Ok, a few things:

 

1. CD's death is probably the result of his experience, and the fact that he generally gives good analysis on later days. However, I agree with d3mon that he probably wasn't the BEST option, as his behavior (supporting not one but two consecutive no-lynches to give the cop some time) was definitely NOT what he usually does, and this inherently places some suspicion on him. Now that I think about it, this may explain why he was chosen by tha mafia: They may have thought that CD had some sort of investigative ability himself, and he was pushing for no-lynch because he wanted to buy some time for his ability. Anyway, the only thing we learned for a fact from his death is that there are vanilla townies in this game as well.
    
   
2. On the issue of the Cop: There is either no cop in this game, OR (and I find this more likely) it's different than the "1-shot" investigators many of us are used to. If it exists, it has to be something that thematically sits well with a coffee shop, so I wouldn't expect a "Security guard 3"
    
   
3. I must say that I find our RPers mildly suspicious. It's clear that they consider themselves to be part of the same team, whether that's only because they share the same hobby, or because they actually know they're on the same side remains to be seen. Tracker's latest post reinforces my suspicion. Of course, a scenario is possible where one of them are townie, the other is mafia, and the mafia is publicly supporting the townie to score townie points. If this is the case, than I'd put my vote on Tracker being the scum.
   But what really makes me cautious is this: RP can be used as a subtle form of manipulation as it presents fiction as fact. Yes, we all love reading how you were late from work, and how you drink your coffee and whatnot, but it can also be used to hide true motives and possibly distract from objective judging of the player
   

Tracker was walking along the street at a leisurely pace with a slight spring in his step. He had just gotten off of work, and he had the rest of the week off now! Just a few more groceries to buy at the remodeled local supermarket (something about a mass murder happening there, Tracker didn't really pay attention to these sorts of things) and then he could start heading home! He really didn't get many days like this anymore; he was so busy dreaming of being able to finally attend medical school that he worked himself to death usually. After all, if he wasn't working then he wasn't making money which could pay off the tuition. The only reason he was even taking this vacation was because his boss forced him to; something about 'it's regulation'.

 

So, with groceries in hand Tracker made his way back to his small condo on the North side of IRONtown. It was nothing special, just a simple one bedroom flat that was sparsely furnished, but it would do for now. After all, he planned on moving away at the end of the year when he had enough to pay for the first semester. He admired the small gardens in front of some of the storefronts but frowned a bit as he noticed the darkening skies above him. "Damn it... don't rain, just hold out a little longer..." Sadly his prayers were destined to be unanswered as the rain began to heavily fall. "DAMN it!" Tracker cursed as he made a break for the nearest open storefront. As he was grateful for the cover that the building provided, his relief turned to fear as he noticed where he was: the café.

 

Good luck everyone!

 

PS: What would we like to name this fateful Café?

 

I went and re-read every post, so I can hopefully contribute to this game. The underlined portion of Tracker's post makes me think he could be hinting that he has some kind of doctor role. I'm not 100% sure if that role exists in this game. Can someone clarify what a Doctor could do? I guess maybe revive someone that is night killed? Anyway, I'm pointing this out to discuss, as I think it might be some kind of info we might have missed. Maybe it was a way of hinting at a power role?

 

I was already kind of leaning towards voting for Angel, and the retalitory vote against d3mon seems a little unnecessary and reckless, so that makes me think he could be Mafia even more. I will hold off on voting for a day or 2 more. Also, someone was accusing KevinH of being inconsistent because he voted for a No-Lynch on D1, and then rather quickly voted for someone on D2. I also Voted for No-Lynch, and think we should vote someone today, but doing it so quickly after the night ended is a little suspicious. Why not wait for more information to possibly come, and risk being accused because you just randomly voted? It doesn't seem like a smart thing to do, unless you're Mafia, hoping people will just bandwagon on D3mon.

 

So KevinH is also a suspect in my eyes.

A doc will typically pick a player each night stop a night-kill if that player is chosen by the scum. I guess that's the same as reviving now that I think of it.

 

I like the discussion. The attempts to twist my positions will reveal the true scum.

 

To the true townies:

• 
   
  
• Did I ever want the cop to reveal himself?
  
• Did I wait or did I start discussion myself?
  

CanucksDynasty was crushed to death?

