352 replies to this topic

[Falzis]

oohh this is a hard game so random

[Electric Mango]

This game will prove to be quite interesting. I've never played a game like this before so I can't rely on past strategies. I like the brainstorming that Narsis has put forth already. I like the voting idea because it encourages discussion and by the same token will move us one step closer to uncovering enemy alliances. There may be some draw backs to this though that we do not yet realize. It will be important for us to think of as many angles as we can before taking action.

Hypothetical Situation
==============

If I were to be the first one to shoot somebody I will still be alive but w/ no bullet. The scum would not target me because I am no longer a threat to them as there is no way that I could kill them. They would target someone w/ a bullet left. Being one of the first people to shoot should actually increase your chances of surviving longer into the game.

Win Conditions
==========

What are they? It's possible that there could be 4 people left at the end. Would the town win if they had the majority or only if all the mafia are executed?

How I Think the Game Will Go Down
=======================

The order in which people are shot will vary but I predict that the only people who will be shot will be those with bullets left. If that is the case it's easier to imagine the killings as follows:

Player 1 kills Player 9 (bullet left)
Player 2 kills Player 8 (bullet left)
Player 3 kills Player 7 (bullet left)
Player 4 kills Player 6 (bullet left)
Player 5 kills Player 1-4 (no bullets left)

1. Sir Jesus ()
2. Narsis ()
3. vgmmaster ()
4. Curufinwe ()
5. Falzis ()
6. Electric Mango ()
7. CanucksDynasty ()
8. Aquinas ()
9. KevinH ()

Any body think the scene in Reservoir Dogs where they have the Mexican standoff sound familiar?

[vgmmaster]

While the idea may work in theory that if player 1 kills 9, 2 kills 8, etc or whatever slowly eliminates the scum surely, you have two problems. The first is, the order itself. What if scum are among the first to kill, and player 5 makes the wrong choice (so both scum are still alive)? Another is, while a screw up could make it easy to find scum, the scum could play along with the order in an attempt to prevent being caught. So really, I fail to see how it might work in practice.

Also, I find your comment interesting about not knowing how the town wins. If you are indeed a townie, you would know that the town wins when all scum are killed. Or if you're referring to if it's 2-2 with no bullets left, I believe scum would win (I believe that's how it worked in the previous style game, though Mole can correct me if I'm wrong).

That's correct.

Edited by molestargazer, 11 April 2009 - 05:44 PM.

[CanucksDynasty]

Confirmed.

Sorry for the late reply. Long weekend and spending it with the family. Never played Texas before so I need to read up on the rules and the previous posts.

CD.

No worries.

Edited by molestargazer, 11 April 2009 - 05:45 PM.

[Electric Mango]

While the idea may work in theory that if player 1 kills 9, 2 kills 8, etc or whatever slowly eliminates the scum surely, you have two problems. The first is, the order itself. What if scum are among the first to kill, and player 5 makes the wrong choice (so both scum are still alive)? Another is, while a screw up could make it easy to find scum, the scum could play along with the order in an attempt to prevent being caught. So really, I fail to see how it might work in practice.

I wasn't suggesting that is how we should play it but how the game might naturally tend to progress. The intent was more to bring notice to this twist in the game and not to propose a townie strategy. Also you mention BOTH scum still alive. Both is a definitive word, it can only mean that there are two scum. A townie role PM nor the rules say exactly how many scum there are.

Also, I find your comment interesting about not knowing how the town wins. If you are indeed a townie, you would know that the town wins when all scum are killed. Or if you're referring to if it's 2-2 with no bullets left, I believe scum would win (I believe that's how it worked in the previous style game, though Mole can correct me if I'm wrong).

I was actually referring to what it sounded like, what are the end conditions? You pointed out that I should know that based off of the townie PM so that almost certainly makes you a townie and your comments based on 2 scum may just be an experienced speculation on your part. I tend to believe that you are a townie myself. As for why I had asked about the win conditions was not to set a trap however. I wish I would have been so clever to think of it. The truth is that I had simply forgotten the win conditions were already sent to me as I was searching through the rules to pick up clues. If I know mafia players they waste no time casting fingers and votes for the slightest mistake and I fear that coming to me. I ask that you remember that I spoke the truth to all of you even though I knew that it may endanger me.

[vgmmaster]

Just for clarification on the both part, it is basically speculation as you said. But with 9 players, 2 scum would make sense in my opinion.

[Aquinas]

what do you mean one not loaded?

Well, if I have two pistols and one bullet, one has no ammo. However, I need two so they can be clacked together because i'm a real gangster...
Probably not a good choice of words for a game of mafia either, is it?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=click%20clack

[KevinH]

The scum need the townies to kill each other.

