just another possibility... that the werewolves are the equivalent of masons. They can kill too, apparently. Under what circumstances (if that ability is limited or unlocked) are unknown. Why KevinH, a werewolf, came up as green (indicating town) if they were indeed scum, would be extremely confusing.