 

By Grabthar's Hammer, by the sons of Wartham, you shall be avenged!

 

A post with no discussion that makes you active without saying anything. Yes, it could just be a comment post, and my point was minor, but my analysis stands.

 

You then made your first analysis post as the sixth to contribute theories on day two. Out of ten. That's waiting if I have ever seen it.

 

Now we should have discussion and votes on alternate candidates. Hopefully the cop can influence us in the right direction with his additional infomation.

 

Seems pretty non-ambiguous to me. The cop doesn't have any extra sway over the rest of us without revealing his role as he can't reveal what this 'additional information' is without giving away his role. So care to explain what you meant by this if not that you wanted the cop to reveal himself?

Putting aside any so-called justifications of votes, you can guess whom the cop might be.

 

Votes so far:

KevinH votes d3mon

BeeBs votes KevinH

Tracker votes Preston

d3mon votes Angel

Angel votes d3mon

Tracker votes Nerau

KevinH, BeeBs, d3mon, or Angel could be the cop letting us know that they found scum.

Tracker could be the cop letting us know that Preston was found to be townie.

Maybe Angel investigated somebody else and found them to be townie and thinks d3mon would be a good guess so he can investigate again tonight.

 

If the town mis-lynches the cop, we can look back and see what the votes were and get information.

 

We can also piece together who is defending whom. If d3mon is discovered to be scum, then BeeBs' vote on me becomes suspect.

 

None of this discloses anything to the scum. We can each choose whom to follow but the scum won't know for sure whom to night-kill.

Likewise, if there's a doc, he has information upon which to choose the player he protects.

Did I ever want the cop to reveal himself?

Well you said ...

 

Hopefully the cop can influence us in the right direction with his additional infomation.

 

Implicitly you're saying the cop should come out.

The cop could mistakenly have seen your post as a

signal to reveal himself especially if the cop is

inexperienced and don't know the right time

when to roleclaim. You should have clarified earlier

that he can use other means to reveal his investigation.

 

Did I wait or did I start discussion myself?

 

DAY 2 STARTS

DISCUSS WHY CD WAS KILLED

SOME ROLEPLAYING

KEVINH VOTED SOMEONE

DISCUSS WHO TO VOTE

 

I think that's what happened

So, Tracker. What do you think of my suspicion on you?

@Kaziocore, FO, BeeBs, Tracker - I agree that KevinH has been a little inconsistent but if Mafia lynched CD because of his experience (I agree with ccabal that this is the most probable reason). Then, lynching KevinH is like giving them what they want, on a silver platter...

 

His vote for me hasn't helped his case but as he stated, I was probably the most inactive player at that time and on a day when town has effectively no knowledge to work with, voting for the inactive player sounds logical.

 

P.S. I am not saying that KevinH is not scum, but we have already lost one of the more experienced players... and IMHO loosing another experienced townie can be catastrophic. Also, if he is not scum, I suspect that atleast a couple of scum are trying to frame him.

@Kaziocore, FO, BeeBs, Tracker - I agree that KevinH has been a little inconsistent but if Mafia lynched CD because of his experience (I agree with ccabal that this is the most probable reason). Then, lynching KevinH is like giving them what they want, on a silver platter...

 

His vote for me hasn't helped his case but as he stated, I was probably the most inactive player at that time and on a day when town has effectively no knowledge to work with, voting for the inactive player sounds logical.

 

P.S. I am not saying that KevinH is not scum, but we have already lost one of the more experienced players... and IMHO loosing another experienced townie can be catastrophic. Also, if he is not scum, I suspect that atleast a couple of scum are trying to frame him.

 

What makes you think I'll vote for KevinH??

Personally, I don't really suspect KevinH yet...

Well.. I got an entirely different impression when I read your post.. :V

5 User(s) are reading this topic

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KevinH,d3mon,CanucksDynasty,Electric Mango,Kaziocore

 

Hello CanucksDynasty and Electric Mango!

 

I wish you were here ...

To answer your question about why you were singled out. As you have admitted yourself, you have been relatively inactive this game, and when you have posted they have been shorter than your analyses in the past (with a few excuses too). This is of course excluding your previous post; nice and meaty, excellent. And yes, the others you named are also experienced, and allow me to illustrate my current thoughts on each of the living players.

...