It hurts the town worse when a townie with a bullet remaining is killed.

A possible plan:

• While we are all alive, we arrive at agreement as to who will be the eventual survivor.
• We decide an order in which we will get killed, using all the bullets.
• Someone who doesn't follow the plan is assumed to be scum and is killed next.

I think a scheme like this will give the town the best chance.

This counts as a 'game breaking strategy'.

Edited by molestargazer, 11 April 2009 - 05:43 PM.

[Electric Mango]

We have to agree that we can only kill a member who has already fired their weapon with the only exception being the first kill. This is the towns best win scenario. As Narsis stated we must vote who will be the next to fire their bullet and by doing so, be the next one on the chopping block. As Kevin said, those who do not follow this process must automatically be assumed as scum and be executed.

Just to clarify why it is in our best interest to kill only those who have fired their weapon:

The Town Must Kill All Mafia ~ The more people killed the better our chances.

As I stated before, if we shot only people with bullets then we would have 4 people left alive at the end of the game. Not very good odds for us.

If we only kill those who have fired, then we will only have 1 left at the end. Very good odds.

Scum will try to deviate from this strategy when it becomes do or die.

The first day we must vote for two people. The first will be who is executed and the second will be for the executioner.


Thoughts?

[Narsis]

to be honest...i almost think my plan is game-breaking. the only difference between it and Kevins(which is game breaking) is that we choose as we go rather then all at once.

i've thought about possible strats before the game even began...

the best i can think of is the choose as we go, killing the last person to fire off a shot...

if scum are chosen first they can fire their shot all they want it will only change the order a bit...

as long as 1 scum is alive and neither side has any shots...i'm assuming scum would win...

thus any strategy where more then one person would be alive without a bullet means trouble for the town...

now that i think about it...

my idea isn't necessarily game breaking...

essentially we are playing mafia as usual...

with a slight difference in how the lynches work...

and yes that's right EM...exactly what i'm thinking...

also...

if you wonder why i'm talking like this...

it's my "brainstorming" type of speaking...

[Electric Mango]

I'm on the same page with you Narsis. I think we have our strategy but I would like to also hear everyone's thoughts as well. Also nothing wrong with typing as you think. I tend to give you more of a protown read because it gives the impression that you are not trying to hide anything. I think we have the makings of a successful start and as soon as the weekend is over I look forward to a lot more activity from our other players.

\,,/

[KevinH]

I didn't intend to make it game-breaking.
I was only maximizing the chances for the town; the town would lose if we picked the wrong player to start.

I'm liking Electric Mango and Narsis for making protown arguments. This will be a different sort of game because we won't have a vote history.

Once the scum shoot, they are no longer a threat per se, but we will need to eliminate them to win.

[Narsis]

in this kind of game...there's a fine line between game-breaking and not-game-breaking strats. the best strats for the town are game breaking...and those that aren't...tend to favour the scum a bit more. it's a fine line and a tough one to walk...

[vgmmaster]

@Kevin - Narsis I could see, but Mango, while good intentions I'm still not sure on about the "how the town wins" comment. Still rubs me the wrong way to be honest.

[Falzis]

I'm just reading, I'm always here. I just don't have any ideas of my own.

I wouldn't know if the strats suggested are good or illegal (mole?). So I'll go with whatever the veterans go for.

If I see something 'illegal', I'll stick some Orange text after it saying so.
If not, you can assume it's OK - but give me 24 hours to find it first.

Edited by molestargazer, 12 April 2009 - 10:46 AM.

[Narsis]

in that case my strat is legal.

so...two people to vote for today...who shall it be?

[molestargazer]

Sir Jesus and Curinfwe have been prodded.

[Curufinwe]

Sorry been busy, but have been glancing, as is my first game, and I don't know everyone that well, I am taking time to assess people.

Got no ideas on stratagey, defiantly liking EM's stratagey, but it may need some work, mind you I don't fully understand it, give me time.

[Sir Jesus]

Ummm EM, nice catch. He did say both scum. This slip definitely needs to be noted more.

SFOS: vgmmaster

[vgmmaster]

@Sir Jesus - I'm assuming your new (I don't recognize your name in the mafia arena), let me explain. Now, my numbers may be off as it's been some time since I last played (not counting the recent mini), but iirc, the size of the mafia is roughly 1/4 of the players in the game. So in a 12 player game, one would suspect there to be 3 mafia members. With this being a 9 person game, mathematically, 2 sounds like the number which has the highest probability of happening.

Also, him?