Yates

If you are concerned with the three above, why not simply unvote in order to avoid any potential derp hammer? Once everyone has come in, weighed in on the information presented, and responded to posts requiring response couldn't you easily simply return your vote? OR, even better, be the hammer? Isn't that preferable to the current game state where a silly mistake can result in a lynch before important posts are responded to? Heck - you may even need me to vet a claim or action or conversation. Knowing my alignment after the fact would sure be a big help in that process, wouldn't it?

And post 746 is precisely why I think your play - as well as EM's - is anti Town. You are setting up the Town for a derp hammer then going to turbo mislynch the hammer. Let me ask you this; Are you unconcerned about the fact Mango is ignoring the thread despite being in here - AGAIN - RIGHT NOW? Are you unconcerned about WHO Mango's neighbor is? Are you unconcerned about WHY Simternity claims to know Robert's slot is Town?

Name one. You see, Lyner, I'm going to get out of this lynch. You know why? Because I'm an uncountered investigative role. No. Correction. I am THE uncountered TOWN investigative role. WHEN I get out of this lynch, you and EM are going to have a LOT to answer for - even if we lynch your scum buddy Imran first. Only two possibilities would present as options after my flip - the exact two I stated in the narrative you quoted. LOL. Further evidence you are either a. not reading the thread or b. trying to provoke me. Last night I *literally* flipped a coin between Daniel and Imran. Coin flipped tails. I tracked Daniel. Daniel went nowhere. I have stated as much at least twice now.

Good post. Shows some insight. Need to fix one thing, though: This part is a little wonky. - Neighbors don't know each others' alignment [at least a Town neighbor wouldn't know if his neighbor was scum]. Sim scum would actually make Yates Town MORE likely. I've already linked to the game where I was a scum neighborizer and neighborized Town on my first night. - The Robert-Sim thing is certainly worth pursuing but that's not because of neighborizing. My being neighborized needs to be treated as a separate occurrence. That's why we need Sim to come in here and explain himself before day end. Otherwise? Good effort on this post.

I'll just point out that EM is also reading this thread once again and you will need to make him answer for his active lurking - especially at this critical juncture - if he does not respond and I'm hammered before being able to post again. http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/148/zztb.png [FYI - he's still here as of 13:56 my time. I just refreshed before clicking the post button]

Actually, this post really requires further scrutiny: Let me address the bolded first before we get into the bigger picture argument. The bolded is precisely what I'm afraid of. A hammer is a WIFOM bomb at this point. Two scenarios are equally likely: 1. Scum may hammer me because - dead Town PR [bonus: investigator with a BP] OR 2. Scum may be on my wagon LOOKING FOR a Town derp hammer to set up tomorrow's mislynch. As to the larger point - what is terrible about your "who is afraid of being hammered" accusation is that it is exactly the opposite of what you are purporting it to be. Let's ask this question a different way; who benefits from an extended day? When you look at it in that context, you realize that SCUM are looking for the day to end quickly so they can go about their business of killing people in the night. There is EVERY reason for Town to want - especially this day with important info still needed - extra time to sort through evidence. Pushing to rush a mislynch looks really REALLY bad for you, Lyner.

Ftr? "Oh right, scum is afraid of death..." is the kind of fake push that makes me MORE likely to consider you scum. And something I hope is taken into context tomorrow if I'm here or not.

I'll say it again, a Tracker doesn't need to be Town. And there is a possibility that there is no cop, this is a closed theme mafia, after all. (I remember seeing the mod pointed that out in the past closed game). So you think the mod sent Town into a game with however many scum plus a SK WITHOUT some way of finding said anti-Town roles? Is this your stance right now? Because you know it's garbage. Right. Only scum is afraid of death. There's no reason for a Town tracker to be afraid of being derp hammered, right? [epic eye roll] At this point I don't even care if I'm lynched. All my lynch does is mod confirm my alignment if not my role. However, because I *AM* Town I want my lynch to have purpose. That purpose will be limited if certain information does not come out BEFORE my mislynch. EM claims he doesn't want me lynched before he hears from Simternity. I'm not making that up. And it's important that we DO hear from Simternity. So that is a valid excuse to simply unvote in order to PREVENT the derp hammer that you claim to be trying to avoid. It has become evident to me that certain game play decisions that are OBVIOUS to me can not be taken for granted [iH - an IC - voting for an uncountered investigative role, for example]. Thus, I have enunciated said play to make it clear. I'm not going to rehash an argument from Day 1. But you are wrong. And there is a difference between a GAMBIT and a LIE. I did the former - not the later. And it is 100% Town motivated; a fact that SHOULD BE evident to any skilled mafia player. Here's what you missed: 1. You should unvote to prevent a derp hammer [thus ending day prematurely] 2. We need to know who neighborized EM 3. We need to hear from Simternity [especially re: how he KNOWS Robert is Town] 4. We need to sort out why there are so many protective roles Kind of important stuff.