Preston: You already know a bit of this, but to elaborate. You are known for your long posts and thorough analysis, and yet in this game it has been lacking. While you claim that you are busy, I can't just take your word for it; this is a game of lying after all. So I'm sorry if you legitimately are busy, but I can't take that excuse into account.

...

 

In terms of perceived experience, I was referring to the fact that my 'perceived' experience is quite low as I've never participated in an IRON Mafia game before. However, those that have been paying attention know that I've mentioned playing Mafia many times on other forums. In your case,a similar situation may apply; that is why I added the 'perceived' modifier as if the Mafia is targeted experienced players then only their perception of which are experienced matters.

 

To make a small confession, in reality you were my number 3 choice for Mafia. The vote against you was to see if you would start to contribute if you were threatened. You did, which is good (contribution!) and bad (...the timing). However, not automatically reacting in a revenge vote is a mark in your favor. Since the gambit has now served its purpose, onto the next target.

There are times when the truth, no matter how unfortunate or suspicious, is still the truth. I genuinely was gone for most of day 1, and my schedule has less time for mafia then it did in the previous two games. You can question and critique my inactivity all you wish, but I will also remind you that I entered this game as a backup/replacement after stating in the signup thread - before the game started, before I ever got a PM - that I was busy. I would have had to be planning very far in advance if that was a deception, and banking on someone going idle so I could get a role to then employ said deception. So yeah... I'm sorry but using my prior activity level as a scumtell doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

I will agree that getting a focused attack on me did give me a jolt of adrenaline as I essentially went "WTF? where did that come from?" and started wondering if I was being set up - so I attempted to make more time for this and sat down for a good analysis post. I can't guarantee I will maintain that level of activity, though I'll try to do so periodically.

 

I appreciate your attempt to stun people into activity a bit more now that youve described your gambit, but on the same token it does not clear my suspicion of you; I could see this being a scum tactic to throw suspicion around (possibly with some distance votes) and see what sticks.

 

Your explanation of 'perceived' suggests an interesting viewpoint. To satisfy some of your curiosity I will state concretely that I have only ever played mafia here on IRON's forums, and I have only had two games prior to this one. If I come across as experienced then well and good - but then we are still left with the question of why you left other visibly experienced players (in terms of games played, as visible in this forum) from your list. I suppose some of the answer to this comes from your suspect list as you describe it (or at least your position on those individuals), but then we have to ask which came first - your list or your experience theory? Chicken/egg; not going there just now.

 

Not enough to go on yet - I will keep an eye on you to see what other 'gambits', if any, you play in the future. At present you appear to be pressing KevinH rather hard - another ploy, or actual suspicion? Thus far I think KevinH appears more town than you do.

 

Putting aside any so-called justifications of votes, you can guess whom the cop might be.

 

Votes so far:

KevinH votes d3mon

BeeBs votes KevinH

Tracker votes Preston

d3mon votes Angel

Angel votes d3mon

Tracker votes Nerau

KevinH, BeeBs, d3mon, or Angel could be the cop letting us know that they found scum.

Tracker could be the cop letting us know that Preston was found to be townie.

Maybe Angel investigated somebody else and found them to be townie and thinks d3mon would be a good guess so he can investigate again tonight.

 

If the town mis-lynches the cop, we can look back and see what the votes were and get information.

 

We can also piece together who is defending whom. If d3mon is discovered to be scum, then BeeBs' vote on me becomes suspect.

 

None of this discloses anything to the scum. We can each choose whom to follow but the scum won't know for sure whom to night-kill.

Likewise, if there's a doc, he has information upon which to choose the player he protects.

If we have a multi-use cop, then I'd think we DONT want a process-of-elimination list like this... but it does explain a bit about how to play with a 'normal' cop and doc; interesting. If I understand you correctly, then this means the cop is using their votes to indicate what they find, and the full information only comes out after their death proves their identity... at which point we go back and piece together whatever they had to give us. Just hope the cop doesnt investigate a bunch of townies in a row and end up leaving some false-positive votes...

 

I look forward to seeing what discussion happens from here; suspicion is starting to fly fast and furious. It may not be until tomorrow that we really come up with something solid though - today seems to be establishing who is voting for/against whom so that when more people die today/tomorrow we'll be able to work with that data.

 

-Preston

As much as my strategy depends on working with the cop, we need to consider also that there might not be a cop.

 

Maybe it's a one-use security guard who chose not to use his power last night. Maybe it's a normal cop who chooses not to play like I would.

 

Going with a more "pure" approach to mafia and looking for scum-tells, I have to look hard at those that are using weak logic behind their votes. In a sense, weak logic is better than no logic (my vote included) but it would be easy for the scum to lead a lynch on a townie and say, "oops, I thought he was scum..."

Unvote.

 

I know for sure one townie (me).

I know for sure one player that is voting for a townie.

 

Vote: BeeBs

Mod: Can we please have the vote count on top?

Angel Cruz dela Sant: Leaning to clean just because he's made no attempt to defend himself. A Mafia member would take care to deflect any suspicion cast upon him, not let it sit and fester.

 

I disagree with you.

The mafia could also ignore suspicions cast upon them

if they know no one will also join in their suspicion.

Sometimes people make mistakes while reacting which

makes them more suspicious.

 

Vote: Angel Cruz dela Sant

 

Personally I find Angel's lack of substantial post and his lack of

reaction towards d3mon's vote alarming.

Mod: Can we please have the vote count on top?

 

Yep, I have been forgetting to do this. Sorry!

Sorry about the delay. Between RL and Old World Blues (I'm sure ccabal can tell you all about it given his avatar) I simply didn't have time to make an intelligent post. Speaking of ccabal...

 

So, Tracker. What do you think of my suspicion on you?

 

I think it is a fair point. RP is a way to say your thoughts 'in character', and if anyone were to question me on it I could just say, "No, that was in character, here is what I really meant..." Now I wouldn't do such a thing as I stick by what I have said, but as I encourage you to question everything every person says (including myself) I won't expect you to believe me. So yes, my RP could be construed as suspicious behavior. While this point's validity varies from forum to forum, since it seems RP is scarce here I'll acquiesce and only post it once a day until I die to prevent any more misgivings about it. I don't expect the questions to stop, but what can you do. I'm not going to drop it entirely; I'd rather die with a story than live without one.

 

As an aside though, if myself and BeeBs were Mafia why would we both RP? If one of us was revealed to be a Mafia member, people would suddenly turn to the other and say 'Huh. Well, you both RPed, so I guess you're a Mafia member. Time to die." Now as you saw before I'm comfortably sure that BeeBs is not a Mafia member, so if he does turn out to be one then he had me completely fooled. But for both of us to indulge in a highly visible quirk that ties us to each other there would have to be the assumption that neither of us would mind this. Hence one can surmise that neither of us mind being in the spotlight or tied to each other. Mafia members hate being in the spotlight, so it would just be a shot in the foot to expose oneself in such a practice.

 

Preston: I'm aware of your concerns, and I will not try to dispel them; they are valid points that can only be dispelled through actions and time. As I alluded to in my first post, I make no effort to seem without fault in these games, as it makes the game more interesting and prevents me from automatically being a night target. I welcome your suspicion and hope you continue to keep a close eye on me. All I ask in return is that you don't become so focused upon me that you lose track of everyone else. And to answer your point as to who is more townie, I would just like to say that two Mafia members would not indulge in this sort of behavior publicly and risk both of them getting killed. So either both KevinH and myself are townies or only one of us is a Mafia member. I'm leaning toward the latter, but the former is indeed possible.

I find the RP very entertaining but wouldn't consider it eith pro-town or pro-scum.

 

I try to play the same whether I'm townie or not; I see no reason why an RP'r couldn't do the same.

Just a note angel will be away until the 2nd of august

 

Honestly last couple of days i have been straightening out messes and stared at this but didn't have time to respond

 

First of all to tracker fine you want more here it is

 

I knew CD was a townie well before he got killed. And be meaning knew was not guessing like what is going on here but for fact knew. Lets see if you can pick that up without me spelling it out.

 

On the issue of rping i see no issue with it it just tells a different story and is easier imo to slip have told truths and other such things in them and keep it going without arousing much suspision

 

@Preston mostly regarding the cop I think its like this we are hoping for the best and preparing for the worst if you get the feeling. Meaning it would be nice to see one come up 1 shot or not but were not holding our hopes to see one.