Also, it's hard to be "patient" when you are a Town PR sitting at L-1 and the game could hing on your mislynch. It's even harder when one of the people voting for you sees you at L-1 but is unwilling to unvote you even though it is agreed by all parties that there is information that needs to come out before the lynch - especially when you and EM keep disappearing at this critical time. Comprende?

Fair enough. You see why that seems suspicious though, right?

Electric Lurker is back. http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1844/7z2g.png Also, hi iSoc. Hope you are enjoying the read in this "boring" game!

Really? Now Lyner reads and leaves? http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/1826/jgya.png Wait. Is Lyner voting me? Oh right: This is called "active lurking" and is a VERY strong scum tell. So there's scum #2 on my wagon if I get lynched. They both came in and read the thread. Neither has a reason not to unvote in case of accidental hammer. They are both hoping for a derp hammer. Yeah. EM first. Lyner 2nd. Unless we have a vig. Then shoot EM and lynch Lyner.

Gross. EM once again comes in - lurks - ignores important game related info - then leaves. He is ABSOLUTELY tomorrow's lynch if I get hammered. There is zero excuse for him to still be voting me at this point and you better NOT allow him to wriggle out of it. http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9438/2x2g.png

You guys have been here for a little while now. I'm expecting good posts from each of you that respond to game related PERTINENT information - especially as pertains to the extremely important points I have made and that require addressing. Otherwise, you can explain your active lurking tomorrow if I'm hammered in the mean time. http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3920/53ns.png That's right. I'm calling you out EM and Lyner. Please post now that you have been called out and there is a TON of important information that requires your input. Thanks.

EM - why do you keep logging in to this thread and failing to respond to anything pertinent? That's sketchy, dude. I'm making this fact known so if I'm lynched this is another nail in your coffin. I don't understand the Town motivation in ignoring ALL the important questions I've posted only to have you ignore the pertinent stuff, cherry pick something completely irrelevant, then make a personal attack. That is NOT Town behavior. Your decision not to unvote when I'm at L-1 - as an UNCOUNTERED INVESTIGATOR - and even YOU need something answered before day end is also NOT Town behavior. As stated to killgor, I can't disprove your fakeclaim YET. But I CAN say you are being totally sketchy and that you MUST be the lynch tomorrow if I get lynched today. Also, if I'm lynched Town needs to look at my wagon tomorrow and recognize there will be at LEAST two scum on it. EM is the first one that needs lynching due to super anti Town play. Good luck finding #2 without getting the rest of the info I asked for before day end. This is VERY frustrating.

This is a personal attack and has no place in the game. iSoc also personally attacked me. AND his last post was to self-hammer and claim the game was boring. See how that's scummy?? Please respond to actual game related questions.

So why not unvote to prevent this from happening? Or are you hoping for a derp hammer from Town so you can paint them as scum tomorrow? The power is in your hands, dude. How hard is it to unvote then revote after we have all the info we need? Also, why do you STILL keep your neighbor a secret? You are making no sense. And you will be killed tomorrow when I flip Town. You need to believe that if you are actually a JOAT because you will have to answer for today's play which is anti Town as heck.

Le sigh. You were *just* here and ignored a simple yes/no question? This is like pulling teeth.

BTW killgor, while you are still here, do you agree that I *should* be considered unlynchable until countered?

BTW - I'm at L-1. If anyone hammers me, treat that as a scum claim as well. I would appreciate an unvote - even if you plan on ultimately lynching me - until the questions that NEED TO BE ANSWERED TODAY are answered. Otherwise? You deserve the mislynch and deserve the loss headed your way.

Well, yes, but how did we narrow down the scum pool? By having no one claim? No. I gambited. We got claims out of the gambit. We voted for someone off the wagon [my idea]. We eliminated suspects based on the claims FROM the gambit. Et voila. We nailed a killing faction. So yes - my gambit is how we avoided a mislynch yesterday.

Right. But bear in mind that if my lynch were to still go through, that wouldn't clear Simternity. If there are 4 neighbors in 2 neighborhoods now, he could conceivably be the scum neighbor. That said, we need to know who all the neighbors are and hold them to it.