 

I will post later just let me clear some other stuff up first

Just a note angel will be away until the 2nd of august

 

Then I request some replace him immediately

Honestly Nerau that simply makes you all the more suspicions to me. I can't see a valid reason for outing yourself to claim a dead townie is clean. However, what's done is done. If you don't die tonight (and someone else dies instead), you're most certainly one of the Mafia members.

Preston: I'm aware of your concerns, and I will not try to dispel them; they are valid points that can only be dispelled through actions and time. As I alluded to in my first post, I make no effort to seem without fault in these games, as it makes the game more interesting and prevents me from automatically being a night target. I welcome your suspicion and hope you continue to keep a close eye on me. All I ask in return is that you don't become so focused upon me that you lose track of everyone else. And to answer your point as to who is more townie, I would just like to say that two Mafia members would not indulge in this sort of behavior publicly and risk both of them getting killed. So either both KevinH and myself are townies or only one of us is a Mafia member. I'm leaning toward the latter, but the former is indeed possible.

There are distancing actions the same as there are distancing votes... but we could go in circles about this and be no closer to the truth. Yes I'll keep an eye on you, since prior to Nerau's claim your attack was one of the most notable things Ive seen thus far today.

 

First of all to tracker fine you want more here it is

 

I knew CD was a townie well before he got killed. And be meaning knew was not guessing like what is going on here but for fact knew. Lets see if you can pick that up without me spelling it out.

 

@Preston mostly regarding the cop I think its like this we are hoping for the best and preparing for the worst if you get the feeling. Meaning it would be nice to see one come up 1 shot or not but were not holding our hopes to see one.

This whole post is very interesting on several levels. Let's break this down to make sure I'm not making a mistake here...

1) Claiming knowledge of CD's alignment before he was killed on night 1.

1a) Given that CD had no role (no friendly neighbor or innocent child), that means nerau has/had a role, and hence is now CLAIMING a role. I fail to see any rationale for this other than pursuing an attack on tracker.

1b) If this claim is saying Nerau knew about CD BEFORE the day ended... that implies some kind of a day-role, unless Nerau means that he learned about CD during night 1 when CD was killed.

1c) A day-role with investigation powers is a... very interesting concept, to say the least.

2) In the same post where Nerau is saying he had knowledge of CD's towniness, he is also talking about us not knowing if we have a cop in this game or not - which implies he is not claiming AS a cop.

2a) What alternative methods are there for Nerau to have gained this information without it being either CD's role or Nerau as something he would call a 'cop'?

 

While I just posted above that I'm suspicious of Tracker, I cant argue the point that this really looks like you're doing a roleclaim Nerau. If you are, this raises a lot of questions and puts the onus on you to prove yourself real in SOME form. If you're not, then you'll need to greatly clarify your post because it currently reads like youre claiming some kind of a day investigator-but-not-cop... which is frankly insane. More detail/justification needed please.

 

Then I request some replace him immediately

Do we still HAVE replacements? I was called in as a replacement, so we're already scraping the bottom of that particular barrel. At least Angel has an intended return date, and perhaps he'll be able to connect sometime before then to at least post briefly.

 

-Preston

Well, I was leaning towards Angel being Mafia before he had to leave, but I am very interested to have Nerau explain his comments!

This whole post is very interesting on several levels. Let's break this down to make sure I'm not making a mistake here...

1) Claiming knowledge of CD's alignment before he was killed on night 1.

1a) Given that CD had no role (no friendly neighbor or innocent child), that means nerau has/had a role, and hence is now CLAIMING a role. I fail to see any rationale for this other than pursuing an attack on tracker.

1b) If this claim is saying Nerau knew about CD BEFORE the day ended... that implies some kind of a day-role, unless Nerau means that he learned about CD during night 1 when CD was killed.

1c) A day-role with investigation powers is a... very interesting concept, to say the least.

2) In the same post where Nerau is saying he had knowledge of CD's towniness, he is also talking about us not knowing if we have a cop in this game or not - which implies he is not claiming AS a cop.

2a) What alternative methods are there for Nerau to have gained this information without it being either CD's role or Nerau as something he would call a 'cop'?

 

How about a manager role who knows who the customers are.

Anyway I think we need to hear more from Nerau as he will

probably be higher in the mafia's target list now if he indeed

knows something we don't