I'm suspect of his claim but I can't disprove it. That's why I'm not voting for him. It seems "convenient" that he chose to use his lightning rod immediately after we lynched the SK but, again, that just makes his claim suspicious and not disproven. There's obviously no way of proving the "empower" claim. I don't even know why that ability would have been used AT ALL on N1 considering I could have been scum or SK and he WOULD have in effect made me a strongman killer that could have killed through a doc protect. In fact, I think the way that power works is I would have killed the doctor AND my target if I had been a killing role targeting a player being doc protected. The more important part of his claim today is that he was neighborized - but NOT by Simternity. Do you believe there is a valid Town reason to keep his neighborizer a mystery?

Well, all I can tell you is that's silly, childish, and not really a good way to play mafia. You need to recognize that there are GREAT reasons to lie as Town. Misleading and misdirection are ABSOLUTELY tools that can be used to catch scum. How did we catch iSoc yesterday, for example? I know. I know. He wasn't "scum" but he WAS anti Town. And we caught him because my gambit helped us limit the scum pool. And that's a fact. We also have all the information from today AS WELL AS yesterday's gambits to inform our future lynches. We are at a point in the game where scum are running out of options and fake claimers will have to explain themselves if their claims are proven wrong. And that is ALSO because of my gambit. I'm playing this game as a mod confirmed Town. The only way to disprove my Towniness is by having a Town investigator role counter claim me. At this point in the game there would be no reason not to. You know why I won't be countered? Because I *AM* the investigator. Scum knows it and they CAN'T counter without exposing themselves. They can't afford a 1 for 1 swap. period. If you still have doubts about me on Day 3 or Day 4? Then we can talk. For now? I can't for the life of me figure out why I even have to waste these pixels defending myself when the play here is as obvious as the nose in front of your face.

Where Yates Defends Himself and Makes an Appeal to Logic As already stated, even if you don't like or agree with my gambits there is no denying that my gambit from yesterday prevented a mislynch and my gambit from today gives us the information we need to sort out the other scum. Both of these statements are matters of FACT, not opinion. Now let's look at the three people that voted for me early, shall we? 1. EM - What strikes me about your vote is the sheer stupidity of it. If you ARE a JOAT and you DID use a lightning rod last night, as you claim, why would you have voted for me? How would that have proved that I didn't watch or track last night? You realize that if my lynch goes through I'm going to flip Town and I'm going to flip Imhotep, as I claimed. I don't know if Kazi is going to show you my role but if he does you will be even more screwed. The bottom line is if my lynch goes through I DEMAND that you are tomorrow's lynch. There is zero Town reason behind your vote. 2. Iron Helix - You are really the most disappointing player in this game. You are the ONLY confirmed Town and you have FAILED to lead this Town despite several requests. YOU need to be dispassionate about the information being presented and process it in a logical way. Why did you vote me after EM claimed lightning rod? I can only assume you are either newer to mafia or didn't understand how the role works. You had zero reason to believe I didn't use a watch power last night at the time of your vote - even if I didn't. That means you were willing to vote for a claimed Tracker [who was confirmed the previous day] and a claimed watcher [who at that point had yet to be disproved]. Do you understand how dumb and reckless that is? 3. D3ad - Your predecessor protected me N1. So as of Day 1, at least, your slot thought I was Townie McTownerson and worthy of protection. Not only that, EM [who is also inexplicably voting for me] claims he used an EMPOWER ability on me N1 thus HE thought I was Townie McTownerson as of N1. FINALLY, Muted Faith/Montosh/Simternity NEIGHBORIZED me N1 thus confirming THEY thought I was Townie McTownerson. With all of that as a background, plus the fact your slot continued to protect me last night and there was no kill, WHY would you vote for me today when a lightning rod claim did NOT disprove my night action and actually would have SUPPORTED it? You need to think about your play because if my lynch goes through, you are going to have to explain why you are still alive and why there are so many ways for Town to stop a kill because one of you three is lying about your protection ability. And that's a fact, jack. To EVERYONE - Do you agree that as a Town we have an investigative role? Do you agree that as of this point any investigative role should have at least TWO results? If you agree with both of these points, WHY would you try to lynch the ONLY claimed investigative role? Bottom line - if someone wants to come out and claim tracker or watcher or cop? Cool. Lynch me. I'm fine with that. It's like having a 3rd investigation FOR FREE. When I flip Town? Lynch them. Because they are lying. And there would be no Town motivation to fake an investigation role. Can you AT LEAST make someone counter my investigation ability so you can catch ACTUAL scum?? I'm wearing my unconfirmed investigation claim as a mod confirmed Town claim. Why some of you aren't treating it as such at this point BOGGLES my mind.